| The Brilliant Welsh NHS 18:28 - Jan 6 with 8695 views | johnlangy |
There's a perfectly good reason for the title. I know there are plenty of problems with the NHS in Wales. BUT. All I see are criticisms. So i'll give my opinion.
We have a brilliant GP practice. The 8 o'clock race for an appointment is a pain but when we get through we always get an appointment whether over the phone or in person.
We have a brilliant NHS dentist. If it's not an urgent problem then we have to wait. But if it's urgent we get an apptointment very quickly.
I've had a foot problem for a few years now so around November 22 I put in for treatment. Since then i've had two appointments in Central clinic with a podiatrist and then a few weeks ago an appointment in PT/Baglan hospital with a consultant who was brilliant. I'm now on the waiting list for a minor op. She told me I will get the op within the next 12 months. No problem as it's not exactly life or death.
She said i'd get it done within 12 months because i'd already been on the waiting list for 12 months. So being on the waiting list doesn't mean that you're not getting treated, it means the treatment isn't completed. I hadn't realised that.
My wife had a problem recently when we had to go to A&E at Morriston. It was busy but she was seen within about 40 minutes, had an ECG, back out, waited for another ten minutes or so at which point the doctor came out into A and E and spent five minutes or so speaking to her before saying she could go. Brilliant service.
I could give other examples. But my main point is that we are quick to criticise when things go wrong but don't give praise when things go right.
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 16:56 - Jan 10 with 1621 views | controversial_jack |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 13:08 - Jan 10 by JACKMANANDBOY |
No never worked in a hospital. |
Ina private company i meant, as the waste with these big corps is huge | | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 17:02 - Jan 10 with 1622 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 16:56 - Jan 10 by controversial_jack |
Ina private company i meant, as the waste with these big corps is huge |
Private heath companies, especially the not for profits ones, are very efficient and well run. Unlike the NHS which has 2 non medical employees per doctor/ nurse.
In private health companies the ratio is 2 medical staff to 1 non medical staff.
It is often why they can do a lot of operations cheaper than the NHS can. It why the Swansea NHS trusts sends patients to the sancta Maria hospital in Swansea. | |
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 18:29 - Jan 10 with 1577 views | controversial_jack |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 17:02 - Jan 10 by felixstowe_jack |
Private heath companies, especially the not for profits ones, are very efficient and well run. Unlike the NHS which has 2 non medical employees per doctor/ nurse.
In private health companies the ratio is 2 medical staff to 1 non medical staff.
It is often why they can do a lot of operations cheaper than the NHS can. It why the Swansea NHS trusts sends patients to the sancta Maria hospital in Swansea. |
Nope, the NHS has a 2% management ratio. No private company can match that. The NHS often has to deal with botched operations done by private clinics who won't accept liability. | | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 18:33 - Jan 10 with 1580 views | Wingstandwood |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 17:02 - Jan 10 by felixstowe_jack |
Private heath companies, especially the not for profits ones, are very efficient and well run. Unlike the NHS which has 2 non medical employees per doctor/ nurse.
In private health companies the ratio is 2 medical staff to 1 non medical staff.
It is often why they can do a lot of operations cheaper than the NHS can. It why the Swansea NHS trusts sends patients to the sancta Maria hospital in Swansea. |
May I also add that Sancta Maria Hospital also provides a private G.P service. The demand and requirement is there, because desperate and distressed people often spend days trying (and failing!) to get through 'triage' lines that are well known to close within five minutes of two hour allocated operational time!
And that is a problem that seriously ill patients can face from time to time. In fact a very close relative of mine (ran an NHS clinic) had to tend to extremely distressed patients who just could not get through their local G.P surgery line so were forced to phone their hospital specialty/clinical team instead. And that very close relative of mine has just as one example even had to drop off a nebuliser on the way home from work for an extremely distressed patient.
"The Brilliant Welsh NHS".....??????????????????????????????????????????????? [Post edited 10 Jan 20:34]
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 19:45 - Jan 10 with 1531 views | Wingstandwood |
For informative purposes.
We have even reached a stage where ambulance 'rationing' is normal.
*Typical protocol*
Many people (usually neighbours) often wonder why an empty ambulance tends to spend what seems like an absolute eternity outside a property whilst on an emergency call out, but sometimes departs leaving the patient still inside a property. And that is despite the fact that the patient should be leaving on that ambulance anyhow.
That is because inside the house a person is often being medically and administratively appraised by a paramedic to see whether that particular ambulance is required for an immediate/emergency patient rush to hospital.
It’s a bit like being triaged….. But a lot more rigorous and physically involving e.g. ECG, blood pressure test, blood sugar test etc, along with an in-depth discussion/assessment of patient circumstances/reason for call out, current symptoms, current/previous medical history and patient’s medication regime e.g. is the patient on Warfarin etc? There is a lot of form filling and a lot of time involved.
