| Calm heads - Support in Adversity 08:38 - Jan 7 with 9701 views | aleanddale |
Well the wheels are off that's for sure.
quite how we can play 3 games 0-13 after back to back wins is a mystery but that's exactly where we are at.
My own slant is booing during a game is out of order. Boo at full time should you feel the need but It looks like the players need our support more than ever. We must be the most battle hardened fans out of 92 clubs so lets start to show it.
I don't know what it is but I am prepared to give Hilly this window and th remainder of the season to show he still loves the Dale - loves his job and can once again get the players to run through walls for the club.
More of the same ( last 3 games ) and we might not get 40 points!!
Come on Hilly! Come on all the supporters. We have had it much more difficult in the past lets show the club that when the chips are down and the clouds are darkest it is us the fans that are the shining light that will never give up on this wonderful football club.
Up the Dale. |  | | |  |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 18:21 - Jan 7 with 2120 views | 442Dale |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 13:45 - Jan 7 by ChaffRAFC |
I made the mistake of starting to watch the Sunderland Documentary on Netflix. A very good series but what came from it, for me at least, was that we absolutely have to get behind the team. Whether you want Keith Hill gone or you want him to stay, we have to get behind the team as much as possible. If our efforts are rewarded then brilliant, if not, then we act.
And that's a two way thing as well, the club and the manager have to realize the situation we are in and also the feeling among the fanbase. Both the club and the manager are guilty of not being sensitive to the feeling among the Dale fans. Subtle little things can become big things in situations like this. Take the Magnus Norman loan extending story by example on the official site. Yes, it may seem petty but the use of the word "delighted" only served to anger supporters and it let to a tweet that ended up exploding into an absolute barrage of hate towards the lad. It was avoidable if the club hadn't gone over the top and said "we are delighted to announce that Magnus Norman has signed an extension to his current loan deal" and instead used just a basic confirmation. The club basically added fuel to the fire. It acted as the club and manager sticking two fingers up at the supporters.
Directors giving us lip service that problems are being sorted that aren't needs to stop. Like the rubbish not being cleared. Get it sorted out and stop giving the supporters the ammo. The board have the massive responsibility of steering this ship away from the iceberg while Hill is captain of the ship and we're the band that will go down with the ship regardless.
Another idea was one James1980 alluded to and that's that the latest Hill interview came across as an honest assessment to most fans, why not make those and any positive interviews he does as a Freeview interview so that everyone can see the manager come across in a positive manner.
What we're enduring at the moment is absolute dogshit, we all know that. My own views are that Keith Hill, while not admitting to and learn from his mistakes, his really stupid and obvious mistakes, will ultimately end up destroying his own legacy but in being the best manager we've ever had, should get till the end of the season to try and turn it round. I doubt a manager coming in now will be able to assess the squad and bring in suitable replacements in this window and then there's the little issue of paying for this.
The forum will be interesting as it gives supporters and board members the opportunity to air any issues and get them ironed out and hopefully we'll walk away from it feeling a bit more reassured or at least in the mind frame to pull together and sort this out.
I'm as fed up as the next supporter with all this rubbish but if I can play a part by getting behind the team on match days then it's something we must all do in my book. |
Some great points in there. The thing is a lot of them are points that should have been addressed a very long time ago; back when we were flying on the pitch in the past. If they had been, the current situation would be nowhere near as bad, as poor results are something that any fan of Rochdale should recognise won’t ever be that far away.
These days were always coming, but the level of commitment towards avoiding them has not been what it should be. Disappointing doesn’t cover it. Predictable does. |  |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 19:08 - Jan 7 with 2046 views | SuddenLad |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 18:20 - Jan 7 by Ninco |
I don't agree.
To some people, £22 is a lot of money in this tight financial climate and you don't want to spend it watching a standard of football that you could have seen free on the local playing fields.
