| Banned for your views 11:57 - Feb 3 with 26107 views | Hayesender |
Whatever your views on gender/race/religion etc, this is absolutely terrifying that a private company can have this much power |  |
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| Banned for your views on 14:31 - Feb 8 with 2465 views | LazyFan |
| Banned for your views on 13:55 - Feb 8 by Juzzie |
A few years ago I was listening to one of those phone-in radio stations (might have even been BBC Radio London) in my car and the topic of debate was that people/companies etc who own multiple flats/homes in London that are left empty purely to use as an investment to sell later on at a higher price should pay double/treble Council Tax.
Now, and lets get this straight, I am not in favour of homes being bought up like this and left empty which both inflates the market (supply & demand) and makes it harder for people to find somewhere to live.
However, this is how capitalism works. You can't promote capitalism then complain when people are being successful off of it then try and penalise them for being successful by charging them a fee that can then be spread amongst the populace (socialism?).
It's one or the other, can't have it both ways. Well, you can ("social democracies" or "democratic socialism") but it has to be a big part of a party's manifesto and if it is, it doesn't seem to be working!
I just think people are too deeply entrenched as to whether they vote Conservative or Labour so even if, for example, the Conservative voters can see the damage being done and that Labour might be able to turn it around there's very little evidence that they will in fact vote differently. Happy to suffer rather than swallow their pride. |
You assume Starmers Labour has different policies than the Tories. It does not.
So, why should Tories vote for Starmer (who they believe may give in to Unions at some point, he won't as he's a Blairite), when they can vote Tory and force him to lean ever more to the right. The more Tories do this, the more Starmer learns right (so, they see it working).
If the Tories lose, they still win, as Starmer is a Tory.
However, there is a small risk the Unions might start applying real pressure, with strikes and removing money and so on. Unite is already gearing up for the fight. The other two big Unions are still run by leaders who cow-tow to big corps. That may change when workers see no chance from Starmer after 1.5 years.
That's the risk and the Tories can still vote for proper Tories or Tory-lite and they still win. They used to vote Liberal before, but not as Starmer is so right-wing they don't even need to do that.
So, it's not people entrenched in their politics, it's that the major parties don't offer anything different as they lust after the so-called centre ground (which is just capitalism). All the polls show that if Starmer had kept to his 10 Labour Leader pledges he would have higher poll ratings personally. But why should he care? He's going to win and then run rough shot over everyone and he's quite right wing himself. |  |
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| Banned for your views on 14:32 - Feb 8 with 2398 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Banned for your views on 13:46 - Feb 8 by connell10 |
I'd like it to be known that today I'm mainly identifying as Q.P.R fan....if we lose on Saturday I may reconsider my alignment  |
If you think jokes like this are just a bit of harmless fun (They are), QPR might send a letter and make that decision for you. That's what this thread is about. Don't lose sight of that. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Banned for your views on 14:37 - Feb 8 with 2436 views | Juzzie |
| Banned for your views on 14:31 - Feb 8 by LazyFan |
You assume Starmers Labour has different policies than the Tories. It does not.
So, why should Tories vote for Starmer (who they believe may give in to Unions at some point, he won't as he's a Blairite), when they can vote Tory and force him to lean ever more to the right. The more Tories do this, the more Starmer learns right (so, they see it working).
If the Tories lose, they still win, as Starmer is a Tory.
However, there is a small risk the Unions might start applying real pressure, with strikes and removing money and so on. Unite is already gearing up for the fight. The other two big Unions are still run by leaders who cow-tow to big corps. That may change when workers see no chance from Starmer after 1.5 years.
That's the risk and the Tories can still vote for proper Tories or Tory-lite and they still win. They used to vote Liberal before, but not as Starmer is so right-wing they don't even need to do that.
So, it's not people entrenched in their politics, it's that the major parties don't offer anything different as they lust after the so-called centre ground (which is just capitalism). All the polls show that if Starmer had kept to his 10 Labour Leader pledges he would have higher poll ratings personally. But why should he care? He's going to win and then run rough shot over everyone and he's quite right wing himself. |
I wasn't assuming anything, just giving a very high level thought.
