| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 14:46 - Apr 8 with 1762 views | jonno |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 13:03 - Apr 8 by Antti_Heinola |
Feel your pain Jonno, but can'#t really agree about the players being tired bit. The idea that pro athletes don't or can't get tired is a weird concept. A boxer won't be doing hardcore training in the days leading up to a fight in order to conserve energy. An athlete will build up to peak fitness before an Olympics - not continually gun it right up until the starting pistol. And players playing Sat-Tue, Sat-Tue (and more over Xmas) will get tired - mentally and physically. And even if they aren't 'exhausted' as such, if they're playing a team that has more sensibly rotated the squad so that players are fresher, they will be 'exhausted' in comparison to their opponents. People will say 'we didn't rotate in the old days' - but that's the point - or isn't the point? - because no one did, so it's an irrelevant comparison.
Norwich is a better comparison but two things really: mentally, it's easier to play when you're confident and winning - it's foolhardy to rule out the mental aspect. Secondly, they've played eight games between 16th Feb and 6th April - just one of those was midweek. In comparison, we played eight times between 2nd Feb and 26th Feb; five times between 22nd Dec and 6th Jan. Some players did get rested for the Cup game - but not important ones who were clearly in need of it like Freeman and Eze.
You might be right about laziness and downing tools - I don't know if that's the case - feels a bit of an easy and comfortable assumption to me, when it's a lot more complex. I see a team that played really quite well through the autumn. Was motivated for the FA Cup. That suffered some really tough setbacks and some unfortunate results they didn't really deserve. That was not rotated properly to keep key players fresher. And finally a team that due to a whole series of things (rotation, unfortunate late results, some sloppiness, and playing the best sides in the division in one glut of games) completely lost its confidence. And then, finally, and more recently, I'd agree, a team with players who have not remotely played to required standards.
To say ' The simple fact is that the players believed they had done enough by Christmas and have downed tools since then' is wrong because it's not a fact - it's your interpretation of events. The players certainly didn't down tools in numerous games in Jan and Feb. Played well in the cup games, were excellent second half v Birmingham, did a good job at Bristol etc. I think it's more of a case of a horrible rut they haven't been able to lift themselves out of. And now, they won't. |
We'll have to agree to disagree mate. I think you are just making excuses for them. |  | |  |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 14:52 - Apr 8 with 1738 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 14:46 - Apr 8 by jonno |
We'll have to agree to disagree mate. I think you are just making excuses for them. |
fair enough mate. Not making excuses though - this is an awful, awful run and there are no excuses - but there are reasons, which is an important distinction I think. And just saying 'they've downed tools, they're lazy' ignores all kinds of factors - some in the control of players / management; others not so much.
Things are rarely, if ever, as simple as 'oh they've stopped trying', that's all I'm saying really. |  |
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| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 15:19 - Apr 8 with 1687 views | PinnerPaul |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 14:52 - Apr 8 by Antti_Heinola |
fair enough mate. Not making excuses though - this is an awful, awful run and there are no excuses - but there are reasons, which is an important distinction I think. And just saying 'they've downed tools, they're lazy' ignores all kinds of factors - some in the control of players / management; others not so much.
Things are rarely, if ever, as simple as 'oh they've stopped trying', that's all I'm saying really. |
Yeah I agree AH - its an easy get out.
A manager once dismissed the non trying attitude, stating that there were many arguments to counter that, with the best being that no human being wants thousands, well in this case, hundreds, of people yelling abuse at you - so who wouldn't at least try.
Of course there are degrees of effort, it would bit silly to pretend otherwise, but I'm with you in that the not trying, lost the dressing room card is often played, but I'm really not convinced its the case that often. |  | | |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 16:17 - Apr 8 with 1612 views | nix |
Brilliant report Clive. Just two things: I'm not sure that Lynch was worth a two rating, and I think Eustace and McClaren should both be gone. Both are as inspirational as a soggy rice pudding. Surely we can do better than that. Surely.... |  | | |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 17:18 - Apr 8 with 1532 views | Northernr |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 15:19 - Apr 8 by PinnerPaul |
Yeah I agree AH - its an easy get out.
A manager once dismissed the non trying attitude, stating that there were many arguments to counter that, with the best being that no human being wants thousands, well in this case, hundreds, of people yelling abuse at you - so who wouldn't at least try.
