| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers 04:31 - Apr 12 with 3411 views | QPR_ARG |
I know I'm starting to become a very annoying anti-SWP poster (if I'm not already) but I just thought of one thing that made me go look into the numbers and see if the impression I'm under is too far off the mark or not.
My impression, and I told Ron (QPRnet), Finney and Clive on Twitter is that we are a better team WITHOUT Shaun Wright-Phillips and that the start of the solution for us would be to drop him. And I've been saying this way before he was dropped. I got as far as to say that the only chance we had to survive was to drop him (Finney is my witness!)
I think there is much more than just numbers to back up this "theory" of mine, but these facts sure put some light on this matter.
SWP started 24 matches for QPR.
He didn't start the first 3 of the season (he was at City), he didn't start the last 5 and he didn't play away at Swansea.
QPR have won 8 matches this season.
4 of those in the 9 matches SWP didn't start.
The other 4 in the 24 matches SWP started/played at least 45 mins.
12 points in 9 matches without him (1.33 point average)
19 points in 24 matches with him (0.79 point average)
I know we are all very happy with the result from last night and it's not my intention to point my finger at the things that went wrong for us this season. I just thought about this and wanted to share these numbers with you.
And I know about the many variables that affect football matches and their results, but after I gave SWP the benefit of the doubt for at least half of those 24 starts he had, I felt we needed to replace him and I believe these numbers don't lie.
I repeat I never faulted SWP for lack of effort because it is obvious he tries his best. And I always say that maybe this is a case of "his best" not being good enough.
Again, nothing personal against the lad. I wish he was on double figures in goals and assists! I want nothing but the best for him and every QPR player. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 04:36 - Apr 12 with 2858 views | qprmick |
The team as a whole were hardly Barcelona in about 2/3 of our games. Yeah he is having a bad run of form but then so did the whole team for most of that time. I am sure he will come good and luckily there is not such much pressure on him at the moment. |  |
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 05:34 - Apr 12 with 2842 views | QPR_ARG |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 04:36 - Apr 12 by qprmick |
The team as a whole were hardly Barcelona in about 2/3 of our games. Yeah he is having a bad run of form but then so did the whole team for most of that time. I am sure he will come good and luckily there is not such much pressure on him at the moment. |
I'm not asking the team to play like Barcelona.
We're not playing like Barcelona now, either. | | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 06:19 - Apr 12 with 2827 views | JHoop |
'The only chance we had to survive was to drop him' is a bit of a harsh statement! I agree that he has not been anywhere near his best but I'm not sure the above can really be justified!?
This is of course my own opinion, but should we not be a bit more positive about our team after last nights victory? We've had plenty of time to slate our team and various players but this is not one of those times. I for one was pleased to see SWP coming on for the last few minutes. |  | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 08:08 - Apr 12 with 2749 views | DylanP |
Honestly, I think those numbers are meaningless. However, I agree that SWP has had his chance and has not been able to take it. We look like a worse team when he plays because he has no idea where the goal is and couldn't hit the side of a barn, let alone the back of the net. All the speed and guile in the world are worth nothing if you can't shoot straight and can be shrugged off the ball by a fluffy kitten. |  |
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 08:45 - Apr 12 with 2697 views | Jamie |
We've just had a great win and you still want to continue your campaign against Wright-Phillips?
Give it up. | | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 09:25 - Apr 12 with 2660 views | adhoc_qpr |
His shooting has become comically bad, but i could enjoy it last night as we already had the game won!
Why we tried the 'Teddy Sheringham' corner routine with SWP on the end of it is a mystery - he clearly must shoot better in training...
Take out 3 mishit shots though and he was OK yesterday. | | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 09:28 - Apr 12 with 2644 views | jonno |
The bloke is a liability I'm afraid and it's no coincidence we've started getting results since he's been left out of the side. |  | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 09:31 - Apr 12 with 2638 views | N12Hoop |
I think he'll come good next season with the benefit of gaining some pre-season confidence, but I also think if someone else had come on instead of him yesterday we would have hit a 4th. |  |
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 09:39 - Apr 12 with 2616 views | MelakaRanger |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 09:28 - Apr 12 by jonno |
The bloke is a liability I'm afraid and it's no coincidence we've started getting results since he's been left out of the side. |
True.