However, you are right though that if parties don't provide a manifesto (how many people read them though?) that's worth voting for then people won't cast their vote their way and stick with what they normally do. |  | | |
| Banned for your views on 15:35 - Feb 8 with 2239 views | connell10 |
| Banned for your views on 14:32 - Feb 8 by SheffieldHoop |
If you think jokes like this are just a bit of harmless fun (They are), QPR might send a letter and make that decision for you. That's what this thread is about. Don't lose sight of that. |
Yep at the end of the day it's all bollocks ....I'll let some one else make a joke about that as I'm probably on thin ice already  |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Banned for your views on 15:36 - Feb 8 with 2233 views | LazyFan |
| Banned for your views on 14:37 - Feb 8 by Juzzie |
I wasn't assuming anything, just giving a very high level thought.
However, you are right though that if parties don't provide a manifesto (how many people read them though?) that's worth voting for then people won't cast their vote their way and stick with what they normally do. |
It's lower risk as better the devil you know.
It is also handy for capitalists as they have a win-win situation. You notice all the Big Business bods are lapping up Starmer. Now they see he's going to win, and they know he supports them over the people every time.
But of course, if someone like Corbyn got the Labour leadership, then everyone would be up in arms and roll their eyes a lot.
Yet instead of Corbyn, we have had Boris, Liz Truss, Sunak and now Starmer. And people still claim Corbyn is worse than these liars.
Who's really fibbing now? | |
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| Banned for your views on 15:37 - Feb 8 with 2228 views | Rangersw12 |
| Banned for your views on 14:31 - Feb 8 by LazyFan |
You assume Starmers Labour has different policies than the Tories. It does not.
So, why should Tories vote for Starmer (who they believe may give in to Unions at some point, he won't as he's a Blairite), when they can vote Tory and force him to lean ever more to the right. The more Tories do this, the more Starmer learns right (so, they see it working).
If the Tories lose, they still win, as Starmer is a Tory.
However, there is a small risk the Unions might start applying real pressure, with strikes and removing money and so on. Unite is already gearing up for the fight. The other two big Unions are still run by leaders who cow-tow to big corps. That may change when workers see no chance from Starmer after 1.5 years.
That's the risk and the Tories can still vote for proper Tories or Tory-lite and they still win. They used to vote Liberal before, but not as Starmer is so right-wing they don't even need to do that.
So, it's not people entrenched in their politics, it's that the major parties don't offer anything different as they lust after the so-called centre ground (which is just capitalism). All the polls show that if Starmer had kept to his 10 Labour Leader pledges he would have higher poll ratings personally. But why should he care? He's going to win and then run rough shot over everyone and he's quite right wing himself. |
Isn't this the problem with the left in a nutshell . Worst Tory government ever yet the left just eat themselves because anyone who isn't a Corbynite is tagged as a Tory .
As for Unite , awful union in my sector and just told us to take the messily pay rise after one round of negotiations |  | | |
| Banned for your views on 15:58 - Feb 8 with 2172 views | Smokey |
| Banned for your views on 12:27 - Feb 3 by kensalriser |
Bullshit. It's the complete opposite of what you think.
This is extremists trying to exploit football just like when the NF were handing out their filth outside football grounds in the 70s. The difference is that then they were a ragbag bunch of thugs and misfits, now they're organised and backed by posh people and wealthy neo-fascists. They don't believe in free speech at all, they want to whip up hatred and shut down people who don't agree with them. |
Of all the insanely depressing posts on here. This one takes no.1 spot. Such blind and viscous prejudice packing a number of completely unsupported smears into a short post
Can you justify in what way, "This is extremists trying to exploit football"?
In what way, is this remotely, "just like when the NF were handing out their filth outside football grounds in the 70s"
Can you explain how, "they want to whip up hatred and shut down people who don't agree with them"
The scary part is I think you believe what you are saying but it's based on nothing. You just haven’t thought it through and have prejudice programmed into your thinking. You can’t assess the individual case or separate it from your hatred for someone who isn’t on your political team.
