Is this really "exciting football"? 17:32 - Dec 4 with 11798 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar | Once again, our possession of the ball was more than double that of our opponents. Yet, once again, we only just managed to convert our colossal domination of the ball into more attacks than our opponents From 67% possession, we yielded just 113 attacks. Yet, from just 33% possession, Middlesbrough yielded 104 attacks. We had 103% more possession of the ball, yet attempted only 9% more attacks throughout the game. That's scandalous and certainly isn't "exciting football" in my opinion. It is little wonder we have so many clean sheets despite having such a nonsensical defensive approach. Imagine how many more attacks teams would achieve against us if we weren't aimlessly keeping possession amongst our 5 centre backs for a significant portion of the match. This isn't exciting football. Too many Swansea City supporters equate possession with "exciting football". I'm hesitant to use the word brainwashed, but some supporters have certainly been conditioned to think this way. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 17:33]
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:06 - Dec 5 with 987 views | builthjack |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 22:30 - Dec 4 by Dr_Parnassus | Seemed to be the mantra on here didn’t it? “Give him 10 games”. |
Oh right. I said from the start that he would need 3 transfer windows to get it right. I stand by that. | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:09 - Dec 5 with 983 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:02 - Dec 5 by Catullus | Ummm, I didn't see your post. I replied to Treforys, do calm down. I didn't see it because you are on ignore and I have to log out to see your posts. As for getting excited, it's hard to get excited over things you don't often see. In fact, I got bored seeing your interminably long, blowhard replies, which I why you are on ignore. You are also wrong about me and itchy, we often disagree, specially about politics. PS, I always try to breathe, its hard going otherwise. Also, I don't skulk away. I leave because I get bored with your bluster. It doesn't mean I have lost. Take today, this is my last answer to you because I am right and no longer need to answer you, whatever you post, which is never gracious. |
Well if you are getting yourself all worked up (which you are) then you really should think about reading those replies, especially when you are actively seeking out someone you claim to be wishing to ignore. Have some self control and a bit of common sense. If you have put me on ignore as you claim, it has nothing to do with boredom and everything to do with the fact that I keep putting you right whenever you try to interject with some nonsense to get your kicks. You have gone off in a huff on several occasions after I have pointed out your errors. Whether you disagree with Itchy regarding politics has nothing to do with anything that I just said. Your partisan political views has absolutely nothing to do with you getting excited every time I post. It is that similarity which has got you confused with him. Everytime you post you lose, because you have nothing of any note to say. Let’s see if this is your last post to me then; try and have some self restraint and let’s see if you can stick to your word. You will be having withdrawal symptoms by the time the year is out, we both know that. Happy ignoring. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:14 - Dec 5 with 974 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:06 - Dec 5 by builthjack | Oh right. I said from the start that he would need 3 transfer windows to get it right. I stand by that. |
That seems incredibly excessive to me. There is no reason why he can’t get it right now. 9 players brought in on top of the good foundation that was already here with Grimes, Naughton, Canango, Bennett and Manning. Other managers seem to have been able to get it right along the way relatively quickly, not sure why people think so little of Martin that he needs way more time than everyone else. I’m backing him to get his act together and drag us up the league this season, but he needs to start swallowing his pride and reverting to the middle ground style that was starting to see good success. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:31 - Dec 5 with 952 views | jasper_T | If you need to attend matches to be entitled to an opinion shouldn't this site be shut down? Keith's not flying over twice a week, is he? It's always the same when some people don't like hearing valid criticism of the team or a performance - they make up some way to disqualify the poster as being a troll or "not a proper fan", or having an agenda. | | | |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:39 - Dec 5 with 941 views | magicdaps10 |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:31 - Dec 5 by jasper_T | If you need to attend matches to be entitled to an opinion shouldn't this site be shut down? Keith's not flying over twice a week, is he? It's always the same when some people don't like hearing valid criticism of the team or a performance - they make up some way to disqualify the poster as being a troll or "not a proper fan", or having an agenda. |