So hopefully he doesn't start again this season!
I suspect it would be better for all concerned if he moved on in the summer.
The dropping of Barton seems to have had the desired effect. He's a different man since he came back.
The dropping of SWP has had no effect on SWP but it has had a major positive impact on the teams performances and results. He has had enough time to improve but has failed to do so. Sadly, the truth seems to be that he just isn't good enough anymore. |  | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 09:40 - Apr 12 with 2614 views | KRanger |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 08:08 - Apr 12 by DylanP |
Honestly, I think those numbers are meaningless. However, I agree that SWP has had his chance and has not been able to take it. We look like a worse team when he plays because he has no idea where the goal is and couldn't hit the side of a barn, let alone the back of the net. All the speed and guile in the world are worth nothing if you can't shoot straight and can be shrugged off the ball by a fluffy kitten. |
Agree. We are definiteley a worse team when he starts. Sorry, but it's true. |  | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 09:45 - Apr 12 with 2608 views | IrishR |
I still feel he could offer us something in the future, he is a confidence player and is obviously playing with none at the moment. Till then i would use him as an impact sub. One thing i didnt like was the laughing and joking he was doing with the Man u players after the game on sunday. I want our players bleeding blue and white and taking defeat badly. | | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 09:59 - Apr 12 with 2571 views | pomanjou |
Argie,
I reckon that Hughes figured things out himself a few weeks ago and thats why he hasnt been starting him. Why witter on about it? A bit of ego massage?
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 11:56 - Apr 12 with 2511 views | kensalriser |
The manager obviously agrees, which he why he's not in the starting 11. |  |
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 12:30 - Apr 12 with 2469 views | QPR_ARG |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 06:19 - Apr 12 by JHoop |
'The only chance we had to survive was to drop him' is a bit of a harsh statement! I agree that he has not been anywhere near his best but I'm not sure the above can really be justified!?
This is of course my own opinion, but should we not be a bit more positive about our team after last nights victory? We've had plenty of time to slate our team and various players but this is not one of those times. I for one was pleased to see SWP coming on for the last few minutes. |
I am positive. And I'm not trying to ruin our good feeling from last night. I just thought about our record with and without him and went to check and I happened to check after last night's game.
For the record: I would have never booed him if I was at one of our matches. I've watched every one of our matches (bar Sunderland away) this season so I feel entitled to have this strong opinion on him. But I've nothing personal against him and I want him to do great as I want every one of our players to do great.
I looked at those numbers and felt they were incredible, that's why I posted them here.
I'm sorry if you or others felt I was being harsh, negative or unfair. It's just my opinion on that particular matter, which I think is one of the keys to understand our season. | | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 12:49 - Apr 12 with 2440 views | WestbourneR |
SWP's first touch is sub League One standard. Literally the worst I have ever seen in the Prem and it's root of all his problems.
His pace used to compensate but it doesn't anymore. I'd be surprised if he has a future at this level. |  |
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 12:52 - Apr 12 with 2432 views | tinhead |
I think the problem with him is he's wearing boots that are too small for his feet.
If we got him a bigger pair (with a wider front section) I doubt he'd be slicing so many balls into row Z.  |  |
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 13:02 - Apr 12 with 2410 views | stansleftfoot |
SWP- if one looks back at the SWP career, the failings he currently displays have always been there, failure to deliver a final ball and consistent failure in hitting the target are no more than i would have expected having seen it at Chelsea, Man C and for England.
The burst of speed and trickery has often deceived many judges, SWP ultimately gets found out. A 14 year career starts with him being released by Nottingham Forest and is followed up by making 244 league appearances with 6 seasons in the First and Second Divisions.
A poor signing, SWP has become little more than a willing water carrier, and he seems to have lost the appetite to even display the pace and willingness to beat his man that once made him a player with potential.
That potential has never come to fruition and that is indicated by a career appearance figure of 244 games in 14 years: just over 17 games a season many of which he has been substituted.
For me SWP is a Joe Cole type player, all promise and no action, seems to me he's been sussed again and Jamie Mackie offers too much to compete with....sums it up really.
