| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird 07:19 - Apr 20 with 38854 views | numptydumpty |
People are quoting this as fact prior to last night's game
Where's the evidence please ??? [Post edited 20 Apr 2023 7:20]
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:15 - Apr 21 with 2641 views | PinnerPaul |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 12:06 - Apr 20 by bongo_king |
Yep. And we continued to flog him after that too... rushing him back during WC with Chair away, keeping him playing through till the ping in February because we're low on players with Roberts and Richards have gone AWOL.
Many slam his last 4 months or so after tearing up the league for 15 months. I'd say form is temporary, class is permanent. And as I posted elsewhere - and as Kev Gallen said - its the manager's job to get the best out of the star players of a team (Willock and Chair for us), it feels like no effort being made. Willock has been a lot more available than some of our other players so I'm not sold on the "attitude stinks" argument.
On Laird - watching that post match on the "reasons" for his omission, personally I'm not buying it. Rumours on the fallout so who knows in reality. If true... falling out with a loanee I could understand. But with your captain and your talisman, its tough to justify. |
We're bac k to the oft used manager can't win argument there.
Willock is brilliant, of course that's well done Chris, he isn't - that's down to Gareth.
Total nonsense. |  | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:19 - Apr 21 with 2622 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:03 - Apr 21 by E15Hoop |
I don't agree with that sentence either, PS. I've seen Amos go and proactively try and win challenges every time he's been fit enough to play. |
I know he does - I like him. I never should have mentioned him! :)
Just don't think he's that sort of player, he's a runner, he carries the ball and gets ahead of it too at times. I think we need more to go and win the bloody thing and make sure teams can't just run through us down the middle of the pitch which happens week after week after week. If we had another couple that did that Amos would look an even better player. |  | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:20 - Apr 21 with 2600 views | TK1 |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:07 - Apr 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
I see where you're coming from but I don't agree with you entirely.
To compete at the top of divisions (or even in the middle it turns out) you need everyone pulling in the same direction and fully committed to achieving a goal before you can even think about talent. The first thing Warnock did was 'sort the dressing room out' with Hill and Derry. And he got completely slaughtered for signing both before the season started.
If it's as toxic at the club as is being suggested any manager is on a hiding for nothing until it's sorted. I think we have a miniature version of the Hughes team going on here where players just don't care about the club.
By your logic, the right manager could have come in at Christmas with that Bosingwa team, galvanised them and kept them up. I don't believe there's a mortal alive that could have done that. And if there were they should write a sacred scripture about him and have a national bank holiday for eternity for Resurrection Saturday - the miracle of avoiding relegation. |
But that is not the "first thing he did". He joined on March 2nd. He had the same squad that Mick Harford was losing with. He didn't sort out the dressing with new players at all. He won his first two home games but didn't win again for seven games, losing a couple on the way.
He just spent that time working out how to win a couple more games to ensure safety, but until we won at Palace on April 10th six weeks after Warnock joined we looked in pretty serious danger of going down.
Warnock knew how to get out of a relegation battle without a transfer window. Because he was experienced at it. And because he was the right manager at the right time, in much the way Critchley and now most catastrophically Ainsworth aren't. The right manager for this battle would not be where are. But I don't even believe they were appointing a manager for this fight. That's the main problem. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:28 - Apr 21 with 2494 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:20 - Apr 21 by TK1 |
But that is not the "first thing he did". He joined on March 2nd. He had the same squad that Mick Harford was losing with. He didn't sort out the dressing with new players at all. He won his first two home games but didn't win again for seven games, losing a couple on the way.
He just spent that time working out how to win a couple more games to ensure safety, but until we won at Palace on April 10th six weeks after Warnock joined we looked in pretty serious danger of going down.
