| Mick Beale 19:18 - Oct 15 with 123210 views | Hayesender |
7/4 2nd favourite for the wolves job  |  |
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| Mick Beale on 18:10 - Oct 20 with 3852 views | dm97 |
| Mick Beale on 15:36 - Oct 20 by DieByYourSide |
Beale's played a PR blinder here I think.
Look at the Quote Tweets of the interview, it's fans from across the board giving it the "loyalty in modern football isn't dead" treatment.
Delighted he's staying, you would hope at least for the season now, as I think 15 games is no time to walk out of a job - also assuming we continue to do well in the league his stock will only rise for rejecting the job.
He'll be on everyone's radars now and probably has carte blanche to leave with everyone's best wishes next time a similar stature job comes up, assuming he'd want it and feels he's finished his business with QPR.
You feel we might have to get promoted for him to be in charge at the start of next season, though. |
Completely agree. If he goes to villa e.g. in two weeks this entire values, club building, man of my word stuff is hot air. End of the season, we go up or he does me thinks |  | | |
| Mick Beale on 18:14 - Oct 20 with 3816 views | nix |
What a lovely lad. My favourite bit was at the end when they show him walking past the Cardiff fans who are obviously giving him a bit of stick and he just smiles and holds up the old 3-0 with his fingers.
Fab that Les, Chris and Mick are all helping him. |  | | |
| Mick Beale on 18:16 - Oct 20 with 3801 views | hubble |
| Mick Beale on 15:07 - Oct 20 by Boston |
Has Mr Chapman resumed his position in the Weld ? |
Yes mate, we were in the Weld before the game, but as you know, for Chappers, the Weld is not enough... |  |
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| Mick Beale on 18:19 - Oct 20 with 3776 views | hubble |
| Mick Beale on 15:20 - Oct 20 by kensalriser |
I'm pretty sure that was either mine or a combined effort. At least the bastardarsecock was definitely mine and I'm not ashamed to say it.
We haven't forgotten you capitulating cowards. |
Hahaha... careful what you reveal about yourself on messageboards TAFKAC! (the artist formerly known as Cheese). | |
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| Mick Beale on 18:22 - Oct 20 with 3757 views | hubble |
What?? I had no idea Sinclair was Irish!! And what a top man he is. The future is looking bright for Rangers today. | |
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| Mick Beale on 19:24 - Oct 20 with 3497 views | LongsufferingR |
| Mick Beale on 18:14 - Oct 20 by nix |
What a lovely lad. My favourite bit was at the end when they show him walking past the Cardiff fans who are obviously giving him a bit of stick and he just smiles and holds up the old 3-0 with his fingers.
Fab that Les, Chris and Mick are all helping him. |
It was only 2-0 at the time so maybe he's also a clairvoyant! |  | | |
| Mick Beale on 19:33 - Oct 20 with 3428 views | Lblock |
Wrong thread [Post edited 20 Oct 2022 19:34]
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| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Mick Beale on 20:00 - Oct 20 with 3342 views | DavieQPR |
| Mick Beale on 18:22 - Oct 20 by hubble |
What?? I had no idea Sinclair was Irish!! And what a top man he is. The future is looking bright for Rangers today. |
Got a broad Irish accent and wears glasses off the pitch. |  | | |
| Mick Beale on 20:19 - Oct 20 with 3269 views | nix |
| Mick Beale on 19:24 - Oct 20 by LongsufferingR |
It was only 2-0 at the time so maybe he's also a clairvoyant! |
Probs just I can't count! | | | |
| Mick Beale on 20:51 - Oct 20 with 3161 views | Greenbay |
| Mick Beale on 16:31 - Oct 20 by PinnerPaul |
How could he say no, before he was asked the question? |
Hello Pinner
You're quite right that the official approach/question didn't happen till this Thursday morning.
But my point is that he knew there were rumours spilling around at least 48 hours before.
So It is a simple thing to say well before that official approach - 'whatever these rumours are and nothing official yet - I'm staying at QPR' - which is what he finally did.
He could have saved everybody a lot of anguish.
If there are rumours spilling around - you squash it - if that's what you want.
But he clearly - and fair enough to him - he wanted to think about it.
So the rumours persisted until this Thursday's announcement.
Let's be clear I'm very much a Beale fan.
As said many times I'm a disciple - certainly by the way he has made us a much better team and as he says more to come.
I like him too - the way he speaks about football, the way he speaks about the players.