Oh of course you are entitled to an opinion, you are entitled to one as much if you go or don't. As is always the issue on the regular basis on this site, we have certain posters who will suggest their opinion is fact and even one or 2 who will just tell you that their opinion is correct. Unfortunately certain posters are not consistent and like telling but are unwilling to be told. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:40 - Dec 5 with 940 views | jojaca | Watching TV is better than being at the stadium to form opinions on how we play. Being at the stadium, you will pick up more on off the ball stuff like players running into space, tracking back to defend etc. But in general you will only analyse certain parts of the pitch to the viewpoint from your seat. At the moment I am annoyed that we are not learning defensively especially away from home. You just know we are going to gift teams two or three golden opportunities, even the opposition commentators can't believe the risk we take. We have to get the percentages right with risk reward. In general I would like to see us make less passes to get us from A to B, high tempo and sometimes more direct and change formation more when we are struggling. | |
| Even when you know, you never know? |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:46 - Dec 5 with 930 views | Fireboy2 |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:31 - Dec 5 by jasper_T | If you need to attend matches to be entitled to an opinion shouldn't this site be shut down? Keith's not flying over twice a week, is he? It's always the same when some people don't like hearing valid criticism of the team or a performance - they make up some way to disqualify the poster as being a troll or "not a proper fan", or having an agenda. |
The people I'm getting at are the trolls jasper. I never post if I don't watch the game whether it's live or on the box, these trolls post their opinions only to get a reaction, they are not proper fans, but that is just my opinion. | | | |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:47 - Dec 5 with 929 views | KeithHaynes |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:31 - Dec 5 by jasper_T | If you need to attend matches to be entitled to an opinion shouldn't this site be shut down? Keith's not flying over twice a week, is he? It's always the same when some people don't like hearing valid criticism of the team or a performance - they make up some way to disqualify the poster as being a troll or "not a proper fan", or having an agenda. |
That’s a fact. I don’t fly over twice a week. Still have a season, don’t use it tho. Donate it most games to a worthy cause. However, the OP asked the question ‘ Is this exciting football’ I think it’s better than we have seen for some years, what do you think ? | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:57 - Dec 5 with 912 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:39 - Dec 5 by magicdaps10 | Oh of course you are entitled to an opinion, you are entitled to one as much if you go or don't. As is always the issue on the regular basis on this site, we have certain posters who will suggest their opinion is fact and even one or 2 who will just tell you that their opinion is correct. Unfortunately certain posters are not consistent and like telling but are unwilling to be told. |
The statistics in my original post are facts. We had over 100% more possession of the ball, yet only yielded 9% more attacks than Middlesbrough throughout the match. Of course, my opinions as to why that is, are not facts. They're opinions. In my opinion, we have a manager who is actively trying to see us achieve 'headline' possession statistics and is happy to do so at the expense of attaining the maximum number of points this group of players are capable of. I base that on him doing the same thing at MK Dons which resulted in him climbing the managerial ladder off of the, at best, average job he did at MK Dons. The only thing about Russell Martin that differs from the dozens of other managers in the Football League failing to achieve noticeable success is his "possession" ideology. He's certainly at the right club for that. Few other supporter bases in this country have been conditioned to blindly equate possession with success as those supporting Swansea City. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:58 - Dec 5 with 911 views | magicdaps10 |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:40 - Dec 5 by jojaca | Watching TV is better than being at the stadium to form opinions on how we play. Being at the stadium, you will pick up more on off the ball stuff like players running into space, tracking back to defend etc. But in general you will only analyse certain parts of the pitch to the viewpoint from your seat. At the moment I am annoyed that we are not learning defensively especially away from home. You just know we are going to gift teams two or three golden opportunities, even the opposition commentators can't believe the risk we take. We have to get the percentages right with risk reward. In general I would like to see us make less passes to get us from A to B, high tempo and sometimes more direct and change formation more when we are struggling. |
