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How pleasing to see GA ditch the passing backwards and sideways and be more direct.Some May call it long ball but it suits our boys much more.If we are going to lose the ball better to do it in their half than ours.Great performance,LR was rocking.
I wanted Rangers to win as much as the next man, and yesterday the man next to me in SA was Kevin Gallen. I cheered and roared at the end and loved the commitment and passion, had the best day in yonks and the best beer after. But, and it is a pivotal but, I don't want to watch thud and blunder football every week. Long throws from a short full back, head tennis, Gary Owens to chase, argy bargy and shameless shithousing. Nah, not for me, happy to put up with it for as long as it takes to keep us up, but give me Ezes' goal away at Stoke every now and then please. We aint going to win any trophies, so I have to enjoy the football occasionally.
Sure Eze scored a worldy for Ainsworth at Wycombe, keep the faith fella.
I'm glad we stopped with the suicidal passing around the back, I'm delighted with and proud of the effort and teamwork and relieved with the result. That should be us safe now.
But we only completed 124 passes (one very forty seconds!), we feigned injury constantly, started needless arguments and all the other crap that we constantly berate Preston for. That's not football, imho, or anything related to football. And I fully understand and respect that many of us will think differently.
As Simmo says, maybe it was a case of 'needs must', and maybe it was a one-off. Maybe also the return of Chair and Willock will see us play a bit more. Only time will tell, so no point getting overly worried just yet.
See where you're coming from Brian, but Choudhary was in (both) referee's ears from minute 1 to minute 99 (That includes the 2 after the final whistle).
As Clive has said before, what are we supposed to do, stand there mumbling "Tut, tut that's bad form old boy"
As you imply, we currently don't have the players to play the beautiful game, so I would much rather see Dozzell putting tackles in, yes getting booked and generally being a pain - SO much more effective than playing 50 perfect sideways passes.
I remember the long thread we had after Barnsley had done their scorched earth tactics against us in the lockdown Dutch...
And yesterday did remind me of that. Don't get me wrong I cheered it to the rafters and even cuddled Finney after, but I do worry that long term we turn into some kind of Wimbledon tribute act. I am old enough to remember' the Rangers way' and it weren't that.
I suppose it's getting the balance right. This and the back end of last season we have been soft as shite, and dare I say it boring to watch. Trying to knock the ball around is fine, but you need a couple in their to do the nasty stuff, like tackling! It's no surprise that teams who have a great central midfielder, ie Zidane or Wilkins always had a less technical player next to them Dechamps or Holloway/Barker.
Hopefully GA will get the balance right next season, as while I had become sick to death of watching Dickie to Dunne, back to Dickie etc etc, I cant sit and watch hoof ball either. For the next couple of months needs must though.
Lovely debate, but it'd probably be wise to not put too much stock in a single performance by a team shorn of many of it's better players against a team that cost tens of millions to assemble with a brand new manager.
Last December the first post on here after the Preston game was about how Critchley was the man, he'd made big changes, it was a great win, he'd solved a few problems already. Said it then and say it now: we're all far too influenced by results at times to analyse a performance. Lose - we were awful. Win, we were great. There was almost no difference to me between Preston and Cardiff games except Dunne got one in with his knee, but the reaction to them was poles apart.
Yes we played more safety first yesterday, although first half I thought we played very intelligently with the ball too. But the biggest difference, and one which we should keep whether we play from the back sometimes (nothing wrong with that) or play more direct other times (nothing wrong with that), was the pressing, the desire to win the ball, to snap into tackles, to chase back, to harry. That was why we won yesterday. Some of the timewasting was unnecessary I felt, some was genuine. I hope we're not going to become that sort of side that over-relies on 'gamesmanship', but we desperately needed a win, however it came about. As Clive said, we can worry about nuance later.
The key for yesterday was to keep the ball out of our half at any cost and off you could not punt it forwards put it out to touch and reset positionally, and it was the reason why Watford never laid a glove on us and why we dominated the 1st half so much.
