| Realistic scenario for change... 09:46 - Apr 8 with 7766 views | kropotkin41 |
There's a lot of talk about change, a reset maybe, but are there any realistic scenarios in which we have a change of ownership and that doesn't just mean go straight to AFC QPR, do not pass go, do not collect £..... etc?
I only wonder this because isn't one of the deep seated obstacles to QPR's progress that the borough doesn't like the owners? Also, what, at this stage are the owners getting out of this? It can't be fun can it? |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 09:48 - Apr 8 with 5230 views | loftboy |
All our debt is to the owners, the cynical side of me thinks they are using us for the property’s that can be built on Loftus road.. |  |
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 09:53 - Apr 8 with 5197 views | kropotkin41 |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 09:48 - Apr 8 by loftboy |
All our debt is to the owners, the cynical side of me thinks they are using us for the property’s that can be built on Loftus road.. |
Yeah, that might not be so much cynicism as realism.... | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:00 - Apr 8 with 5162 views | Blue_Castello |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 09:53 - Apr 8 by kropotkin41 |
Yeah, that might not be so much cynicism as realism.... |
Nope I don't get that at all, the owners have pumped about £30 million into the training ground, I've bought into the Bond like hundreds of others, the owners want our club to be successful.
Now you can say more fool me for buying into the Bond, fair enough, the Bond is only any good whilst we have rich owners backing it, it's purely an Investment vehicle. As for the chances of finding new owners that's a pipe dream as explained over and again by the state of the clubs Finances, highlighted by Simon D. |  | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:13 - Apr 8 with 5066 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
The board could start by voluntarily bringing democratically elected people in to represent the fan base, but it’s not in their nature as business owners to do that because I suspect democracy is the enemy of entrepreneurship in their view.
It won’t guarantee success but at least we have some control over the levers of the club and creates an avenue for change if we want it. It would dampen anger too because the buck would stop with us as fans as well as the owners.
At the moment we are just passive onlookers.
The LSA and other supporter groups should start to organise and grow though. How many of us can say we are active members of a fan group despite QPR being one of the most previous elements of our lives?
We join Unions and Associations and even political parties to protect every other aspect of our lives. Why aren’t we doing the same with our football clubs like they do in Germany or even Scotland? [Post edited 8 Apr 2023 10:19]
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:16 - Apr 8 with 5035 views | kropotkin41 |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:00 - Apr 8 by Blue_Castello |
Nope I don't get that at all, the owners have pumped about £30 million into the training ground, I've bought into the Bond like hundreds of others, the owners want our club to be successful.
Now you can say more fool me for buying into the Bond, fair enough, the Bond is only any good whilst we have rich owners backing it, it's purely an Investment vehicle. As for the chances of finding new owners that's a pipe dream as explained over and again by the state of the clubs Finances, highlighted by Simon D. |
Fair play. I suppose I'd like to get a sense of where the problem really is, and how that might be shifted. | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:17 - Apr 8 with 5009 views | kropotkin41 |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:13 - Apr 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
The board could start by voluntarily bringing democratically elected people in to represent the fan base, but it’s not in their nature as business owners to do that because I suspect democracy is the enemy of entrepreneurship in their view.
It won’t guarantee success but at least we have some control over the levers of the club and creates an avenue for change if we want it. It would dampen anger too because the buck would stop with us as fans as well as the owners.
At the moment we are just passive onlookers.
The LSA and other supporter groups should start to organise and grow though. How many of us can say we are active members of a fan group despite QPR being one of the most previous elements of our lives?
We join Unions and Associations and even political parties to protect every other aspect of our lives. Why aren’t we doing the same with our football clubs like they do in Germany or even Scotland? [Post edited 8 Apr 2023 10:19]
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Perhaps this season could be the catalyst? | |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:17 - Apr 8 with 4986 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:17 - Apr 8 by kropotkin41 |
Perhaps this season could be the catalyst? |
Let’s hope so. | | | |
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:23 - Apr 8 with 4935 views | JamesB1979 |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:13 - Apr 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
The board could start by voluntarily bringing democratically elected people in to represent the fan base, but it’s not in their nature as business owners to do that because I suspect democracy is the enemy of entrepreneurship in their view.
It won’t guarantee success but at least we have some control over the levers of the club and creates an avenue for change if we want it. It would dampen anger too because the buck would stop with us as fans as well as the owners.
At the moment we are just passive onlookers.
The LSA and other supporter groups should start to organise and grow though. How many of us can say we are active members of a fan group despite QPR being one of the most previous elements of our lives?