Sorry, first paragraph is very confusing. Do you mean you will only analyse certain parts of the pitch from watching on TV rather instead of as you put from your seat? I think it's clearer that you pick up runs, tracking back to defend etc from being at the stadium rather than TV as the camera only concentrates on pitch where the ball is. A lot of learning will still be happening and will be for the rest of the season. This season from the very top to the most screwed on fan will tell you that this season was always going to be about transition. As for Keith's question, football is far better.... Players more comfortable on the ball, passing 1 millions times better.... The foundation has been set from the dross from the last 2 seasons but its just a start and patient and understanding is still required. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:03 - Dec 5 with 906 views | Treforys_Jack |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:58 - Dec 5 by magicdaps10 | Sorry, first paragraph is very confusing. Do you mean you will only analyse certain parts of the pitch from watching on TV rather instead of as you put from your seat? I think it's clearer that you pick up runs, tracking back to defend etc from being at the stadium rather than TV as the camera only concentrates on pitch where the ball is. A lot of learning will still be happening and will be for the rest of the season. This season from the very top to the most screwed on fan will tell you that this season was always going to be about transition. As for Keith's question, football is far better.... Players more comfortable on the ball, passing 1 millions times better.... The foundation has been set from the dross from the last 2 seasons but its just a start and patient and understanding is still required. |
You arecorrect in much of what you say (in my opinion) but we won't know until March and the new signings are bedded in. Hope what looks like is happening actually comes to fruition otherwise, where do we go ? | | | |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:03 - Dec 5 with 902 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:31 - Dec 5 by jasper_T | If you need to attend matches to be entitled to an opinion shouldn't this site be shut down? Keith's not flying over twice a week, is he? It's always the same when some people don't like hearing valid criticism of the team or a performance - they make up some way to disqualify the poster as being a troll or "not a proper fan", or having an agenda. |
Is simply a case of an easy cop out of an opinion someone doesn’t like. “You weren’t physically there” is one of the oldest rebuttals there is. It’s a very cheap way out for some, and for others it’s a convenient way to block out reality. No doubt those saying how wonderful we played wouldn’t have any questions or pushback regarding their entry status. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:10 - Dec 5 with 900 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:58 - Dec 5 by magicdaps10 | Sorry, first paragraph is very confusing. Do you mean you will only analyse certain parts of the pitch from watching on TV rather instead of as you put from your seat? I think it's clearer that you pick up runs, tracking back to defend etc from being at the stadium rather than TV as the camera only concentrates on pitch where the ball is. A lot of learning will still be happening and will be for the rest of the season. This season from the very top to the most screwed on fan will tell you that this season was always going to be about transition. As for Keith's question, football is far better.... Players more comfortable on the ball, passing 1 millions times better.... The foundation has been set from the dross from the last 2 seasons but its just a start and patient and understanding is still required. |
More possession and more passes at the back doesn’t mean “better” though, does it. It would only be “better” if by doing so, we were able to emulate the success of previous disliked styles. That’s what Brendan and Roberto did. Otherwise we are deducing that “perceived style” over substance is the desired outcome, which I would truly hope is not the case. Last season we had more attacks, more goal scoring opportunities, more goals, more points, less conceded - so “better”? No, it’s very hard indeed to make a case for it being “better”. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:17 - Dec 5 with 901 views | magicdaps10 |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:57 - Dec 5 by DwightYorkeSuperstar | The statistics in my original post are facts. We had over 100% more possession of the ball, yet only yielded 9% more attacks than Middlesbrough throughout the match. Of course, my opinions as to why that is, are not facts. They're opinions. In my opinion, we have a manager who is actively trying to see us achieve 'headline' possession statistics and is happy to do so at the expense of attaining the maximum number of points this group of players are capable of. I base that on him doing the same thing at MK Dons which resulted in him climbing the managerial ladder off of the, at best, average job he did at MK Dons. The only thing about Russell Martin that differs from the dozens of other managers in the Football League failing to achieve noticeable success is his "possession" ideology. He's certainly at the right club for that. Few other supporter bases in this country have been conditioned to blindly equate possession with success as those supporting Swansea City. |