So let's move on and upwards.
More than delighted - like most of us - that he's going to stay as I'm sure we both agree. |  | | |
| Mick Beale on 22:09 - Oct 20 with 3019 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Mick Beale on 16:50 - Oct 20 by Tonto |
if, as is to be believed, there is a release clause in his contract, and Wolves were willing to meet that valuation, then Lee and Les would HASVE to allow Wolves to speak to him. Do you not get that?
or are you using the fact there is even a release clause in his contract at all as a reason to continue your rather biased and boring diatribe against them? in which case think about it - think hard - is having a 7 figure release clause in the contract (again as has been stated in the media) for a manager who hadnt managed a single game prior to coming here actually good thing? how much do clubs usually get when they lose their manager to a poaching? no - of course not they are still incompetent arent they. |
As far as I'm aware, the Telegraph has reported/quantified such a clause, but I don't know that it's there and nor do you, nor whether Wolves officially met it. If it is there, and there is, on top, no sliding scale with it in terms of dates, it was a stupid insertion and should be re-negotiated if Beale wants the club's support, transfer funds etc., in my opinion. |  |
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| Mick Beale on 22:13 - Oct 20 with 2979 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Mick Beale on 15:30 - Oct 20 by PinnerPaul |
As I said to someone else, not sure how you make him the only employee in England not allowed to leave his job!
Also can we just not enjoy the moment without picking a PL club every day who MIGHT want him as manager? |
Where did I say that? Try and improve your reading skills in respect of my writing ones.
I've mainly been talking about my feelings as a fan with how this has played out, and how the club has approached Beale's contract. Presumably, you'd agree that being a fan still allows me that much at least.
PS As one or two others have pointed out, football isn't just a 'job', but good luck with your dreary industrial realism! | |
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| Mick Beale on 17:24 - Oct 21 with 2760 views | SimplyNico |
| Mick Beale on 22:09 - Oct 20 by stainrods_elbow |
As far as I'm aware, the Telegraph has reported/quantified such a clause, but I don't know that it's there and nor do you, nor whether Wolves officially met it. If it is there, and there is, on top, no sliding scale with it in terms of dates, it was a stupid insertion and should be re-negotiated if Beale wants the club's support, transfer funds etc., in my opinion. |
Chris, I said I would say something about this, so here goes.
In relation to the suggestion that the release clause should be renegotiated, presumably to some much higher figure, this is actually quite difficult to do.
Conceptually, release clauses have something of a tightrope to walk. On one side, there is the fact that they potentially act in restraint of trade. The general principle with restraints of trade is that they are void because they are contrary to public policy, which is to promote free trade; this is unless the restraint is reasonable.
On the other side of the tightrope, if it is being argued that the restraint (release clause) is some sort of liquidated damages clause, it has to be not out of proportion to the damage suffered in relation to the employment; if it is out of proportion, it will be a penalty, and penalties get struck out of contracts too. Again, liquidated damages have to be reasonable.
Seeking to argue that but for losing manager X or Y, a club has lost the chance to be promoted is difficult in what is recognised to be one of the most competitive leagues in Europe where anyone can beat anyone; the lost chance exists, but it is difficult to prove. Trying to prove, for example, at this stage in the season, that promotion is nailed on but for the loss of the manager is effectively hopeless - see Robith's comments on predicting outcomes in his analysis.
It also can't be linked to loss of a chance to prize money for a particular place in the league, because this isn't awarded in the Champ.
Whilst the release fee has to be reasonable and proportionate, the question then is reasonable and proportionate to what? The answer is probably the value of MB's contract, which is the benchmark cost of recruiting a replacement.
The release fee is being touted as £1.2m. A rough and ready view is that this is two years' salary cost for MB (which is not out of proportion to the value of Champ manager contracts), or our reputed level of wages - managers generally earn less than players.
Accordingly, for anyone trying to suggest that we should be asking for a £5m or £10m release, this is simply unworkable.