Warnock knew how to get out of a relegation battle without a transfer window. Because he was experienced at it. And because he was the right manager at the right time, in much the way Critchley and now most catastrophically Ainsworth aren't. The right manager for this battle would not be where are. But I don't even believe they were appointing a manager for this fight. That's the main problem. |
The Harford to Warnock switch was completely different. The club and team lacked energy and standards in those days. I think there are far bigger problems here now.
Would Warnock have been able to salvage anything from Bosingwa and the rest of the Hughes squad? Absolutely not. I don't think for a second he'd have taken the QPR job this time round if timings had been different either because he'd be astute enough to know it's irreparable in a short space of time without a transfer window. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:31 - Apr 21 with 2446 views | sparkey |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:28 - Apr 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
The Harford to Warnock switch was completely different. The club and team lacked energy and standards in those days. I think there are far bigger problems here now.
Would Warnock have been able to salvage anything from Bosingwa and the rest of the Hughes squad? Absolutely not. I don't think for a second he'd have taken the QPR job this time round if timings had been different either because he'd be astute enough to know it's irreparable in a short space of time without a transfer window. |
Not sure I buy the idea he wouldn't have joined.
He took over Hudders who were in a far more precarious positions than us. He also mentioned us as one of the clubs he'd come out of retirement for. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:34 - Apr 21 with 2409 views | R_from_afar |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:00 - Apr 21 by sparkey |
I know what you meant & I agree. We need the Dominator back really |
Imagine how much better we would be defensively if we were able to put out a central midfield pairing of Field and Ball.
No, on seconds thoughts, *don't* imagine it, don't torture yourself. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:34 - Apr 21 with 2397 views | PunteR |
This is all on Les Ferdinand, Hoos and the owners.
The whole point of a DoF is continuity of managers and playing style. Squad building and coaching. Recruitment is also a DoF overall responsibility.
It's a mess and Ainsworth has done an appalling job so far but this situation isn't Gareths fault. This is 8 years of Les Ferdinand and Lee Hoos running tingz. . The shit show has caught up with them. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:39 - Apr 21 with 2346 views | 1JD |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 20:27 - Apr 20 by westy |
JD has an agenda against GA no matter what he does. He claims The players take it upon themselves to do their own thing their way apparently, yet he slags GA off for his tactical nouse, so that’s a bit of a contradiction. If as he claims GA is ignored by his players.
GA is no way set on a certain style no more than QPR have an identity in how they play. But you cannot tell that to certain people who cannot get past the fact that GA is the manager who came from little Wycombe. Who apparently had no other offers in his reign there which I’m pretty sure is an inaccurate assumption. |
You appear unable to see the nuance, as it’s simply not that black and white. You also seem to want to cherry pick what I’ve actually said. Ainsworth himself confirmed the players weren’t comfortable with what they were being asked to do. That’s not a surprise and is on Ainsworth.
Secondly, Ainsworth himself confirmed that he will continue to play the way he believes is right, he’s been quoted recently as saying “getting it forward early”, “channel balls”, “not playing through the midfield”, and he’s “disappointed people can’t see what he sees”.
So whatever concessions he made to the playing style, via the players feedback, has quite evidently not been a lot. He is playing his way.
Rumours of a fall out between players and manager are hardly surprising. I’ve got little doubt there is a squad mutiny going on, and its probably been going on for some time. They aren’t having Ainsworth one bit, and frankly neither am I, and neither is Kevin Gallen, his former team mate; who articulated every point I had previously made.
It’s a absolute sh*t show and everything I predicted would happen, is happening. From causing issues with the lack of team news, to aimless long-ball, to chaotic 100pmh football, to ridiculously late substitutions, to a complete lack of tactical awareness, to an unbalanced preference of work rate over talent. It’s a manager-squad mismatch of the highest order. And we are on the brink of relegation because of it. | | | |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:45 - Apr 21 with 2289 views | slmrstid |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:39 - Apr 21 by 1JD |
You appear unable to see the nuance, as it’s simply not that black and white. You also seem to want to cherry pick what I’ve actually said. Ainsworth himself confirmed the players weren’t comfortable with what they were being asked to do. That’s not a surprise and is on Ainsworth.