Needs must, but it won't be a sustainable way to play in the medium / long term and ultimately Gareth will have to find a balance between attritional safety first football and more progressive technical football if we are to sustain the club by developing players to sell to the higher leagues
This is spot on. Staying up at all costs is absolutely key short term. But the bigger picture is the business model and self-sustainability. And that means producing “premier league capable” players vs solid championship players.
Brian I think the problem we have, is that the rest of the Championship had sussed us out and we are seen as a soft team to score against. Yesterday's tactics were born out of necessity and we desperately need a few ugly cleansheets.
Getting forward so quickly in the first was exciting to watch and we could have been 2 or 3 at HT. The team ran out of steam second half especially after Dykes went off. Let's fully judge the GA style at the end of the season, it will be interesting to see how Willock and Chair fit in.
Too early for any Preston analogies but apart from the Steff play acting I quite enjoyed the effect it HD on the Watford team.
That last line is very pertinent.
We've been there ourselves, but it looked to me like at least half that Watford team were not fully "at it" - so for me - the 'Preston' tactics were spot on.
Having said that, I think its unfair and simplistic to say that was the only reason we won.
Flying into tackles and winning 1st, 2nd, 3rd balls IS part of any style of football.
Watch Man City when they don't have the ball - they work hard as well, nothing to apologise for in that.
Of course Stef's 'shot in the back act' WAS ludicrous, especially when the challenge wasn't even a foul!
And yesterday did remind me of that. Don't get me wrong I cheered it to the rafters and even cuddled Finney after, but I do worry that long term we turn into some kind of Wimbledon tribute act. I am old enough to remember' the Rangers way' and it weren't that.
I'd be amazed if we did that. But there's scope to win a few matches like that when you're struggling against relegation and need to turn things round, plus a number of your flair players are injured. It's a bit of a perfect storm, added to the other team's shithousery.
I liked playing in their half rather than our own.
I liked us looking like we'd do anything to win a match against bigger, better players - and barely coughing up a chance, with our second choice RB playing left wing back and third choice RB making his second appearance at this level up against players apparently worth tens of millions of pounds. Kakay was against Sarr, who barely had a kick!
Three at the back, move it quicker up the pitch, manage the game. Some have been saying this since last season. It suits us better, suits the crowd, too. And it can work with our own players returning from injury too: Chair/Willock can both do the Lowe or Tim roles. Field back into mid, one of the sicknote CBs move into the third CB slot. Dykes looks so much happier in a two, too. We occupied their CBs for once - a miracle.
Not sure how anyone can be sniffy about the style when they've paid to watch us at Rotherham or at home to Luton (or anyone) during this run.
Nothing looks as good as winning feels.
The back 5 were superb I agree, interesting to see who Clive chooses from them for MOTM.
Probably (just) Sam for me, but as I say the other 4 were great!
I reckon Gaz is probably best described as a very pragmatic manager and looks to play the most appropriate set up based on the players he has available and the opponents that he has to play against. He is also fairly adept at making substitutions to respond to changes in circumstances, so Adomah for Dykes yesterday I thought worked quite well, though wasn't my first thought for the swap.
As for fitting in talent to the team - Eze absolutely flourished under Gaz at Wycombe and I think that giving confidence and guidance to young players is something he does very well. Again yesterday, he played Drewe and Kakay, clearly had been working with them a lot over the past few weeks and you can see that faith/coaching on what he wants from them worked yesterday. Won't work every week, but he has started something.
Well mate, at the moment all anyone can do is guess I suppose. Preston have been brought up a bit in this thread, and they've sold Hugill, Nugent and Robinson for a few bob. All centre forwards, so if a more direct approach for the likes of Dykes turns him into a 15 goal a season striker, then perhaps we'll able to dig ourselves out of a financial hole next season.
