| Andre Gray inbound 11:18 - Aug 30 with 44700 views | James_Paddocks |
Having a medical this morning, according to the wonderful world of QPR Twitter...
Watford fans seem delighted to see the back of him.
I'll trust Warbs, Les and Lee though. [Post edited 30 Aug 2021 11:54]
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| Andre Gray inbound on 00:27 - Sep 1 with 3800 views | simmo |
Been holding off giving my thoughts on this, for what they're worth, as wanted to make sure it was official first and to read through the thoughts of others.
Initially I was pretty happy with this and from an on-the-pitch perspective I still think that assuming the financials are right, it's an almost perfect answer to our potential problem...
- He knows the division and the manager
- He's got a brilliant overall scoring record for multiple teams
- He has a complimentary skill set to Dykes and Austin and gives us an alternative way of playing
- He's not so elite that he's got a right to usurp Dykes or Austin as starters and he can play as both a lone striker or part of a 2
- If Dykes or Austin become unavailable he's a great option and miles ahead of where we were with Kelman or Bonne.
This was my overriding thoughts yesterday, but as I've learned about his actions, discussed it more with friends in the group chat and heard thoughts here, I'm a little more conflicted...
The elephant in the room is the Tweets, which as others have pointed out go beyond the 'if I had twitter at 16 I'd be cancelled too, etc, etc' and more in the realms of - that's fckin unacceptable - especially at 20/21 years old. The other 'issues' - such as alleged assault and breaking covid protocols, I'm less concerned with personally as they didn't come to anything and they're one-off accusations.
The issue I have with the personal characteristics of people like Barton, King, Ranger is that they're repeat offenders and guilty or not, there's so many allegations that it's pretty clear they're just shitty people/adults. There's also people actually charged with offences, like Danny Simpson strangling the mother of his child, or Ched Evans sexual assault, that 'one-off' or not would stop me wanting them anywhere near my club.
The glass half full outlook with Gray is that he recognised/apologised about the Tweets and there doesn't seem to be any indication that he's stil the person that sent them. I know PR output from players needs a big ladel of salt, but IMO there's more in the fact he hasn't done anything like that since. He's become a big student and supporter of civil rights in that time too, which you'd hope give a little less ignorance in these kind of issues (admittedly that's a big assumption on my part). 10 years on - he's 30, recently settled and become a father (don't underestimate the power of parenthood to change your whole perspective on things - from personal experience) and I trust Warburton to extend his principles to beyond that of purely football.
All that being said, I think it's a risk to go ahead with someone that even raises those initial questions. I have friends that would rightly feel attacked by his hateful comments and I can't fully endorse anybody that makes other fans question their support on account of the people they are. I'd rather QPR didn't put them in that position.
**TL;DR - It seems 1 transfer too far and although I'm OK to give him the benefit of the doubt as it doesn't cross the line for me personally, I think it does for others, and I find that hard to be happy about.** |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Andre Gray inbound on 00:30 - Sep 1 with 3782 views | simmo |
| Andre Gray inbound on 00:21 - Sep 1 by E17hoop |
"I’ll be there next week, celebrating when Andre Gray scores, praying he’s the final piece in the promotion puzzle, urging him on. Still, it’s not a signing that sits particularly comfortably with me."
Spot. On. |
Yeah exactly that. As usual I stumble about to articulate my thoughts but Clive has done it for me. [Post edited 1 Sep 2021 0:46]
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| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Andre Gray inbound on 00:41 - Sep 1 with 3746 views | LythamR |
I have got everything crossed that this works out, on the basis that he would not be the first person to be transformed by a loving relationship |  | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 06:41 - Sep 1 with 3567 views | kernowhoop |
| Andre Gray inbound on 00:41 - Sep 1 by LythamR |
I have got everything crossed that this works out, on the basis that he would not be the first person to be transformed by a loving relationship |
Just so. Whether that relationship is with his family or with Sir Les and Warbs, we should play our part. Let's hope it works. Give him a chance!! |  | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 07:07 - Sep 1 with 3518 views | dmm |
| Andre Gray inbound on 06:41 - Sep 1 by kernowhoop |
Just so. Whether that relationship is with his family or with Sir Les and Warbs, we should play our part. Let's hope it works. Give him a chance!! |
Good thoughts by both LythamR and yourself. If any chance of redemption is removed, hope for change dies. As uneasy as we are with Gray being at QPR, maybe we can help him in his life journey as well as his profession. |  | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 10:00 - Sep 1 with 3135 views | Toast_R |
Not much he can do about Tweets from 10 years ago. He's deleted them, he's repeatedly apologised for them and he's explained why he thought like that back then and says he's a better person. That's al you an ask isn't it? |  | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 10:13 - Sep 1 with 3088 views | BerkoRanger |
| Andre Gray inbound on 10:00 - Sep 1 by Toast_R |
Not much he can do about Tweets from 10 years ago. He's deleted them, he's repeatedly apologised for them and he's explained why he thought like that back then and says he's a better person. That's al you an ask isn't it? |
Yes, absolutely. After all, how many of us did or said things years ago we've since regretted. I say "Welcome AG - looking forward to seeing the pace of Dave Thomas in the team again!!! | | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 10:13 - Sep 1 with 3089 views | Rs_Holy |
we've got him on a years loan... I would be a tad worried if he had signed permanently on a 3 year contract but I don't see what's so bad with a 1 year loan? [Post edited 1 Sep 2021 10:38]
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| Andre Gray inbound on 10:20 - Sep 1 with 3052 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Andre Gray inbound on 07:07 - Sep 1 by dmm |
Good thoughts by both LythamR and yourself. If any chance of redemption is removed, hope for change dies. As uneasy as we are with Gray being at QPR, maybe we can help him in his life journey as well as his profession. |
Exactly this.
