| The proposed loan of Fede 19:49 - Jul 23 with 18546 views | oldcob |
to Newcastle. Am I the only one who sees no sense in this? Newcastle gain, they get an experienced Premiership International centre back. Fede gains he's playing the standard of football he wishes. Apart from saving Fede's wages, what are Swansea City getting out of this? I can't see anything. Why would we agree to this?
[Post edited 23 Jul 2018 20:01]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:34 - Jul 25 with 1441 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:27 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
In fact, Dim, it is almost as if you were proposing we should evaluate the success of Laudrup's strategy, which you refer to as 'money shot', on the basis of how much profit was made!
That's funny, because that is precisely how a business would evaluate performance which you just said could not and is not done.
So we have in fact gone full circle with you effectively arguing against yourself.
And still the world turns. |
You are desperately clutching at straws.
This discussion is about, and always has been about whether the Laudrup strategy was a long term or short term one. Just because you have not understood it for the majority of the time doesn’t mean you can now create a strawman argument.
Whether it is a long term or short term strategy cannot be measured by results. It’s utter nonsense. I am pretty sure you know that by now too.
As usual you would rather act the fool than hold your hands up yet again with another admission you knew absolutely nothing of what you were talking about and completely missed the point of any debate. |  |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:38 - Jul 25 with 1432 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:34 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
You are desperately clutching at straws.
This discussion is about, and always has been about whether the Laudrup strategy was a long term or short term one. Just because you have not understood it for the majority of the time doesn’t mean you can now create a strawman argument.
Whether it is a long term or short term strategy cannot be measured by results. It’s utter nonsense. I am pretty sure you know that by now too.
As usual you would rather act the fool than hold your hands up yet again with another admission you knew absolutely nothing of what you were talking about and completely missed the point of any debate. |
"Whether it is a long term or short term strategy cannot be measured by results"
Roughly 77.6 million google hits say you're wrong.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=measuring+strategic+performance |  |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:45 - Jul 25 with 1404 views | E20Jack |
Oh my word. You just have to be trolling.
7 billion earthlings must think you are a dunce. You quote something and type something completely different into Google.
You are now back to the strawman of strategic performance. How a strategy performs and entered it into Google which is even funnier.
The discussion is WHAT IS THE STRATEGIC APPROACH. Long or short term.
Seriously quit while you are considerably behind. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 19:50]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:51 - Jul 25 with 1385 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:45 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Oh my word. You just have to be trolling.
7 billion earthlings must think you are a dunce. You quote something and type something completely different into Google.
You are now back to the strawman of strategic performance. How a strategy performs and entered it into Google which is even funnier.
The discussion is WHAT IS THE STRATEGIC APPROACH. Long or short term.
Seriously quit while you are considerably behind. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 19:50]
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A strategy is always long term, Dim.
Look it up in your favourite dictionary.
Pleased to have helped. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:58 - Jul 25 with 1361 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:51 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
A strategy is always long term, Dim.
Look it up in your favourite dictionary.
Pleased to have helped. |
 That has to be the most stupid thing you have ever said, and there is stiff competition.
In your desperate attempt to wriggle free, you have somehow changed “strategic approach” to “strategy” and using a dictionary definition of the word not used to get a get out of jail card.
A short term strategic approach could be licencing a product and agreeing a % and ending your involvement, instead of taking it to market yourself. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:03 - Jul 25 with 1359 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 19:58 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
That has to be the most stupid thing you have ever said, and there is stiff competition.
In your desperate attempt to wriggle free, you have somehow changed “strategic approach” to “strategy” and using a dictionary definition of the word not used to get a get out of jail card.
A short term strategic approach could be licencing a product and agreeing a % and ending your involvement, instead of taking it to market yourself. |
"A short term strategic approach could be licencing a product and agreeing a % and ending your involvement, instead of taking it to market yourself. "
Err, no it couldn't, a licensing decision is always strategic, involving an evaluation of the alternative risk return to manufacturing and selling in house.
A short term decision could theoretically be to license something for a year, but in practice nobody would go through the legal and marketing complexity of a licensing agreement for such a short period for any product of any significance. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:08 - Jul 25 with 1342 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:03 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
"A short term strategic approach could be licencing a product and agreeing a % and ending your involvement, instead of taking it to market yourself. "
Err, no it couldn't, a licensing decision is always strategic, involving an evaluation of the alternative risk return to manufacturing and selling in house.