I think this season was always aimed as one to switch back to the Swansea style, done so with a massive drop in income and with losing some quality established players. We signed players who were unestablisehed, young and some at a cross roads in their career. The aim from the top, management and all around within the club was this season would welcome a solid mid table finish and anything better would be seen as a bonus. Piroe, Ntcham, Downes and Patterson have moulded into the squad quicker than expected but I would suspect that burn out is something we can expect when you take into account that none of them have had a real full season for a couple of seasons and a season of build up would and is much needed. This team is not a play off team as it stands but has potential to be one, minutes under their belt and work done in January might change that come March, April and May but I wouldn't be expecting it although otherwise will believe that we should be up there. There is a lot of learning to be done off the pitch as much as it is on it but there has been a fair bit of over expectancy this season and its mainly from the fans who didn't want to see Cooper go and have had it in for Martin since his appointment. I for one was glad that Cooper went but we have to realise despite the "mutual agreement" line that Cooper made his mind up in the summer and he was not going to be manager of Swansea City come the first game of August. We are still missing quality in the current team in areas that will bring more chances, we are being linked to creative players as we are defenders and it's obvious why we are. I don't think Swansea as a fan base are blind to associate possession to success although over years gone past it has... I just think fans have learned what possession can bring and we have learned to be patient especially when playing possession football because we know what it can bring to the table. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:23 - Dec 5 with 888 views | magicdaps10 |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:03 - Dec 5 by Treforys_Jack | You arecorrect in much of what you say (in my opinion) but we won't know until March and the new signings are bedded in. Hope what looks like is happening actually comes to fruition otherwise, where do we go ? |
Where do we go, not something I can answer but we will obviously keep trying and sticking to the principles. This team is not a play off team, we lost half a team of established players last season and we brought in gambles.... The signs are good but those players were never going to peice a team together and be better than last seasons team. Its a season of build but it won't suit some fans agenda especially those who liked Cooper. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:26 - Dec 5 with 882 views | Catullus |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:47 - Dec 5 by KeithHaynes | That’s a fact. I don’t fly over twice a week. Still have a season, don’t use it tho. Donate it most games to a worthy cause. However, the OP asked the question ‘ Is this exciting football’ I think it’s better than we have seen for some years, what do you think ? |
The last home game was definitely not exciting. Far too slow and ponderous is how I'd describe it. In general, there are improvements, we just slipped backwards a bit. Thats not to say the whole project is a failure just that it is still a work in progress, and we still need patience. If we had 10 million to splurge on 3-4 players in January, we might get there more quickly. However, we are sticking to stronger financial principles so getting there will take a bit longer. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:27 - Dec 5 with 875 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:17 - Dec 5 by magicdaps10 | I think this season was always aimed as one to switch back to the Swansea style, done so with a massive drop in income and with losing some quality established players. We signed players who were unestablisehed, young and some at a cross roads in their career. The aim from the top, management and all around within the club was this season would welcome a solid mid table finish and anything better would be seen as a bonus. Piroe, Ntcham, Downes and Patterson have moulded into the squad quicker than expected but I would suspect that burn out is something we can expect when you take into account that none of them have had a real full season for a couple of seasons and a season of build up would and is much needed. This team is not a play off team as it stands but has potential to be one, minutes under their belt and work done in January might change that come March, April and May but I wouldn't be expecting it although otherwise will believe that we should be up there. There is a lot of learning to be done off the pitch as much as it is on it but there has been a fair bit of over expectancy this season and its mainly from the fans who didn't want to see Cooper go and have had it in for Martin since his appointment. I for one was glad that Cooper went but we have to realise despite the "mutual agreement" line that Cooper made his mind up in the summer and he was not going to be manager of Swansea City come the first game of August. We are still missing quality in the current team in areas that will bring more chances, we are being linked to creative players as we are defenders and it's obvious why we are. I don't think Swansea as a fan base are blind to associate possession to success although over years gone past it has... I just think fans have learned what possession can bring and we have learned to be patient especially when playing possession football because we know what it can bring to the table. |
