| Season Ticket Update on 09:23 - Jul 25 with 2430 views | 442Dale |
| Season Ticket Update on 09:10 - Jul 25 by Dalenet |
Could you explain your comments. There is no option to claim a refund. Just an option to give your tickets away or ask the club not to give your tickets away by begging them not to do it.
And to answer your other question above on why I think it is illegal. The "customer" and club entered into a contract to provide a service. That service has not been provided in full and the club have a liability to that customer. At present they have not provided any opportunity to that customer for breach of contract. As I said, I am sure that the Trust thought they were doing the right thing. But the Trust cannot and should not speak for the fan base about that breach of contract where some fans cannot afford the solution. Not everybody has been bailed out by the Government in the way Ancoats Blue suggests. I work with a charity that has had to deal with those that haven't been caught by the Government help and they are pretty desperate.
This could all have been avoided had the club said "If you would like a refund please tick here, but if you don't need it, we will be delighted to use the tickets to support the wider community". But they haven't done that and we all know why. Sorry you can't see the issue |
Your last paragraph is the issue that needed clarifying with simple communication throughout: specific mention of a refund and how to claim it.
That clearly needs to be addressed with an amendment to the article. |  |
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| Season Ticket Update on 09:35 - Jul 25 with 2389 views | TVOS1907 |
| Season Ticket Update on 09:10 - Jul 25 by Dalenet |
Could you explain your comments. There is no option to claim a refund. Just an option to give your tickets away or ask the club not to give your tickets away by begging them not to do it.
And to answer your other question above on why I think it is illegal. The "customer" and club entered into a contract to provide a service. That service has not been provided in full and the club have a liability to that customer. At present they have not provided any opportunity to that customer for breach of contract. As I said, I am sure that the Trust thought they were doing the right thing. But the Trust cannot and should not speak for the fan base about that breach of contract where some fans cannot afford the solution. Not everybody has been bailed out by the Government in the way Ancoats Blue suggests. I work with a charity that has had to deal with those that haven't been caught by the Government help and they are pretty desperate.
This could all have been avoided had the club said "If you would like a refund please tick here, but if you don't need it, we will be delighted to use the tickets to support the wider community". But they haven't done that and we all know why. Sorry you can't see the issue |
I've already replied to Col saying that the wording in the story was poor; it's disappointing he hasn't addressed it yet.
However, a phrase like "breach of contract" is a bit over the top when it was a global pandemic, not the club, that shut down football and meant we missed out on six home games. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Season Ticket Update on 10:02 - Jul 25 with 2338 views | standale |
| Season Ticket Update on 09:35 - Jul 25 by TVOS1907 |
I've already replied to Col saying that the wording in the story was poor; it's disappointing he hasn't addressed it yet.
However, a phrase like "breach of contract" is a bit over the top when it was a global pandemic, not the club, that shut down football and meant we missed out on six home games. |
I’d think breach of contract is factually in correct seeing as you point out, the situation was totally out of the clubs hands.
Also the use of Dalenet’s language “ begging them not to do it” is a bit over the top as well imo.
As for the trust speaking for the fan base, I still can’t see that , it’s a scheme to donate unused tickets to parts of the community. You can either do it or not, nobody is forcing or “begging “ people not to do it. |  | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 10:18 - Jul 25 with 2313 views | funkkk |
I think, having had time to consider, my initial assessment of this being a good idea but it being poorly presented is a bit soft.
Ultimately the club want to keep season ticket holders' money and by way of thanks they are going to give away tickets to other people? I'm more than happy for key workers to be given free tickets but EFL clubs up and down the country give away thousands of tickets each season, this isn't anything new.
There are loads of ways fans could be encouraged to not apply for a refund that would cost the club very little but still reward those who don't claim.
Regardless of the scheme chosen the tone of the article was wrong. Even the headline 'Dale To Donate 15,000 Tickets To Key Workers' is misleading, surely this is on the presumption nobody wants a refund? It then details what the club IS going to do with everybody's tickets without consultation. To then make no mention of refunds and simply suggesting you are opting out of giving your tickets to key workers is pretty poor imo. |  | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 10:23 - Jul 25 with 2293 views | standale |
| Season Ticket Update on 10:18 - Jul 25 by funkkk |
I think, having had time to consider, my initial assessment of this being a good idea but it being poorly presented is a bit soft.