We join Unions and Associations and even political parties to protect every other aspect of our lives. Why aren’t we doing the same with our football clubs like they do in Germany or even Scotland? [Post edited 8 Apr 2023 10:19]
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I like that idea but once elected how does the fans representative decide what to do? He/she has to take opinion from fanbase (somehow?) or is just elected to make their own decisions? | | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:26 - Apr 8 with 4880 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:23 - Apr 8 by JamesB1979 |
I like that idea but once elected how does the fans representative decide what to do? He/she has to take opinion from fanbase (somehow?) or is just elected to make their own decisions? |
Like any other elected body, they would present their ideas, views, and a proposed strategy. That could come as a manifesto, or regular consultations, or direct democracy, or whatever. | | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:35 - Apr 8 with 4826 views | ted_hendrix |
I was In the LSA for a few Years and then lost Interest, still got me LSA badge somewhere.
I'm still struggling to come to terms with PNE's second goal yesterday. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:39 - Apr 8 with 4787 views | johnhoop |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:35 - Apr 8 by ted_hendrix |
I was In the LSA for a few Years and then lost Interest, still got me LSA badge somewhere.
I'm still struggling to come to terms with PNE's second goal yesterday. |
Having unfortunately missed the Watford game I’m struggling to come to terms with the fact that I haven’t seen us win a game since frigging October. | | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 12:16 - Apr 8 with 4642 views | ed_83 |
I don't think the owners themselves are the issue - they've sunk huge sums into the club and continue to pay the bills every month to keep us afloat. The problem is their total lack of footballing savvy, the continuing struggle to establish a model which works for us, and the failure of various people within the club to drive consistent progress and improvement.
If the owners don't know what they're doing, then they need to be appointing people who do, and holding them to account for delivering consistent, measurable progress against a really clear set of targets. Les, Lee, Amit, Andy Belk, the youth coaches and everyone else seem like lovely people by and large, but all of them have to be measured on results. If they're not, then that lack of standards and accountability infects the rest of the club, and filters down to the results on the pitch.
In terms of specific things which need changing, I can think of five:
1.) We need to get out of Loftus Road. It's a huge financial millstone and we won't be sustainable until we move. The training ground is good but it urgently needs to be followed by a new stadium. The owners have had a decade to deal with this and have fcked it repeatedly. They need to bring someone in who knows what they're doing and can deliver.
2.) Our youth team isn't producing enough Championship quality players, as evidenced by us having to go out and sign Chris Martin because we didn't have anyone capable of covering for 6 weeks while Dykes was out. For us to survive at this level then we need to be bringing through 1 or 2 first-team players a season as an absolute minimum. The new training ground should help, but ultimately if our development coaches can't deliver the players we need, then we need to replace them with people who can.
3.) Player recruitment is increasingly falling short. Too many powderpuff academy boys with no spine, too many of Beale's best mates who then down tools, signing Dillon Barnes then refusing to play him even when every other keeper at the club is injured. It's not all been terrible (selling Eze for £20m then signing Willock for £500k is exactly the sort of thing we should be doing) but we've gone backwards in recent windows. Who's holding the DOF and head of recruitment accountable for this?
4.) Player development and sales. This is a far bigger issue than recruitment for me, and the main area Les is falling short as DOF. Whether we like it or not, we need to be going out and aggressively marketing our players every single transfer window and getting them sold for profit, or the whole thing collapses. I know the market's tough, I know Covid and Brexit have made things even harder, but other clubs manage it. Our failure to sell one or more of Dykes, Willock, Chair, Field, Dickie, Dunne or Dieng when their stock was highest is a massive part of our current problems and will only get worse if and when we breach FFP. Who's responsible for this? Can they change things? If they can't, why are they still here?
5.) Financial management. I generally think Lee has fewer fckups on his report card than Les, but the ballooning wage bill and lack of player development is a financial as well as footballing issue. We're not balancing the books responsibly any more: who's stepping in to correct that, and why haven't they done it sooner? | | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 12:26 - Apr 8 with 4617 views | Hooping_Mad |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:39 - Apr 8 by johnhoop |
Having unfortunately missed the Watford game I’m struggling to come to terms with the fact that I haven’t seen us win a game since frigging October. |
Didn't we score a whole one goal in December and we beat PNE with it? | |
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 12:40 - Apr 8 with 4582 views | mart_Goblin |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 12:16 - Apr 8 by ed_83 |
I don't think the owners themselves are the issue - they've sunk huge sums into the club and continue to pay the bills every month to keep us afloat. The problem is their total lack of footballing savvy, the continuing struggle to establish a model which works for us, and the failure of various people within the club to drive consistent progress and improvement.