Secondly, Ainsworth himself confirmed that he will continue to play the way he believes is right, he’s been quoted recently as saying “getting it forward early”, “channel balls”, “not playing through the midfield”, and he’s “disappointed people can’t see what he sees”.
So whatever concessions he made to the playing style, via the players feedback, has quite evidently not been a lot. He is playing his way.
Rumours of a fall out between players and manager are hardly surprising. I’ve got little doubt there is a squad mutiny going on, and its probably been going on for some time. They aren’t having Ainsworth one bit, and frankly neither am I, and neither is Kevin Gallen, his former team mate; who articulated every point I had previously made.
It’s a absolute sh*t show and everything I predicted would happen, is happening. From causing issues with the lack of team news, to aimless long-ball, to chaotic 100pmh football, to ridiculously late substitutions, to a complete lack of tactical awareness, to an unbalanced preference of work rate over talent. It’s a manager-squad mismatch of the highest order. And we are on the brink of relegation because of it. |
I'm pretty sure Kevin Gallen hates everyone who isn't Kevin Gallen, whilst Kevin Gallen considers Kevin Gallen QPR royalty.
I know he cropped up in a separate thread a few weeks ago in regard to the difference between player/person...and I'm certainly in that camp of loving the player and not so much the person.
Separate topic, and sorry not trying to draw off a tangent, but I'm not taking Kevin Gallen's word for anything. |  | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:04 - Apr 21 with 2160 views | NewYorkRanger |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:45 - Apr 21 by slmrstid |
I'm pretty sure Kevin Gallen hates everyone who isn't Kevin Gallen, whilst Kevin Gallen considers Kevin Gallen QPR royalty.
I know he cropped up in a separate thread a few weeks ago in regard to the difference between player/person...and I'm certainly in that camp of loving the player and not so much the person.
Separate topic, and sorry not trying to draw off a tangent, but I'm not taking Kevin Gallen's word for anything. |
so are we saying it is the managers fault then? I'm not clear....... |  |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:05 - Apr 21 with 2156 views | daveB |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:07 - Apr 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
I see where you're coming from but I don't agree with you entirely.
To compete at the top of divisions (or even in the middle it turns out) you need everyone pulling in the same direction and fully committed to achieving a goal before you can even think about talent. The first thing Warnock did was 'sort the dressing room out' with Hill and Derry. And he got completely slaughtered for signing both before the season started.
If it's as toxic at the club as is being suggested any manager is on a hiding for nothing until it's sorted. I think we have a miniature version of the Hughes team going on here where players just don't care about the club.
By your logic, the right manager could have come in at Christmas with that Bosingwa team, galvanised them and kept them up. I don't believe there's a mortal alive that could have done that. And if there were they should write a sacred scripture about him and have a national bank holiday for eternity for Resurrection Saturday - the miracle of avoiding relegation. |
Different circumstance in 2012/13. Redknapp came in November to a team that hadn't won a single game all season and were cut adrift at the bottom. Even then we strung a few wins together, beat Chelsea, drew with Man City and a missed penalty away from a win against Norwich which would have moved us out of the bottom 3. This season as I keep saying we were 8 points clear when he took over, this wasn't mission impossible, we're still not in the bottom 3 now. 1 win in the last 8 games and we'd be just about safe and we faced some right crap in those games.