If you buy something in a shop, and it isn't of the standard you expect, you have the option to take it back for a refund, or to vote with your feet and go elsewhere. That's not the case at the COA as most of us opted for the reduced priced season tickets thinking that the squad we saw at the beginning of the season would be there for the season. We now have a choice of sitting through this rubbish or lose money on our season ticket.
The directors, manager and players need to remember that they are in the entertainment business and to a certain extent, I can take a loss if it's entertaining, or I can take a boring match if we get a win out of it, but I am sick of paying money to watch a match that is both boring, and loses us 3 points at home.
The only way anything will ever get done is to let the directors see that we are not happy. Those who continue to support Hill are saying to the directors that everything in the garden is rosy and you don't need to change anything. That is the kind of mentality that kept previous managers like Coleman, Barrow etc in a job a lot longer than they should have been and the same will happen with Hill. If you want him gone, you need to make it clear. |
That's a bit unreal, in all honesty. Comparing anything you've seen at COA to 'park football' is simply ridiculous.
Anyone buying a season ticket based on the 'current squad' is kidding themselves. I doubt if there is ANY club that finishes a season with EXACTLY the same squad it started with - with no transfers in or out. The primary reason for buying a season ticket is simply the fact that you want to support your team on a regular basis, throughout the season (and that you can afford the purchase).
The thing is (and always has been) that defeats happen. For some clubs more regularly than others, but there is never any guarantee that any defeats ever come with any 'entertainment factor'. Expecting or anticipating that is plain daft. If you want absolute guaranteed entertainment, the cinema might be a better option. But - just like football, you might occasionally not like what you see. Doesn't mean it's crap every time you go.
I'm sure no-one is saying that everything in the garden is rosy. Massive changes have taken place on and off the field in a very short space of time. There is plenty of apparent unhappiness, for a variety of reasons, not all based on what happens on the field or concerning the team, but the team needs our support. That's got to be the priority. More change will likely only cause more disruption. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 19:23 - Jan 7 with 2020 views | Ninco |
Thanks for telling me that as I've only been watching them for nearly 50 years, so I wouldn't have known. It's always good when someone thinks they know more about my opinions than I do.
Whatever you say, the quality of football being produced at the moment is sh1te. | | | |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 19:30 - Jan 7 with 1991 views | James1980 |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 18:20 - Jan 7 by Ninco |
I don't agree.
To some people, £22 is a lot of money in this tight financial climate and you don't want to spend it watching a standard of football that you could have seen free on the local playing fields.
If you buy something in a shop, and it isn't of the standard you expect, you have the option to take it back for a refund, or to vote with your feet and go elsewhere. That's not the case at the COA as most of us opted for the reduced priced season tickets thinking that the squad we saw at the beginning of the season would be there for the season. We now have a choice of sitting through this rubbish or lose money on our season ticket.
The directors, manager and players need to remember that they are in the entertainment business and to a certain extent, I can take a loss if it's entertaining, or I can take a boring match if we get a win out of it, but I am sick of paying money to watch a match that is both boring, and loses us 3 points at home.
The only way anything will ever get done is to let the directors see that we are not happy. Those who continue to support Hill are saying to the directors that everything in the garden is rosy and you don't need to change anything. That is the kind of mentality that kept previous managers like Coleman, Barrow etc in a job a lot longer than they should have been and the same will happen with Hill. If you want him gone, you need to make it clear. |
Am I interpreting your post incorrectly?
It seems you are saying until performances improve or Hill is sacked. We should not get behind the team in this current period of darkness. | |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 19:30 - Jan 7 with 1990 views | SuddenLad |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 19:23 - Jan 7 by Ninco |
Thanks for telling me that as I've only been watching them for nearly 50 years, so I wouldn't have known. It's always good when someone thinks they know more about my opinions than I do.
Whatever you say, the quality of football being produced at the moment is sh1te. |
No opinion carries more weight than any other. It's what it is - your opinion. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it. 57 years and counting since my first Dale game. But that doesn't make me a better supporter than anyone else either. Being as you mention it.