There's a number of pretty bat sh t crazy posts here though
Martin Luther King wanted racism to end. He wanted people judge on content of character not colour of their skin. But some casual racism from JimtheHip and FDC who disagree with MLK and seem to find the colour of Toby Young relevant and his whiteness somehowmaking him less deserving of an opinion
What's standouts is none of the angry, hateful comments address the actual story. Instead it’s just a pile on and chuck out unsubstantiated Owen Jones sound bite smears and offensive nasty hateful comments to try and shout down a potentially reasonable argument
Lazyfan shoots off on a tangent calling this capitalism. It isn't
Also says 'state control' is for the people means being “for the people over private enterprise”which is such a painfully ignorant statement. Firstly if you just think about that statement how can that possibly be true. How on earth can state control be only for the people. I would imagine in your world you wouldn’t see Trump running the state as being “for the people over private enterprise”. You might see though the dementia addled puppet Biden’s cronyism. Such is the blind political side taking and removal of critical thinking from most minds in society
Suggest Lazyfan goes and reads up on Stalins Collectivization and the Holodomor which killed 4m Ukrainians. Or how 'state control' for the people worked out in Zimbabwe and Venezuela
This whole thread is an insight into the ill informed and dangerously misguided opinions and spiteful and hateful nature of many within our society. Lazyfan takes that to the extreme | | | |
| Banned for your views on 16:06 - Feb 8 with 2075 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Banned for your views on 15:37 - Feb 8 by Rangersw12 |
Isn't this the problem with the left in a nutshell . Worst Tory government ever yet the left just eat themselves because anyone who isn't a Corbynite is tagged as a Tory .
As for Unite , awful union in my sector and just told us to take the messily pay rise after one round of negotiations |
The only reason it's the worst Tory Government ever is because it's been the most left-wing Tory government ever. Evidenced by the sheer amount of money they've printed - https://data.spectator.co.uk/graph/money-printer-go-brrr
Starmer will beat them by positioning himself to the right of them, which is the direction he is moving in, but it's all meaningless. Will just be more of the same. Feels like the Tories actively want it to happen as well. It's all just politicking at our expense and to our detriment. No matter who gets in, we'll still be utterly doomed because of decisions taken 10-20-30 years ago, and they all know it. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Banned for your views on 19:07 - Feb 8 with 1937 views | QPR_John |
| Banned for your views on 15:36 - Feb 8 by LazyFan |
It's lower risk as better the devil you know.
It is also handy for capitalists as they have a win-win situation. You notice all the Big Business bods are lapping up Starmer. Now they see he's going to win, and they know he supports them over the people every time.
But of course, if someone like Corbyn got the Labour leadership, then everyone would be up in arms and roll their eyes a lot.
Yet instead of Corbyn, we have had Boris, Liz Truss, Sunak and now Starmer. And people still claim Corbyn is worse than these liars.
Who's really fibbing now? |
Don’t usually post in these threads but surprised you suggest Starmer is right wing and unlike Corbyn. Was Starmer right wing when a loyal member of Corbyns shadow cabinet when other members resigned. Was Starmer right wing when he campaigned for Corbyn to be PM. Just asking | | | |
| Banned for your views on 19:59 - Feb 8 with 1864 views | BucksRanger |
| Banned for your views on 19:07 - Feb 8 by QPR_John |
Don’t usually post in these threads but surprised you suggest Starmer is right wing and unlike Corbyn. Was Starmer right wing when a loyal member of Corbyns shadow cabinet when other members resigned. Was Starmer right wing when he campaigned for Corbyn to be PM. Just asking |
From my point of view, I see Starmer and Sunak as a couple of lefties. |  | | |
| Banned for your views on 20:24 - Feb 8 with 1791 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I don't get it.
You all know that Clive doesn't want political threads at the moment
You all know that he's on holidays at the moment.
You all know he doesn't have a moderator. Ever.
And you do this shĂt anyway.
At this precise moment.