Ultimately the club want to keep season ticket holders' money and by way of thanks they are going to give away tickets to other people? I'm more than happy for key workers to be given free tickets but EFL clubs up and down the country give away thousands of tickets each season, this isn't anything new.
There are loads of ways fans could be encouraged to not apply for a refund that would cost the club very little but still reward those who don't claim.
Regardless of the scheme chosen the tone of the article was wrong. Even the headline 'Dale To Donate 15,000 Tickets To Key Workers' is misleading, surely this is on the presumption nobody wants a refund? It then details what the club IS going to do with everybody's tickets without consultation. To then make no mention of refunds and simply suggesting you are opting out of giving your tickets to key workers is pretty poor imo. |
So in summary, the club has presented it poorly, but the sentiment is a good idea.
Think I agree with that. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 10:38 - Jul 25 with 2251 views | jonahwhereru |
I have a message for the Trust committee, in the interests of your own health and well-being please give up your roles and look to live a life with less hassle and consternation.
You come up with an honourable suggestion which reflects the mood of the country and the majority of season ticket holders ( of which to make it clear I am not one) and get castigated simply because you believed in the scheme to much. Your desire to get 100% take up has ment that some who would have been happy to contribute will now seek a refund. Which is their absolute right and choice.
Please be reassured you are not a group of swindling dictators, and you diffinately should NOT be ashamed of yourselves.
There will always be people in life looking for a red rag to charge at, but don’t let their lopsided views get to you. You suggested a good scheme. Remember this episode for that and enjoy the moment when those deserving a nice community gesture receive it. |  | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 10:52 - Jul 25 with 2223 views | AtThePeake |
| Season Ticket Update on 09:10 - Jul 25 by Dalenet |
Could you explain your comments. There is no option to claim a refund. Just an option to give your tickets away or ask the club not to give your tickets away by begging them not to do it.
And to answer your other question above on why I think it is illegal. The "customer" and club entered into a contract to provide a service. That service has not been provided in full and the club have a liability to that customer. At present they have not provided any opportunity to that customer for breach of contract. As I said, I am sure that the Trust thought they were doing the right thing. But the Trust cannot and should not speak for the fan base about that breach of contract where some fans cannot afford the solution. Not everybody has been bailed out by the Government in the way Ancoats Blue suggests. I work with a charity that has had to deal with those that haven't been caught by the Government help and they are pretty desperate.
This could all have been avoided had the club said "If you would like a refund please tick here, but if you don't need it, we will be delighted to use the tickets to support the wider community". But they haven't done that and we all know why. Sorry you can't see the issue |
It's very clear from the reaction that the scheme has been presented incorrectly and the article should've included more detail about the refund. I also disagree with any fans chastising people asking for a refund. After the last few months, for some fans that money might be the difference between getting a season ticket for themselves or not next season for example.
However, if this all comes down to the difference between ticking a box and sending an email then I still can't help but feel the reaction is ever so slightly over the top. |  |
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| Season Ticket Update on 11:25 - Jul 25 with 2157 views | judd |
The Trust and club seem to have been trying to find a way to resolve the issue of recompense for the 6 games cancelled as a result of the pandemic.
What about the Bury home game?
That's 7 games season ticket holders have paid to see that didn't go ahead.
Undoubtedly well meant sentiment by the Trust, but on other social media platforms season ticket holders are expressing similar annoyance at their rights being decided by an organisation of which they are not members.
One thing that remains is this cavernous divide caused by the calamitous management of our football club as evidenced by this thread and the recent strongly worded Trust statement.
It's time for change. |  |
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| Season Ticket Update on 11:26 - Jul 25 with 2153 views | lurker |
| Season Ticket Update on 10:52 - Jul 25 by AtThePeake |
It's very clear from the reaction that the scheme has been presented incorrectly and the article should've included more detail about the refund. I also disagree with any fans chastising people asking for a refund. After the last few months, for some fans that money might be the difference between getting a season ticket for themselves or not next season for example.