The last 3 games have been poor. I agree. Any comments on the previous 10 years ? | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 19:45 - Jan 7 with 1967 views | kiwidale |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 19:23 - Jan 7 by Ninco |
Thanks for telling me that as I've only been watching them for nearly 50 years, so I wouldn't have known. It's always good when someone thinks they know more about my opinions than I do.
Whatever you say, the quality of football being produced at the moment is sh1te. |
hahaha thank you Ninco your reply to Sudden lad made chuckle out loud twas a wonderful retort... no offence to anyone intended. [Post edited 7 Jan 2019 19:46]
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| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 20:00 - Jan 7 with 1939 views | DaleiLama |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 18:20 - Jan 7 by Ninco |
I don't agree.
To some people, £22 is a lot of money in this tight financial climate and you don't want to spend it watching a standard of football that you could have seen free on the local playing fields.
If you buy something in a shop, and it isn't of the standard you expect, you have the option to take it back for a refund, or to vote with your feet and go elsewhere. That's not the case at the COA as most of us opted for the reduced priced season tickets thinking that the squad we saw at the beginning of the season would be there for the season. We now have a choice of sitting through this rubbish or lose money on our season ticket.
The directors, manager and players need to remember that they are in the entertainment business and to a certain extent, I can take a loss if it's entertaining, or I can take a boring match if we get a win out of it, but I am sick of paying money to watch a match that is both boring, and loses us 3 points at home.
The only way anything will ever get done is to let the directors see that we are not happy. Those who continue to support Hill are saying to the directors that everything in the garden is rosy and you don't need to change anything. That is the kind of mentality that kept previous managers like Coleman, Barrow etc in a job a lot longer than they should have been and the same will happen with Hill. If you want him gone, you need to make it clear. |
As you didn't reply to a specific post Ninco, it's difficult to know what you were disagreeing with? You did state "The only way anything will ever get done is to let the directors see that we are not happy." Fair play to you and your opinion - I presume you will do exactly that on the 14th in that case? Because booing at a game (not accusing you btw) or complaining on a forum won't achieve anything (except maybe allowing you to get stuff off your chest). |  |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 20:35 - Jan 7 with 1874 views | ChaffRAFC |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 16:49 - Jan 7 by SuddenLad |
I'd be careful about how honest you want them to be, given some of the stories and rumours I've heard in the last 2 weeks and none of the stories concern the playing staff or manager.. |
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say the club have to tell us everything, I'm saying that they need to be a bit smarter in the way they report things and the promises they make. The two examples I've given, the wording of the Norman story and the rubbish still being there are two that were very easy to rectify but in not doing so, or doing it wrong in the first place, only served to increase the negative vibe around the place.
More injury news would be more than welcome as well! |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 20:45 - Jan 7 with 1840 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 19:08 - Jan 7 by SuddenLad |
That's a bit unreal, in all honesty. Comparing anything you've seen at COA to 'park football' is simply ridiculous.
Anyone buying a season ticket based on the 'current squad' is kidding themselves. I doubt if there is ANY club that finishes a season with EXACTLY the same squad it started with - with no transfers in or out. The primary reason for buying a season ticket is simply the fact that you want to support your team on a regular basis, throughout the season (and that you can afford the purchase).
The thing is (and always has been) that defeats happen. For some clubs more regularly than others, but there is never any guarantee that any defeats ever come with any 'entertainment factor'. Expecting or anticipating that is plain daft. If you want absolute guaranteed entertainment, the cinema might be a better option. But - just like football, you might occasionally not like what you see. Doesn't mean it's crap every time you go.