Of course there are degrees of effort, it would bit silly to pretend otherwise, but I'm with you in that the not trying, lost the dressing room card is often played, but I'm really not convinced its the case that often. |
Did you think the effort levels were where they should have been on Saturday? |  | | |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 18:40 - Apr 8 with 1426 views | PinnerPaul |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 17:18 - Apr 8 by Northernr |
Did you think the effort levels were where they should have been on Saturday? |
Haven't been able to bring myself to watch any of it Clive.
You were there, you've watched (nearly) every match live for God knows how long, so if you think that they don't/weren't 'trying' I respect that opinion.
I do think though that lack of ability is often mistaken for lack of effort! | | | |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 19:45 - Apr 8 with 1365 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Great writing. |  |
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| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 23:44 - Apr 8 with 1190 views | FredManRave |
We're as bad at football as you are good at writing about it Clive.
Somebody said in the comments section that they'd forwarded the report on to Hoos and I also think Ferdinand should read it. He's the only ex-pro and Ranger at the club in a position of authority that actually "gets" us which is why he should read and reply to this. But he won't do either. |  |
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| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 08:06 - Apr 9 with 1073 views | MCterminator |
For me there's two aspects to hiring and firing managers.
The first is just simply an effort to get the best manager in charge of your team that you can. In that sense, sacking Hart to replace him with Warnock was a very good move, and replacing Warnock with Hughes was (especially with hindsight a very bad one). Other than that, over the last 10 years we've generally replaced mediocre/poorish managers with mediocre/poorish managers with mediocre/poorish results. And in this sense sacking McLaren and handing the keys to Eustace looks...not smart.
The second aspect to the appointments business is having something that could be described as an 'approach'. This approach at times might need to take precedent over the first aspect (e.g. you don't appoint Allerdyce, even if he's available, if he doesnt fit your approach). And this is where we've really hashed it as a club. Anyone like to try and summarise our approach to hiring managers? Hmm. The board need to take their responsibility for this vacuum. But I have to say, large sections of the fanbase have created their own culture when it comes to deciding when to sack a manager. It's with complete disregard for whether we've got someone better lined up and is all about whether someone 'deserves' the sack, whether things are 'unacceptable' and a cry for 'something to be done'. Maybe just maybe, we need to take a bit of responsibility for 19 managerial changes in 10 years with limited success... | | | |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 08:56 - Apr 9 with 1027 views | switchingcode |
Excellent report as usual Clive,should pin that up in the dressing room. | | | |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 09:57 - Apr 9 with 974 views | Mick_S |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 17:18 - Apr 8 by Northernr |
Did you think the effort levels were where they should have been on Saturday? |
There was a moment towards the end of the game when Furlong had to ask three times for someone to show for his throw-in. It is just not acceptable - even if the team are are four down. They don't want the ball and this is going to be worked on by our opponents. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 10:04 - Apr 9 with 960 views | daveB |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 18:40 - Apr 8 by PinnerPaul |
Haven't been able to bring myself to watch any of it Clive.
You were there, you've watched (nearly) every match live for God knows how long, so if you think that they don't/weren't 'trying' I respect that opinion.
I do think though that lack of ability is often mistaken for lack of effort! |
watch the highlights of the Norwich game, you'll see it was a lack of effort and ability |  | | |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 10:42 - Apr 9 with 910 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 09:57 - Apr 9 by Mick_S |
There was a moment towards the end of the game when Furlong had to ask three times for someone to show for his throw-in. It is just not acceptable - even if the team are are four down. They don't want the ball and this is going to be worked on by our opponents. |
Spot on: a number of players were hiding from the ball on Saturday. Cousins in particular. |  | | |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 09:51 - Apr 10 with 754 views | francisbowles |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 13:03 - Apr 8 by Antti_Heinola |
Feel your pain Jonno, but can'#t really agree about the players being tired bit. The idea that pro athletes don't or can't get tired is a weird concept. A boxer won't be doing hardcore training in the days leading up to a fight in order to conserve energy. An athlete will build up to peak fitness before an Olympics - not continually gun it right up until the starting pistol. And players playing Sat-Tue, Sat-Tue (and more over Xmas) will get tired - mentally and physically. And even if they aren't 'exhausted' as such, if they're playing a team that has more sensibly rotated the squad so that players are fresher, they will be 'exhausted' in comparison to their opponents. People will say 'we didn't rotate in the old days' - but that's the point - or isn't the point? - because no one did, so it's an irrelevant comparison.
Norwich is a better comparison but two things really: mentally, it's easier to play when you're confident and winning - it's foolhardy to rule out the mental aspect. Secondly, they've played eight games between 16th Feb and 6th April - just one of those was midweek. In comparison, we played eight times between 2nd Feb and 26th Feb; five times between 22nd Dec and 6th Jan. Some players did get rested for the Cup game - but not important ones who were clearly in need of it like Freeman and Eze.