Part of the managers job is to get the players on board, thats not easy but that is a major part of why Ainsworth was brought in as he's a motivator and would bring the squad together. The comparisons with Warnock are interesting when you see the job hes doing this season, hasn't signed anymore just got everyone pulling in the same direction rather than have the excuse well what can you do some of them are arseholes |  | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:15 - Apr 21 with 2098 views | calHoop |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:00 - Apr 21 by Antti_Heinola |
'brilliantly assembled group'
Come on. Give Warnock all the credit you want, but he came in to find a disparate group randomly signed in a sort of low rent way that Boehly has gone about things and in the rubble were a few gems that he added Hill and Derry too. Brilliant management. But nothing was 'brilliantly assembled'. It was haphazard nonsense with too much money thrown at some very average players and luckily a few of them, almost by the law of averages, turned out to be quite decent. We spent £1m on Rob Hulse. That was the sort of money we could chuck about then. |
Well he came in towards the end of that first season, set us up differently, kept us up.
Then added to that group with Kenny, Hill, Derry, Mackie, even Bradley Orr. Big personality players that would be first teamers, what this current group doesn't have. Mad to call it haphazard, makes it sound like we got lucky that season winning the league.
Most balanced squad we've had in years. Then decided to rip it up in the Premier League, which we've been paying for ever since. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:16 - Apr 21 with 2088 views | BklynRanger |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:05 - Apr 21 by daveB |
Different circumstance in 2012/13. Redknapp came in November to a team that hadn't won a single game all season and were cut adrift at the bottom. Even then we strung a few wins together, beat Chelsea, drew with Man City and a missed penalty away from a win against Norwich which would have moved us out of the bottom 3. This season as I keep saying we were 8 points clear when he took over, this wasn't mission impossible, we're still not in the bottom 3 now. 1 win in the last 8 games and we'd be just about safe and we faced some right crap in those games.
Part of the managers job is to get the players on board, thats not easy but that is a major part of why Ainsworth was brought in as he's a motivator and would bring the squad together. The comparisons with Warnock are interesting when you see the job hes doing this season, hasn't signed anymore just got everyone pulling in the same direction rather than have the excuse well what can you do some of them are arseholes |
But that just tells us Warnock is a better manager than Ainsworth. I don't think many people would disagree with that, possibly even Ainsworth.
Maybe if we'd had Warnock things would be different - far from certain of course but maybe.
That's different though to it being GA's fault that we're in the situation we are. He bears some responsibility now yes, absolutely, but I just think we need to be cautious about how much. |  | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:28 - Apr 21 with 2011 views | daveB |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:16 - Apr 21 by BklynRanger |
But that just tells us Warnock is a better manager than Ainsworth. I don't think many people would disagree with that, possibly even Ainsworth.
Maybe if we'd had Warnock things would be different - far from certain of course but maybe.
That's different though to it being GA's fault that we're in the situation we are. He bears some responsibility now yes, absolutely, but I just think we need to be cautious about how much. |
I've not said it's all his fault, the whole thing isn't on any one person it's a collection of mistakes and circumstances that lead us here
He could have done a lot better than he has though and having seeing his team for 2 months I'm terrified at what it will look like if we let him build his own team
Complete clean slate for me in the summer, DOF, CEO and manager should all go no matter what happens in these last 3 games | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:33 - Apr 21 with 1983 views | E15Hoop |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:39 - Apr 21 by 1JD |
You appear unable to see the nuance, as it’s simply not that black and white. You also seem to want to cherry pick what I’ve actually said. Ainsworth himself confirmed the players weren’t comfortable with what they were being asked to do. That’s not a surprise and is on Ainsworth.
Secondly, Ainsworth himself confirmed that he will continue to play the way he believes is right, he’s been quoted recently as saying “getting it forward early”, “channel balls”, “not playing through the midfield”, and he’s “disappointed people can’t see what he sees”.
So whatever concessions he made to the playing style, via the players feedback, has quite evidently not been a lot. He is playing his way.
Rumours of a fall out between players and manager are hardly surprising. I’ve got little doubt there is a squad mutiny going on, and its probably been going on for some time. They aren’t having Ainsworth one bit, and frankly neither am I, and neither is Kevin Gallen, his former team mate; who articulated every point I had previously made.