In any event, I think the bigger issue is how Wolves knew there was a release clause,. There isn't a central registry of manager contracts that you can go and check, and manager contracts in the Champ are not standard form. Accordingly, someone has provided that figure to Wolves (and the Telegraph). | | | |
| Mick Beale on 17:51 - Oct 21 with 2662 views | Faurlinho |
Very good post Nick - all makes sense, though I guarantee we’ll hear the same moans next time round. Presumably they can up his salary (assuming he’d sign) and include an increased but proportionate release fee in the revised contract? | | | |
| Mick Beale on 18:04 - Oct 21 with 2632 views | SimplyNico |
| Mick Beale on 17:51 - Oct 21 by Faurlinho |
Very good post Nick - all makes sense, though I guarantee we’ll hear the same moans next time round. Presumably they can up his salary (assuming he’d sign) and include an increased but proportionate release fee in the revised contract? |
Much shorter response on this one: yes! | | | |
| Mick Beale on 18:54 - Oct 21 with 2457 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
So in criticising the club for the release being too low, you’d essentially be criticising the club for not paying a completely untried and untested first time manager a significantly higher basic wage? Which in turn would have eaten into the playing budget? And of course hung a large liability in the form of compensation over the club in the event that the untried manager ended up failing within the three year term?
If so can we finally end this nonsense rhetoric? |  | | |
| Mick Beale on 19:04 - Oct 21 with 2414 views | SimplyNico |
| Mick Beale on 18:54 - Oct 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
So in criticising the club for the release being too low, you’d essentially be criticising the club for not paying a completely untried and untested first time manager a significantly higher basic wage? Which in turn would have eaten into the playing budget? And of course hung a large liability in the form of compensation over the club in the event that the untried manager ended up failing within the three year term?
If so can we finally end this nonsense rhetoric? |
The salary is the salary. That's a negotiation point. If the Club thinks a salary demand is unrealistic, they walk away. They do that all the time with transfer fees that are too high.
The release is also negotiated, but has to be within the parameters of what the law allows. If not, it falls and there is no point in having it in the contract. | | | |
| Mick Beale on 19:34 - Oct 21 with 2355 views | Match82 |
| Mick Beale on 18:54 - Oct 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
So in criticising the club for the release being too low, you’d essentially be criticising the club for not paying a completely untried and untested first time manager a significantly higher basic wage? Which in turn would have eaten into the playing budget? And of course hung a large liability in the form of compensation over the club in the event that the untried manager ended up failing within the three year term?
If so can we finally end this nonsense rhetoric? |
Mate the people critical of the low release clause talking as if they are master negotiators are the exact same people who'd be screaming for blood if we had insisted on a 10m release clause when we approached Beale and it made him walk away from negotiations.
Whole bunch of captain hindsight stuff on here, although I will happily credit anyone who can show me a post from before the appointment that suggested we would struggle to hold onto Beale till Christmas |  | | |
| Mick Beale on 21:16 - Oct 21 with 2224 views | Metallica_Hoop |
I'm just glad he's staying however the season may turn out. |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Mick Beale on 21:58 - Oct 21 with 2157 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
When all is said and done I think he (and his rep) has been a bit of a shithouse to be honest. Leaving speculation like that up in the air is disruptive and he/they know it.
That’s makes no difference to the fact he’s been amazing or that it’s just modern football. Just takes the shine of it all for me, and it’s not nice knowing we’ll have to look over our shoulder every time a Prem manager gets the tin tack.
Good luck to him, but we should bookmark this thread for when the inevitable poor run of form comes because after all this is the Championship.
You can get away with it with fans once, but not twice. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 22:00]
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| Mick Beale on 23:42 - Oct 21 with 2025 views | PunteR |
| Mick Beale on 21:58 - Oct 21 by BazzaInTheLoft |
When all is said and done I think he (and his rep) has been a bit of a shithouse to be honest. Leaving speculation like that up in the air is disruptive and he/they know it.
That’s makes no difference to the fact he’s been amazing or that it’s just modern football. Just takes the shine of it all for me, and it’s not nice knowing we’ll have to look over our shoulder every time a Prem manager gets the tin tack.
Good luck to him, but we should bookmark this thread for when the inevitable poor run of form comes because after all this is the Championship.
You can get away with it with fans once, but not twice. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 22:00]
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I'm just gonna pretend it never happened and just enjoy the rest of the season.
The business side of football is not very compatible with the fans side of it. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Mick Beale on 00:35 - Oct 22 with 1946 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Mick Beale on 17:24 - Oct 21 by SimplyNico |
Chris, I said I would say something about this, so here goes.
In relation to the suggestion that the release clause should be renegotiated, presumably to some much higher figure, this is actually quite difficult to do.
Conceptually, release clauses have something of a tightrope to walk. On one side, there is the fact that they potentially act in restraint of trade. The general principle with restraints of trade is that they are void because they are contrary to public policy, which is to promote free trade; this is unless the restraint is reasonable.
