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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:03 - Jun 14 by donkeylabour
I know it's not a very popular position but aside from what I see are benefits from staying in like access to single market, cooperation across boundaries, lower costs, peace etc etc
I happen to believe that we have a duty to our European neighbours to be a leader. When the sh1t hits the fan I don't Britain to be carping at the sidelines, as this bitter isolationist Country. I want us to have an Internationalist outlook - I agree with what Churchill talked about post War.
The EU is still young, it is a work in progress I don't want to leave something when things get tough. That's the cowards way and we're better than that.
I concur.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:34 - Jun 14 with 2003 views
"Everything I hear now suggests that the votes for Leave are piling up, while the Remain cause is faltering and floundering. The betrayed supporters of both major parties now feel free to take revenge on their smug and arrogant leaders.
It has been a mystery to me that these voters stayed loyal to organisations that repeatedly spat on them from a great height. Labour doesn’t love the poor. It loves the London elite. The Tories don’t love the country. They love only money.
The referendum, in which the parties are split and uncertain, has freed us all from silly tribal loyalties and allowed us to vote instead according to reason. We can all vote against the heedless, arrogant snobs who inflicted mass immigration on the poor (while making sure they lived far from its consequences themselves).
And nobody can call us ‘racists’ for doing so. That’s not to say that the voters are ignoring the actual issue of EU membership as a whole. As I have known for decades, this country has gained nothing from belonging to the European Union, and lost a great deal.
If Zambia can be independent, why cannot we? If membership is so good for us, why has it been accompanied by savage industrial and commercial decline? If the Brussels system of sclerotic, centralised bureaucracy is so good, why doesn’t anyone else in the world adopt it?
If — as I think we will — we vote to leave the EU on June 23, a democratically elected Parliament, which wants to stay, will confront a force as great as itself — a national vote, equally democratic, which wants to quit. Are we about to find out what actually happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?"
Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:34 - Jun 14 by Nookiejack
Article by Peter Hitchens
"Everything I hear now suggests that the votes for Leave are piling up, while the Remain cause is faltering and floundering. The betrayed supporters of both major parties now feel free to take revenge on their smug and arrogant leaders.
It has been a mystery to me that these voters stayed loyal to organisations that repeatedly spat on them from a great height. Labour doesn’t love the poor. It loves the London elite. The Tories don’t love the country. They love only money.
The referendum, in which the parties are split and uncertain, has freed us all from silly tribal loyalties and allowed us to vote instead according to reason. We can all vote against the heedless, arrogant snobs who inflicted mass immigration on the poor (while making sure they lived far from its consequences themselves).
And nobody can call us ‘racists’ for doing so. That’s not to say that the voters are ignoring the actual issue of EU membership as a whole. As I have known for decades, this country has gained nothing from belonging to the European Union, and lost a great deal.
If Zambia can be independent, why cannot we? If membership is so good for us, why has it been accompanied by savage industrial and commercial decline? If the Brussels system of sclerotic, centralised bureaucracy is so good, why doesn’t anyone else in the world adopt it?
If — as I think we will — we vote to leave the EU on June 23, a democratically elected Parliament, which wants to stay, will confront a force as great as itself — a national vote, equally democratic, which wants to quit. Are we about to find out what actually happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?"
Somewhat ignoring two facts there. One that we would probably be pretty p***ed off if we had the standard of living of Zambia. Two that the system is actually adopted in the United States of America to a large extent if we substitute countries for states.
Still, the readers of the Daily Mail probably won't notice.
I don't disagree with him on the smug, arrogant leaders bit.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:13 - Jun 14 with 1936 views
Its a pity that not everyone realises that Labour does not love the poor and the Conservatives indeed do love money more than the country and that the Lib-Dems only love themselves.
There is an awful lot of non enlightened people out there, as a result they get the Government they deserve.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:13 - Jun 14 by trampie
Its a pity that not everyone realises that Labour does not love the poor and the Conservatives indeed do love money more than the country and that the Lib-Dems only love themselves.
There is an awful lot of non enlightened people out there, as a result they get the Government they deserve.
In or out Trample?
‘……. like a moth to Itchy’s flame ……’
Remain With or Leave the EU on 22:13 - Jun 14 by trampie
Its a pity that not everyone realises that Labour does not love the poor and the Conservatives indeed do love money more than the country and that the Lib-Dems only love themselves.
There is an awful lot of non enlightened people out there, as a result they get the Government they deserve.
Do you ever take a day off from your tribal nonsense?
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 23:31 - Jun 14 with 1891 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 23:14 - Jun 14 by donkeylabour
Do you ever take a day off from your tribal nonsense?
My post was in response to one of the posts above, its been noted by others what Labour and the Conservatives are like, just a pity that so many people are politically illiterate.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 19:51 - Jun 13 by somersetsimon
I didn't say that every scientist or published paper had the same result. What percentage of the total is 1350? The most recent figures I saw showed that over 97% of all papers published on the topic supported the man-made side.
To answer your second point, climate is not the same as weather. If anything, you'll expect to see more unusual weather incidents, both hot and cold, as the patterns change. If the average temperature in those locations was reducing over the last century, then you may be on to something.
