| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:33 - Dec 13 with 5201 views | DorsetIan |
You're embarrassing. Desperately trying to underplay every aspect of Covid-19 rather than admit that you've got it wrong at every stage.
We know your idiot views. How about giving your campaign of disinformation a rest for a while? |  |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:36 - Dec 13 with 5205 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:33 - Dec 13 by DorsetIan |
You're embarrassing. Desperately trying to underplay every aspect of Covid-19 rather than admit that you've got it wrong at every stage.
We know your idiot views. How about giving your campaign of disinformation a rest for a while? |
So a massive vaccine push on a variant that evades the vaccine is logical Ian...only an idiot would defend such a practice | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:43 - Dec 13 with 5179 views | DorsetIan |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:36 - Dec 13 by saint68 |
So a massive vaccine push on a variant that evades the vaccine is logical Ian...only an idiot would defend such a practice |
You have got absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
As I've pointed out before, you can't even understand basis maths, let alone complex immunology.
Know your limitations 68. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:52 - Dec 13 with 5177 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:43 - Dec 13 by DorsetIan |
You have got absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
As I've pointed out before, you can't even understand basis maths, let alone complex immunology.
Know your limitations 68. |
The government are on an all out drive to stop omicron (that's their position)..with a vaccine drive that doesn't stop the Omicron variants transmission...and you think thats logical..unbelievable!!
They also expect there to be up to 2 million transmissions per day by mid January...that basically acknowledges that the vaccines won't work...but you carry on being abusive. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:23 - Dec 13 with 5143 views | saint901 |
The message from Government and SAGE is clear.
Omicron appears to be less susceptible to two doses of vaccine, esp the AZ version, but is claimed to be "up to 75%" mitigated when a booster is administer. Therefore a campaign to accelerate the booster take up is entirely sensible and logical.
Nobody in Gov't is claiming that the current vaccine suite is 100% effective. The claim is that by reducing the incidence of serious illness (nobody yet knows if Omicron produces more or less severe illness than the earlier versions) or the incidence of contracting the Omicron variant, we give our health system some breathing space.
Pressure on the NHS will no doubt be high regardless and yes, some routine operations will be postponed. Yes, GPs will be focused on Covid because that is the real and present danger and even basic medical triage says that this has to be dealt with first.
To misrepresent what we were told yesterday, is irresponsible. It shows a lack of respect towards people.
The fact that Omicron is present in a few hundred, perhaps a few thousand cases in the UK but has already put people in hospital is proof enough of its power. The usual incubation time for Covid in terms of catching it to being ill enough to be hospitalised is 2 to 3 weeks. From there to life threatening is 3 to 5 weeks.
Nothing will stop the spread - all we can do is slow it and reduce the impact.
A booster campaign might do that - it might not. Would you prefer we (and the Gov't) did nothing and allowed hundreds/thousands to die? | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 12:55 - Dec 13 with 5084 views | 1885_SFC |
First death from Omicron confirmed. London is awash with it. Pompey and the QA hospital is struggling with covid cases. |  |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 14:40 - Dec 13 with 5016 views | City_boy |
I tested positive yesterday. Have had 2 jabs and booster. Felt a bit shit for a few days now, but no worse than a bad cold.
I have generally been quite good when it comes to masks and precautions as well.
Interestingly, when I got PCR result back, It was the Delta variant. It doesn't actually say, but what I understand is that unless it says it is Omicron, on your PCR results, it is the Delta variant.
I am now Isolating at home. Was thinking of playing golf, as that is usually very socially distanced the way I play !
As for whether people should have/not have the vaccine - that is an argument I don't get involved with. After all it is personal choice. All I can say, is, I wouldn't want to be in the position I am now 18 months ago. [Post edited 13 Dec 2021 15:01]
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:29 - Dec 13 with 4989 views | DorsetIan |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 14:40 - Dec 13 by City_boy |
I tested positive yesterday. Have had 2 jabs and booster. Felt a bit shit for a few days now, but no worse than a bad cold.
I have generally been quite good when it comes to masks and precautions as well.
Interestingly, when I got PCR result back, It was the Delta variant. It doesn't actually say, but what I understand is that unless it says it is Omicron, on your PCR results, it is the Delta variant.
I am now Isolating at home. Was thinking of playing golf, as that is usually very socially distanced the way I play !