This is not the Swansea style, we have never played like this before. Ever. We have spent the second highest amount in a single football league season in our history. Patterson, Laird, Piroe, Ntcham, Downes have all come in added to the likes of Joseph, Williams, Obafemi and Walsh - and you would need to have your head read to swap them back for who we lost last season. We have one of the best starting XI’s in the league, top 6 in my opinion. It would be very interesting for anyone to name 7 starting line ups they would prefer to ours. It’s also the strongest depth we have had for a while. Cabango, Obafemi struggling to get in an not even Ntcham is guaranteed to start. Nobody has “had it in” for Martin, that’s just pure nonsense and it’s coming from those who took a stance against Cooper as a way to combat the fact we are struggling to perform since he left. Those that backed Cooper and didn’t want him to leave due to what he achieved here year after year are the same ones that are praising and criticising Martin in accordance to what he is delivering. I don’t see too many people slating him when we play well or win, do you? That suggests the criticism is perfectly valid and warranted. You are creating myths again. Sorry but they just won’t wash. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:31 - Dec 5 with 864 views | onehunglow |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:27 - Dec 5 by Dr_Parnassus | This is not the Swansea style, we have never played like this before. Ever. We have spent the second highest amount in a single football league season in our history. Patterson, Laird, Piroe, Ntcham, Downes have all come in added to the likes of Joseph, Williams, Obafemi and Walsh - and you would need to have your head read to swap them back for who we lost last season. We have one of the best starting XI’s in the league, top 6 in my opinion. It would be very interesting for anyone to name 7 starting line ups they would prefer to ours. It’s also the strongest depth we have had for a while. Cabango, Obafemi struggling to get in an not even Ntcham is guaranteed to start. Nobody has “had it in” for Martin, that’s just pure nonsense and it’s coming from those who took a stance against Cooper as a way to combat the fact we are struggling to perform since he left. Those that backed Cooper and didn’t want him to leave due to what he achieved here year after year are the same ones that are praising and criticising Martin in accordance to what he is delivering. I don’t see too many people slating him when we play well or win, do you? That suggests the criticism is perfectly valid and warranted. You are creating myths again. Sorry but they just won’t wash. |
Passing for the sake of it was never a Swansea trait. Sometimes a manager has to accept he has to work with the tools he has available ;his players. You are not going to score many goals by endlessly stroking it sideways in your own penalty area. It is beyond dumb. We have fallen so far so fat it hurts like hell still. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:34 - Dec 5 with 865 views | Fireboy2 |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 13:57 - Dec 5 by DwightYorkeSuperstar | The statistics in my original post are facts. We had over 100% more possession of the ball, yet only yielded 9% more attacks than Middlesbrough throughout the match. Of course, my opinions as to why that is, are not facts. They're opinions. In my opinion, we have a manager who is actively trying to see us achieve 'headline' possession statistics and is happy to do so at the expense of attaining the maximum number of points this group of players are capable of. I base that on him doing the same thing at MK Dons which resulted in him climbing the managerial ladder off of the, at best, average job he did at MK Dons. The only thing about Russell Martin that differs from the dozens of other managers in the Football League failing to achieve noticeable success is his "possession" ideology. He's certainly at the right club for that. Few other supporter bases in this country have been conditioned to blindly equate possession with success as those supporting Swansea City. |
We? Stop it, my sides are splitting 🤣🤣🤣 | | | |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:37 - Dec 5 with 860 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:31 - Dec 5 by onehunglow | Passing for the sake of it was never a Swansea trait. Sometimes a manager has to accept he has to work with the tools he has available ;his players. You are not going to score many goals by endlessly stroking it sideways in your own penalty area. It is beyond dumb. We have fallen so far so fat it hurts like hell still. |
