| Christmas Carnage? 13:11 - Dec 18 with 34411 views | Sadoldgit |
Infection rates are generally rising fast despite the tier systems so you can imagine the spike after the free for all Christmas period. Johnson obviously doesn’t want to be seen as a Grinch but by not closing down Christmas there will be a lot fewer people enjoying it with their loved ones next year.
We are battening down the hatches this Christmas. I just hope that people are sensible and do the same. Sadly though I think people will just go for it and be damned. |  | | |  |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:07 - Jan 4 with 1502 views | Saintsforeverj |
Live address at 8pm this evening from PM. He is expected to announce nationwide lockdown. Will he close the schools? And bad timing doing it when Saints are on! â˜¹ï¸ [Post edited 4 Jan 2021 16:08]
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| Christmas Carnage? on 19:20 - Jan 4 with 1409 views | kentsouthampton |
Get your Boris bullshit bingo cards ready.
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| Christmas Carnage? on 19:46 - Jan 4 with 1391 views | Berber |
| Christmas Carnage? on 16:51 - Jan 4 by dwayne_dibley |
tough call which to watch  |
We've already got the result of the Boris announcement. I'll be watching the footy. |  |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 17:20 - Jan 5 with 1266 views | DorsetIan |
Watching the Covid press conference today. The graphs they were presenting showed the virus as pretty much knocked on the head by July and August.
With such low numbers, it would have been so much easier to properly kill it off back then and we clearly took our foot off the gas too soon. Too many foreign holidays. Too much eating out to help out. And then it seems the kids and students went back and whoosh. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 17:26 - Jan 5 with 1260 views | Bicester_North |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:20 - Jan 5 by DorsetIan |
Watching the Covid press conference today. The graphs they were presenting showed the virus as pretty much knocked on the head by July and August.
With such low numbers, it would have been so much easier to properly kill it off back then and we clearly took our foot off the gas too soon. Too many foreign holidays. Too much eating out to help out. And then it seems the kids and students went back and whoosh. |
Nobody knows what would’ve happened. If we were told to keep strict restrictions throughout the summer and students couldn’t go to uni, pubs and restaurants couldn’t open, people couldn’t see their families etc there could’ve been massive extra costs to health and society, and if vaccines weren’t developed as quickly as they have been, deaths may still have been high through this winter.
It’s all a balancing act and a bit of guess work from everyone. Even epidemiologists aren’t agreed, so the armchair critics haven’t got a clue. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 17:46 - Jan 5 with 1238 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:26 - Jan 5 by Bicester_North |
Nobody knows what would’ve happened. If we were told to keep strict restrictions throughout the summer and students couldn’t go to uni, pubs and restaurants couldn’t open, people couldn’t see their families etc there could’ve been massive extra costs to health and society, and if vaccines weren’t developed as quickly as they have been, deaths may still have been high through this winter.
It’s all a balancing act and a bit of guess work from everyone. Even epidemiologists aren’t agreed, so the armchair critics haven’t got a clue. |
You can take the view that we don't know what would have happened but that's a very complacent response if you ask me.
I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that - for whatever reason - we missed a massive trick back then and we are certainly paying for it big time now, even if maybe there are some positives hidden somewhere for what we did (or didn't do).
Never mind the number of dead, the economic damage caused by the second November lockdown, then the pre-Christmas retail shutdown and now another how many weeks of another full lockdown is eye-watering and that economic damage will also bring its own long term heath and social costs.
I think if you are going to try ague that all this might be worth it because of the possibly benefits of what actually happened, you're going to have to be a bit more specific about those benefits than 'we just don't know'. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 17:48 - Jan 5 with 1236 views | Sadoldgit |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:26 - Jan 5 by Bicester_North |
Nobody knows what would’ve happened. If we were told to keep strict restrictions throughout the summer and students couldn’t go to uni, pubs and restaurants couldn’t open, people couldn’t see their families etc there could’ve been massive extra costs to health and society, and if vaccines weren’t developed as quickly as they have been, deaths may still have been high through this winter.