A short term decision could theoretically be to license something for a year, but in practice nobody would go through the legal and marketing complexity of a licensing agreement for such a short period for any product of any significance. |
Err yes it could. A licencing decision takes however long as the product owner wishes to take. It is comparable to scale. If in average a product of that ilk takes 4 years to get to production and to market a short term strategic decision would be to licence it and get it handed over within a few weeks.
There list is endless.
But nice to see you clutching to absolutely anything after making brain fade after brain fade of strawman arguments based on a complete and hopeless lack of understanding of anything discussed.
It’s clearly twigged now though and you are trying this desperate tactic | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:16 - Jul 25 with 1323 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:08 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Err yes it could. A licencing decision takes however long as the product owner wishes to take. It is comparable to scale. If in average a product of that ilk takes 4 years to get to production and to market a short term strategic decision would be to licence it and get it handed over within a few weeks.
There list is endless.
But nice to see you clutching to absolutely anything after making brain fade after brain fade of strawman arguments based on a complete and hopeless lack of understanding of anything discussed.
It’s clearly twigged now though and you are trying this desperate tactic |
I am afraid you are getting yourself confused mixing up all sorts of different concepts and terms you don't really understand.
If I may be allowed, the original confusion stems from the fact you mistakenly used the term strategy to make your analysis sound credible.
What you actually meant is that Laudrup and Toots are a pair of conmen who were out to defraud the club. Yes?
Except that sounds ridiculous even for you, so you polish this particular turd up with some mumbo-jumbo management terms you have just googled and can not define in any meaningful sense.
Strip all that away, and we are left with a huge waste of time. As always. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:21 - Jul 25 with 1297 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:16 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
I am afraid you are getting yourself confused mixing up all sorts of different concepts and terms you don't really understand.
If I may be allowed, the original confusion stems from the fact you mistakenly used the term strategy to make your analysis sound credible.
What you actually meant is that Laudrup and Toots are a pair of conmen who were out to defraud the club. Yes?
Except that sounds ridiculous even for you, so you polish this particular turd up with some mumbo-jumbo management terms you have just googled and can not define in any meaningful sense.
Strip all that away, and we are left with a huge waste of time. As always. |
Nope, sorry matey, you ain’t wriggling out of this one. You are in a right pickle.
Again twist and wriggle all you like, my point is absolutely crystal clear, want it in bold to reference it?
“LAUDRUP’S ERA WAS A STRATEGICALLY SHORT TERM APPROACH”
this is also shadowed by
“YOU CANNOT DETERMINE STRATEGIC APPROACH BY SHORT TERM RESULT”
Pick which one you want to go with and have another go. Try and understand them this time - google will be your trusty friend as always. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:24 - Jul 25 with 1296 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:21 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Nope, sorry matey, you ain’t wriggling out of this one. You are in a right pickle.
Again twist and wriggle all you like, my point is absolutely crystal clear, want it in bold to reference it?
“LAUDRUP’S ERA WAS A STRATEGICALLY SHORT TERM APPROACH”
this is also shadowed by
“YOU CANNOT DETERMINE STRATEGIC APPROACH BY SHORT TERM RESULT”
Pick which one you want to go with and have another go. Try and understand them this time - google will be your trusty friend as always. |
Sorry, Dim, but it's all meaningless bollocks. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 20:24]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:29 - Jul 25 with 1277 views | magicdaps10 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:26 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Nice edit
Translation
“Look I’m trying to wriggle out of this, repeating the common sense and factual points in bold really isn’t helping me here.”  |
Give over you clown, half your posts are edited.
I know you wont answer this and will just flip it as usual, how old are you and do you have kids? |  |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:33 - Jul 25 with 1263 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:29 - Jul 25 by magicdaps10 |
Give over you clown, half your posts are edited.
I know you wont answer this and will just flip it as usual, how old are you and do you have kids? |
Of course they are. But they are correct so it’s a moot point.
What’s your name and what is your address? | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:37 - Jul 25 with 1255 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:26 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Nice edit
Translation
“Look I’m trying to wriggle out of this, repeating the common sense and factual points in bold really isn’t helping me here.” |
No Dim, you're talking meaningless bollocks, as usual.
You can't tell me what the point is, because there is no point, as we definitively established less than an hour ago when we came back full circle with you arguing against yourself. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:42 - Jul 25 with 1244 views | magicdaps10 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:33 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Of course they are. But they are correct so it’s a moot point.
What’s your name and what is your address? |
Sorry E20, I am happily married so dont want to pass on my details.
Again, you obviously missed my irony in the post about who you are. Dont really care who you are, I have a idea but really couldnt care two hoots.