However, if this all comes down to the difference between ticking a box and sending an email then I still can't help but feel the reaction is ever so slightly over the top. |
Nail on the head! I don't blame the Trust at all. I'm sure Col & Co have worked hard to come up with a good scheme for many but they are not in charge of the communication of it. The club are, and I tend to agree with posts above that the wording has likely been made deliberately ambiguous to encourage people who perhaps would ask for a refund not to bother doing so. It's disappointing!
I'm a key worker with a family who's working harder than ever for well below the average UK wage. I don't just want a refund, I need it in the current times. I love football, but it's not essential and I may be thinking too much with my head here but I don't feel a moral obligation to prop the club up. I'm not a shareholder, owner or director who might gain something from the businesses success. I'm just a spectator who likes to be entertained and I've paid for 6 (edit: or 7, thanks Judd) games I didn't see.
It could've been communicated better. Which also brings me on to the process of emailing the club to opt out. I've done so and made it clear in the email I wish for guidance on the process to claim a partial refund. I then received what is a god awful automatic response on the email address provided by the club.
"Thank you for your email. I am now on working part-time under the Furlough arrangements. I will deal with your contact within the next few days and my emails are being looked at by someone most days, but not at weekends"
I mean come on guys. It just doesn't inspire confidence. Can see this being a ball ache. If this were a holiday company or similar I had been dealing with for a refund during the pandemic I wouldn't touch them again. [Post edited 25 Jul 2020 11:30]
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| Season Ticket Update on 11:30 - Jul 25 with 2132 views | dawlishdale |
| Season Ticket Update on 10:52 - Jul 25 by AtThePeake |
It's very clear from the reaction that the scheme has been presented incorrectly and the article should've included more detail about the refund. I also disagree with any fans chastising people asking for a refund. After the last few months, for some fans that money might be the difference between getting a season ticket for themselves or not next season for example.
However, if this all comes down to the difference between ticking a box and sending an email then I still can't help but feel the reaction is ever so slightly over the top. |
A good idea, but shockingly executed.
There should have been 3 clear options for fans.
1) Donate unused ticket monies to worthy causes such as tickets for Key Workers.
2) A voucher for the club shop or a meal in the lounge to the value of tickets purchased but lost (because of the profit margins; this would cost the club far less than a refund)
3) A full refund.
Don't try to hide things!!!
As Col says; the club had already decided to give a full refund, so doing it this way would have resulted in less outlay for them. The insulting way that they have announced this is just begging for people to question things. It's amateurish I'm afraid. Mind you; had the Trust canvassed it's members first(which they damn well should have done) none of this would have happened.
I was quite prepared to forego the unused tickets for the greater good of the club; and probably still will, unless there is a price rise for the next season ticket coming soon.
I hope that the club sees fit to re-write the statement or they risk upsetting the very people they should be caring for. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 11:46 - Jul 25 with 2080 views | 442Dale |
| Season Ticket Update on 11:26 - Jul 25 by lurker |
Nail on the head! I don't blame the Trust at all. I'm sure Col & Co have worked hard to come up with a good scheme for many but they are not in charge of the communication of it. The club are, and I tend to agree with posts above that the wording has likely been made deliberately ambiguous to encourage people who perhaps would ask for a refund not to bother doing so. It's disappointing!
I'm a key worker with a family who's working harder than ever for well below the average UK wage. I don't just want a refund, I need it in the current times. I love football, but it's not essential and I may be thinking too much with my head here but I don't feel a moral obligation to prop the club up. I'm not a shareholder, owner or director who might gain something from the businesses success. I'm just a spectator who likes to be entertained and I've paid for 6 (edit: or 7, thanks Judd) games I didn't see.
It could've been communicated better. Which also brings me on to the process of emailing the club to opt out. I've done so and made it clear in the email I wish for guidance on the process to claim a partial refund. I then received what is a god awful automatic response on the email address provided by the club.