If the owners don't know what they're doing, then they need to be appointing people who do, and holding them to account for delivering consistent, measurable progress against a really clear set of targets. Les, Lee, Amit, Andy Belk, the youth coaches and everyone else seem like lovely people by and large, but all of them have to be measured on results. If they're not, then that lack of standards and accountability infects the rest of the club, and filters down to the results on the pitch.
In terms of specific things which need changing, I can think of five:
1.) We need to get out of Loftus Road. It's a huge financial millstone and we won't be sustainable until we move. The training ground is good but it urgently needs to be followed by a new stadium. The owners have had a decade to deal with this and have fcked it repeatedly. They need to bring someone in who knows what they're doing and can deliver.
2.) Our youth team isn't producing enough Championship quality players, as evidenced by us having to go out and sign Chris Martin because we didn't have anyone capable of covering for 6 weeks while Dykes was out. For us to survive at this level then we need to be bringing through 1 or 2 first-team players a season as an absolute minimum. The new training ground should help, but ultimately if our development coaches can't deliver the players we need, then we need to replace them with people who can.
3.) Player recruitment is increasingly falling short. Too many powderpuff academy boys with no spine, too many of Beale's best mates who then down tools, signing Dillon Barnes then refusing to play him even when every other keeper at the club is injured. It's not all been terrible (selling Eze for £20m then signing Willock for £500k is exactly the sort of thing we should be doing) but we've gone backwards in recent windows. Who's holding the DOF and head of recruitment accountable for this?
4.) Player development and sales. This is a far bigger issue than recruitment for me, and the main area Les is falling short as DOF. Whether we like it or not, we need to be going out and aggressively marketing our players every single transfer window and getting them sold for profit, or the whole thing collapses. I know the market's tough, I know Covid and Brexit have made things even harder, but other clubs manage it. Our failure to sell one or more of Dykes, Willock, Chair, Field, Dickie, Dunne or Dieng when their stock was highest is a massive part of our current problems and will only get worse if and when we breach FFP. Who's responsible for this? Can they change things? If they can't, why are they still here?
5.) Financial management. I generally think Lee has fewer fckups on his report card than Les, but the ballooning wage bill and lack of player development is a financial as well as footballing issue. We're not balancing the books responsibly any more: who's stepping in to correct that, and why haven't they done it sooner? |
Sensible points made well.
Whatever happens now, heads must roll.
And we need people in place working for the owners who have a bloody clue about building a football club |  | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 17:50 - Apr 8 with 4312 views | PinnerPaul |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 09:48 - Apr 8 by loftboy |
All our debt is to the owners, the cynical side of me thinks they are using us for the property’s that can be built on Loftus road.. |
Thought they had written off most of the debt.
Simon would know/explain but don't think the club IS in massive debt to the owners. | | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 18:13 - Apr 8 with 4242 views | colinallcars |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:35 - Apr 8 by ted_hendrix |
I was In the LSA for a few Years and then lost Interest, still got me LSA badge somewhere.
I'm still struggling to come to terms with PNE's second goal yesterday. |
It was a cracker, eh ?
I remember yonks ago, a really wet afternoon, two of our defenders - one I think was Zesh went for the ball and slid into each other. The big bloke in front of me leapt to his feet and shouted “oi, Torvill and Dean, sor' it aaahht” |  | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 18:17 - Apr 8 with 4210 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 09:48 - Apr 8 by loftboy |
All our debt is to the owners, the cynical side of me thinks they are using us for the property’s that can be built on Loftus road.. |
That's always been my worry, that and their attempt to couple a new ground move with a huge property deal like Old Oak Common. |  |
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 18:18 - Apr 8 with 4182 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:00 - Apr 8 by Blue_Castello |
Nope I don't get that at all, the owners have pumped about £30 million into the training ground, I've bought into the Bond like hundreds of others, the owners want our club to be successful.
Now you can say more fool me for buying into the Bond, fair enough, the Bond is only any good whilst we have rich owners backing it, it's purely an Investment vehicle. As for the chances of finding new owners that's a pipe dream as explained over and again by the state of the clubs Finances, highlighted by Simon D. |
£30m?