And while I understand and share Clive's unease at the past tweets, I think we are kidding ourselves if we don't get that loads of kids grow up surrounded by that sort of cr*p. What he said was probably not unusual among his peer group. The examples of chanting at HQ just go to show that.
All the more reason to want to stamp it out, but you do that by encouraging and rewarding change, not by damning people forever and leaving them with nowhere to go but the defensive. | | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 15:43 - Sep 1 with 2712 views | PinnerPaul |
| Andre Gray inbound on 15:06 - Aug 31 by Kensal_Ranger |
Ok, 2nd para poorly phrased, apols.
But from being absolutely chuffingly delighted with what's happened so far I'm now concerned we're about to hitch ourselves up with the wrong sort - hope I'm wrong and the club has this thing absolutely nailed.
Got everything crossed. |
Fair enough | | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 15:56 - Sep 1 with 2690 views | PinnerPaul |
| Andre Gray inbound on 21:04 - Aug 31 by BrianMcCarthy |
I also would feel very uneasy about this, if it happens. I truly hope he has changed.
I'm pleased that Kane was punished for breaking our code but, while we must recognise that Gray's tweets are historic and that he may have changed his views and behaviour, it still feels odd to me that Gray is on the way in while Kane is rightly on the way out. |
Don't normally disagree Brian, but Kane was an employee of the club at the time, and Gray did what he did 10 years ago - apples and oranges - no?
Of course I get the unease with his actions, but comparing with Kane - don't see the point myself. | | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 17:25 - Sep 1 with 2588 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Andre Gray inbound on 15:56 - Sep 1 by PinnerPaul |
Don't normally disagree Brian, but Kane was an employee of the club at the time, and Gray did what he did 10 years ago - apples and oranges - no?
Of course I get the unease with his actions, but comparing with Kane - don't see the point myself. |
Agreed, Paul - I'm not saying the two are 100% comparable. It just seems a bit odd to me.
It's done now anyway. Let's all hope it works out. |  |
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| Andre Gray inbound on 17:32 - Sep 1 with 2563 views | Northernr |
| Andre Gray inbound on 10:20 - Sep 1 by CiderwithRsie |
Exactly this.
And while I understand and share Clive's unease at the past tweets, I think we are kidding ourselves if we don't get that loads of kids grow up surrounded by that sort of cr*p. What he said was probably not unusual among his peer group. The examples of chanting at HQ just go to show that.
All the more reason to want to stamp it out, but you do that by encouraging and rewarding change, not by damning people forever and leaving them with nowhere to go but the defensive. |
I actually agree with this, and tried to convey it in the piece. People who thought like that once, but now don't, can be amazingly effective agents for change. |  | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 19:30 - Sep 1 with 2396 views | DWQPR |
| Andre Gray inbound on 17:32 - Sep 1 by Northernr |
I actually agree with this, and tried to convey it in the piece. People who thought like that once, but now don't, can be amazingly effective agents for change. |
Was going to post something along these lines as well. By all accounts there’s nothing worse than a former smoker who complains about those who continue to smoke. Reform is a strong thing. What we always tend to forget when judging people, or in this case their past is where they came from, what was the general influence of the surroundings and peer group in their growing up and what the expectations were for the likes of AG. And more importantly to think how we each may have turned out being dealt with such cards of life.
AG’s tweets were/are abhorrent but that is ten years ago, yes he was a man of 20 at that time but the language used I suspect was that of someone from the surroundings that he grew up in and within those confines probably not out of the ordinary.