Have a fuggin word with yourselves. |  |
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| Banned for your views on 21:02 - Feb 8 with 1681 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Banned for your views on 20:24 - Feb 8 by BrianMcCarthy |
I don't get it.
You all know that Clive doesn't want political threads at the moment
You all know that he's on holidays at the moment.
You all know he doesn't have a moderator. Ever.
And you do this shĂt anyway.
At this precise moment.
Have a fuggin word with yourselves. |
I don't get it.
This is a relevant topic to this forum, why shouldn't we discuss it on here? It's only divisive if you agree with it. Reassuringly, most don't. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Banned for your views on 21:21 - Feb 8 with 1677 views | Hayesender |
| Banned for your views on 20:24 - Feb 8 by BrianMcCarthy |
I don't get it.
You all know that Clive doesn't want political threads at the moment
You all know that he's on holidays at the moment.
You all know he doesn't have a moderator. Ever.
And you do this shĂt anyway.
At this precise moment.
Have a fuggin word with yourselves. |
Tbf Brian, I thought this was relevant, because at the end of the day we're all football fans here. In my ignorance, I didn't expect it to fall into a slagging match involving Palestine and the National front.
Next time I have a bright non QPR idea, I'm gonna just fck off down the pub | |
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| Banned for your views on 21:45 - Feb 8 with 1629 views | Gus_iom |
| Banned for your views on 20:24 - Feb 8 by BrianMcCarthy |
I don't get it.
You all know that Clive doesn't want political threads at the moment
You all know that he's on holidays at the moment.
You all know he doesn't have a moderator. Ever.
And you do this shĂt anyway.
At this precise moment.
Have a fuggin word with yourselves. |
This is relevant as it sets a a worrying precedent involving football fans.
We should be able to debate issues without insulting each other, though.
We don't be able to seem to, so I generally stay clear for Northern's sake, and mine if I'm going to be honest. | | | |
| Banned for your views on 22:30 - Feb 8 with 1519 views | connell10 |
| Banned for your views on 21:45 - Feb 8 by Gus_iom |
This is relevant as it sets a a worrying precedent involving football fans.
We should be able to debate issues without insulting each other, though.
We don't be able to seem to, so I generally stay clear for Northern's sake, and mine if I'm going to be honest. |
Just do what I do mate , don't take the political stuff to seriously and just make light of it . | |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Banned for your views on 22:36 - Feb 8 with 1506 views | Gus_iom |
| Banned for your views on 22:30 - Feb 8 by connell10 |
Just do what I do mate , don't take the political stuff to seriously and just make light of it . |
If I engage, I might get wound up, so I stay clear.
Shout all I want, I'm not going to change anyone's mind. | | | |
| Banned for your views on 22:39 - Feb 8 with 1492 views | Sonic_Hoop |
I know a couple of the people who, along with Toby Young, set up this and a couple of other "Libertarian" groups.
It's the opposite of "free speech". They want the views of only academics employed at Universities to be allowed to say and teach what they like. That could be anything from the Nazis were right to blacks are inferior. Based, not on academic rigour, but simply on their status.
They work to shut down views they oppose, infiltrating Trade Unions, Community groups, local organisations etc and redirecting funding.
They are virulently pro Israel, you'll never see them defend a Pro Palestinian. academic.
Some of the most unpleasant individuals I've ever encountered. |  | | |
| Banned for your views on 22:52 - Feb 8 with 1449 views | RfromItaly |
I completely agree with Toby. This is an important issue & we should avoid any petty local rivalries. As football fans, we should stand together against the right of bodies like the Premier League to police our views and ban us for them. |  |
| Author of book about Venice, and football articles including personal QPR interviews with Bowles and Marsh. See website: www.dstandish.com |
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| Banned for your views on 22:52 - Feb 8 with 1448 views | Gus_iom |
| Banned for your views on 22:39 - Feb 8 by Sonic_Hoop |
I know a couple of the people who, along with Toby Young, set up this and a couple of other "Libertarian" groups.
It's the opposite of "free speech". They want the views of only academics employed at Universities to be allowed to say and teach what they like. That could be anything from the Nazis were right to blacks are inferior. Based, not on academic rigour, but simply on their status.