And if a patient is deemed capable enough (albeit still in distress, injured, suffering and in discomfort) to get to A+E by car (walking wounded style) with family members being physically capable to assist? The paramedics 'MAY' then ask if it’s possible for the patient’s family to do just that.
And if the patient is not capable of getting in and out of tight car space, or maybe uses or requires a wheelchair, but can manage to get into one, or walk assisted with a walking frame? Then travel to A+E by using an alternative non-emergency transport ambulance 'MAY' be suggested and arranged by on-scene paramedics also. Even The British Red Cross charity assists with that type of transportation to help Swansea University Health Board.
You see NHS paramedics do all this to lessen the amount of ambulances having to (bed shortages) wait outside A+E and to make emergency response times quicker, because it can often mean the stark difference between an ambulance turning up for a life saving emergency call or not! Dire, ain't it? | |
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 19:52 - Jan 10 with 1522 views | Gwyn737 |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 11:09 - Jan 10 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Here's an example that shows how the NHS is carrying huge amounts of waste in just two categories of waste.
Inventory - Operating theatres lying idle for large parts of the week.
Misused Resources - Surgeons doing non surgical work.
Basic efficiency issues that a commercial organisation would not tolerate. |
I think you and CJ are basically coming from the same place.
There is certainly waste in the system and (not saying there aren’t poor managers) there is a massive discrepancy between % of managers in the NHS and private companies.
This contributes to the problems you identified. Problem is when you need medical attention you want a medical professional. Spending money on administrators and managers drives people nuts, bur you need them to make everything run. | | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 20:08 - Jan 10 with 1506 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 19:52 - Jan 10 by Gwyn737 |
I think you and CJ are basically coming from the same place.
There is certainly waste in the system and (not saying there aren’t poor managers) there is a massive discrepancy between % of managers in the NHS and private companies.
This contributes to the problems you identified. Problem is when you need medical attention you want a medical professional. Spending money on administrators and managers drives people nuts, bur you need them to make everything run. |
You also need a lot f non medical staff to keep a big hospital going. Without the cleaners, porters, estates staff, admind staff and non emergency ambulance staff the whole thing would grind to a halt. | | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 20:28 - Jan 10 with 1494 views | majorraglan |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 11:09 - Jan 10 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Here's an example that shows how the NHS is carrying huge amounts of waste in just two categories of waste.
Inventory - Operating theatres lying idle for large parts of the week.
Misused Resources - Surgeons doing non surgical work.
Basic efficiency issues that a commercial organisation would not tolerate. |
I dare say some of the issues with operating theatres laying idle is that there is bed blocking further up the chain, if there are no recovery beds and post operation beds available then they can’t operate on patients. If surgeons can’t operate because of logistical issues such as the unavailability of beds, it makes sense for them to do other work as opposed to doing nothing. They can still meet and assess patients.
If we didn’t have the bed blocking etc, then none of this would happen. | | | |
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 20:30 - Jan 10 with 1488 views | majorraglan |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 17:02 - Jan 10 by felixstowe_jack |
Private heath companies, especially the not for profits ones, are very efficient and well run. Unlike the NHS which has 2 non medical employees per doctor/ nurse.
In private health companies the ratio is 2 medical staff to 1 non medical staff.
It is often why they can do a lot of operations cheaper than the NHS can. It why the Swansea NHS trusts sends patients to the sancta Maria hospital in Swansea. |
Proof please of the 2 non medical employees to every nurse/ doctor please. | | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 16:25 - Jan 11 with 1411 views | Wingstandwood |
Here is a realtime live webpage, that'll tell you approx how many patients are currently waiting to be seen at your local Welsh A+E or MIU. And if you do happen to go into A+E ? Be mindful of numbers that are waiting in ambulance queues outside.
So It's not only those that you see within the seated internal A+E waiting area that are requiring the attention of medical staff.
The "Typical time in dept" information is tbh extremely misleading if numerous/sequential medical procedures are required e.g. blood tests and scans for an head injury etc. Someone presenting ectopic heartbeat symptoms for example can wait 18+ hours. In fact It is not in any way an extraordinary occurrence for a paitent to wait 24hours.
That is why It's very important for a patient to take food/refreshments for a visit to Morriston A+E, or to take money for the vending machines situated within.
https://aeinfo.nhs.wales/ [Post edited 11 Jan 17:48]
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 19:18 - Jan 25 with 1261 views | Wingstandwood |
I predicted this thing happening on this very forum a few weeks back! Welsh news tonight!
QUOTE:" Two of the town's three surgeries lost so many doctors, the practices came under the direct management of the health board, rather than being stand-alone.