The more industrial approach is exactly what we need at the moment. I remember Ollie years ago going through a really bad patch and we finally beat Wigan I think 1-0 in the most scrappy, gritty and ugly way. Gareth said we need points on the board. It does us no harm, especially with some of our more technical players out to be far more direct and far uglier. Staying in this division is pretty vital so industrial suits me until we stagger over the line to stay up and then he can decide who comes and goes and what style of play we go for next season.
Right now we need to not let Blackpool beat us on Tuesday and then try to get 6+ more points to be absolutely sure now. 10 games to go, we surely have 2+ more wins in us.
I think 4 more points will be enough - certainly IF we get a draw at Blackpool and beat Birmingham, that should be enough.
IF we do that, then the trip to Wigan SHOULD yield something - then we can enjoy the last 7 games.
Certainly 4 or 6 more points looks a lot more possible than it did 24 hours ago.
Thought first half Rangers did at times play good football.
Tim had few nice back flicks. Dickie began striding out of defence, spraying cross field passes, Dykes, Martin and Lowe as a combination was effective and we were tight at the back restricting Watford to few half chances.
So tactics were spot on for our current predicament ie needed two or possibly three wins to feel secure in the league.
But was it any worse than passing along back line and back again and slowly forward and then no opportunity at the end of it - those have been the tactics and our season had stagnated big time.
Got to admit, really personally do not like the timewasting, feigning injuries, walking off the field slowly, taking an age over free kicks, corners and goal kicks.
That part of the gameplan, I am not a fan of.
But it worked. 3 minutes and 7 minutes injury time in first and second halves respectively. I think both should have been double that.. in the world cup they were actually awarding the correct injury time so often it was consistently in double figures.
But in terms of the tactics, I believe Ainsworth got it spot on as we got a crucial three points. The longer the winless run went on, the harder games would get.
Second half was stressful no doubt but however we did it, we got the job done.
As Holloway put it, when the anti PC brigade had less sway. We pulled at the nightclub, not the best looking of young ladies but we still pulled at the end of the day !!!!
Maybe its because I'm a referee, but I do urge you to look at the 90' again and time the stoppages - they are not as long as you think.
Called the 3 and 7 beforehand, so think spot on.
There is an element of what football expects as well - maybe if we are Rugby/Hockey etc and the clock is stopped for EVERY stoppage including goal celebrations, players being cautioned etc, but we're not, so I think 10 minutes added (Played nearly 8 2nd half btw because of one of our 'injuries') was right yesterday.
the rest of the league is full of shy yte housing teams. sitting down to time waste, non existant head injuries to time waste, up in the ref's face time and again with little punishment if at all...... so why shouldnt we?
The time to play to football rules has long gone, and this season we need to do exactly what we did yesterday, and i'd support them doing it time and again in this league rather that the insipid tobletone football of the last season or 2.
if we'd have played fleetwood playing like we did yesterday, we wouldnt have lost the game and been £100,000k+ better off!
All credit to the manager and the team! Get at em!
For me, the most important thing from yesterday was the togetherness between the whole team. For the first time in a long time, maybe since last year, I saw and felt the unity and willingness to fight for each other. Tactics...tictacs... immaterial right now in our position.
Not sure what that 'typical NorthernR' paragraph is all about because I actually agree with everything else in your post.
I mean the negativity around. We must play football the "right way" next season. I think you are framing it the wrong way. But instead the club with its limited budget needs to play football in the way that gives it the highest chance of success. I believe you need to be more practical about our situation
I say the key criteria for assessing what is most important is which version achieves results. And as Ainsworth proved at Wycombe, as Simeone proved with Athleti and as this season Brentford are proving in the Prem. If you play direct unpure football you might be surprised with what you can achieve.
With Paal, Laird, Willock and Chair in the side. The pretty side when the ball is in the right areas will be prettier than they were with some of those who played yesterday
But I want to aim higher than just finishing 16th every year playing football for snobby purists. With our budget I say we have no choice but to be pragmatists
We beat Watford in August with an inform Willock. With Chair, Laird and Paal playing top of their game... just!!