As for whether people should have/not have the vaccine - that is an argument I don't get involved with. After all it is personal choice. All I can say, is, I wouldn't want to be in the position I am now 18 months ago. [Post edited 13 Dec 2021 15:01]
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All the best for the next 10 days. I found the isolation to be the worst of it. Hopefully your symptom will continue to be mild. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 16:11 - Dec 13 with 4975 views | ElijahK |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:36 - Dec 13 by saint68 |
So a massive vaccine push on a variant that evades the vaccine is logical Ian...only an idiot would defend such a practice |
But the whole point of a vaccine is to protect you/adapt your immune system, to be able to cope with a certain Virus/bacteria/disease, so that it doesn’t harm or effect your systems. But as it’s a new variant it may need a new vaccine seeing that the other is for the other variety, hence why you get vaccines for multiple things, and don’t just get one big one that you never have again. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 16:15 - Dec 13 with 4971 views | ElijahK |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:52 - Dec 13 by saint68 |
The government are on an all out drive to stop omicron (that's their position)..with a vaccine drive that doesn't stop the Omicron variants transmission...and you think thats logical..unbelievable!!
They also expect there to be up to 2 million transmissions per day by mid January...that basically acknowledges that the vaccines won't work...but you carry on being abusive. |
The vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting it, it just stops it from harming/majorly effecting your system, hence why there can be loads of transmissions, but very few people actually suffering/getting issues from it. For all we know there could be a type of virus that been going around for thousands of years that peoples bodies have naturally adapted into protecting, due to white blood cells being able to identify and exterminate the bacteria cells, and because of this, we don’t realise of just how many get transmitted every day as it makes 0% of a difference to us. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 17:11 - Dec 13 with 4934 views | City_boy |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 15:29 - Dec 13 by DorsetIan |
All the best for the next 10 days. I found the isolation to be the worst of it. Hopefully your symptom will continue to be mild. |
Thanks Ian.
My mate who also tested positive, got a message 2 days after his PCR result to say it was the Omicron variant.
Guessing I will get one tomorrow ?
I am feeling ok. although It's strange as I feel fine in the morning and then by around 4 pm each day I start coughing and sore throat starts. | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 17:33 - Dec 13 with 4916 views | Berber |
The same day, if it was Delta, we would have expected to see 20-30 hospital cases from the same case load, allowing for the average delta lead time from symptoms and positive test to hospitalisation. It isn't hard to do the arithmetic. |  |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 17:34 - Dec 13 with 4916 views | saint901 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 16:11 - Dec 13 by ElijahK |
But the whole point of a vaccine is to protect you/adapt your immune system, to be able to cope with a certain Virus/bacteria/disease, so that it doesn’t harm or effect your systems. But as it’s a new variant it may need a new vaccine seeing that the other is for the other variety, hence why you get vaccines for multiple things, and don’t just get one big one that you never have again. |
True that specific virus/bacteria require specific vaccines.
However, viruses (and bacteria) come in "families". My understanding is that the omicron variant is just that, a variant of the original virus. As such it shares a lot of its features with the Alpha, Beta. Delta versions.
The difference is in the "spike protein". A virus uses these to attach to and breach a cell wall and then "persuades" the cell to make millions of copies of the virus. The vaccine works by teaching the immune system what that spike protein is and encourages it to make and attach antibodies to the spike, preventing it attaching to or breaching a healthy cell wall.
If - as with Omicron - the spike is able to stop the antibody attaching itself, then it can continue ot do what nature (or science) has intended. The vaccines we have may not on just two doses encourage enough antibodies to be produced, meaning a third is needed. It may also be the case that the antibodies themselves need to adapt and mutate to deal with the Omicron spike protein and to do that you need a population of billions. Hence the need for a boost.
So a vaccine does not "kill" the virus but equally it can work to boost the immune system to swamp a virus and crucially the spikes.
In due course we may well have a virus killer but that is perhaps a few years away. | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 17:42 - Dec 13 with 4911 views | saint901 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 16:15 - Dec 13 by ElijahK |
The vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting it, it just stops it from harming/majorly effecting your system, hence why there can be loads of transmissions, but very few people actually suffering/getting issues from it. For all we know there could be a type of virus that been going around for thousands of years that peoples bodies have naturally adapted into protecting, due to white blood cells being able to identify and exterminate the bacteria cells, and because of this, we don’t realise of just how many get transmitted every day as it makes 0% of a difference to us. |
Our bodies contain many viruses and bacteria that are usually harmless or even helpful but can in some people be triggered to produce life threatening illness.
Meningitis is one such. Basically everybody carries that bacteria but only a few go on to develop severe illness, often after many years of harmless carrying.
