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But it doesn’t mean to live life in fear of one. That’s a c unts trick to put me in fear AND give them my money. In the Roman Catholic religion I was raised in, it also required you telling the git in a frock all your “sins”. Information is power.
There may be a God. I do not know. I’m agnostic.
But organised religion on planet earth is big business and ruins lives as much as heroin or Murdoch.
Some time around 1994ish I was sitting at the bar in the Kings Head, Roehampton approaching the end of my third pint of Kronenburg and was pretty sure I had just had an insight that accounted for at least 75% of the meaning of life!
I failed to write this insight down and by the next morning had of course forgotten, but the feeling of having had that break through lingered for some time afterwards.
If XTC or other participants could try to channel themselves into a similar vein and see what they comes up with I'd be very grateful, because I've been increasingly stumped in the decades since then. I had 2 keema nan for dinner beforehand if that helps.
Actually, we've known since 1978 that the answer to what's the meaning of life is 42.
Well 42 is, among many other things, a pronic number, the third primary pseudoperfect number and third pentadecagonal number, and is the atomic number of molybdenum. So it is pretty special.
And yes, there is a Wikipedia page devoted to the number 42.
"But organised religion on planet earth is big business and ruins lives as much as heroin or Murdoch."
heroin and murdoch dont even touch the sides in comparison
What I find staggering is how tens of millions of people are willing to have their whole lives dictated to them as to how certain aspect of their behavior is decided (and controlled) for them. F**k off, quite frankly.
Then there is the extreme minority that either commit atrocities or get into high governance whether it's in the US (look at what's going on athe the moment over abortion) , middle east, Asia or just about every other country in the world and then dictate how we are to behave. Again, f**k off.
Nowt wrong in having belief but if you think you can tell me I have to do all sorts of things 'in the name of xxxxx' then guess what?....... (the second word is 'off')
Is there God? Well we certainly didn't evolve out of thin air.
Quantum field theory tells us that even a vacuum, supposedly corresponding to 'empty' spacetime, is full of physical activity in the form of energy fluctuations. These fluctuations can give rise to particles popping out, only to be disappear shortly after. This may sound like a mathematical theory rather than real physics, but such particles have been spotted in experiments.
The spacetime vacuum state is seething with particles constantly being created and destroyed, apparently “out of nothing”.
Quantum field theory tells us that even a vacuum, supposedly corresponding to 'empty' spacetime, is full of physical activity in the form of energy fluctuations. These fluctuations can give rise to particles popping out, only to be disappear shortly after. This may sound like a mathematical theory rather than real physics, but such particles have been spotted in experiments.
The spacetime vacuum state is seething with particles constantly being created and destroyed, apparently “out of nothing”.
I find it somewhat difficult to imagine that the likes of Shakespeare and Beethoven could be a result of a few particles accidentally meeting without some form of spiritual involvement. Not a fashionable view in these times and yes, I realise the opposite side of the argument is someone like Putin.
I find it somewhat difficult to imagine that the likes of Shakespeare and Beethoven could be a result of a few particles accidentally meeting without some form of spiritual involvement. Not a fashionable view in these times and yes, I realise the opposite side of the argument is someone like Putin.
I suppose you can only get out what you putin in the first place
My theory has always been that religion developed in primitive times as a form of government/law, before people were sophisticated enough to actually create constitutions, legal systems etc. Do this, you get punished, not only now but after you die too. Be good you'll be ok and have a lovely old time after death being the basic idea. Gives people something to aspire to and a reason to try and behave.
I've become more and more cynical about religion in general as I've got older. The fact these huge and massively wealthy institutions wield such power while paying zero tax really irks me. Its also of course the cause of a lot of conflict, although I daresay humans would find another reason anyway if religion did not exist.
Of course there are the well documented issues of abuse etc too, although this exists anywhere where small numbers of people hold a lot of power over many others.
Some time around 1994ish I was sitting at the bar in the Kings Head, Roehampton approaching the end of my third pint of Kronenburg and was pretty sure I had just had an insight that accounted for at least 75% of the meaning of life!
