| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 23:01 - Jan 12 with 2428 views | Dalenet |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 22:34 - Jan 12 by tony_roch975 |
you're not giving Charlton the credit they deserve for upping the tempo and putting us under pressure |
I think we can all see that Charlton were stronger in the second half and didn't let the first half affect their confidence. This was no Wigan or Plymouth. Their manager told the players after the defeat against Accy on Friday night that if they play like that again they won't play for him again. I can only imagine the half time team talk and it seemed to work
We should be able to hold a 2 goal lead for 45 minutes against a team that isn't firing on all cylinders. No good knocking the fan base that are disappointed and don't want to accept it. |  | |  |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 23:11 - Jan 12 with 2358 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 23:01 - Jan 12 by Dalenet |
I think we can all see that Charlton were stronger in the second half and didn't let the first half affect their confidence. This was no Wigan or Plymouth. Their manager told the players after the defeat against Accy on Friday night that if they play like that again they won't play for him again. I can only imagine the half time team talk and it seemed to work
We should be able to hold a 2 goal lead for 45 minutes against a team that isn't firing on all cylinders. No good knocking the fan base that are disappointed and don't want to accept it. |
There's very few comments that indicate a draw wasn't a fair result, hardly a fanbase |  |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 06:14 - Jan 13 with 2128 views | rkershaw |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 23:01 - Jan 12 by Dalenet |
I think we can all see that Charlton were stronger in the second half and didn't let the first half affect their confidence. This was no Wigan or Plymouth. Their manager told the players after the defeat against Accy on Friday night that if they play like that again they won't play for him again. I can only imagine the half time team talk and it seemed to work
We should be able to hold a 2 goal lead for 45 minutes against a team that isn't firing on all cylinders. No good knocking the fan base that are disappointed and don't want to accept it. |
Anybody who has a negative word about any aspect of last night's game needs to go and have a word with themselves..... THAT was a fantastic advert for League One football.....absolutely breathtaking!! | | | |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 07:11 - Jan 13 with 2075 views | fitzochris |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 06:14 - Jan 13 by rkershaw |
Anybody who has a negative word about any aspect of last night's game needs to go and have a word with themselves..... THAT was a fantastic advert for League One football.....absolutely breathtaking!! |
Depends if you define reasonable criticism that stems from holistic analysis as negative though. I’m quite sure everyone at the club will be looking at the goals we conceded and why.
It’s not healthy to only focus on the positive points from the game, the same as it’s not to only focus on the negative. A balanced view is one I’ll always go to first.
Last night was incredible entertainment - and if that’s all you want from watching Dale, you got it in spades. Other supporters, while enjoying the entertainment, consider the wider implications of the performance and what that means for our season, and that’s fine too. |  |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 07:29 - Jan 13 with 2058 views | tony_roch975 |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 07:11 - Jan 13 by fitzochris |
Depends if you define reasonable criticism that stems from holistic analysis as negative though. I’m quite sure everyone at the club will be looking at the goals we conceded and why.
It’s not healthy to only focus on the positive points from the game, the same as it’s not to only focus on the negative. A balanced view is one I’ll always go to first.
Last night was incredible entertainment - and if that’s all you want from watching Dale, you got it in spades. Other supporters, while enjoying the entertainment, consider the wider implications of the performance and what that means for our season, and that’s fine too. |
reasonable argument - yes, more defensive solidity and less attacking (more Ryan less Baah?) might please some but in that case all the criticism of 'fans won't return to watch this rubbish', 'BBM is only promoting negative intent' and ' we only ever pass sideways' (tactics which tighten defence) needs to be equally tempered - I'll go for consistency as well as balance; course if we'd scored a 5th & won would that outweigh the concern about the goals conceded? | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 07:42 - Jan 13 with 2044 views | fitzochris |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 07:29 - Jan 13 by tony_roch975 |
reasonable argument - yes, more defensive solidity and less attacking (more Ryan less Baah?) might please some but in that case all the criticism of 'fans won't return to watch this rubbish', 'BBM is only promoting negative intent' and ' we only ever pass sideways' (tactics which tighten defence) needs to be equally tempered - I'll go for consistency as well as balance; course if we'd scored a 5th & won would that outweigh the concern about the goals conceded? |
If we had won last night in the manner you describe, it shouldn’t have altered a person’s balanced view one iota. The goals conceded would still be looked at, as they should be.