You take them all out the side as we did yesterday we would have had little chance if we tried to play the same way. There are no certainties. Only probabilities. So we need to maximise ours and I think we need to be realistic. If we want promotion from this league our probability of doing that playing a more pure form of the game is lower than a less pure form.
I think that because if Willock or Chair get injured or drop off in form, as we have seen our chances of winning and succeeding drop significantly. I think it does no good to romanticise finishing mid table at best but playing the "right way" because we don't have the budget to sustain that level as injuries, fatigue or form affect our first 11. We don’t have the budget for the squad depth needed for the purer form
So I'm saying let's back then manager to take the route that gives us the highest probability of success. If there's means they have analysed the stats and its decided to better for Dunne to stick his boot through it rather than trying to risk finding a 5 yard pass to create a pretty triangle that achieves little but risks them having that pass intercepted and the opposition having a simple chance to score from that. Well then so be it
I would encourage you to back the manager in employing tactics that on the balance of probabilities, they see as giving the club the best chance of success. Which with time May be more than we could otherwise have expected
Again Sakura a lengthy passage with no mention of introducing some creativity into the process or being thought about. All too much thinking about the right way or the wrong way.
Predictable football gets you predictable outcomes and easy to stop.
Todays football environment never gives managers time to build teams. So guns ho out the traps give you a fair chance of gaining some breathing space.
Again Sakura a lengthy passage with no mention of introducing some creativity into the process or being thought about. All too much thinking about the right way or the wrong way.
Predictable football gets you predictable outcomes and easy to stop.
Todays football environment never gives managers time to build teams. So guns ho out the traps give you a fair chance of gaining some breathing space.
[Post edited 12 Mar 2023 15:24]
“when the ball is in the right areas”
Sorry the post wasn’t long enough for you already mate… could have added a few more paragraphs on expanding on that especially for your benefit…
I mean the negativity around. We must play football the "right way" next season. I think you are framing it the wrong way. But instead the club with its limited budget needs to play football in the way that gives it the highest chance of success. I believe you need to be more practical about our situation
I say the key criteria for assessing what is most important is which version achieves results. And as Ainsworth proved at Wycombe, as Simeone proved with Athleti and as this season Brentford are proving in the Prem. If you play direct unpure football you might be surprised with what you can achieve.
With Paal, Laird, Willock and Chair in the side. The pretty side when the ball is in the right areas will be prettier than they were with some of those who played yesterday
But I want to aim higher than just finishing 16th every year playing football for snobby purists. With our budget I say we have no choice but to be pragmatists
We beat Watford in August with an inform Willock. With Chair, Laird and Paal playing top of their game... just!!
You take them all out the side as we did yesterday we would have had little chance if we tried to play the same way. There are no certainties. Only probabilities. So we need to maximise ours and I think we need to be realistic. If we want promotion from this league our probability of doing that playing a more pure form of the game is lower than a less pure form.
I think that because if Willock or Chair get injured or drop off in form, as we have seen our chances of winning and succeeding drop significantly. I think it does no good to romanticise finishing mid table at best but playing the "right way" because we don't have the budget to sustain that level as injuries, fatigue or form affect our first 11. We don’t have the budget for the squad depth needed for the purer form
So I'm saying let's back then manager to take the route that gives us the highest probability of success. If there's means they have analysed the stats and its decided to better for Dunne to stick his boot through it rather than trying to risk finding a 5 yard pass to create a pretty triangle that achieves little but risks them having that pass intercepted and the opposition having a simple chance to score from that. Well then so be it
I would encourage you to back the manager in employing tactics that on the balance of probabilities, they see as giving the club the best chance of success. Which with time May be more than we could otherwise have expected
[Post edited 12 Mar 2023 15:20]
You are, not for the first time, letting your dislike of me get the better of you, putting words in my mouth I haven't said, and attributing opinions to me that I do not hold.