It’s a absolute sh*t show and everything I predicted would happen, is happening. From causing issues with the lack of team news, to aimless long-ball, to chaotic 100pmh football, to ridiculously late substitutions, to a complete lack of tactical awareness, to an unbalanced preference of work rate over talent. It’s a manager-squad mismatch of the highest order. And we are on the brink of relegation because of it. |
So are you saying that passing out from the back"playing through the thirds", picking Laird, Willock and whoever else fits in with what apparently this bunch of players are better suited to, and keeping Critchley (given keeping Beale as an option is not even worth debating given how he left) would have yielded a different set of circumstances to those in which we find ourselves now? I don't recall the 3-1 home loss to Blackburn being a radical change from what had gone before, because GA hadn't had time to "rip it up and start again" (insert other appropraite cliches as you see fit).
..And let's be honest, given the graphic language you're using to decribe where we're at now, who else was going to seriously be attracted to taking it on, especially given the fact that Critchley only lasted 12 gamed before being unceremoniously despatched?
Given the precision with which you've undertaken your analysis (Is it perhaps the right time to say "post-mortem" for the first time?), how high a percentage would you rate the chances of Michael Reiziger magically flying in over the summer to rescue us from doom, catastrophe and complete annihilation? | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:39 - Apr 21 with 1944 views | BklynRanger |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:28 - Apr 21 by daveB |
I've not said it's all his fault, the whole thing isn't on any one person it's a collection of mistakes and circumstances that lead us here
He could have done a lot better than he has though and having seeing his team for 2 months I'm terrified at what it will look like if we let him build his own team
Complete clean slate for me in the summer, DOF, CEO and manager should all go no matter what happens in these last 3 games |
I'd agree with two and a half of those - honestly couldn't say at this moment if the manager should change or not but I see your point. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:44 - Apr 21 with 1878 views | daveB |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:33 - Apr 21 by E15Hoop |
So are you saying that passing out from the back"playing through the thirds", picking Laird, Willock and whoever else fits in with what apparently this bunch of players are better suited to, and keeping Critchley (given keeping Beale as an option is not even worth debating given how he left) would have yielded a different set of circumstances to those in which we find ourselves now? I don't recall the 3-1 home loss to Blackburn being a radical change from what had gone before, because GA hadn't had time to "rip it up and start again" (insert other appropraite cliches as you see fit).
..And let's be honest, given the graphic language you're using to decribe where we're at now, who else was going to seriously be attracted to taking it on, especially given the fact that Critchley only lasted 12 gamed before being unceremoniously despatched?
Given the precision with which you've undertaken your analysis (Is it perhaps the right time to say "post-mortem" for the first time?), how high a percentage would you rate the chances of Michael Reiziger magically flying in over the summer to rescue us from doom, catastrophe and complete annihilation? |
I don't think anyone is saying Critchley was doing well, his set up for the team was pretty similar to Ainsworth and didn't work so he got sacked for it
There needs to be a mixture of the 2 styles to do well rather than one or the other | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:44 - Apr 21 with 1877 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:16 - Apr 21 by BklynRanger |
But that just tells us Warnock is a better manager than Ainsworth. I don't think many people would disagree with that, possibly even Ainsworth.
Maybe if we'd had Warnock things would be different - far from certain of course but maybe.
That's different though to it being GA's fault that we're in the situation we are. He bears some responsibility now yes, absolutely, but I just think we need to be cautious about how much. |
Well said. People acting like Ainsworth is the problem because he hasn't been able to do what Warnock did with us the first time around and what he has done with Huddersfield... He's arguably the greatest manager in history at this level. It's not a fair bar to set for Ainsworth or Critchley for that matter.
The implication that we have a setup and group here that are just sat ready and willing to burst into sudden mid-table capability, all they need is the right manager in the dressing room, completely baffles me. For that to be true our last two appointments have not only been wrong they have been historically and comically poor akin to handing Nick Leeson a red briefcase, despite them both having immediately preceded success.