You look at A versus B and draw your conclusions. The conclusions can be disagreed with, but, as long as someone has considered both sides of the coin in reaching that conclusion, that’s the type of opinion I’ll read.
You also have to consider we don’t always have all the information too. BBM was criticised for not bringing on McShane but we now know he was injured in the warm-up. There may well be mitigation for why Dooley came on instead of Newby too.
But what we did see, in addition to purposeful attacking football in the first half, was defensive errors in the second - yes brought about by Charlton’s pressing, but that in turn was brought on by our own change in tempo.
Between the last 45 minutes at Crewe and the first 45 at Charlton, we’ve played a perfect game. We now need to get that into a single match against Wigan and start an upswing in our home form. | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 07:52 - Jan 13 with 2030 views | judd |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 07:42 - Jan 13 by fitzochris |
If we had won last night in the manner you describe, it shouldn’t have altered a person’s balanced view one iota. The goals conceded would still be looked at, as they should be.
You look at A versus B and draw your conclusions. The conclusions can be disagreed with, but, as long as someone has considered both sides of the coin in reaching that conclusion, that’s the type of opinion I’ll read.
You also have to consider we don’t always have all the information too. BBM was criticised for not bringing on McShane but we now know he was injured in the warm-up. There may well be mitigation for why Dooley came on instead of Newby too.
But what we did see, in addition to purposeful attacking football in the first half, was defensive errors in the second - yes brought about by Charlton’s pressing, but that in turn was brought on by our own change in tempo.
Between the last 45 minutes at Crewe and the first 45 at Charlton, we’ve played a perfect game. We now need to get that into a single match against Wigan and start an upswing in our home form. |
Well said.
On Saturday morning I would have taken 2 points from these last 2 games, but to put ourselves in with a good chance of winning both games and not do so is what grates.
We desperately need wins if we are going to pull away from the relegation zone and it appears to me that we have forgotten how to win a game, certainly at home.
On the plus side, as D_Alien referenced on Saturday, some semblance of entertainment has returned, which has been largely missing for 4 seasons. |  |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 09:31 - Jan 13 with 1912 views | tony_roch975 |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 07:42 - Jan 13 by fitzochris |
If we had won last night in the manner you describe, it shouldn’t have altered a person’s balanced view one iota. The goals conceded would still be looked at, as they should be.
You look at A versus B and draw your conclusions. The conclusions can be disagreed with, but, as long as someone has considered both sides of the coin in reaching that conclusion, that’s the type of opinion I’ll read.
You also have to consider we don’t always have all the information too. BBM was criticised for not bringing on McShane but we now know he was injured in the warm-up. There may well be mitigation for why Dooley came on instead of Newby too.
But what we did see, in addition to purposeful attacking football in the first half, was defensive errors in the second - yes brought about by Charlton’s pressing, but that in turn was brought on by our own change in tempo.
Between the last 45 minutes at Crewe and the first 45 at Charlton, we’ve played a perfect game. We now need to get that into a single match against Wigan and start an upswing in our home form. |
agreed it shouldn't but it's all a question of chicken and egg - you think it was our change of tempo which allowed Charlton to press more, I think their press changed our tempo; both balanced views but yours is more of a criticism - I'm a carrot not a stick person; for example I agree with psychologist Stephen Reicher that we should hear more about all the successes of those sticking to the Covid rules however difficult, the Govt believes we need to hear about the failures. | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 09:59 - Jan 13 with 1846 views | fitzochris |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 09:31 - Jan 13 by tony_roch975 |
agreed it shouldn't but it's all a question of chicken and egg - you think it was our change of tempo which allowed Charlton to press more, I think their press changed our tempo; both balanced views but yours is more of a criticism - I'm a carrot not a stick person; for example I agree with psychologist Stephen Reicher that we should hear more about all the successes of those sticking to the Covid rules however difficult, the Govt believes we need to hear about the failures. |
Let's say you're right and it was what Charlton did in the second half that changed our tempo. What did those in our dugout do to try to counter that, in your opinion? | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 10:01 - Jan 13 with 1845 views | AtThePeake |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 22:11 - Jan 12 by funkkk |
It was the second half farting around that cost us unfortunately. |
It didn't feel to me like their chances came from us 'farting around' in that second half really. Their third came from a long ball and a cross and their fourth came from a mistake by Dooley, but in the position he was in he was far enough from goal to be trying to keep hold of it and find a pass rather than launching it forward to nobody and putting us back under pressure without the ball. He was almost at the half-way line when it came to him. Even the chance where Bazunu made the excellent save came from a quick counter-attack.