On the other side of the tightrope, if it is being argued that the restraint (release clause) is some sort of liquidated damages clause, it has to be not out of proportion to the damage suffered in relation to the employment; if it is out of proportion, it will be a penalty, and penalties get struck out of contracts too. Again, liquidated damages have to be reasonable.
Seeking to argue that but for losing manager X or Y, a club has lost the chance to be promoted is difficult in what is recognised to be one of the most competitive leagues in Europe where anyone can beat anyone; the lost chance exists, but it is difficult to prove. Trying to prove, for example, at this stage in the season, that promotion is nailed on but for the loss of the manager is effectively hopeless - see Robith's comments on predicting outcomes in his analysis.
It also can't be linked to loss of a chance to prize money for a particular place in the league, because this isn't awarded in the Champ.
Whilst the release fee has to be reasonable and proportionate, the question then is reasonable and proportionate to what? The answer is probably the value of MB's contract, which is the benchmark cost of recruiting a replacement.
The release fee is being touted as £1.2m. A rough and ready view is that this is two years' salary cost for MB (which is not out of proportion to the value of Champ manager contracts), or our reputed level of wages - managers generally earn less than players.
Accordingly, for anyone trying to suggest that we should be asking for a £5m or £10m release, this is simply unworkable.
In any event, I think the bigger issue is how Wolves knew there was a release clause,. There isn't a central registry of manager contracts that you can go and check, and manager contracts in the Champ are not standard form. Accordingly, someone has provided that figure to Wolves (and the Telegraph). |
While I appreciate this apparent masterclass for what it's worth, as most merely monetarist analysis does, it totally overlooks the individual value of MB as (i) a footballing man and (ii) a fit for us. Managers aren't to be valued like for like as merely exchangeable commodities - they're individuals, which is all we are (and those who just want to be sheep).
QPR could, within reason, propose what they wanted in Beale's contract, and he and his agent could negotiate from there. He's a club asset, just like Willock, the Stanley Bowles
Stand we kindly paid for, on Hoos' behalf and Jude the Cat.
Clubs also don't have to let other clubs talk to contracted managers or players, and the lack of muscluature from QPR when all this 'speculation' broke is also regrettable, but of a piece, for me, with our traditional inferiority complex in these things, which has also contributed to the under-valuation of departing players over many years. The Eze sale aside, possibly, the eulogised Hoos and evil Les have done little or nothing to buck this trend in my view.
All's well that ends well, for now, I guess/hope, but Clive is right we can't have this palaver every time a 'bigger' clubs comes calling. I'd like to know how he proposes we head it off, though. [Post edited 22 Oct 2022 0:56]
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| Mick Beale on 00:58 - Oct 22 with 1909 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Mick Beale on 23:42 - Oct 21 by PunteR |
I'm just gonna pretend it never happened and just enjoy the rest of the season.
The business side of football is not very compatible with the fans side of it. |
To say the least. They're increasingly mutually exclusive, which is where other fans' romanticism (that the game is 'for us') is what gets in the way. In my way, I'm the least romantic, coldest-eyed fan on the board. | |
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| Mick Beale on 04:06 - Oct 22 with 1828 views | SydneyRs |
Agree with the online gushing over loyalty very much being overdone. Reminds me of the idiots talking about the Mittals having "got the bug" a few years back and therefore apparently being on the brink of pumping huge funds in. He's smart enough to know it wasn't the right move for him and carried a lot of risks if it didn't work out. You only have to look at Gerrard's fortunes since leaving Glasgow to see that.
He'll be off as soon as the right offer comes along. In the meantime we should enjoy his time here and see where it takes us. Honestly believe he's the best we've had here since Venables. If he leaves us in a better place than when he arrived then he's done his job.
This is also a wake up call for the club, in terms of looking at succession planning and having a list of targets ready for when he does go. Coaches that can continue the sort of playing style that is being developed (had to laugh at Dyche's name coming up this week for example). If you look at Brentford, they took quite a long time to get promoted despite how well run they were/are. It isn't easy. They regularly lost star players and were able to find good replacements when they did. They appointed coaches that fitted with what they were trying to do, inlcuding sticking with Frank early doors when he started with some bad results. That's what we also need to be able to do.
The signs are good and our current squad is capable of giving it a real good shake this year if we don't get too many key injuries. | | | |
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