I'm sure no-one is saying that everything in the garden is rosy. Massive changes have taken place on and off the field in a very short space of time. There is plenty of apparent unhappiness, for a variety of reasons, not all based on what happens on the field or concerning the team, but the team needs our support. That's got to be the priority. More change will likely only cause more disruption. |
I Go to support my local team, I also want to see skill, effort and yes be entertained. I don’t want to come away feeling deflated and angry . I don’t get the references to how good it has been, and how we won 4 games ago. Decent players have been moved on, and we are getting thrashed , it wasn’t as bad as this last season at any time |  |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 00:47 - Jan 8 with 1679 views | sweetcorn |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 20:45 - Jan 7 by rochdaleriddler |
I Go to support my local team, I also want to see skill, effort and yes be entertained. I don’t want to come away feeling deflated and angry . I don’t get the references to how good it has been, and how we won 4 games ago. Decent players have been moved on, and we are getting thrashed , it wasn’t as bad as this last season at any time |
Last season was worse for me. We went 6/7 games without winning a few times if i remember rightly. |  |
| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 07:18 - Jan 8 with 1584 views | aleanddale |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 18:20 - Jan 7 by Ninco |
I don't agree.
To some people, £22 is a lot of money in this tight financial climate and you don't want to spend it watching a standard of football that you could have seen free on the local playing fields.
If you buy something in a shop, and it isn't of the standard you expect, you have the option to take it back for a refund, or to vote with your feet and go elsewhere. That's not the case at the COA as most of us opted for the reduced priced season tickets thinking that the squad we saw at the beginning of the season would be there for the season. We now have a choice of sitting through this rubbish or lose money on our season ticket.
The directors, manager and players need to remember that they are in the entertainment business and to a certain extent, I can take a loss if it's entertaining, or I can take a boring match if we get a win out of it, but I am sick of paying money to watch a match that is both boring, and loses us 3 points at home.
The only way anything will ever get done is to let the directors see that we are not happy. Those who continue to support Hill are saying to the directors that everything in the garden is rosy and you don't need to change anything. That is the kind of mentality that kept previous managers like Coleman, Barrow etc in a job a lot longer than they should have been and the same will happen with Hill. If you want him gone, you need to make it clear. |
Some parts of your final paragraph I agree with Ninco.
Yes of course make your feelings clear to the board if you are unhappy just not during the 90 minutes of the game.
before / more likely after or at the upcoming meeting is the perfect chance for any concerned fan.
I am concerned of course. The last 3 games have come as a huge shock / wake up call.
We have 30 points and unless we recruit well in the next 3 weeks from what I have seen on the pitch in the last 3 games we might struggle to get to 40 by the end of the season. This would not stop me from supporting the club and some answers to the fire sale and the alarming change of mood within the club would be welcome.
The new board have a LOT of work to do. It would be good if we could see this starting ASAP. | | | |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 11:00 - Jan 8 with 1465 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 00:47 - Jan 8 by sweetcorn |
Last season was worse for me. We went 6/7 games without winning a few times if i remember rightly. |
Not 3 confidence sapping hammerings in a row, and we didn’t ship that many goals | |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 11:13 - Jan 8 with 1443 views | DaleiLama |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 11:00 - Jan 8 by rochdaleriddler |
Not 3 confidence sapping hammerings in a row, and we didn’t ship that many goals |
You are right of course, but we had to climb out of a much deeper hole. It's 6 of 1 or half a dozen of the other for me. It requires Hilly to think out of the box again to achieve some sort of reset to catalyse a reversal in fortunes. Someone mentioned a 5-3-2 the other day. Maybe we need to try that again and try to grit out a 0-0 at P'boro just to stop the rot? The challenge we face is fascinating and depressing in equal measures. | |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 11:29 - Jan 8 with 1406 views | D_Alien |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 11:13 - Jan 8 by DaleiLama |
You are right of course, but we had to climb out of a much deeper hole. It's 6 of 1 or half a dozen of the other for me. It requires Hilly to think out of the box again to achieve some sort of reset to catalyse a reversal in fortunes. Someone mentioned a 5-3-2 the other day. Maybe we need to try that again and try to grit out a 0-0 at P'boro just to stop the rot? The challenge we face is fascinating and depressing in equal measures. |
It was i, and seems beyond obvious that drafting McNulty into a back five is the first step - indeed the only step we currently have - to regain some measure of defensive stability. It worked last season. Then take it from there. There's tonight's fixture first, but it's a very different type of game |  |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:18 - Jan 8 with 1356 views | 49thseason |
There is reason McNulty hasn't featured much, and to play with a back five you need two wingbacks who are capable of getting up and down the pitch and crossing a ball, you also need the likes of Inman to help out the wingbacks if they get caught out up the pitch, none of this is possible given the curent squad. So , we play a sort of 433 or a 442 but without a target man capable of holding the ball or of bringing others into play, mainly because the preferred goalkeeper insists on booting the ball 3 miles high in the hope it will land on the head of a player in a blue shirt, quite what he thinks anyone can do with a ball dropping vertically is a mystery, its a defenders gift., but still.......