It seems that corona virus is not that type. Instead it is something that has come from an outside source possibly crossing a species divide, and as such the human body has no natural defence.
Give the body a few years or decades and it may well develop a natural defence. That route however means that hundreds of millions risk dying and tens of millions will die.
If we were in the Dark Ages and bubonic plague was decimating Europe, allowing the disease to burn itself out or the body to become resistant (Darwinian theory at its best) was the only option. These days we're vain enough to think that we can beat this disease.
First step is to prevent it killing in the numbers it would like. Second step is to kill the virus in corpora. Third step will be a hopefully single vaccine that will give lifelong protection rather like polio, smallpox etc. | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 18:00 - Dec 13 with 4895 views | Poirot |
I dont see it logistically possible to achieve even half that amount at this time of year. Certainly my surgery, which as a group has five other surgeries is currently in the 40s bracket and has two day appointments scheduled for this week only for december. That will cater for 3000. It would need army and ?? to try and get something much higher. |  | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 06:17 - Dec 14 with 4753 views | barry_sanchez |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:52 - Dec 13 by saint68 |
The government are on an all out drive to stop omicron (that's their position)..with a vaccine drive that doesn't stop the Omicron variants transmission...and you think thats logical..unbelievable!!
They also expect there to be up to 2 million transmissions per day by mid January...that basically acknowledges that the vaccines won't work...but you carry on being abusive. |
A vaccine doesn't stop a virus.
You need to grasp that first.
It heightens the immune system to fight the infection more effectively and thereby lowering serious hospital admissions further burdening the NHS due to massive real time tory cuts. |  |
| He who is silent and bows his head dies every time he does so. He who speaks aloud and walks with his head held high dies only once.
—Giovanni Falcone | | Poll: | What is your favourite poll? |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:01 - Dec 14 with 4707 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 06:17 - Dec 14 by barry_sanchez |
A vaccine doesn't stop a virus.
You need to grasp that first.
It heightens the immune system to fight the infection more effectively and thereby lowering serious hospital admissions further burdening the NHS due to massive real time tory cuts. |
So that actually makes the provision of covid passports defunct then in reality.
Trouble is the government blatantly said get the booster to stop the spread of omicron..they use the incorrect term of immunisation rollout..
So if you want to get pedantic about it, don't blame me for what the government state numerous times a week.
And bed availability has dropped by 50% over the past 30yrs as you say..but there was a labour government during that period also. [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 9:05]
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:33 - Dec 14 with 4673 views | saint901 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:01 - Dec 14 by saint68 |
So that actually makes the provision of covid passports defunct then in reality.
Trouble is the government blatantly said get the booster to stop the spread of omicron..they use the incorrect term of immunisation rollout..
So if you want to get pedantic about it, don't blame me for what the government state numerous times a week.
And bed availability has dropped by 50% over the past 30yrs as you say..but there was a labour government during that period also. [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 9:05]
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You may well be correct in that the Gov't messaging is not as pedantically accurate as you would like but that is because the core message, i.e. vaccines will slow the spread, mitigate the effects and yes, sometimes, prevent infection, is not one that translates into the sound bites that many people absorb.
It does not help when our highly educated PM reduces himself to three word catch phrases but again, many social scientists in marketing will tell you that this is what penetrates to most people.
If you want to play pedantic games, then fault will be found on all sides of this debate.
Bed availability may also have dropped (i have not looked for any data) and that is almost certainly a result of chronic underfunding by all gov'ts over the past 3 or 4 decades. | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:36 - Dec 14 with 4671 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 09:33 - Dec 14 by saint901 |
You may well be correct in that the Gov't messaging is not as pedantically accurate as you would like but that is because the core message, i.e. vaccines will slow the spread, mitigate the effects and yes, sometimes, prevent infection, is not one that translates into the sound bites that many people absorb.
It does not help when our highly educated PM reduces himself to three word catch phrases but again, many social scientists in marketing will tell you that this is what penetrates to most people.
If you want to play pedantic games, then fault will be found on all sides of this debate.
Bed availability may also have dropped (i have not looked for any data) and that is almost certainly a result of chronic underfunding by all gov'ts over the past 3 or 4 decades. |
Some information in regards to the NHS bed situation
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hospital-bed-numbers | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:48 - Dec 14 with 4645 views | saint901 |
Nobody is denying that there is a shortage of beds in the NHS. Why is this news, shocking, proof of anything other than underfunding or relevant?