Even if it were as simple as that, what are the chances of us - when 23 other Championship teams are also desperate for him - finding one of these managers that is so good that they can get Andre Dozzell spraying balls around like Pirlo and Chris Martin thundering goals in like Harry Kane? And then even when we've found him, what stops him sodding off to Southampton, Wolves or Glasgow Rangers when everyone else realises we've unearthed the second coming of Bill Shankley?
Whilst we're at it how are the Preston, Millwall, Luton and Brentfords of the world able to carry on signing decent players for low fees and leveraging them into solid Championship players across multiple managers? If we appointed Ryan Lowe or Rob Edwards instead of Neil Critchley do you genuinely believe they'd have won many / any more points? I do not. The rot would not have stopped. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 14:49]
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:49 - Apr 21 with 1837 views | ted_hendrix |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:28 - Apr 21 by daveB |
I've not said it's all his fault, the whole thing isn't on any one person it's a collection of mistakes and circumstances that lead us here
He could have done a lot better than he has though and having seeing his team for 2 months I'm terrified at what it will look like if we let him build his own team
Complete clean slate for me in the summer, DOF, CEO and manager should all go no matter what happens in these last 3 games |
This Is exactly what must happen regardless of what Division we end up In.
People won't like It but tough, go on the outside of our club and take an Independant view of how we've been Managed---how we've performed over the last 8--9--Years?
We've fiffed and faffed and successfully failed In just about everthing we've tried to do.
We cannot simply cannot carry on under the current regime.
All the evidence Is laid bare right there In front of you. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:52 - Apr 21 with 1821 views | ridethewave |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:44 - Apr 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Well said. People acting like Ainsworth is the problem because he hasn't been able to do what Warnock did with us the first time around and what he has done with Huddersfield... He's arguably the greatest manager in history at this level. It's not a fair bar to set for Ainsworth or Critchley for that matter.
The implication that we have a setup and group here that are just sat ready and willing to burst into sudden mid-table capability, all they need is the right manager in the dressing room, completely baffles me. For that to be true our last two appointments have not only been wrong they have been historically and comically poor akin to handing Nick Leeson a red briefcase, despite them both having immediately preceded success.
Even if it were as simple as that, what are the chances of us - when 23 other Championship teams are also desperate for him - finding one of these managers that is so good that they can get Andre Dozzell spraying balls around like Pirlo and Chris Martin thundering goals in like Harry Kane? And then even when we've found him, what stops him sodding off to Southampton, Wolves or Glasgow Rangers when everyone else realises we've unearthed the second coming of Bill Shankley?
Whilst we're at it how are the Preston, Millwall, Luton and Brentfords of the world able to carry on signing decent players for low fees and leveraging them into solid Championship players across multiple managers? If we appointed Ryan Lowe or Rob Edwards instead of Neil Critchley do you genuinely believe they'd have won many / any more points? I do not. The rot would not have stopped. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 14:49]
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Well, a pretty simple extrapolation of the points per game Critchley was amassing against much higher opposition than Ainsworth, against what Ainsworth has achieved against much lower opposition, tells you that we would likely have achieved more points had he stayed. I think the decision to sack Critchley will prove to be the undoing of this club this year. |  | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:52 - Apr 21 with 1813 views | bongo_king |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:15 - Apr 21 by PinnerPaul |
We're bac k to the oft used manager can't win argument there.
Willock is brilliant, of course that's well done Chris, he isn't - that's down to Gareth.
Total nonsense. |
Read it again - he's been flogged from before GA joined and the slump started there. Other reasons for how he goes from 6 goals in 9 games pre Sheff U (following on from an excellent last season) to what we have now welcome.
He's not the 2nd coming of jesus but he is the most talented player we have at present. It's been done to death already on this and other threads, its nuts that he sits on the bench as over the hill players struggle and we sink towards relegation, and that is the manager's choice.