Most teams have figured out that setting off quickly and getting into our faces quickly puts us on the back foot and we aren't techically good enough or confident enough to play around them so inevitably we get penned into out own half and under pressure. That leads to giving away free kicks, and as we all know, we can't defend set pieces.
In short we dont have the players to play the 532 the system, or for that matter, much of any other system. Hill has a penchant for small, short, lightweight players in a division that for the most part is the land of giants, we lack size, weight, athleticism, and power and get punished when confronted by teams that have recognised the fact. |  | | |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:23 - Jan 8 with 1336 views | DaleiLama |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:18 - Jan 8 by 49thseason |
There is reason McNulty hasn't featured much, and to play with a back five you need two wingbacks who are capable of getting up and down the pitch and crossing a ball, you also need the likes of Inman to help out the wingbacks if they get caught out up the pitch, none of this is possible given the curent squad. So , we play a sort of 433 or a 442 but without a target man capable of holding the ball or of bringing others into play, mainly because the preferred goalkeeper insists on booting the ball 3 miles high in the hope it will land on the head of a player in a blue shirt, quite what he thinks anyone can do with a ball dropping vertically is a mystery, its a defenders gift., but still.......
Most teams have figured out that setting off quickly and getting into our faces quickly puts us on the back foot and we aren't techically good enough or confident enough to play around them so inevitably we get penned into out own half and under pressure. That leads to giving away free kicks, and as we all know, we can't defend set pieces.
In short we dont have the players to play the 532 the system, or for that matter, much of any other system. Hill has a penchant for small, short, lightweight players in a division that for the most part is the land of giants, we lack size, weight, athleticism, and power and get punished when confronted by teams that have recognised the fact. |
After shipping 13 goals in 3 games, I think we need to try forgetting all about wing backs and go back to old fashioned full backs. Staying fully back for 90 minutes. Let's see if that works, cos what we are doing now isn't even coming close to stopping opponents scoring. It will be boring as hell to watch but better than another drubbing and going into freefall. | |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:28 - Jan 8 with 1319 views | James1980 |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:18 - Jan 8 by 49thseason |
There is reason McNulty hasn't featured much, and to play with a back five you need two wingbacks who are capable of getting up and down the pitch and crossing a ball, you also need the likes of Inman to help out the wingbacks if they get caught out up the pitch, none of this is possible given the curent squad. So , we play a sort of 433 or a 442 but without a target man capable of holding the ball or of bringing others into play, mainly because the preferred goalkeeper insists on booting the ball 3 miles high in the hope it will land on the head of a player in a blue shirt, quite what he thinks anyone can do with a ball dropping vertically is a mystery, its a defenders gift., but still.......
Most teams have figured out that setting off quickly and getting into our faces quickly puts us on the back foot and we aren't techically good enough or confident enough to play around them so inevitably we get penned into out own half and under pressure. That leads to giving away free kicks, and as we all know, we can't defend set pieces.