If I wanted to find you, I would drive to the nearest church and climb to the top, I am sure I would find you up there. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:43 - Jul 25 with 1231 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:37 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
No Dim, you're talking meaningless bollocks, as usual.
You can't tell me what the point is, because there is no point, as we definitively established less than an hour ago when we came back full circle with you arguing against yourself. |
Arguing against myself?
Is that when you typed an irrelevant question into google and tried to pass it off as my point even though I hadn’t said it a single time? Or even hinted at it.
The debate is not pointless at all, the debate is crystal clear and in bold just for you.
I am waiting for you to take another stab at it.
I can only assume now you have grasped it you realise there is no argument, yet have dug yourself a hole the size of Denmark.  | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:55 - Jul 25 with 1190 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:43 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Arguing against myself?
Is that when you typed an irrelevant question into google and tried to pass it off as my point even though I hadn’t said it a single time? Or even hinted at it.
The debate is not pointless at all, the debate is crystal clear and in bold just for you.
I am waiting for you to take another stab at it.
I can only assume now you have grasped it you realise there is no argument, yet have dug yourself a hole the size of Denmark. |
You appear to have great difficulty making positive statements. I think in order to break the impasse we need to resort to your tested technique of saying what you don't mean.
So to understand what you mean by
“LAUDRUP’S ERA WAS A STRATEGICALLY SHORT TERM APPROACH”
. . . you can explain what you understand by a:
STRATEGICALLY LONG TERM APPROACH
Then we can try to work from there. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:57 - Jul 25 with 1180 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 10:21 - Jul 24 by Tom1912 |
I can see the argument they were short term but I don't think it's fair to say it cost the club dearly.
Michu was £2m and was easily worth it for that season.
Chico was £2m and Hernandez £5m, and we got £3-4m back for both from memory.
JDG would have had a loan fee but again, worth it for the seasons he had for us.
Canas, Pozuelo and Amat would all have been relatively cheap acquisitions in PL terms.
There really wasn't a huge outlay on Laudrup's signings. Transfer fees and wages were being managed at a sustainable level at that point. And the big signing we made-Bony, we sold at a profit. [Post edited 24 Jul 2018 10:22]
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The underselling of the Spanish "contingent" (Monk used another word) was Huw's method of giving Garry Monk everything he wanted. He wanted the Spaniards out, Huw obliged. He didn't seem to care how much money we lost. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:00 - Jul 25 with 1165 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:55 - Jul 25 by Shaky |
You appear to have great difficulty making positive statements. I think in order to break the impasse we need to resort to your tested technique of saying what you don't mean.
So to understand what you mean by
“LAUDRUP’S ERA WAS A STRATEGICALLY SHORT TERM APPROACH”
. . . you can explain what you understand by a:
STRATEGICALLY LONG TERM APPROACH
Then we can try to work from there. |
Why do you deem a short term approach to be a negative and a long term approach to be positive?
The is no impasse Shakey hand, my points are in bold and crystal clear.
THE LAUDRUP ERA WAS A STRATEGICALLY SHORT TERM APPROACH
and
YOU CANNOT DETERMINE STRATEGIC APPROACH BY SHORT TERM RESULTS
I’m not defining everything it isn’t
By all means tell me how Laudrups era was a long term approach and tell me how you can determine a strategic approach by short term results.
Off you go. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:01 - Jul 25 with 1166 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 18:19 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Of course it is, as I have said many times, it is a strategy present in every single approach and not unique to one. So determining on whether one is a long or short term approach based on something present in both approaches makes little sense.
To judge and compare you look for differences not similarities present in all by default. The differences of course is that they/he takes a cut regardless and narrows the field of choice. But let’s take it away from signings as people clearly are not on the same page regarding this part f the transfer policy.
I will repeat regarding sales. Tutumlu took a slice of ALL outgoing players whether he represented them or not, whether he brought them in or not, whether he was even there when they signed for us or not. Is this a long term business model? Or again is short termist deals looking to take from a pot needed for a club with limited income to grow? |
On the last point, the issue is that again the cut is paid to some intermediary (even when we sell players) under every management team. The difference is that it was paid to the same person. Every transaction has buy side and sell side transaction costs. It’s ridiculous, but that’s the way it is,
As I have said, I don’t agree with the methodology, I just disagree with the statement that it is necessarily short termist, as I’ve now said a few times.
At the end of the day, anything which makes money is in the long term interests of the club as it gives us the opportunity to grow. They had a way of doing so, which I didn’t like, but just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it was short term thinking.