I failed to write this insight down and by the next morning had of course forgotten, but the feeling of having had that break through lingered for some time afterwards.
If XTC or other participants could try to channel themselves into a similar vein and see what they comes up with I'd be very grateful, because I've been increasingly stumped in the decades since then. I had 2 keema nan for dinner beforehand if that helps.
Pretty sure Joseph Smith founded the mormon religion based on not much more than this.
Pretty sure Joseph Smith founded the mormon religion based on not much more than this.
I was once stuck in a house where the only book was the founder of scientology Ron L Hubbard's 'Battlefield earth'. I read three quarters of it, left and didn't even bother reading the last couple of pages to find out what happened. Soooooooooooooo badly written, makes dan brown look good.
If one is going to follow a belief set up by an author, at least find a decent one. I mean the Bible, that's a story.
If John Steinbeck had founded a cult, I might have been interested. But Hubbard? Do one.
I suppose modern day versions of hubbard might be found in the identity politics section. Some poisonous , dangerous hyperbole in there.
My theory has always been that religion developed in primitive times as a form of government/law, before people were sophisticated enough to actually create constitutions, legal systems etc. Do this, you get punished, not only now but after you die too. Be good you'll be ok and have a lovely old time after death being the basic idea. Gives people something to aspire to and a reason to try and behave.
I've become more and more cynical about religion in general as I've got older. The fact these huge and massively wealthy institutions wield such power while paying zero tax really irks me. Its also of course the cause of a lot of conflict, although I daresay humans would find another reason anyway if religion did not exist.
Of course there are the well documented issues of abuse etc too, although this exists anywhere where small numbers of people hold a lot of power over many others.
[Post edited 6 May 2022 0:36]
The history of religious belief incorporates a wide variety of systems around the world. For example, many forms of animism developed with communities seeing natural objects such as the sun, trees or rivers as powerful spiritual beings. Ancestor worship is also a key feature that involved the duty to pay homage to family or key figures who'd died.
The kind of religion you describe is there but is only a part of a whole range of belief systems, only some of which had the features you describe.
There are two critiques of religion. The scientific/enlightenment Dawkins critique and the critique of Feurbach and Marx.
The scientific critique is that religion is simply an error.
The Feurbachian/Marxist critique is that religion is the product of man, who eventually comes to be dominated by his own product. Those who dance around the totem pole forget that they have created the totem pole themselves. Man creates God in his own image. As society changes, religion changes (e.g. legions of interesting Valkyries are replaced by the more streamlined monotheistic gods of Islam, Christianity and Judaism). Within society different religions reflect different interests. As religion is the product of society it cannot be abolished by state diktat (as the Soviets tried to do) or by the scientific critique of religion. Only by transforming the society that produces the need for religion will religion disappear.
There are two critiques of religion. The scientific/enlightenment Dawkins critique and the critique of Feurbach and Marx.
The scientific critique is that religion is simply an error.
The Feurbachian/Marxist critique is that religion is the product of man, who eventually comes to be dominated by his own product. Those who dance around the totem pole forget that they have created the totem pole themselves. Man creates God in his own image. As society changes, religion changes (e.g. legions of interesting Valkyries are replaced by the more streamlined monotheistic gods of Islam, Christianity and Judaism). Within society different religions reflect different interests. As religion is the product of society it cannot be abolished by state diktat (as the Soviets tried to do) or by the scientific critique of religion. Only by transforming the society that produces the need for religion will religion disappear.
That's a phenomenal memory you've got there, TacticalR!
An interesting view, although I think there are more than two critiques of religion. I must say that Dawkins simply used strawman arguments and, although popularly heralded, was easily taken down by academics.
The Feurbachian/Marxist critique is a much more interesting view but I think fails to seriously take into account the historical universal experience of religion/spirituality. It has been a part of the human condition from the beginning and, although rejected by many, remains essential for the majority of the world today. It would appear the 'need for religion' will persist for as long as humanity exists.
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