"Thank you for your email. I am now on working part-time under the Furlough arrangements. I will deal with your contact within the next few days and my emails are being looked at by someone most days, but not at weekends"
I mean come on guys. It just doesn't inspire confidence. Can see this being a ball ache. If this were a holiday company or similar I had been dealing with for a refund during the pandemic I wouldn't touch them again. [Post edited 25 Jul 2020 11:30]
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After giving contact details to not have a clear, detailed, automated response around the refunds process is poor. Either that or ensure the automated response is turned off.
Another example of how this situation is one of communication, one which could have been avoided. It should detract from a really good idea though, and to ensure it doesn’t a further communication with amendments would really help. | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 11:48 - Jul 25 with 2070 views | standale |
| Season Ticket Update on 11:30 - Jul 25 by dawlishdale |
A good idea, but shockingly executed.
There should have been 3 clear options for fans.
1) Donate unused ticket monies to worthy causes such as tickets for Key Workers.
2) A voucher for the club shop or a meal in the lounge to the value of tickets purchased but lost (because of the profit margins; this would cost the club far less than a refund)
3) A full refund.
Don't try to hide things!!!
As Col says; the club had already decided to give a full refund, so doing it this way would have resulted in less outlay for them. The insulting way that they have announced this is just begging for people to question things. It's amateurish I'm afraid. Mind you; had the Trust canvassed it's members first(which they damn well should have done) none of this would have happened.
I was quite prepared to forego the unused tickets for the greater good of the club; and probably still will, unless there is a price rise for the next season ticket coming soon.
I hope that the club sees fit to re-write the statement or they risk upsetting the very people they should be caring for. |
Why canvas trust members? I’ve joined the trust this year and don’t feel the need to be asked if I approve of something I can opt out of. What’s the point of that? | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 11:53 - Jul 25 with 2051 views | 49thseason |
| Season Ticket Update on 11:25 - Jul 25 by judd |
The Trust and club seem to have been trying to find a way to resolve the issue of recompense for the 6 games cancelled as a result of the pandemic.
What about the Bury home game?
That's 7 games season ticket holders have paid to see that didn't go ahead.
Undoubtedly well meant sentiment by the Trust, but on other social media platforms season ticket holders are expressing similar annoyance at their rights being decided by an organisation of which they are not members.
One thing that remains is this cavernous divide caused by the calamitous management of our football club as evidenced by this thread and the recent strongly worded Trust statement.
It's time for change. |
The Bury fiasco is a whole other can of worms. The L1 clubs should be demanding that the EFL cough up for monies lost as a result of its inability to enforce its own rules and throw them out of the league in time to allow another club to take their place before the start of last season. Their delay and dither has cost every club in the division a chunk of revenue and this despite being warned 12 months earlier that Bury, Bolton and other clubs were on the brink of extiction.
The EFL, like so many club managements is simply not fit for purpose, They enjoy the kudos too much and enact their management responsibilities too little. |  | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 12:02 - Jul 25 with 2017 views | 442Dale |
Forgetting this is a football situation for a moment, here are two options around a product/service not provided by a company affected by the pandemic/any other event:
a) contact them to claim a refund of money
b) let them keep the money to do with as they see fit
People would then act accordingly based on their own circumstances and views. Back to Dale, if those were the options fans could make a decision based on their own circumstances and views and act accordingly, with the added positive - something we all agree on I think - that if option b) is chosen then tickets will be distributed to key workers/others nominated by individual fans.
It’s really a) and b) like it would be in most circumstances - tickets for the theatre/theme parks/cricket etc, but with another benefit elsewhere. Just wish it had been clear on the refund aspect. [Post edited 25 Jul 2020 12:03]
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| Season Ticket Update on 12:10 - Jul 25 with 1984 views | judd |
| Season Ticket Update on 11:53 - Jul 25 by 49thseason |
The Bury fiasco is a whole other can of worms. The L1 clubs should be demanding that the EFL cough up for monies lost as a result of its inability to enforce its own rules and throw them out of the league in time to allow another club to take their place before the start of last season. Their delay and dither has cost every club in the division a chunk of revenue and this despite being warned 12 months earlier that Bury, Bolton and other clubs were on the brink of extiction.