Now doctors at Hwb Iechyd Cybi are warning that patients may once again be left without enough GPs."
Here is the future for Wales, because deprived economic backwaters with 1960's infrastructure and 20mph travelling times are neither going to attract or retain enough NHS proffesionas now are they?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68091801 [Post edited 25 Jan 19:52]
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 09:44 - Jan 26 with 1159 views | AnotherJohn |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 20:30 - Jan 10 by majorraglan |
Proof please of the 2 non medical employees to every nurse/ doctor please. |
One difficulty of comparing the NHS with the UK private sector, is that most of the private hospitals are set up to complement the NHS rather than provide a separate parallel system. They do not offer the full range of procedures and diagnostic technologies. At a hospital like the Sancta Maria, almost all the doctors are independent contractors working there on a part-time basis and spend most of their week working for the NHS. Therefore I don't think you will get a ratio that means much. | | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 10:19 - Jan 27 with 1105 views | Gwyn737 |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 09:44 - Jan 26 by AnotherJohn |
One difficulty of comparing the NHS with the UK private sector, is that most of the private hospitals are set up to complement the NHS rather than provide a separate parallel system. They do not offer the full range of procedures and diagnostic technologies. At a hospital like the Sancta Maria, almost all the doctors are independent contractors working there on a part-time basis and spend most of their week working for the NHS. Therefore I don't think you will get a ratio that means much. |
Really good point.
It daft comparing the two when what’s required of them is so different. If you had a car accident in Swansea it won’t be Sancta Maria sending the ambulance and paramedics to your aid.
Some will just bend the figures to slag off the public sector.
The have been similar agreements this week with free market fans slagging off the Post Office for being uncompetitive compared to courier business. Completely ignoring the fact that the PO has universal service to contend with. | | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 12:39 - Jan 27 with 1085 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 10:19 - Jan 27 by Gwyn737 |
Really good point.
It daft comparing the two when what’s required of them is so different. If you had a car accident in Swansea it won’t be Sancta Maria sending the ambulance and paramedics to your aid.
Some will just bend the figures to slag off the public sector.
The have been similar agreements this week with free market fans slagging off the Post Office for being uncompetitive compared to courier business. Completely ignoring the fact that the PO has universal service to contend with. |
Speaking as an ex postie, the universal service was struggling when I left 12 years ago. The volume of letters had fallen a lot by then and it is even worse now. You can go across Europe and would you find a universal service elsewhere? Certainly Spain has had a 3 day delivery servoce for many years. It has to happen, the RM must be allowed to cut Saturday letter deliveries, the only part of the business that was (and I believe still is) growing is the parcels.
The NHS is in the opposite position, it has much more work than it can cope with and has trouble recruiting and retaining staff. Ironically the private sector doesn't help because so many NHS staff leave to go and work there for better hours and better pay. Then the NHS ends up taking on lost of agency staff who frequently won't do the full workload but get paid more with the agency creaming off a few quid an hour on top.
It's almost as if the powers that be want the NHS to collapse so it can be privatised.... | | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 14:46 - Jan 27 with 1073 views | Gwyn737 |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 12:39 - Jan 27 by SullutaCreturned |
Speaking as an ex postie, the universal service was struggling when I left 12 years ago. The volume of letters had fallen a lot by then and it is even worse now. You can go across Europe and would you find a universal service elsewhere? Certainly Spain has had a 3 day delivery servoce for many years. It has to happen, the RM must be allowed to cut Saturday letter deliveries, the only part of the business that was (and I believe still is) growing is the parcels.
The NHS is in the opposite position, it has much more work than it can cope with and has trouble recruiting and retaining staff. Ironically the private sector doesn't help because so many NHS staff leave to go and work there for better hours and better pay. Then the NHS ends up taking on lost of agency staff who frequently won't do the full workload but get paid more with the agency creaming off a few quid an hour on top.
It's almost as if the powers that be want the NHS to collapse so it can be privatised.... |
Completely agree over staffing.
My point with the comparison is people comparing public services who offer a universal service to private sector companies who can specialise and streamline the buisness. | | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 14:59 - Jan 27 with 1068 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 14:46 - Jan 27 by Gwyn737 |
Completely agree over staffing.
My point with the comparison is people comparing public services who offer a universal service to private sector companies who can specialise and streamline the buisness. |
Oh yes I take your point there. It's a lot easier to be profitable when you only offer restricted services, the ones that are easier and cheaper to supply such as eye operations where you go in to a private hospital and are home the same day.
The more expensive, time consuming, staff intensive treatements and operations get left for the NHS.
Spa medica for example, they are opening up eye hospitals everywhere, you are in for less than 24 hours. They are spanking new, clean and efficient but I bet the NHS pays a hefty price for every referral. I bet lots of the medical staff are ex NHS too. The surgeons are probably still NHS just doing private work, possibly in NHS time. | | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 19:33 - Feb 6 with 940 views | Wingstandwood |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 19:45 - Jan 10 by Wingstandwood |
For informative purposes.