I do think it will wear thin if it doesn't deliver results, because QPR fans in general lose patience with direct football quicker than they do a purist-pleasing style when the results go badly. That is what happened with Olly first time around even after everything he'd done here - BostonR won't mind me mentioning this because we've kissed and made up long since but we had a ruck many years back about him saying he hoped we lost an away game at Luton because it would bring Holloway nearer to the sack, and I couldn't believe passing through midfield was so important that a QPR fan would hope QPR lost to Luton Town so a manager who was going very direct, with a very limited team at that point, would lose his job. But, after 28 defeats in 48 games or whatever it is and all that tedious passing around at the back I think wins in whatever form they come at the moment will be very welcome and you saw that in the atmosphere at the game yesterday which was all a vast improvement on anything that we've seen before for literally months now.
I have written frequently, often when we play Russell Martin's Swansea, about this nonsense and often quite snobby attitude that there is a "right way" to play football, and if you beat Martin's team playing directly then you're somehow a philistine and it's some sort of moral victory for them. "If they want to play like that that's up to them" he said in August, after losing 3-0 at home to Blackburn. I've written over and over again that I find Martin's football every bit as dire to watch as Tony Pulis'. Go back and read the season preview section on Swansea. Go back and read the match report from the away game there last season.
I have written frequently about us being too nice, too quiet, too easy to play against, with no edge. Go back and read the passage in the Sunderland match report about Luke O'Nien. How I'm sick of teams bullying referees and shithousing us out of games while we stand around and let it happen, go back and read what I wrote about Todd Cantwell refereeing the game against us at Norwich season before last. How we, whatever you think of it, desperately need a bit of that about us if we're to compete in this league - go back and read the stuff I said when Charlie Austin came back second time around.
I wrote when we hired Ainsworth that all this talk about "the QPR way" was a bit sanctimonious for a club that's been total sht for a full year now, and under Critchley was playing 4-4-2 with Sam Field right wing. That, actually, a bit of bloody pragmatism from Gareth could be just what we need - particularly as we're going to have to put a team together on a smaller wage bill next season. It's still on the front page, go and read it. "With our budget I say we have no choice but to be pragmatists" - you could literally have copied and pasted that from any number of pieces I've written recently around the accounts.
Go and read my match report from Blackburn away last season, or Hull away this, where I ranted on and and on about how fcking tedius it is to go to the other end of the country and watch us do that bloody Dickie to Dunne to Dieng to Dickie to Dunne to Dieng nonsense. In the Hull report I specifically point out how few touches our forward players got in the game, compared to our centre backs, and our desperate need to get the ball in their half more and play further up the field rather than pising about in our own box.
I agree with a lot of your post, and the one before that. You're coming at me giving it "oh you're being negative, you think this and this and this", none of which I actually do think, and then doing ten paragraphs on what I should be thinking, which I then agree with!
There are several other posters on this thread far more outspoken against yesterday's style than me, but no, as per, it's "typical NorthernR" who you come after, and on this occasion you're coming after me for something I don't think and haven't said.
I'm actually alright, you know, generally, as a person. You might find you quite enjoy a beer with me. Your agenda against me is weird at the best of times, but you're now pointing at me and saying "you think the sky is purple, you said the sky is purple, you need to get this purple sky thing out of your head" while I sit here looking at the sky thinking what the fck are you going on about now?
You are, not for the first time, letting your dislike of me get the better of you, putting words in my mouth I haven't said, and attributing opinions to me that I do not hold.
I do think it will wear thin if it doesn't deliver results, because QPR fans in general lose patience with direct football quicker than they do a purist-pleasing style when the results go badly. That is what happened with Olly first time around even after everything he'd done here - BostonR won't mind me mentioning this because we've kissed and made up long since but we had a ruck many years back about him saying he hoped we lost an away game at Luton because it would bring Holloway nearer to the sack, and I couldn't believe passing through midfield was so important that a QPR fan would hope QPR lost to Luton Town so a manager who was going very direct, with a very limited team at that point, would lose his job. But, after 28 defeats in 48 games or whatever it is and all that tedious passing around at the back I think wins in whatever form they come at the moment will be very welcome and you saw that in the atmosphere at the game yesterday which was all a vast improvement on anything that we've seen before for literally months now.