This is addressed in the Rebuttals to Criticism section of the list:
Criticism: 97% of the climate science literature disagrees with the list.
Rebuttal: No 97% study exists that shows 43,950 peer-reviewed papers explicitly endorsing AGW. The largest study to date, Cook et al. (2013) attempted to categorize 11,944 abstracts (not entire papers) to their level of endorsement of AGW and found 7930 papers (66%) held no position. While only 65 papers (0.5%) explicitly endorsed and quantified AGW as +50% (Humans are the primary cause). A later analysis by Legates et al. (2013) found there to be only 41 papers (0.3%) that supported this definition. Cook et al.'s methodology was so fatally flawed that they falsely classified skeptic papers as endorsing AGW, apparently believing to know more about the papers than their authors. The second part of Cook et al. (2013), the author self-ratings simply confirmed the worthlessness of their methodology, as they were not representative of the sample since only 4% of the authors (1189 of 29,083) rated their own papers and of these 63% disagreed with their abstract ratings. All the other "97% consensus" studies: Doran & Zimmerman (2009), Anderegg et al. (2010) and Oreskes (2004) have been refuted by peer-review.
Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:41 - Jun 14 by londonlisa2001
Somewhat ignoring two facts there. One that we would probably be pretty p***ed off if we had the standard of living of Zambia. Two that the system is actually adopted in the United States of America to a large extent if we substitute countries for states.
Still, the readers of the Daily Mail probably won't notice.
I don't disagree with him on the smug, arrogant leaders bit.
I usually have a lot of sympathy for Lisa's views, but saying that the EU and the USA are examples of the same system is a remarkable claim. It would be more instructive to look at the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC) and what they are doing differently from the EU.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 08:20 - Jun 15 with 1799 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:28 - Jun 14 by Lord_Bony
We ve been through this before my friend... EU law overrides UK law, and the European Court trumps the British Supreme Court.
Most British law derives from Brussels we cant have true sovereignty and independence under those conditions.
There are many many other reasons I would like us to leave but I really dont want to argue with you tonight as its your birthday.. enjoy....
Those who talk about sovereignty are just going to love TTIP and the ISDS (Investor to State Dispute Settlement). This mechanism allows corporations to sue government decisions that impact on future profits. And the outcome is decided in secret, basically. Lovely.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 08:31 - Jun 15 with 1788 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:41 - Jun 14 by londonlisa2001
Somewhat ignoring two facts there. One that we would probably be pretty p***ed off if we had the standard of living of Zambia. Two that the system is actually adopted in the United States of America to a large extent if we substitute countries for states.
Still, the readers of the Daily Mail probably won't notice.
I don't disagree with him on the smug, arrogant leaders bit.
Just a comment on the smug and arrogant leaders. I listened to the Osborne interview on Radio 4 Today program just now ( around quarter past 8 ) he didn't give a straight answer to any of the questions. When asked a question he gave oblique answers and the same platitudes. Whatever the facts of the matter, I don't actually believe the politicians any more. My Leave vote, already done as a postal vote is a protest vote to a certain extent. If the consequences of Leave are as bad as Cameron/Osborne are making out, why the heck did they call the thing in the first place. Idiotic, it is. Even if Leave wins, I can't see us actually leaving in the end. It will however lead to melt down in the Tory party. 😄
If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 09:01 - Jun 15 with 1772 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 08:43 - Jun 15 by Clinton
Just a comment on the smug and arrogant leaders. I listened to the Osborne interview on Radio 4 Today program just now ( around quarter past 8 ) he didn't give a straight answer to any of the questions. When asked a question he gave oblique answers and the same platitudes. Whatever the facts of the matter, I don't actually believe the politicians any more. My Leave vote, already done as a postal vote is a protest vote to a certain extent. If the consequences of Leave are as bad as Cameron/Osborne are making out, why the heck did they call the thing in the first place. Idiotic, it is. Even if Leave wins, I can't see us actually leaving in the end. It will however lead to melt down in the Tory party. 😄
Well the Tories called the referendum because of the pressure they were facing from eurosceptics within their party, and to pacify UKIP supporters etc.
Not really sure why you would vote leave as a "protest" though given that this referendum could well shut the door for us in the EU for a generation or longer. It's not like you are giving party XYZ a bloody nose in one election and voting for a different party before returning to party XYZ five years later. That won't happen with the EU referendum.
Also, you say you don't trust Cameron or Osborne et al, but a vote leave would give them more powers. Not forgetting how this referendum is the brainchild of Nigel Farage, leader of one of the most disengenuous parties in recent history.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 09:18 - Jun 15 with 1755 views
Criticism: 97% of the climate science literature disagrees with the list.