We have even reached a stage where ambulance 'rationing' is normal.
*Typical protocol*
Many people (usually neighbours) often wonder why an empty ambulance tends to spend what seems like an absolute eternity outside a property whilst on an emergency call out, but sometimes departs leaving the patient still inside a property. And that is despite the fact that the patient should be leaving on that ambulance anyhow.
That is because inside the house a person is often being medically and administratively appraised by a paramedic to see whether that particular ambulance is required for an immediate/emergency patient rush to hospital.
It’s a bit like being triaged….. But a lot more rigorous and physically involving e.g. ECG, blood pressure test, blood sugar test etc, along with an in-depth discussion/assessment of patient circumstances/reason for call out, current symptoms, current/previous medical history and patient’s medication regime e.g. is the patient on Warfarin etc? There is a lot of form filling and a lot of time involved.
And if a patient is deemed capable enough (albeit still in distress, injured, suffering and in discomfort) to get to A+E by car (walking wounded style) with family members being physically capable to assist? The paramedics 'MAY' then ask if it’s possible for the patient’s family to do just that.
And if the patient is not capable of getting in and out of tight car space, or maybe uses or requires a wheelchair, but can manage to get into one, or walk assisted with a walking frame? Then travel to A+E by using an alternative non-emergency transport ambulance 'MAY' be suggested and arranged by on-scene paramedics also. Even The British Red Cross charity assists with that type of transportation to help Swansea University Health Board.
You see NHS paramedics do all this to lessen the amount of ambulances having to (bed shortages) wait outside A+E and to make emergency response times quicker, because it can often mean the stark difference between an ambulance turning up for a life saving emergency call or not! Dire, ain't it? |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68211110 | |
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 21:33 - Mar 21 with 607 views | Boundy |
36 new AMs in cardiff will sort it out | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 21:53 - Mar 21 with 606 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 20:30 - Jan 10 by majorraglan |
Proof please of the 2 non medical employees to every nurse/ doctor please. |
NHS staff 1.7 million
Doctors 132,000
Nurse and midwives 305,000
Other staff 1,263,000 | |
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 21:55 - Mar 21 with 603 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 14:59 - Jan 27 by SullutaCreturned |
Oh yes I take your point there. It's a lot easier to be profitable when you only offer restricted services, the ones that are easier and cheaper to supply such as eye operations where you go in to a private hospital and are home the same day.
The more expensive, time consuming, staff intensive treatements and operations get left for the NHS.
Spa medica for example, they are opening up eye hospitals everywhere, you are in for less than 24 hours. They are spanking new, clean and efficient but I bet the NHS pays a hefty price for every referral. I bet lots of the medical staff are ex NHS too. The surgeons are probably still NHS just doing private work, possibly in NHS time. |
Not sure I would call hip and knee replacement operations as simple and easy to do. | |
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 06:22 - Mar 22 with 564 views | Whiterockin |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 21:53 - Mar 21 by felixstowe_jack |
NHS staff 1.7 million
Doctors 132,000
Nurse and midwives 305,000
Other staff 1,263,000 |
In the other staff are you including porters, cleaners, receptionists ect which are essential to keep A&E and wards open. |  | | |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 07:24 - Mar 22 with 550 views | Dr_Winston |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 06:22 - Mar 22 by Whiterockin |
In the other staff are you including porters, cleaners, receptionists ect which are essential to keep A&E and wards open. |
Yeah. There is a tendency to paint those other staff as wasters just hanging around as if they are unnecessary. Like surgeons should be fixing the boilers if they break down in between operations rather than have "non medical" employees.
Mind you, my dad did agency work in maintenance at Morriston Hospital for a period and reckoned they could probably have been fine with 2/3 of the staff that they had at the time. He was taking a couple of hours to do jobs that were scheduled to last all day by management. Used to spend his afternoons playing cards.
This is the problem with the NHS as I see it from the standpoint of someone who has witnessed at close hand for decades how the public sector is managed. Massive inefficiencies everywhere. Too many staff in some areas, not enough in others. Eye wateringly expensive contracts for outside providers. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 09:26 - Mar 22 with 524 views | controversial_jack |
| The Brilliant Welsh NHS on 21:53 - Mar 21 by felixstowe_jack |
NHS staff 1.7 million
Doctors 132,000
Nurse and midwives 305,000
Other staff 1,263,000 |
It would be the same in the military or police. There's far more back room staff employed to keep the few frontline personnel in active service.It's just how these establishments work
I believe the NHS also has well below the average in management to employee ratio that you would find in any private corporation. | | | |
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