I have written frequently, often when we play Russell Martin's Swansea, about this nonsense and often quite snobby attitude that there is a "right way" to play football, and if you beat Martin's team playing directly then you're somehow a philistine and it's some sort of moral victory for them. "If they want to play like that that's up to them" he said in August, after losing 3-0 at home to Blackburn. I've written over and over again that I find Martin's football every bit as dire to watch as Tony Pulis'. Go back and read the season preview section on Swansea. Go back and read the match report from the away game there last season.
I have written frequently about us being too nice, too quiet, too easy to play against, with no edge. Go back and read the passage in the Sunderland match report about Luke O'Nien. How I'm sick of teams bullying referees and shithousing us out of games while we stand around and let it happen, go back and read what I wrote about Todd Cantwell refereeing the game against us at Norwich season before last. How we, whatever you think of it, desperately need a bit of that about us if we're to compete in this league - go back and read the stuff I said when Charlie Austin came back second time around.
I wrote when we hired Ainsworth that all this talk about "the QPR way" was a bit sanctimonious for a club that's been total sht for a full year now, and under Critchley was playing 4-4-2 with Sam Field right wing. That, actually, a bit of bloody pragmatism from Gareth could be just what we need - particularly as we're going to have to put a team together on a smaller wage bill next season. It's still on the front page, go and read it. "With our budget I say we have no choice but to be pragmatists" - you could literally have copied and pasted that from any number of pieces I've written recently around the accounts.
Go and read my match report from Blackburn away last season, or Hull away this, where I ranted on and and on about how fcking tedius it is to go to the other end of the country and watch us do that bloody Dickie to Dunne to Dieng to Dickie to Dunne to Dieng nonsense. In the Hull report I specifically point out how few touches our forward players got in the game, compared to our centre backs, and our desperate need to get the ball in their half more and play further up the field rather than pising about in our own box.
I agree with a lot of your post, and the one before that. You're coming at me giving it "oh you're being negative, you think this and this and this", none of which I actually do think, and then doing ten paragraphs on what I should be thinking, which I then agree with!
There are several other posters on this thread far more outspoken against yesterday's style than me, but no, as per, it's "typical NorthernR" who you come after, and on this occasion you're coming after me for something I don't think and haven't said.
I'm actually alright, you know, generally, as a person. You might find you quite enjoy a beer with me. Your agenda against me is weird at the best of times, but you're now pointing at me and saying "you think the sky is purple, you said the sky is purple, you need to get this purple sky thing out of your head" while I sit here looking at the sky thinking what the fck are you going on about now?
Ainsworths playing right wing. In all it’s glory ‘Binatone’ sits proudly adorned on his prominent chest. Somehow down near R Block a ball goes a stray and is going out for a gk. However Gareth has other ideas. With contorted swashbuckling and windmilling he goes after the ball trying to keep it in play when, it was always going out and smashes into the advertising hoardings. A trail of churned surface following behind him. He arrises slowly, hair forlorn as he sweeps it away from his sweat beaden face. The crowd go ape sh it.
Ainsworth knows how to play the game on the field as well as OFF it.
It seems like this is going to be an on-going discussion. Virtually everyone agrees that what took place yesterday was worth three points and was tacticallly astute. As has been pointed out, Watford and other top Championship sides are more athletic and better financially supported. Who on our side would start for Watford? Seny? Field? Lowe? Maybe nobody.
If you are going against a side that is more skilled and you want to get some points you have to find a way to break things up and change the game to something that evens the sides. Yesterday was a textbook example on how to do that.
The problem that seems to be looming is that when listening to GA it sounds like he is saying for the time being we should consider a season where we come in 10th as being successful for a club on our budget. That implies that we might need to be finding ways to "even up" a match fairly often. It isn't negative or unfair to think that not all the support is going to be behind that if that is the way things go.
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