And in relation to his lockdown rule breaking, let’s be honest here. I suspect that a good number of us didn’t fully adhere. In fact I’m laying claim to have created the first ‘bubble’. And I bloody glad I did. AG is in the public eye so no doubt like other public figures would always be singled out for breaches. And again, compared to far more intelligent figures, such as Cummings, Ferguson and Hancock who all helped create the rules then I’d happily ignore what he did. | |
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| Andre Gray inbound on 02:55 - Sep 2 with 2139 views | Loftgirl |
| Andre Gray inbound on 10:00 - Sep 1 by Toast_R |
Not much he can do about Tweets from 10 years ago. He's deleted them, he's repeatedly apologised for them and he's explained why he thought like that back then and says he's a better person. That's al you an ask isn't it? |
The only way to appease the Woke brigade, apart from from eternal self-flagellation, is to apologise for being a free-thinker and having the temerity to have an opinion. |  | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 06:58 - Sep 2 with 2037 views | dmm |
| Andre Gray inbound on 02:55 - Sep 2 by Loftgirl |
The only way to appease the Woke brigade, apart from from eternal self-flagellation, is to apologise for being a free-thinker and having the temerity to have an opinion. |
That's a very strange comment. Having an opinion is not an issue. It's what the opinion is that's the problem.
And, whoever and whatever you have in mind by the term 'Woke' is hardly relevant to this discussion. | | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 07:44 - Sep 2 with 1968 views | distortR |
If Loftgirl is Andre Gray's pseudonym, we're in big, big trouble....... | | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 08:28 - Sep 2 with 1893 views | QPR_Jim |
| Andre Gray inbound on 02:55 - Sep 2 by Loftgirl |
The only way to appease the Woke brigade, apart from from eternal self-flagellation, is to apologise for being a free-thinker and having the temerity to have an opinion. |
I'm not sure his comments can count as being a free thinker, if anything they're more likely due to acting up to his peer group at the time. |  | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 09:05 - Sep 2 with 1772 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Andre Gray inbound on 02:55 - Sep 2 by Loftgirl |
The only way to appease the Woke brigade, apart from from eternal self-flagellation, is to apologise for being a free-thinker and having the temerity to have an opinion. |
Inflammatory comments aside, he said it to 200,000,0000 people globally. How was his free speech hindered?
Free speech doesn’t mean free-from-criticism speech. |  | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 09:24 - Sep 2 with 1716 views | gobbles |
| Andre Gray inbound on 02:55 - Sep 2 by Loftgirl |
The only way to appease the Woke brigade, apart from from eternal self-flagellation, is to apologise for being a free-thinker and having the temerity to have an opinion. |
So burning gay people is an example of "free thinking"? |  | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 10:08 - Sep 2 with 1609 views | GloryHunter |
| Andre Gray inbound on 02:55 - Sep 2 by Loftgirl |
The only way to appease the Woke brigade, apart from from eternal self-flagellation, is to apologise for being a free-thinker and having the temerity to have an opinion. |
As others have said, expressing prejudiced views is not being a "free thinker". It is almost always repeating stuff that you've heard or read from other people. |  | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 10:48 - Sep 2 with 1523 views | Jigsore |
| Andre Gray inbound on 09:24 - Sep 2 by gobbles |
So burning gay people is an example of "free thinking"? |
there's certainly some brain cell-free thinking going on here |  |
| “The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.†|
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| Andre Gray inbound on 10:56 - Sep 2 with 1490 views | JPC |
| Andre Gray inbound on 08:28 - Sep 2 by QPR_Jim |
I'm not sure his comments can count as being a free thinker, if anything they're more likely due to acting up to his peer group at the time. |
This. Having followed this debate over the last few days, I think I'm in the camp of 'He said some very crass things a while ago, but seems to have a) apologised and b) shown that he can think for himself and be articulate(on the subject of race)' I'm always optimistic when it comes to all things QPR, so I could end up regretting giving him the benefit of the doubt, but better that than taking a polarised view of someone I've never met.
For what it's worth, having played a lot of football all of my life, I've been in a lot of dressing rooms where there's a lot of posturing and group-think, particularly where people haven't been exposed to any other voices or influences. Take the individual out of those environments and most can and will change | | | |
| Andre Gray inbound on 12:29 - Sep 2 with 1331 views | SheffieldHoop |
| Andre Gray inbound on 09:24 - Sep 2 by gobbles |
So burning gay people is an example of "free thinking"? |
Andre Gray didn't actually burn any gay people though, did he?
He did a tweet expressing views that align with Jamaican law
The fact we're here criticising Andre Gray for his views, and not Jamaica for their law, is interesting to me. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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