In short we dont have the players to play the 532 the system, or for that matter, much of any other system. Hill has a penchant for small, short, lightweight players in a division that for the most part is the land of giants, we lack size, weight, athleticism, and power and get punished when confronted by teams that have recognised the fact. |
I said on Saturday Burton's Players looked to have about 1/2 stone of muscle on average more than Dale's. Although it might have been an optical illusion due to kit colour. It does also appear our players struggle when being hunted down by more than one opposition player. Someone said one major issue is the lack of options players have. | |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:31 - Jan 8 with 1312 views | cadmonkey |
Would like to see MJ in front of the back 4 to make us more solid in a Keith Keane type role (minus the red cards)and use McNulty or Nkgosi (sp) at CB instead of MJ |  | | |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:47 - Jan 8 with 1257 views | judd |
I think we should use 2 keepers at once. |  |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:56 - Jan 8 with 1230 views | cadmonkey |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:47 - Jan 8 by judd |
I think we should use 2 keepers at once. |
Think we would still struggle with our 2 though | | | |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 13:15 - Jan 8 with 1195 views | rochdale_ranger |
I agree “Park team” is inappropriate I would liken our defence to that of a pub team the way the Burton forwards walked through it. |  | | |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 13:18 - Jan 8 with 1184 views | D_Alien |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:18 - Jan 8 by 49thseason |
There is reason McNulty hasn't featured much, and to play with a back five you need two wingbacks who are capable of getting up and down the pitch and crossing a ball, you also need the likes of Inman to help out the wingbacks if they get caught out up the pitch, none of this is possible given the curent squad. So , we play a sort of 433 or a 442 but without a target man capable of holding the ball or of bringing others into play, mainly because the preferred goalkeeper insists on booting the ball 3 miles high in the hope it will land on the head of a player in a blue shirt, quite what he thinks anyone can do with a ball dropping vertically is a mystery, its a defenders gift., but still.......
Most teams have figured out that setting off quickly and getting into our faces quickly puts us on the back foot and we aren't techically good enough or confident enough to play around them so inevitably we get penned into out own half and under pressure. That leads to giving away free kicks, and as we all know, we can't defend set pieces.
In short we dont have the players to play the 532 the system, or for that matter, much of any other system. Hill has a penchant for small, short, lightweight players in a division that for the most part is the land of giants, we lack size, weight, athleticism, and power and get punished when confronted by teams that have recognised the fact. |
I'd disagree we don't have the players to play 532
With a back five of:
Rafferty MJW McNulty Delaney Ntlhe
we have virtually the same personnel (MJW for McGahey) as successfully played that system last year, or have you forgotten? How do you think we found the stability to make 'the great escape'?
Add:
Holden Camps Rathbone
Hendo Done
and play them for a few games. Adshead/Morley to come on too - plus we'll have others coming in during the window. But first things first | |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 13:21 - Jan 8 with 1165 views | wimborne_dale |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 12:23 - Jan 8 by DaleiLama |
After shipping 13 goals in 3 games, I think we need to try forgetting all about wing backs and go back to old fashioned full backs. Staying fully back for 90 minutes. Let's see if that works, cos what we are doing now isn't even coming close to stopping opponents scoring. It will be boring as hell to watch but better than another drubbing and going into freefall. |
How about going 2-3-5 as illustrated in the Ladybird Book of Football?
(Is that really how it was all those years ago?) |  |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 13:47 - Jan 8 with 1097 views | James1980 |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 13:21 - Jan 8 by wimborne_dale |
How about going 2-3-5 as illustrated in the Ladybird Book of Football?
(Is that really how it was all those years ago?) |
Pyramid or Danubian school | |
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| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 13:58 - Jan 8 with 1073 views | Molly |
| Calm heads - Support in Adversity on 13:21 - Jan 8 by wimborne_dale |
How about going 2-3-5 as illustrated in the Ladybird Book of Football?
(Is that really how it was all those years ago?) |
It certainly was.
Left full back
Right full back
Left Half
Centre Half
Right Half
Left Wing
Inside Left
Centre Forward
Inside Right
Right Wing.
Simples | | | |
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