The EFL, like so many club managements is simply not fit for purpose, They enjoy the kudos too much and enact their management responsibilities too little. |
Irrespective of how it is seen, the club received money through season ticket sales for 7 games that did not go ahead, not 6, none of which was the fault of the club. The trust post by col mentions that the club had a plan 're 6 missed games, not 7.
That is startling in its arrogance and disdain and there can be no excuse whatsoever for the mismanagement of this issue. | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 12:28 - Jul 25 with 1934 views | funkkk |
| Season Ticket Update on 11:30 - Jul 25 by dawlishdale |
A good idea, but shockingly executed.
There should have been 3 clear options for fans.
1) Donate unused ticket monies to worthy causes such as tickets for Key Workers.
2) A voucher for the club shop or a meal in the lounge to the value of tickets purchased but lost (because of the profit margins; this would cost the club far less than a refund)
3) A full refund.
Don't try to hide things!!!
As Col says; the club had already decided to give a full refund, so doing it this way would have resulted in less outlay for them. The insulting way that they have announced this is just begging for people to question things. It's amateurish I'm afraid. Mind you; had the Trust canvassed it's members first(which they damn well should have done) none of this would have happened.
I was quite prepared to forego the unused tickets for the greater good of the club; and probably still will, unless there is a price rise for the next season ticket coming soon.
I hope that the club sees fit to re-write the statement or they risk upsetting the very people they should be caring for. |
I may have the dates wrong as not re-checked but I believe the cut off date for opting out of a refund is the day before the new season ticket prices are announced. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 12:36 - Jul 25 with 1900 views | 49thseason |
| Season Ticket Update on 12:10 - Jul 25 by judd |
Irrespective of how it is seen, the club received money through season ticket sales for 7 games that did not go ahead, not 6, none of which was the fault of the club. The trust post by col mentions that the club had a plan 're 6 missed games, not 7.
That is startling in its arrogance and disdain and there can be no excuse whatsoever for the mismanagement of this issue. |
You are of course correct. Perhaps they were hoping that we would all forget that game. So the amount of refund should be 7/23rds of its cost. The club should be looking to recoup the money lost from that game from the EFL nontheless. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 12:37 - Jul 25 with 1899 views | justanillusion |
| Season Ticket Update on 12:28 - Jul 25 by funkkk |
I may have the dates wrong as not re-checked but I believe the cut off date for opting out of a refund is the day before the new season ticket prices are announced. |
You got it ! It's a given they will go up in price , for how many games? 20 home games due to fans not being allowed in stadiums until October and season kicking off in September [Post edited 25 Jul 2020 12:39]
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| Season Ticket Update on 12:42 - Jul 25 with 1885 views | judd |
| Season Ticket Update on 12:36 - Jul 25 by 49thseason |
You are of course correct. Perhaps they were hoping that we would all forget that game. So the amount of refund should be 7/23rds of its cost. The club should be looking to recoup the money lost from that game from the EFL nontheless. |
Agreed. Recoup the money from elsewhere, not from the fans. | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 12:42 - Jul 25 with 1880 views | D_Alien |
| Season Ticket Update on 12:37 - Jul 25 by justanillusion |
You got it ! It's a given they will go up in price , for how many games? 20 home games due to fans not being allowed in stadiums until October and season kicking off in September [Post edited 25 Jul 2020 12:39]
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I'd say the season has already kicked off... |  |
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| Season Ticket Update on 13:12 - Jul 25 with 1807 views | nordenblue |
I'm not a ST holder so doesnt really apply to me,but skimming through the thread im struggling to think of anything/anywhere else you'd purchase something yet not receive approx a third of what you've been promised and paid for months previously and be expected to think ahh fook it you're right keep it.
I can see both sides to this,but while some are pointing out the club may well be struggling financially etc id guess a fair few fans are struggling a damn site more and a refund should be made as easy as possible to request if desired. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 13:34 - Jul 25 with 1763 views | dawlishdale |
| Season Ticket Update on 12:28 - Jul 25 by funkkk |
I may have the dates wrong as not re-checked but I believe the cut off date for opting out of a refund is the day before the new season ticket prices are announced. |
Bloody hell; I've just checked, and yes, you are correct.