Anyone suggesting this is the Swansea way, either has not been paying attention or is punch drunk on possession stats. The Swansea way was a quick passing tempo, incisive passing, intentional and purposeful triangles and direct cutting attacks utilising the long ball to the wings. Which part of that sentence is similar to our current way of playing? I don’t see any similarities other than “we keep the ball”. Which isn’t similar at all if you look into the way in which we do keep the ball, it’s aimless. It’s hilarious that the same people slating others for saying this are the same ones complaining Cooper lacked attacking intent, when we now attack 16% less than his reign. We used to have an intelligent fan base that understood the game, now it seems like we have a bunch of clapping seals and nodding dogs that simply cannot see past a couple of passes and some possession. We hit upon a really good style a few weeks back where we were utilising much of the above description regarding “the Swansea way”. We have now regressed back to the stat boosting nonsense we saw at the start of the season which is “park the bus via possession”. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:39 - Dec 5 with 860 views | KeithHaynes |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:31 - Dec 5 by onehunglow | Passing for the sake of it was never a Swansea trait. Sometimes a manager has to accept he has to work with the tools he has available ;his players. You are not going to score many goals by endlessly stroking it sideways in your own penalty area. It is beyond dumb. We have fallen so far so fat it hurts like hell still. |
We create more chances this season than last, I’m sure. There will come a time in the coming weeks it will come together. Can’t blame Martin for the inefficiency of those who are in front of goal when the chances come. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:42 - Dec 5 with 849 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:39 - Dec 5 by KeithHaynes | We create more chances this season than last, I’m sure. There will come a time in the coming weeks it will come together. Can’t blame Martin for the inefficiency of those who are in front of goal when the chances come. |
We don’t mate. Goal attempts down on last season at this point by around 7%. Goal attempts down over the last 2 season average at this point by around 16%. [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 14:43]
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:45 - Dec 5 with 848 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:39 - Dec 5 by KeithHaynes | We create more chances this season than last, I’m sure. There will come a time in the coming weeks it will come together. Can’t blame Martin for the inefficiency of those who are in front of goal when the chances come. |
Our xG (Expected Goals) last season was 1.5 - ranked 7th in the league. After 21 games this season, it is 1.08 - ranked 17th in the league. https://footystats.org/england/championship/xg# | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:45 - Dec 5 with 848 views | magicdaps10 |
Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:39 - Dec 5 by KeithHaynes | We create more chances this season than last, I’m sure. There will come a time in the coming weeks it will come together. Can’t blame Martin for the inefficiency of those who are in front of goal when the chances come. |
Throw in the inefficiency of the officials where we should have had 4/5 penalties that would have yielded another 5/7 points arguably AND then we would certainly have been punching in this league. We haven't helped ourselves for sure but we haven't had any help either so where we sit in the league is one I expected even without the calls we have not received this season. Its a stark contrast to some of the decisions we were getting in the last 12months.....quite a few questionable. | |
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Is this really "exciting football"? on 14:46 - Dec 5 with 845 views | Thornburyswan | Exciting . . . . no, not at this point anyway, but for me, more enjoyable & offers more potential than last few seasons. That said the potential is caveated with a dependency on the next 2 windows plus the assumption that our American owners continue backing the required additions (& exits in order to balance the books) through those windows. For me we currently have a weaker squad, both in terms of replacements vs departees & in terms of depth/bench options than last season plus we are looking to play in a different way - we need a better keeper, at least one ball playing CB, RWB, more goals from the central 3 midfielders, different ‘10’ option & unless either Obafemi or Whittaker can buy into the RM model a further striker. We also lack pace anywhere on the pitch so get caught to easily on the counter & struggle to break at pace ourselves not to mention we lack meaningful set piece threat. So a LOT for Messrs Martin, Allen & Winter to work on in January & the summer. | | | |
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