I believe some peoples expectations where misplaced and if one looks at the facts and his performances, SWP has often been out of his depth and The Premiership in 2012 is a long way from his comfort zone. | | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 14:09 - Apr 12 with 2356 views | QPR_ARG |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 09:59 - Apr 12 by pomanjou |
Argie,
I reckon that Hughes figured things out himself a few weeks ago and thats why he hasnt been starting him. Why witter on about it? A bit of ego massage?
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Oh, come on, mate!
We all talk about our favourite formations/tactics/players here. And this has been a subject I have always had an interest in discussing.
Because just as I feel one player can turn a good or very good team into a great team (Messi at Barcelona, Adel last season for us), I also feel one player can have the potential to make an average team look worse.
Me coming here to say SWP is not good enough for our team is nothing more than a cathartic exercise that I need. Can't keep those things in my chest. I'm sorry.
No need no ego massage, but if you want to tell me I'm handsome and smart, just go for it!  | | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 14:14 - Apr 12 with 2342 views | jonno |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 13:02 - Apr 12 by stansleftfoot |
SWP- if one looks back at the SWP career, the failings he currently displays have always been there, failure to deliver a final ball and consistent failure in hitting the target are no more than i would have expected having seen it at Chelsea, Man C and for England.
The burst of speed and trickery has often deceived many judges, SWP ultimately gets found out. A 14 year career starts with him being released by Nottingham Forest and is followed up by making 244 league appearances with 6 seasons in the First and Second Divisions.
A poor signing, SWP has become little more than a willing water carrier, and he seems to have lost the appetite to even display the pace and willingness to beat his man that once made him a player with potential.
That potential has never come to fruition and that is indicated by a career appearance figure of 244 games in 14 years: just over 17 games a season many of which he has been substituted.
For me SWP is a Joe Cole type player, all promise and no action, seems to me he's been sussed again and Jamie Mackie offers too much to compete with....sums it up really.
I believe some peoples expectations where misplaced and if one looks at the facts and his performances, SWP has often been out of his depth and The Premiership in 2012 is a long way from his comfort zone. |
Spot on. | | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 14:57 - Apr 12 with 2312 views | N12Hoop |
I, like many others, was really excited when we signed him, probably more so about him then anyone else during that batch of transfers. However, given that I didn;t really follow the Premiership when we were in the lower divisions I didn't really know anything about him, just assumed he was great. But Mackie, who I didn't really rate as Prem quality, seems to have benefitted because he has come back into the team and really caused problems for teams through sheer hardwork and a never-say-die attitude. He has been a key player these last few weeks and if you watch him he is always turning to the crowd and pumping his fists. That's what you need when you are inthe sh1t, not someone who laughs and jokes with the opposition after they have cheated their way to victory. I hope SWP comes good, but I think a summer transfer and cutting of our losses would be for the best. | |
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 14:59 - Apr 12 with 2307 views | Bluce_Ree |
I like him. I'd have persisted with him even now.
We'd be down but I'd have done it because he was actually awesome once. |  |
| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 15:04 - Apr 12 with 2299 views | TacticalR |
QPR_ARG you were right before and you are right now.
Once upon a time there was a debate about whether he was playing badly because he was not being played in the correct position. But when he was played in his preferred position on the right he was equally bad. His pace (which he still has) has hidden his shortcomings. It gives him lots of opportunities on the ball and makes it look as though he is about to do something, which he never quite does.
He shoots when he should pass, and passes when he should shoot. He doesn't seem to have any understanding with his team-mates. (If he was ever brought back into the team I would tell him to stop shooting altogether and always pass, as he would occasionally make the right decision, and his team-mates would know what to expect).
Before he was dropped we had too many confused players in the team who weren't sure what were doing (and ended up not really being creative and not really being defensive). The worst of the lot was SWP.
With SWP in the team we have been a man down, and with Barton's increasingly erratic displays we were another half a man down. So that's 9½ players before we've even started. Barton has played a lot better by not trying to do too much and cutting out his long passes. It's less but it's better. I doubt if SWP could adapt like this.