I hope I'm wrong, but the cynic in me fears the timing of this might be designed to prevent a rush of fans who want/need a refund for the unused tickets left over from 2019/20 in order to fund a price rise for 20/21.
Just to illustrate; an adult in the Main stand would be able to claim back £76 for the 7 unplayed games. (£65 if you omit the Bury game) Not exactly an insignificant amount.
it does seem odd to have the refund cut off date the day before next seasons prices are announced. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 14:05 - Jul 25 with 1695 views | Dalenet |
| Season Ticket Update on 10:52 - Jul 25 by AtThePeake |
It's very clear from the reaction that the scheme has been presented incorrectly and the article should've included more detail about the refund. I also disagree with any fans chastising people asking for a refund. After the last few months, for some fans that money might be the difference between getting a season ticket for themselves or not next season for example.
However, if this all comes down to the difference between ticking a box and sending an email then I still can't help but feel the reaction is ever so slightly over the top. |
It is much much more than about ticking a box
The Trust has a mandate to represent their membership. They have the mandate to spend the subscriptions and funds raised as they feel fit. I am sure they thought they were doing the right thing in suggesting this scheme, but they don't have the mandate to endorse giving away the unused tickets of the 2500 fans and they have failed to think about the impact of ALL of their members fairly. Given the way it has been announced I genuinely believe that the Trust was more concerned about the financial consequences of the club than they were about representing all of their members fairly. They have become too close.
As for the club......they just need to remember that tax payers money has saved them to the tune of hundreds of thousands of pounds and the least we can expect is fairness and transparency
It would have been far better had we been asked to put the unused tickets into a pool that could be used to support our fellow Daleys that have been badly impacted by Covid and due to job loss couldn't afford a ticket next season. That way at least we knew that th Trust has considered all of its members fairly. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 14:06 - Jul 25 with 1694 views | judd |
| Season Ticket Update on 13:34 - Jul 25 by dawlishdale |
Bloody hell; I've just checked, and yes, you are correct.
I hope I'm wrong, but the cynic in me fears the timing of this might be designed to prevent a rush of fans who want/need a refund for the unused tickets left over from 2019/20 in order to fund a price rise for 20/21.
Just to illustrate; an adult in the Main stand would be able to claim back £76 for the 7 unplayed games. (£65 if you omit the Bury game) Not exactly an insignificant amount.
it does seem odd to have the refund cut off date the day before next seasons prices are announced. |
Why should the Bury game be omitted? | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 14:09 - Jul 25 with 1687 views | 442Dale |
| Season Ticket Update on 13:34 - Jul 25 by dawlishdale |
Bloody hell; I've just checked, and yes, you are correct.
I hope I'm wrong, but the cynic in me fears the timing of this might be designed to prevent a rush of fans who want/need a refund for the unused tickets left over from 2019/20 in order to fund a price rise for 20/21.
Just to illustrate; an adult in the Main stand would be able to claim back £76 for the 7 unplayed games. (£65 if you omit the Bury game) Not exactly an insignificant amount.
it does seem odd to have the refund cut off date the day before next seasons prices are announced. |
Having read it again, struggling to see ANY reason for there to be a cut off date announced yet, especially when the details containing the date follow a specific mention of not being able to be certain when the tickets for key workers etc can be used:
<<“ Please note, the Community Fund will only be activated when supporters are able to attend matches at the Crown Oil Arena with no restrictions on capacity.
Should any Season Ticket holder wish to opt out of this scheme, please email office@rochdaleafc.co.uk. For logistical reasons, we ask that supporters email before Friday 14th August to allow for the planning of distributing tickets.”>>
As there is, understandably, a real uncertainty around when the ground will have no restrictions on capacity, why would there need to be a cutoff date announced, especially one next month, for the reason “to allow for the planning of distributing tickets.” That planning can’t happen until a date is known when the tickets can be used.
If supporters do make a choice in not claiming a refund and then see a change in season ticket prices where having that refund may impact their decision to buy, it would potentially impact the amount of sales. It might just be me, but this part is the bit that makes no sense amongst everything else, a lot of which is positive. | |
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