We can lay the blame at the feet of every Gov't in the last 40/50 years but knowing who is to blame is completely irrelevant in today's circumstances.
No publicly (or privately) funded health system plans and funds for the one in a hundred years pandemic. To do that you would literally have whole hospitals and thousands of highly trained staff standing idle for 95 of those 100 years.
Put another way, the NHS annual budget is circa 180bn. Planning for that 100 year pandemic might add a tenth to that? Say £20bn - a year. Putting 1p on basic rate tax brings in around £5bn. So we would have needed 4p a year increase in basic rate tax every year for the last say 30 years to have been totally prepared for an event that was perhaps foreseen but was a low probability.
No Gov't in the world can do that. The alternative is a mainly private and paid for health system which brings its own problems for the less well off.
Absolutely agree that in a perfect world the NHS would be free, staffed to cope with Covid and continue everything else it does, be able to supply the latest bleeding edge medicines and procedures and pay its nurses a decent salary. Sadly our world is not perfect and the vast majority of people in the UK would not volunteer to pay additional income tax "just in case". | | | |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 20:49 - Dec 14 with 4553 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:48 - Dec 14 by saint901 |
Nobody is denying that there is a shortage of beds in the NHS. Why is this news, shocking, proof of anything other than underfunding or relevant?
We can lay the blame at the feet of every Gov't in the last 40/50 years but knowing who is to blame is completely irrelevant in today's circumstances.
No publicly (or privately) funded health system plans and funds for the one in a hundred years pandemic. To do that you would literally have whole hospitals and thousands of highly trained staff standing idle for 95 of those 100 years.
Put another way, the NHS annual budget is circa 180bn. Planning for that 100 year pandemic might add a tenth to that? Say £20bn - a year. Putting 1p on basic rate tax brings in around £5bn. So we would have needed 4p a year increase in basic rate tax every year for the last say 30 years to have been totally prepared for an event that was perhaps foreseen but was a low probability.
No Gov't in the world can do that. The alternative is a mainly private and paid for health system which brings its own problems for the less well off.
Absolutely agree that in a perfect world the NHS would be free, staffed to cope with Covid and continue everything else it does, be able to supply the latest bleeding edge medicines and procedures and pay its nurses a decent salary. Sadly our world is not perfect and the vast majority of people in the UK would not volunteer to pay additional income tax "just in case". |
Evening 901, I'm not sure why you've gone into depth on an NHS bed availability situation that was just a response to another poster stating about the tories making cuts..
I'd never expect a government to safeguard a possible solution for a once in 5 generations plus pandemic..its not feasible or affordable..
I'd also question any government that closes down primary care to stop the equivalent of an horrendous flu outbreak..but if vaccinating the entire planet from new borns and upwards is your cup of Tea then this is the time of your life.
And if you think people that have a little bit of paper in their wallet make them impervious to contracting or transmitting a virus, then you're absolutely off your rocker [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 20:58]
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 23:00 - Dec 14 with 4500 views | ElijahK |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 20:49 - Dec 14 by saint68 |
Evening 901, I'm not sure why you've gone into depth on an NHS bed availability situation that was just a response to another poster stating about the tories making cuts..
I'd never expect a government to safeguard a possible solution for a once in 5 generations plus pandemic..its not feasible or affordable..
I'd also question any government that closes down primary care to stop the equivalent of an horrendous flu outbreak..but if vaccinating the entire planet from new borns and upwards is your cup of Tea then this is the time of your life.