(EDIT: Just watched the highlights back and Dooley wasn't as high up the pitch as I thought. Still think he deserves more criticism individually for that though)
Unfortunately I think the last couple of games have shown that we're just not a very good team defensively. Whether that's a lack of organisation or leadership or individual intelligence and ability I'm not sure but it's worth noting none of the seven goals we've conceded were scored in the half that McShane played. As others have alluded to, you do wonder whether part of BBM's insistence on keeping possession over the course of the season is down to the fact that when we are open and direct it leaves a pretty weak defence very exposed.
That said, it's been exposed by our insistence on keeping possession at times, at least with the football we've seen in the last two games we look like a threat at the other end as well.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 11:00 - Jan 13 with 1751 views | dawlishdale |
For the neutral, last night was a fantastic game, and a credit to L1.
However, having scored 4 really good goals away from home, we should be capable of winning the game, rather than hanging on somewhat (until they went down to 10; they looked like winning it).
There is little doubt that Baah offers a fantastic threat going forward, and a fully fit Humphreys is a handful for defenders, which is really good news for us, allowing Lund and other midfield players to press forward with an outlet.
However, half of our defence is not up to league standard. McNulty and Keohane are non league standard, and I can't understand just how few posters see Keohanes constant shortcomings when he is attacked. He rarely keeps pace with any winger, rarely stops crosses coming into the box, and is outmuscled so easily .
We all know about Jim's clumsy decision making, and it has been thus for as long as he has been here.
Last night , Roberts made 2 or 3 errors, the first of which led to their first goal, but watch again, and you will see that Keohane should have been able to cut off the run before they scored, but didn't really try. And overall, Roberts has been so good that he has enough credit to excuse an error or two.
If we are serious about staying in L1 (and the evidence suggests that we are capable offensively) we really need to sign 2 defenders that are better than Keohane and Jim, as McShane and McLaughlin (both good players when fit) just don't play enough.
I feel for Dooley, because his error was easy to see, and ultimately cost us dear, and again, I question whether he is really good enough for L1 level . And for the first time, I thought that Beesley was poor last night, perhaps too easily outmuscled.
However, I'd have been happy with a point before the game; it's just that we could so easily have had all 3.
On to Wigan at home... and hopefully, a continuation of our first half at the Valley, rather than our first half against Crewe. | | | |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 11:03 - Jan 13 with 1742 views | jonahwhereru |
In an exchange with TVOS after the Peterborough game I said we had enough about us to get something out of our next 11 games, with the exception of Charlton away. Therefore I am delighted with the result and most of the performance. Humphrys is so direct and full of intent when he has the ball, and he can really hit the thing. Baah is exciting but needs to understand his defensive responsibilities. Lund is simply reborn. What must Scunthorpe supporters make of him.
Our Achilles Heel is being attacked at pace, like most teams. McLaughlin has pace but Keohane is not quick and as a group our centre halves aren’t blessed with it. To stifle that we would need to curb some attacking intent, a conundrum for sure.
As for Wigan will they see this a a must not loose game, and likewise will we. I think they will put players behind the ball. So entetainment could be in short supply. I’ll take a 1-0 right now.