There is a lot of throwing the baby out with the bathwater with this squad. Yes, overall the squad is a mess, there appears to lack leaders and several I'll be happy to see the back of. But there are half a dozen or so players who've played well for us for long periods before and will likely go on to do well in other Champ level or above teams. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:54 - Apr 21 with 1801 views | 1JD |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:33 - Apr 21 by E15Hoop |
So are you saying that passing out from the back"playing through the thirds", picking Laird, Willock and whoever else fits in with what apparently this bunch of players are better suited to, and keeping Critchley (given keeping Beale as an option is not even worth debating given how he left) would have yielded a different set of circumstances to those in which we find ourselves now? I don't recall the 3-1 home loss to Blackburn being a radical change from what had gone before, because GA hadn't had time to "rip it up and start again" (insert other appropraite cliches as you see fit).
..And let's be honest, given the graphic language you're using to decribe where we're at now, who else was going to seriously be attracted to taking it on, especially given the fact that Critchley only lasted 12 gamed before being unceremoniously despatched?
Given the precision with which you've undertaken your analysis (Is it perhaps the right time to say "post-mortem" for the first time?), how high a percentage would you rate the chances of Michael Reiziger magically flying in over the summer to rescue us from doom, catastrophe and complete annihilation? |
If you can’t see that Ainsworth was a complete 360 degree from what we had been steadily building, and the risks that his appointment would carry, we’ll have to agree to disagree and leave it there.
To answer your question, yes I believe many other managers would have been a far more strategic fit, a shortlist of which is not my job. As to how they would have done, we will never know.
But the fact remains, Beale got a tune out of this SAME squad. So, whilst weaknesses clearly exist, the ability to work with those, overcome those wisely, whilst maximising and playing to the strengths of the squad, is what differentiates Beale from Critchley and Ainsworth. That’s not an opinion, it’s born out of the data. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 15:01 - Apr 21 with 1758 views | daveB |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:44 - Apr 21 by Padulas_Shampoo |
Well said. People acting like Ainsworth is the problem because he hasn't been able to do what Warnock did with us the first time around and what he has done with Huddersfield... He's arguably the greatest manager in history at this level. It's not a fair bar to set for Ainsworth or Critchley for that matter.
The implication that we have a setup and group here that are just sat ready and willing to burst into sudden mid-table capability, all they need is the right manager in the dressing room, completely baffles me. For that to be true our last two appointments have not only been wrong they have been historically and comically poor akin to handing Nick Leeson a red briefcase, despite them both having immediately preceded success.
Even if it were as simple as that, what are the chances of us - when 23 other Championship teams are also desperate for him - finding one of these managers that is so good that they can get Andre Dozzell spraying balls around like Pirlo and Chris Martin thundering goals in like Harry Kane? And then even when we've found him, what stops him sodding off to Southampton, Wolves or Glasgow Rangers when everyone else realises we've unearthed the second coming of Bill Shankley?
Whilst we're at it how are the Preston, Millwall, Luton and Brentfords of the world able to carry on signing decent players for low fees and leveraging them into solid Championship players across multiple managers? If we appointed Ryan Lowe or Rob Edwards instead of Neil Critchley do you genuinely believe they'd have won many / any more points? I do not. The rot would not have stopped. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 14:49]
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He didn't need to do what Warnock did or be anything amazing, He just needed to win 1 game against either Blackpool, Wigan and Birmingham or any of the recent home games and we'd be pretty much safe. Just 1 win, not 5/6 with incredible form just 1 game and we'd be 4 points clear and pretty much safe
I agree the players have been crap and a fair few of them are behaving really poorly but there can be no excuse for Ainsworth here if we do go down. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 15:03 - Apr 21 with 1749 views | E15Hoop |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 14:52 - Apr 21 by ridethewave |
Well, a pretty simple extrapolation of the points per game Critchley was amassing against much higher opposition than Ainsworth, against what Ainsworth has achieved against much lower opposition, tells you that we would likely have achieved more points had he stayed. I think the decision to sack Critchley will prove to be the undoing of this club this year. |
But if the squad weren't having him (which we know several of them weren't), then how was his position even tenable? He could have weedled out those not playing for him, as it appears GA has done, but let's face it, Critchley had all the personality of a rotting wet lettuce minus the enthusiasm, so its surely not even worthdiscussing if we'd be in a better position than we are now under him.