They work to shut down views they oppose, infiltrating Trade Unions, Community groups, local organisations etc and redirecting funding.
They are virulently pro Israel, you'll never see them defend a Pro Palestinian. academic.
Some of the most unpleasant individuals I've ever encountered. |
It's not a dichotomy to dislike Toby Young but to think that people shouldn't be banned from watching football because they express strong views outside the football environment, though. | | | |
| Banned for your views on 22:53 - Feb 8 with 1446 views | Gus_iom |
| Banned for your views on 22:52 - Feb 8 by Gus_iom |
It's not a dichotomy to dislike Toby Young but to think that people shouldn't be banned from watching football because they express strong views outside the football environment, though. |
Said I wouldn't....I'm outta here | | | |
| Banned for your views on 22:54 - Feb 8 with 1445 views | ChrisNW6 |
| Banned for your views on 22:30 - Feb 8 by connell10 |
Just do what I do mate , don't take the political stuff to seriously and just make light of it . |
Have you seen some of the vile stuff she was posting on twitter on a daily basis. She put herself in the firing line and it got so bad the police interviewed her under caution. Why didn't Toby Young give all the facts, clickbait. | | | |
| Banned for your views on 22:58 - Feb 8 with 1440 views | johncharles |
Toby Young ? Have a look at his track record everyone before this goes any further |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Banned for your views on 23:22 - Feb 8 with 1397 views | Sonic_Hoop |
| Banned for your views on 22:52 - Feb 8 by Gus_iom |
It's not a dichotomy to dislike Toby Young but to think that people shouldn't be banned from watching football because they express strong views outside the football environment, though. |
It isn't. But the idea that they give a monkey's about football is laughable. | | | |
| Banned for your views on 23:33 - Feb 8 with 1375 views | SydneyRs |
| Banned for your views on 19:07 - Feb 8 by QPR_John |
Don’t usually post in these threads but surprised you suggest Starmer is right wing and unlike Corbyn. Was Starmer right wing when a loyal member of Corbyns shadow cabinet when other members resigned. Was Starmer right wing when he campaigned for Corbyn to be PM. Just asking |
Starmer is not left wing. In fact there hasn't been an actual left wing government in the UK since the 1970s. Like Blair before him, he's smart enough to realise that the only way to win these days with a hugely biased media is to be tory lite.
Right now all he has to do is sit by and watch the worst, most incompetent government of my lifetime (probably of all time) implode and eat itself. Then he'll have the keys.
What will change? Well maybe there may be at least a whiff of competence and compassion for people. Maybe they will stop trying to blame every single problem on immigration and actually work to improve the structural failings that are the actual reason for most of it. Meanwhile, Murdoch's minions in the media will be sniping away looking to get the tories back in next time.
The comment above about the current tory government being too left wing. Wow. Just wow  | | | |
| Banned for your views on 23:39 - Feb 8 with 1369 views | LazyFan |
| Banned for your views on 15:37 - Feb 8 by Rangersw12 |
Isn't this the problem with the left in a nutshell . Worst Tory government ever yet the left just eat themselves because anyone who isn't a Corbynite is tagged as a Tory .
As for Unite , awful union in my sector and just told us to take the messily pay rise after one round of negotiations |
Imagine this concept, they may not actually be for the workers and more interested in Big Business. I don't see the difference between One Nation Tories and Blairites. There is no difference; they are both pro-big business at the expense of workers.
Even Starmer says it's okay to call him a conservative. So, even he admits he's a Tory. I have more respect for the Tories as at least I can understand their point of view and their principled stand on ensuring their party continues to be on the right. But Starmer's mission seems to be to drag the only major worker's party to the right. And this is the real point of Starmer, not the government but to destroy the left. It won't work and he is going to be, as people will see a worse liar than Boris.
If your union is not doing it for you, then change their leaders. If you cannot do that, you can change Unions. If you cannot do that, then you can leave. If they don't deliver value, don't pay the subs. And tell em why when you leave and all your co-workers. | |
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