And if you think people that have a little bit of paper in their wallet make them impervious to contracting or transmitting a virus, then you're absolutely off your rocker [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 20:58]
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But the point of everyone getting vaccinated to get “that little bit of paper in their wallet” isn’t to stop it from spreading, but to stop people from being affected by it, as like what Saint901 and myself said before, that there are loads of bacteria/viruses/diseases going around every day, it’s just a, OST all of them your body is naturally adapted into handling which your immune system, it’s just the newer/more dangerous ones (aka COVID) you may need vaccinations for as your body hasn’t had the time/strength to adapting it’s immune system to fight it. But if everyone was to get a vaccine (which is why it’s happening as they’re trying to persuade people into getting them by doing this) then they can go to the games as it’s extremely unlikely that they’ll be effected by COVID if it is spread there. As if everyone had a COVID vaccine then very few people would actually need to be treated, and no one would need to self isolate as everyone should be immune to it, hence like the many diseases, bacteria, viruses etc that are spread day to day unknowingly, it won’t effect the average person so there’s no need to do anything differently. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 23:22 - Dec 14 with 4479 views | saint68 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 23:00 - Dec 14 by ElijahK |
But the point of everyone getting vaccinated to get “that little bit of paper in their wallet” isn’t to stop it from spreading, but to stop people from being affected by it, as like what Saint901 and myself said before, that there are loads of bacteria/viruses/diseases going around every day, it’s just a, OST all of them your body is naturally adapted into handling which your immune system, it’s just the newer/more dangerous ones (aka COVID) you may need vaccinations for as your body hasn’t had the time/strength to adapting it’s immune system to fight it. But if everyone was to get a vaccine (which is why it’s happening as they’re trying to persuade people into getting them by doing this) then they can go to the games as it’s extremely unlikely that they’ll be effected by COVID if it is spread there. As if everyone had a COVID vaccine then very few people would actually need to be treated, and no one would need to self isolate as everyone should be immune to it, hence like the many diseases, bacteria, viruses etc that are spread day to day unknowingly, it won’t effect the average person so there’s no need to do anything differently. |
So Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are credible and honest...Subjecting under 12yr olds is a positive move..
Granting people a passport even though they still transmit and ingest the very thing they're vaccinated against is fukin illogical in any other aspect of life unless you're brainwashed by covid media bullshit
Logic has been abandoned.. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 00:26 - Dec 15 with 4454 views | ElijahK |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 23:22 - Dec 14 by saint68 |
So Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are credible and honest...Subjecting under 12yr olds is a positive move..
Granting people a passport even though they still transmit and ingest the very thing they're vaccinated against is fukin illogical in any other aspect of life unless you're brainwashed by covid media bullshit
Logic has been abandoned.. |
You really don’t seem to understand or get how science/biology works…
At the end of the day it’s irrelevant to your average person if a disease is transmitted or such, if it doesn’t affect the human. That’s why some diseases kill dogs, bats, cats etc, but not humans and over species, but are still spread form person to person, day to day, yet the government don’t request/require you to take a vaccination for them as they don’t affect you.
COVID though does, hence why you get a vaccine to stop it from effecting you. Simple as, it’s the sort of thing that a kid should know. As you can’t really stop the spread of a disease in today’s world, but you can slow slow down the spread, but in the end if people don’t get effected by it (because they’ve had a vaccine) then there’s no need to slow it down, hence why people can then get on with their lives, whilst if you can be effected by it (aka you haven’t had a vaccine) then you do need to slow down the spread, so that less are infected and at risk, hence why people’s lives are effected then. Which is exactly why the government want people vaccinated.
And no I’ve not been brainwashed by the media and COVID, as I’m someone who took biology at college and learnt about viruses and which had nothing to do with COVID, other than them both being a virus, hence why I know what I’m on about. | |
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| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 10:02 - Dec 15 with 4376 views | saint901 |
| 1 million jabs a day to beat Omicron on 20:49 - Dec 14 by saint68 |
Evening 901, I'm not sure why you've gone into depth on an NHS bed availability situation that was just a response to another poster stating about the tories making cuts..
I'd never expect a government to safeguard a possible solution for a once in 5 generations plus pandemic..its not feasible or affordable..
I'd also question any government that closes down primary care to stop the equivalent of an horrendous flu outbreak..but if vaccinating the entire planet from new borns and upwards is your cup of Tea then this is the time of your life.
And if you think people that have a little bit of paper in their wallet make them impervious to contracting or transmitting a virus, then you're absolutely off your rocker [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 20:58]
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Good morning Mr 68.
The classic, "let me repeat your points but reach a slightly different conclusion" response.
The resources available to the NHS are one of the key drivers to the Covid response. It does not good if doctors are treating patients in hospital car parks. Arguably the Nightingale Hospital were closed too early (although I always wondered where the staff would be found) but the Tories/Boris became obsessed with their "no turning back" agenda which is classic example of politics over riding the science and common sense.
You do however repeat an error that is common amongst those who resent the imposition of Covid measures.
Nobody who has listened to the press conferences or the news properly thinks that the vaccines prevent them from contracting the disease or transmitting it.
Everybody who has been paying attention knows that the vaccine is designed to mitigate symptoms in the event that they catch the disease.
If you choose not to be vaccinated then you accept that you may become more ill than another person who has been vaccinated. You also have to accept that you may become so ill as to risk long term health damage or death.
This is what anybody who hears what is being said by politicians and health professionals knows. | | | |
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