It’s all a balancing act and a bit of guess work from everyone. Even epidemiologists aren’t agreed, so the armchair critics haven’t got a clue. |
And neither does the PM, which is the problem. You don’t have to be an expert to realise that another lockdown was essential when the figures started to spike again before Christmas. Not for the first time Johnson put off making a difficult decision until he had no other option. The second wave was talked about constantly in the summer so it hadn’t come as a big surprise. The easing of the lockdown was criticised by many as being too much too soon as so it has proved to be. It has been one cock up after another and one u turn after another. He has constantly been on the back foot, constantly acting too late, constantly behind the curve. Over a year in and still no sign that he has got a handle on things. | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:53 - Jan 5 with 1233 views | 1885_SFC |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:48 - Jan 5 by Sadoldgit |
And neither does the PM, which is the problem. You don’t have to be an expert to realise that another lockdown was essential when the figures started to spike again before Christmas. Not for the first time Johnson put off making a difficult decision until he had no other option. The second wave was talked about constantly in the summer so it hadn’t come as a big surprise. The easing of the lockdown was criticised by many as being too much too soon as so it has proved to be. It has been one cock up after another and one u turn after another. He has constantly been on the back foot, constantly acting too late, constantly behind the curve. Over a year in and still no sign that he has got a handle on things. |
I see that as of today, the UK has vaccinated more people than any other country on earth except Israel & Bahrain.
Your last couple of sentences are - therefore - bollocks. |  |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 17:54 - Jan 5 with 1232 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:46 - Jan 5 by DorsetIan |
You can take the view that we don't know what would have happened but that's a very complacent response if you ask me.
I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that - for whatever reason - we missed a massive trick back then and we are certainly paying for it big time now, even if maybe there are some positives hidden somewhere for what we did (or didn't do).
Never mind the number of dead, the economic damage caused by the second November lockdown, then the pre-Christmas retail shutdown and now another how many weeks of another full lockdown is eye-watering and that economic damage will also bring its own long term heath and social costs.
I think if you are going to try ague that all this might be worth it because of the possibly benefits of what actually happened, you're going to have to be a bit more specific about those benefits than 'we just don't know'. |
You touch on the problem really in that we released the breaks too much. We all saw everyone packing onto beaches in the summer, the parties in pubs / houses, people packed on to tube trains, people packed into. Leicester Square, the BLM protests amongst others. And yes, they should have banned travel unless you were tested. Imo, all of those things should have been dealt with robustly with army on the streets. It was allowed to spread again. But this has happened in many other countries too, probably because they hoped it wouldn't spread and / or didn't know. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but the breaks were released too quickly. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:05 - Jan 5 with 1221 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:54 - Jan 5 by Saintsforeverj |
You touch on the problem really in that we released the breaks too much. We all saw everyone packing onto beaches in the summer, the parties in pubs / houses, people packed on to tube trains, people packed into. Leicester Square, the BLM protests amongst others. And yes, they should have banned travel unless you were tested. Imo, all of those things should have been dealt with robustly with army on the streets. It was allowed to spread again. But this has happened in many other countries too, probably because they hoped it wouldn't spread and / or didn't know. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but the breaks were released too quickly. |
That seems to be the obvious conclusion, yes.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I am sure 'positive bias' made us all too confident that we had already seen it off.
Either way it's terribly depressing that we didn't properly suppress is back then and where we are now. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:10 - Jan 5 with 1221 views | Bicester_North |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:46 - Jan 5 by DorsetIan |
You can take the view that we don't know what would have happened but that's a very complacent response if you ask me.
I think it's pretty reasonable to conclude that - for whatever reason - we missed a massive trick back then and we are certainly paying for it big time now, even if maybe there are some positives hidden somewhere for what we did (or didn't do).
Never mind the number of dead, the economic damage caused by the second November lockdown, then the pre-Christmas retail shutdown and now another how many weeks of another full lockdown is eye-watering and that economic damage will also bring its own long term heath and social costs.
I think if you are going to try ague that all this might be worth it because of the possibly benefits of what actually happened, you're going to have to be a bit more specific about those benefits than 'we just don't know'. |
So are you saying we should have kept all the restrictions all through summer and early autumn then when cases and deaths were minimal? Resulting in all the economic and social problems that would’ve gone with it.
And then continued that into this winter.
If you were prime minister you’d have done that? | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:17 - Jan 5 with 1213 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:10 - Jan 5 by Bicester_North |
So are you saying we should have kept all the restrictions all through summer and early autumn then when cases and deaths were minimal? Resulting in all the economic and social problems that would’ve gone with it.
And then continued that into this winter.
If you were prime minister you’d have done that? |
I'm saying that, with the benefit of hindsight, we obviously missed a trick. We had it at a 9 count and missed the knockout.
That's all I am saying. I don't know what that trick was or what I would have done.