UTD | | | |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 11:17 - Jan 13 with 1712 views | DaleiLama |
I wouldn't have been surprised to see something like this last night either
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 12:29 - Jan 13 with 1570 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 09:31 - Jan 13 by tony_roch975 |
agreed it shouldn't but it's all a question of chicken and egg - you think it was our change of tempo which allowed Charlton to press more, I think their press changed our tempo; both balanced views but yours is more of a criticism - I'm a carrot not a stick person; for example I agree with psychologist Stephen Reicher that we should hear more about all the successes of those sticking to the Covid rules however difficult, the Govt believes we need to hear about the failures. |
It's emphasised every briefing, that the vast majority are sticking to the rules. It requires a balanced view, as ever*
* and let's keep to the point, eh? | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 12:32 - Jan 13 with 1560 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 07:52 - Jan 13 by judd |
Well said.
On Saturday morning I would have taken 2 points from these last 2 games, but to put ourselves in with a good chance of winning both games and not do so is what grates.
We desperately need wins if we are going to pull away from the relegation zone and it appears to me that we have forgotten how to win a game, certainly at home.
On the plus side, as D_Alien referenced on Saturday, some semblance of entertainment has returned, which has been largely missing for 4 seasons. |
Indeed. All managers will make mistakes, but so much can be forgiven when we at least try to exploit our attacking strengths | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 12:57 - Jan 13 with 1487 views | seasidedale |
Looking at the highlights when Dooley lost the ball it looks like he was in two minds wether to thump the tackler then decided to get the ball, which off course was toomlate | | | |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:21 - Jan 13 with 1430 views | tony_roch975 |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 10:01 - Jan 13 by AtThePeake |
It didn't feel to me like their chances came from us 'farting around' in that second half really. Their third came from a long ball and a cross and their fourth came from a mistake by Dooley, but in the position he was in he was far enough from goal to be trying to keep hold of it and find a pass rather than launching it forward to nobody and putting us back under pressure without the ball. He was almost at the half-way line when it came to him. Even the chance where Bazunu made the excellent save came from a quick counter-attack.
(EDIT: Just watched the highlights back and Dooley wasn't as high up the pitch as I thought. Still think he deserves more criticism individually for that though)
Unfortunately I think the last couple of games have shown that we're just not a very good team defensively. Whether that's a lack of organisation or leadership or individual intelligence and ability I'm not sure but it's worth noting none of the seven goals we've conceded were scored in the half that McShane played. As others have alluded to, you do wonder whether part of BBM's insistence on keeping possession over the course of the season is down to the fact that when we are open and direct it leaves a pretty weak defence very exposed.
That said, it's been exposed by our insistence on keeping possession at times, at least with the football we've seen in the last two games we look like a threat at the other end as well.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
agree about McShane - quality but, as someone posted last season, he wouldn't be at Dale if he was regularly match fit & makes sense that our defensive frailties could be influencing BBM's possession strategy. From the extended highlights looks like you're first recollection was right ATP - Dooley receives the ball from Rathbone 10 yards from the halfway line, exchanges passes with Keohane and that's when he's pressed. | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:29 - Jan 13 with 1408 views | funkkk |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 10:01 - Jan 13 by AtThePeake |
It didn't feel to me like their chances came from us 'farting around' in that second half really. Their third came from a long ball and a cross and their fourth came from a mistake by Dooley, but in the position he was in he was far enough from goal to be trying to keep hold of it and find a pass rather than launching it forward to nobody and putting us back under pressure without the ball. He was almost at the half-way line when it came to him. Even the chance where Bazunu made the excellent save came from a quick counter-attack.
(EDIT: Just watched the highlights back and Dooley wasn't as high up the pitch as I thought. Still think he deserves more criticism individually for that though)
Unfortunately I think the last couple of games have shown that we're just not a very good team defensively. Whether that's a lack of organisation or leadership or individual intelligence and ability I'm not sure but it's worth noting none of the seven goals we've conceded were scored in the half that McShane played. As others have alluded to, you do wonder whether part of BBM's insistence on keeping possession over the course of the season is down to the fact that when we are open and direct it leaves a pretty weak defence very exposed.