You might be right about laziness and downing tools - I don't know if that's the case - feels a bit of an easy and comfortable assumption to me, when it's a lot more complex. I see a team that played really quite well through the autumn. Was motivated for the FA Cup. That suffered some really tough setbacks and some unfortunate results they didn't really deserve. That was not rotated properly to keep key players fresher. And finally a team that due to a whole series of things (rotation, unfortunate late results, some sloppiness, and playing the best sides in the division in one glut of games) completely lost its confidence. And then, finally, and more recently, I'd agree, a team with players who have not remotely played to required standards.
To say ' The simple fact is that the players believed they had done enough by Christmas and have downed tools since then' is wrong because it's not a fact - it's your interpretation of events. The players certainly didn't down tools in numerous games in Jan and Feb. Played well in the cup games, were excellent second half v Birmingham, did a good job at Bristol etc. I think it's more of a case of a horrible rut they haven't been able to lift themselves out of. And now, they won't. |
Wins the award for perfect summary. | | | |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 13:31 - Apr 10 with 676 views | R_from_afar |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 13:03 - Apr 8 by Antti_Heinola |
Feel your pain Jonno, but can'#t really agree about the players being tired bit. The idea that pro athletes don't or can't get tired is a weird concept. A boxer won't be doing hardcore training in the days leading up to a fight in order to conserve energy. An athlete will build up to peak fitness before an Olympics - not continually gun it right up until the starting pistol. And players playing Sat-Tue, Sat-Tue (and more over Xmas) will get tired - mentally and physically. And even if they aren't 'exhausted' as such, if they're playing a team that has more sensibly rotated the squad so that players are fresher, they will be 'exhausted' in comparison to their opponents. People will say 'we didn't rotate in the old days' - but that's the point - or isn't the point? - because no one did, so it's an irrelevant comparison.
Norwich is a better comparison but two things really: mentally, it's easier to play when you're confident and winning - it's foolhardy to rule out the mental aspect. Secondly, they've played eight games between 16th Feb and 6th April - just one of those was midweek. In comparison, we played eight times between 2nd Feb and 26th Feb; five times between 22nd Dec and 6th Jan. Some players did get rested for the Cup game - but not important ones who were clearly in need of it like Freeman and Eze.
You might be right about laziness and downing tools - I don't know if that's the case - feels a bit of an easy and comfortable assumption to me, when it's a lot more complex. I see a team that played really quite well through the autumn. Was motivated for the FA Cup. That suffered some really tough setbacks and some unfortunate results they didn't really deserve. That was not rotated properly to keep key players fresher. And finally a team that due to a whole series of things (rotation, unfortunate late results, some sloppiness, and playing the best sides in the division in one glut of games) completely lost its confidence. And then, finally, and more recently, I'd agree, a team with players who have not remotely played to required standards.
To say ' The simple fact is that the players believed they had done enough by Christmas and have downed tools since then' is wrong because it's not a fact - it's your interpretation of events. The players certainly didn't down tools in numerous games in Jan and Feb. Played well in the cup games, were excellent second half v Birmingham, did a good job at Bristol etc. I think it's more of a case of a horrible rut they haven't been able to lift themselves out of. And now, they won't. |
We fans are to some extent complicit in this issue of not rotating the players because we wanted Steve to put out our strongest team in the cup matches.
Lack of confidence has a huge impact but the levels of concentration and effort were unacceptable last Saturday, plus we weren't doing the basics.
I am praying that the time has come for another one of those miraculous and unexpected performances Rangers occasionally manage. Alternatively, it could be another humbling. Oh heck... |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 14:17 - Apr 10 with 639 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 13:31 - Apr 10 by R_from_afar |
We fans are to some extent complicit in this issue of not rotating the players because we wanted Steve to put out our strongest team in the cup matches.
Lack of confidence has a huge impact but the levels of concentration and effort were unacceptable last Saturday, plus we weren't doing the basics.
I am praying that the time has come for another one of those miraculous and unexpected performances Rangers occasionally manage. Alternatively, it could be another humbling. Oh heck... |
Absolutely. Zero excuses either for Saturday or for Bolton. | |
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| Spot the difference, QPR annihilated at Norwich - Report on 14:32 - Apr 10 with 620 views | Snipper |
That report is one of the most brutally honest things I’ve ever read. In fact, I’d say the most brutally honest. Absolutely brilliant.
It’s going to be a very long winding road ahead before our club gets itself right. |  | | |
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