When the inevitable inquiry comes we might find out where exactly we went wrong, but went wrong we certainly did. And it's depressing. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:25 - Jan 5 with 1190 views | Sadoldgit |
| Christmas Carnage? on 17:53 - Jan 5 by 1885_SFC |
I see that as of today, the UK has vaccinated more people than any other country on earth except Israel & Bahrain.
Your last couple of sentences are - therefore - bollocks. |
I’m sure that will be a great comfort to those lying in hospital beds hooked up to ventilators. | | | |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:26 - Jan 5 with 1190 views | JaySaint |
Phew.... this could have been a mess if it spreads through humans.
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:27 - Jan 5 with 1189 views | Bicester_North |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:17 - Jan 5 by DorsetIan |
I'm saying that, with the benefit of hindsight, we obviously missed a trick. We had it at a 9 count and missed the knockout.
That's all I am saying. I don't know what that trick was or what I would have done.
When the inevitable inquiry comes we might find out where exactly we went wrong, but went wrong we certainly did. And it's depressing. |
If we locked down then and didn’t find a vaccine it would’ve likely just come back again and again and we’d never beat it.
The main thing is the vaccines have been found quicker than anticipated and the UK seems to be ahead of the game in rolling it out. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:28 - Jan 5 with 1188 views | 1885_SFC |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:25 - Jan 5 by Sadoldgit |
I’m sure that will be a great comfort to those lying in hospital beds hooked up to ventilators. |
Many of whom only have themselves to blame. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:30 - Jan 5 with 1185 views | Bicester_North |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:25 - Jan 5 by Sadoldgit |
I’m sure that will be a great comfort to those lying in hospital beds hooked up to ventilators. |
Or those who’ve missed vital cancer treatment & appointments because of lockdowns and restrictions and are now or soon to be dying. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:38 - Jan 5 with 1165 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:27 - Jan 5 by Bicester_North |
If we locked down then and didn’t find a vaccine it would’ve likely just come back again and again and we’d never beat it.
The main thing is the vaccines have been found quicker than anticipated and the UK seems to be ahead of the game in rolling it out. |
Are you suggesting that what we didn't do to control vaccine in the summer, sped up the process of finding a vaccine?
If not, I am not sure why you are linking the too.
It's great that we have a vaccine. It's not great that we are now desperate for it...again. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:42 - Jan 5 with 1161 views | DorsetIan |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:28 - Jan 5 by 1885_SFC |
Many of whom only have themselves to blame. |
Do you have any stats to back that up?
It's a pretty cheap shot, if you don't. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:43 - Jan 5 with 1155 views | Bicester_North |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:38 - Jan 5 by DorsetIan |
Are you suggesting that what we didn't do to control vaccine in the summer, sped up the process of finding a vaccine?
If not, I am not sure why you are linking the too.
It's great that we have a vaccine. It's not great that we are now desperate for it...again. |
You suggested restrictions shouldn’t have been lifted in the summer.
Restrictions in summer wouldn’t have beaten covid like you were suggesting, just delayed it.
In summer, we didn’t know when a vaccine might have been available.
If we had spent summer locked down and then no vaccine was found, covid would just have come back again and again anyway, so we would’ve had loads more costs to society (from the summer lockdown) with no real benefit. | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:45 - Jan 5 with 1153 views | 1885_SFC |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:42 - Jan 5 by DorsetIan |
Do you have any stats to back that up?
It's a pretty cheap shot, if you don't. |
Oh please - spare me your faux outrage Ian.
We both know the current spike is due to mixing at Xmas. You don't have to be Dr Witty to work that one out! | |
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:51 - Jan 5 with 1141 views | Saintsforeverj |
You could blame the messaging, but imo, people were stupid to crowd on the beach, protest in London, people stopped socially distancing, not everyone wore masks, people started mixing in households - who do we blame for those things?
We went to a good local restaurant in the summer. There was a one way system, sanitiser, distanced tables. It was safe. But we saw people go to the bar without a mask, people ignored the one way system etc. We saw hundreds congregate in various places. Who can we blame in all honesty?
We all saw the people going on holiday. Why couldn't they wait for next year!!! [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 19:03]
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| Christmas Carnage? on 18:55 - Jan 5 with 1133 views | grumpy |
| Christmas Carnage? on 18:45 - Jan 5 by 1885_SFC |
Oh please - spare me your faux outrage Ian.
We both know the current spike is due to mixing at Xmas. You don't have to be Dr Witty to work that one out! |
What about the new variant? |  | | |
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