Rebuttal: No 97% study exists that shows 43,950 peer-reviewed papers explicitly endorsing AGW. The largest study to date, Cook et al. (2013) attempted to categorize 11,944 abstracts (not entire papers) to their level of endorsement of AGW and found 7930 papers (66%) held no position. While only 65 papers (0.5%) explicitly endorsed and quantified AGW as +50% (Humans are the primary cause). A later analysis by Legates et al. (2013) found there to be only 41 papers (0.3%) that supported this definition. Cook et al.'s methodology was so fatally flawed that they falsely classified skeptic papers as endorsing AGW, apparently believing to know more about the papers than their authors. The second part of Cook et al. (2013), the author self-ratings simply confirmed the worthlessness of their methodology, as they were not representative of the sample since only 4% of the authors (1189 of 29,083) rated their own papers and of these 63% disagreed with their abstract ratings. All the other "97% consensus" studies: Doran & Zimmerman (2009), Anderegg et al. (2010) and Oreskes (2004) have been refuted by peer-review.
[Post edited 15 Jun 2016 0:32]
This is just a bibliography on a website. A bibliography of papers in support would be much longer, so long I suspect it will never be compiled.
Upthecity!
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 10:23 - Jun 15 with 1733 views
Over the last few days there's been a Party Political type Broadcast by the Leave campaign showing two videos alongside each other. The one on the left shows people waiting in what I imagine is an A&E with a totally frustrated look on their faces. The other shows the same situation with the doctor/medic or whatever apparently greeting the people personally with smiling faces all round.
Will anyone actually be persuaded to vote leave by this pathetic attempt at a con trick ? I was waiting to see Jesus and his disciples wandering around because they are obviously trying to portray the post Leave NHS as heaven.
Everyone (leavers and remainers) know the NHS won't be really any different whatever the result. It's yet another example of them treating people like idiots.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 11:17 - Jun 15 with 1702 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:20 - Jun 14 by exiledclaseboy
But we contribute to making and agree to implement those laws. In most cases they have to be transposed into UK law by the UK parliament.
72 Items this year detrimental to the UK that the UK did NOT want. Outvoted 72 times. Yes that is our contribution to making these laws. Being TOTALLY IGNORED by the rest of the EU.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 11:50 - Jun 15 with 1705 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 17:25 - Jun 14 by johnlangy
When Richard Murdoch, an Australian with an American passport, is using his stranglehold on a large chunk of our media to try to persuade the British people to vote leave that in itself should make people think twice about voting leave.
So it is OK for the Mirror, the Independent & the Guardian to all be pro Remain and totally bias their headlines but not the Sun to say what it ants it's readers to hear. Hypocrisy yet again. Try reading what the Commenters think of those 3 newspaper's stance.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 11:57 - Jun 15 with 1701 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 11:17 - Jun 15 by A_Fans_Dad
72 Items this year detrimental to the UK that the UK did NOT want. Outvoted 72 times. Yes that is our contribution to making these laws. Being TOTALLY IGNORED by the rest of the EU.
Just out of interest, out of how many votes in total was that. For context. It's not clear from your statement if that is bad for the UK.
Upthecity!
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 12:10 - Jun 15 with 1687 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 11:57 - Jun 15 by yescomeon
Just out of interest, out of how many votes in total was that. For context. It's not clear from your statement if that is bad for the UK.
The UK MEPs voted against the motions in the best interests of the UK and were outvoted on all 72 occasions what more can I tell you? If you need to know the details go and find them yourself, I am not interested in what they voted FOR if it was in the best interest of the UK or were told to vote for them by our Government.
[Post edited 15 Jun 2016 12:11]
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 12:14 - Jun 15 with 1680 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:03 - Jun 14 by donkeylabour
I know it's not a very popular position but aside from what I see are benefits from staying in like access to single market, cooperation across boundaries, lower costs, peace etc etc
I happen to believe that we have a duty to our European neighbours to be a leader. When the sh1t hits the fan I don't Britain to be carping at the sidelines, as this bitter isolationist Country. I want us to have an Internationalist outlook - I agree with what Churchill talked about post War.
The EU is still young, it is a work in progress I don't want to leave something when things get tough. That's the cowards way and we're better than that.
Absolutely right. As Gordon Brown puts it, we should "Lead the EU not Leave the EU". This is a view echoed by the German Finance Minister, Wolfgang Schäuble in an interview with Der Spiegel on 10 June 2016. Schäuble argues that:
"Britain is one of the strongest economies in the EU, and London is Europe's largest financial centre. Britain plays a leading role in all matters of foreign and security policy. That is why Europe is stronger with Britain than without it. Besides, the UK consistently advocates market-based solutions in Brussels, which frequently makes it an ally of the German government. And, in my view, one cannot have enough British pragmatic rationality in Europe." ( http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-1096999.html)
With Putin menacing Europe's eastern borders and massive instability in the middle-east, weakening the collective strength of Europe's democracies is a serious strategic blunder.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 12:27 - Jun 15 with 1659 views
Remain With or Leave the EU on 12:10 - Jun 15 by A_Fans_Dad
The UK MEPs voted against the motions in the best interests of the UK and were outvoted on all 72 occasions what more can I tell you? If you need to know the details go and find them yourself, I am not interested in what they voted FOR if it was in the best interest of the UK or were told to vote for them by our Government.
[Post edited 15 Jun 2016 12:11]
Not asking you what it was for, asking whether it was 72 out of 72 - bad - or 72 out 7200 - negligible.
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enjoy.... 