Legal fees on Warren Farm, ground purchase, some of the construction...I didn't realise it was that high a figure for them. | |
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| Realistic scenario for change... on 01:50 - Apr 9 with 3856 views | Damo1962 |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:13 - Apr 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
The board could start by voluntarily bringing democratically elected people in to represent the fan base, but it’s not in their nature as business owners to do that because I suspect democracy is the enemy of entrepreneurship in their view.
It won’t guarantee success but at least we have some control over the levers of the club and creates an avenue for change if we want it. It would dampen anger too because the buck would stop with us as fans as well as the owners.
At the moment we are just passive onlookers.
The LSA and other supporter groups should start to organise and grow though. How many of us can say we are active members of a fan group despite QPR being one of the most previous elements of our lives?
We join Unions and Associations and even political parties to protect every other aspect of our lives. Why aren’t we doing the same with our football clubs like they do in Germany or even Scotland? [Post edited 8 Apr 2023 10:19]
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It's not often I agree with you Baz...but you are spot on here. What was the name of that QPR group that Stacy Dent and her husband were behind? I was a member once upon a time. | | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:02 - Apr 9 with 3742 views | Blue_Castello |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 18:18 - Apr 8 by BrianMcCarthy |
£30m?
Legal fees on Warren Farm, ground purchase, some of the construction...I didn't realise it was that high a figure for them. |
To be honest I'm just repeating a figure I read on here recently as I'm not ITK, however I don't think it's unrealistic, the owners are funding the training ground. The Bond is purely an Investment vehicle, all of the Investors are expecting their money back with Interest, surely the security of that Investment is with the owners and they are liable for the funding of the Final payout. | | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:41 - Apr 9 with 3664 views | terryb |
From Kieran Maquire's headline tweets when the accounts were published.
"QPR owe almost £6m to EFL for covid loans, £10.2m on FFP settlement, £68m on loans and £2.1m on player transfer instalments." | | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:52 - Apr 9 with 3606 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 01:50 - Apr 9 by Damo1962 |
It's not often I agree with you Baz...but you are spot on here. What was the name of that QPR group that Stacy Dent and her husband were behind? I was a member once upon a time. |
I think it was Tracey Stent rather than Stacy Dent :-)
QPR1st. Nice lady.
Must say these fan-led groups are always tough work. For all the well-meaning, they do seem to cause increased in-fighting. As this message board proves, fans rarely agree with each other :-) |  | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 11:05 - Apr 9 with 3556 views | distortR |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:41 - Apr 9 by terryb |
From Kieran Maquire's headline tweets when the accounts were published.
"QPR owe almost £6m to EFL for covid loans, £10.2m on FFP settlement, £68m on loans and £2.1m on player transfer instalments." |
The £68m is probably to board members, who have been converting the loans in to equity. Even taking in our mismanagement, naivety, stupidity, that football is in such a state now that owner's are doing this...............................it's just not sustainable, or fun. | | | |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 11:38 - Apr 9 with 2302 views | davman |
| Realistic scenario for change... on 10:52 - Apr 9 by GaryBannister86 |
I think it was Tracey Stent rather than Stacy Dent :-)
QPR1st. Nice lady.
Must say these fan-led groups are always tough work. For all the well-meaning, they do seem to cause increased in-fighting. As this message board proves, fans rarely agree with each other :-) |
...and that is exactly why Baz's Manage by Committee including the fans group cannot work. The fanbase is so diverse they don't know what they want other than for an owner to wade in and wave a magic wand and make it all better.
That path to redemption is unclear. We have some who will think that the club's gamble over the last couple of seasons was a good idea at the time and there will be those who might think that this is all about ensuring that there is a club for us to support at the end of all this, meaning that the wage bill needs to be cut to remove ALL dependencies from our owners even if that means yo-yo-ing between the Champ and L1 from now forward.
The Twitteratti is all for protest, but they can't even agree what is needed: "Don't go", "Throw a scarf on the pitch on the 82nd minute", "leave at HT", "Stand outside the ground and chant at the owners", "Les out", "Hoos Out", "Board Sell up" (to who I doubt they know or care). On Monday, WBA are protesting and I suspect a large portion of their fan base will get behind it. I do not trust our fanbase to do that; just like Brexit, you leave it up to the "Great British Public" and you'll end up will end up with a mess.
QPR 1st were he hope to try to pull the fans together, but they are all in the clubs pocket according to an ill educated, spiteful, loud minority on Twitter, so there is no hope they will be able to pull us together coherently.
Something does need to change, but I'm not holding my breath that the plan or solution comes from us fans... |  |
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