Earlier this year there was a great interview with manager/coach Sean O'Driscoll. He said:
"We never do passing drills in training. We try to give people options on the ball and the thing I'm trying to coach is for the player to pick the right option, which is what the better players do. I get scouting reports which say 'he gives the ball away too much' but I'm trying to train the scouts to ask 'was it the right ball to play?' Football's about giving the ball away — but was it the right pass at the right time? Sometimes I'm more concerned about that than I am about whether or not he completed the pass. I can't buy someone for a million quid but I want to get someone in who can see options and can take the right one. I'm in a market where I can afford a player because he's cheap but I have to know that I can develop him because he has the raw materials I can work with. Right pass, right time — that's two out of three and I can work on the rest."
http://thetwounfortunates.com/sean-odriscoll-a-primer/
I don't think O'Driscoll would be looking for SWP. |  |
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 15:18 - Apr 12 with 2277 views | QPR_ARG |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 15:04 - Apr 12 by TacticalR |
QPR_ARG you were right before and you are right now.
Once upon a time there was a debate about whether he was playing badly because he was not being played in the correct position. But when he was played in his preferred position on the right he was equally bad. His pace (which he still has) has hidden his shortcomings. It gives him lots of opportunities on the ball and makes it look as though he is about to do something, which he never quite does.
He shoots when he should pass, and passes when he should shoot. He doesn't seem to have any understanding with his team-mates. (If he was ever brought back into the team I would tell him to stop shooting altogether and always pass, as he would occasionally make the right decision, and his team-mates would know what to expect).
Before he was dropped we had too many confused players in the team who weren't sure what were doing (and ended up not really being creative and not really being defensive). The worst of the lot was SWP.
With SWP in the team we have been a man down, and with Barton's increasingly erratic displays we were another half a man down. So that's 9½ players before we've even started. Barton has played a lot better by not trying to do too much and cutting out his long passes. It's less but it's better. I doubt if SWP could adapt like this.
Earlier this year there was a great interview with manager/coach Sean O'Driscoll. He said:
"We never do passing drills in training. We try to give people options on the ball and the thing I'm trying to coach is for the player to pick the right option, which is what the better players do. I get scouting reports which say 'he gives the ball away too much' but I'm trying to train the scouts to ask 'was it the right ball to play?' Football's about giving the ball away — but was it the right pass at the right time? Sometimes I'm more concerned about that than I am about whether or not he completed the pass. I can't buy someone for a million quid but I want to get someone in who can see options and can take the right one. I'm in a market where I can afford a player because he's cheap but I have to know that I can develop him because he has the raw materials I can work with. Right pass, right time — that's two out of three and I can work on the rest."
http://thetwounfortunates.com/sean-odriscoll-a-primer/
I don't think O'Driscoll would be looking for SWP. |
Thanks for those O'Driscoll quotes.
I think what he says about players and picking their right options is what makes of Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo...players of not a lot of pace or trickery on the ball, stand out and be, in my opinion, among the best players in the world.
Messi has skills, pace, two good feet AND he always (or 99% of the time) makes the best possible decision. That's why he's got credentials to enter the debate on whether he is the best in history.
We can't/shouldn't ask of SWP to be at that level. But, and this is maybe just my personal opinion, I'd rather have a player who makes good decisions than one with a lot of pace.
That's why I don't like Di Maria, for example (apart from the fact that he is an awful diver).
To me, that can be coached. But to a certain extent and up to a certain age.
QPR, this season, had no time for that.
And by the way...the player that gets picked instead of SWP is also not on that same level of Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo or even Di Maria, but I think you'll struggle to find me a player with a bigger heart in the whole planet than Jamie Mackie.
AND he puts the ball in the back of the net too! (6 goals and 4 assists in 26 matches -only in 13 of those he completed the 90 minutes-).
Massive upgrade on SWP. MASSIVE. | | | |
| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 17:20 - Apr 12 with 2201 views | derbyhoop |
A bit harsh, even though I'm unimpressed by swp. Fact is we've stumbled across a formation that suits us better without him. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| SWP - Cold hard facts and numbers on 18:19 - Apr 12 with 2127 views | cheeseydane |
Its not a case of being right or wrong, (couldnt give a monkeys),
its a case of getting behind all the players at the most important and crucial time of the season. Its all there to play for, and for the next month or so, the players need our backing as much as possible.
Game for game, players will be praised, players will be critisced, totally natural and part of football, but constant anti player campaigns cannot do anything but harm imo, but hey, if it helps you get things off your chest, well of course, thats more important. |  |
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