Even seemingly short term decisions (eg. bring in a loan player) isn’t evidence of short term thinking if it achieves a longer term goal (eg. stay in the division, achieve a higher placing, get into Europe, whatever it may be). | | | |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:04 - Jul 25 with 1153 views | E20Jack |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:01 - Jul 25 by londonlisa2001 |
On the last point, the issue is that again the cut is paid to some intermediary (even when we sell players) under every management team. The difference is that it was paid to the same person. Every transaction has buy side and sell side transaction costs. It’s ridiculous, but that’s the way it is,
As I have said, I don’t agree with the methodology, I just disagree with the statement that it is necessarily short termist, as I’ve now said a few times.
At the end of the day, anything which makes money is in the long term interests of the club as it gives us the opportunity to grow. They had a way of doing so, which I didn’t like, but just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it was short term thinking.
Even seemingly short term decisions (eg. bring in a loan player) isn’t evidence of short term thinking if it achieves a longer term goal (eg. stay in the division, achieve a higher placing, get into Europe, whatever it may be). |
Are you suggesting that Tutumlu’s cut of sales was instead of the actual players agents? I don’t believe that for a second, in fact we know that not to be true due to the agent of Wilfried Bony for one. Which means they aren’t related costs it is extra costs taking from the clubs coffers beyond what is reasonable which will stunt long term growth for short term financial gain.
So to bring this back to the specific, as we are not likely going to agree...
Do you think the Laudrup and Tutumlu era was a sustainable long term model? [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 21:10]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:11 - Jul 25 with 1118 views | Shaky |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:00 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Why do you deem a short term approach to be a negative and a long term approach to be positive?
The is no impasse Shakey hand, my points are in bold and crystal clear.
THE LAUDRUP ERA WAS A STRATEGICALLY SHORT TERM APPROACH
and
YOU CANNOT DETERMINE STRATEGIC APPROACH BY SHORT TERM RESULTS
I’m not defining everything it isn’t
By all means tell me how Laudrups era was a long term approach and tell me how you can determine a strategic approach by short term results.
Off you go. |
You have made no points that have any meaning, Dim, because you offer no yardsticks.
12 hours is long term for a mayfly.
10 years is short term relative to the rotational cycle of Uranus.
SHORT LONG TERM SRRATEGY APPROACH.
It's all a load of vacuous bollocks from a frustrated little loser who's knowledge of business strategy can be written on the back of a postage stamp. | |
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:14 - Jul 25 with 1105 views | Wingstandwood |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 20:57 - Jul 25 by Brynmill_Jack |
The underselling of the Spanish "contingent" (Monk used another word) was Huw's method of giving Garry Monk everything he wanted. He wanted the Spaniards out, Huw obliged. He didn't seem to care how much money we lost. |
Aye give me Laudrup, Curtis, the Spaniards and Laudrup's agent before Monk, his equally ruinous collaborating impostors i.e. O'Leary, Pep Clotet and Jenkins D.o.F.
F#cking hell when you look at it now along with all the repercussions it beggars belief. A club appointing a rookie manager with zero Premier League (or any other league either) experience, employing a relentless coaching failure and some useless tw@t from Neath Town who's record with SCFC's U-21's was abysmal.......and add to that having a failed roofing supplies businessman destroy the club from within playing fantasy football manager.
It so surreal when you look at it! Utter farce! A Premier League club run with amateurism/incompetence-standards that would shame a Welsh League division. [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 21:15]
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| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:17 - Jul 25 with 1095 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The proposed loan of Fede on 21:04 - Jul 25 by E20Jack |
Are you suggesting that Tutumlu’s cut of sales was instead of the actual players agents? I don’t believe that for a second, in fact we know that not to be true due to the agent of Wilfried Bony for one. Which means they aren’t related costs it is extra costs taking from the clubs coffers beyond what is reasonable which will stunt long term growth for short term financial gain.
So to bring this back to the specific, as we are not likely going to agree...
Do you think the Laudrup and Tutumlu era was a sustainable long term model? [Post edited 25 Jul 2018 21:10]
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Bony left well after Tutumlu had gone.
Yes it was due to their ability to source players for the club that we couldn’t have brought in otherwise thus increasing our profits.
I didn’t agree with it, however.
I had no problems when Tutu was told to sling his hook, and I agreed with the sacking of Laudrup at the time he was sacked. He seemed to lose interest once Tutu went in my opinion. But that’s very different to the question posed. | | | |
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