That said, it's been exposed by our insistence on keeping possession at times, at least with the football we've seen in the last two games we look like a threat at the other end as well.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
In short, I think that attack is currently our best form of defence.
We came out in the second half and it looked, to me, that the players had been instructed to really slow the game down and try to maintain possession. We sat deeper and deeper until the inevitable goals came. We aren’t good enough to do this and, in slowing the game down, we become really easy to play against. At 4-4 I don’t think we showed any desire to win the game until the red card.
I certainly think the tempo of our play has a bigger impact on our performances than anything else. I have no problem with possession based football but there needs to be intent alongside it as there was in the first half.
In game management could be key to us keeping our heads above the water and until we find the right balance we are going to keep being frustrated. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:33 - Jan 13 with 1395 views | D_Alien |
Something that's not been mentioned yet is Humphrys devastating strike from the free kick
...taken from pretty much the same central position as the one where the opportunity to take a direct strike was passed up at the end of the Crewe game, give or take a yard either way | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:35 - Jan 13 with 1389 views | judd |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:33 - Jan 13 by D_Alien |
Something that's not been mentioned yet is Humphrys devastating strike from the free kick
...taken from pretty much the same central position as the one where the opportunity to take a direct strike was passed up at the end of the Crewe game, give or take a yard either way |
DON'T.
Just DON'T | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:43 - Jan 13 with 1356 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:35 - Jan 13 by judd |
DON'T.
Just DON'T |
Aye, sorry
It's just too painful | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:44 - Jan 13 with 1356 views | AtThePeake |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:33 - Jan 13 by D_Alien |
Something that's not been mentioned yet is Humphrys devastating strike from the free kick
...taken from pretty much the same central position as the one where the opportunity to take a direct strike was passed up at the end of the Crewe game, give or take a yard either way |
But just look what Baah did when given the ball out wide on the left!  | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:47 - Jan 13 with 1343 views | AtThePeake |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:29 - Jan 13 by funkkk |
In short, I think that attack is currently our best form of defence.
We came out in the second half and it looked, to me, that the players had been instructed to really slow the game down and try to maintain possession. We sat deeper and deeper until the inevitable goals came. We aren’t good enough to do this and, in slowing the game down, we become really easy to play against. At 4-4 I don’t think we showed any desire to win the game until the red card.
I certainly think the tempo of our play has a bigger impact on our performances than anything else. I have no problem with possession based football but there needs to be intent alongside it as there was in the first half.
In game management could be key to us keeping our heads above the water and until we find the right balance we are going to keep being frustrated. |
We definitely aren't good enough to sit deep and invite pressure on, agreed there. I'm just not sure that was definitely the plan in that second half, especially given that most of their chances didn't really seem to come from us sitting deep or farting about with the ball and some credit does have to go to Charlton who did look far better in the second half. When looking at how tired Baah looked when taken off and how tired Humphrys looked when we tried to push for a winner with the extra man, I think it may have been down to fatigue more than a tactical switch - which highlights the need for reinforcements to the squad this month. Agree about in-game management too though, which is where McShane would've come in handy in that second half and in hindsight, possibly Newby instead of Dooley also. | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:53 - Jan 13 with 1326 views | judd |
| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 13:44 - Jan 13 by AtThePeake |
But just look what Baah did when given the ball out wide on the left! |
And you can do one, an' all!!!! | |
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| Match Thread: Charlton vs Rochdale on 14:08 - Jan 13 with 1293 views | SaxonDale |
As others have said we were simply not good enough defensively last night. Going forward he was better than he has been but Keohane still didn't do enough defensively (yes Roberts should do better for the first but Keohane is guilty of ball watching rather than covering.) I'd hope for a left back by the end of the week.
Desperately obvious we're lacking a leader on the pitch too. Someone who's going to provide us 7/10 every game from midfield and concentrate on defending. Amazing how often it seems we concede in quick concession to scoring/conceding. A Peter Cavanagh/ Keith Keane player would be top of my list after a left back. |  | | |
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