On Wednesday night, GA managed to cobble together a group of players that made some sort of semblance of playing as a team to some sort of semblance of a plan, however rudimentary you might like to describe it as. Some people in this forum seem to labour still under the misapprehension that we could/should be expecting more at this point in time. Like it or hate it, I think GA has at least correctly understood who or what we currently are. | | | |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 15:11 - Apr 21 with 1699 views | westy |
| Bust up between Ainsworth with Willock, Johansen and Laird on 13:39 - Apr 21 by 1JD |
You appear unable to see the nuance, as it’s simply not that black and white. You also seem to want to cherry pick what I’ve actually said. Ainsworth himself confirmed the players weren’t comfortable with what they were being asked to do. That’s not a surprise and is on Ainsworth.
Secondly, Ainsworth himself confirmed that he will continue to play the way he believes is right, he’s been quoted recently as saying “getting it forward early”, “channel balls”, “not playing through the midfield”, and he’s “disappointed people can’t see what he sees”.
So whatever concessions he made to the playing style, via the players feedback, has quite evidently not been a lot. He is playing his way.
Rumours of a fall out between players and manager are hardly surprising. I’ve got little doubt there is a squad mutiny going on, and its probably been going on for some time. They aren’t having Ainsworth one bit, and frankly neither am I, and neither is Kevin Gallen, his former team mate; who articulated every point I had previously made.
It’s a absolute sh*t show and everything I predicted would happen, is happening. From causing issues with the lack of team news, to aimless long-ball, to chaotic 100pmh football, to ridiculously late substitutions, to a complete lack of tactical awareness, to an unbalanced preference of work rate over talent. It’s a manager-squad mismatch of the highest order. And we are on the brink of relegation because of it. |
Tbf I’m hardly going to analyse everything you say, I’m a dick but not a total one.
Why do you think they are not having GA one bit, could it be they think they are far superior in their ability and knowledge.
Hardly, as they are playing for a side in total disarray, that’s on them and their lack of ability and intelligence. Taking the piss out of your boss is one thing if you’re all together and things are going great but doing it in the suggested manner is pathetic and churlish.
Tbh who cares what Kevin me me Gallen has to say. Who has he coached or managed to a level.
QPR are on the brink of relegation because of the players as beforehand you’d stated that you’d heard they are ignoring his orders and doing their own thing. Can’t have it both ways.
If that’s true then that’s why some have been reportedly axed.
A fall out between players and manager will always happen especially when certain players want to excuse themselves from any accountability.
I keep hearing playing the QPR way tbh I’d like to know what that is. Hardly the Barca of the championship.
I’m sure GA will see it as a failure if the club get relegated something which I think is almost certain now, however he is not imo totally at fault. There are far deeper rooted problems at the club but it has to start with the players first and foremost.
These arseholes can’t or won’t get motivated because they are very poor players. Being a pro takes total dedication and a certain amount of arrogance. Being great ability wise does not make you a great player.
I’ve played with many a player who went on to make careers for themselves, two of them even at QPR and much higher, were they the best players no but they had grit,determination and a will to listen and give 100% every minute they were at work. Not just when they fancied it. That’s what makes a great pro.
Sorry I’m ranting now.
We all have our opinions but our objective is the same. Success on the pitch.
Is GA the right man, maybe / maybe not.
Will he be given a few months into next season, probably not as I think relegation will freak everyone out and shots will be fired all over the place. | | | |
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