| This mystical £30m Black hole 11:36 - May 21 with 6176 views | Vincent_Vega |
What's this £30mill everyone's banging on about and making fag packet maths on potential player sales to cover it? Also hearing once that 'hole' is filled our financial situation will be rosy again.
All I read that there's a deficit on this years accounts of around £30mill, if that deficit isn't sorted then it goes as a loss on the accounts. If that loss is covered by sales and/or regencies then we'll break even.
What about next year then? When will it end? League 2? |  |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 11:54 - May 21 with 4895 views | mynamesjeff1 |
You just answered your own question, the hole is the deficit. next year we have to find 10m. Then year after the parachute payments end and we should be about level. |  | | |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 11:54 - May 21 with 4893 views | LeonWasGod |
it doesn't end. Each year we will have to spend no more that we earn, because the owners aren't prepared, or don't have the means, to cover any losses. I thought this was common knowledge. I think they've literally said as much.
Which is a bit of an issue, as virtually nobody can run consistently in the black in this league (ok for a season when there are big sales, but that can't be relied on). |  | | |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:03 - May 21 with 4872 views | Vincent_Vega |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 11:54 - May 21 by mynamesjeff1 |
You just answered your own question, the hole is the deficit. next year we have to find 10m. Then year after the parachute payments end and we should be about level. |
My point is 2 fold,
1.What's this figure of £30mill? where's it come from and why £30mill?
2.Why are people making up figures to plug the gap. eg. Manure paying £15mill for DJ.
Transfers are very rarely payed up in full upfront so £15mill off the deficit is BS if we're only going to see a third of that in the first year. That's just one example
And you now saying £10mill, where's that figure come from? | |
| Boycott Shampoo......Demand Real Poo!!! |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:25 - May 21 with 4786 views | waynekerr55 |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 11:54 - May 21 by LeonWasGod |
it doesn't end. Each year we will have to spend no more that we earn, because the owners aren't prepared, or don't have the means, to cover any losses. I thought this was common knowledge. I think they've literally said as much.
Which is a bit of an issue, as virtually nobody can run consistently in the black in this league (ok for a season when there are big sales, but that can't be relied on). |
It must be that the owners aren't prepared to - as that was the reason for selling to them.
Interesting that Wathan is now bothering to do some actual journalism; shame he didn't do it when it was f*cking needed. |  |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:36 - May 21 with 4728 views | magicdaps10 |
30m was a total that was filtered on here by posters, posters who had their tongues up the board/old boards rears. |  |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:41 - May 21 with 4714 views | Badlands |
'What about next year then? When will it end? League 2?'
because we have never functioned within our financial limits before!
The fact is, until we started acting like the big boys in the playground, we spent what we had but if we went over we cut back or sold assets to cover the shortfall and remained solvent.
From what I see that is exactly what we are trying to return to.
If fans want to see their favourite big teams play Swansea they have to support the club by paying entrance fees, turning up and filling the stadium.
Sick of people whining that the they want Premier League status but refusing to attend games in the lower divisions or against unfashionable teams. |  |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:46 - May 21 with 4691 views | Private_Partz |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:36 - May 21 by magicdaps10 |
30m was a total that was filtered on here by posters, posters who had their tongues up the board/old boards rears. |
This thread proves a point I made on another one. Nobody has a clue what is going on financially.
However some of our fans seem to happy clap us down the leagues, and in support of the Yanks, whilst other clubs seem to compete at this level.
Seems the only way to go is keep cutting costs until we are an amateur side in the Swansea Senior League |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:53 - May 21 with 4656 views | Badlands |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:46 - May 21 by Private_Partz |
This thread proves a point I made on another one. Nobody has a clue what is going on financially.
However some of our fans seem to happy clap us down the leagues, and in support of the Yanks, whilst other clubs seem to compete at this level.
Seems the only way to go is keep cutting costs until we are an amateur side in the Swansea Senior League |
Why does keeping within our means lead to Swansea senior league?
We do have a good idea of what is going on financially but some choose to invent mythical payments and scams. I feel I know more about our finances than I did in 2015!
The bottom line is this - if we, the fans, turn up and support we will see finances available to maintain our standing and maybe improve.
If fans boycott, stay away or otherwise stop putting their time and money into the club the will drop. But at least those fans who stay away will at some stage be able to pride themselves with and, 'I told you so.' | |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 13:03 - May 21 with 4605 views | magicdaps10 |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:53 - May 21 by Badlands |
Why does keeping within our means lead to Swansea senior league?
We do have a good idea of what is going on financially but some choose to invent mythical payments and scams. I feel I know more about our finances than I did in 2015!
The bottom line is this - if we, the fans, turn up and support we will see finances available to maintain our standing and maybe improve.
If fans boycott, stay away or otherwise stop putting their time and money into the club the will drop. But at least those fans who stay away will at some stage be able to pride themselves with and, 'I told you so.' |
So where do we stand with the James sale, compo from Potter and co, wages saved with Bony, Narsingh, Olsson and Fer.
Do you believe we need to sell anymore? | |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 13:06 - May 21 with 4585 views | andypitt56 |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 13:03 - May 21 by magicdaps10 |
So where do we stand with the James sale, compo from Potter and co, wages saved with Bony, Narsingh, Olsson and Fer.
Do you believe we need to sell anymore? |
If we want funds to buy players then yes I think we need to sell another player.
those that you have mentioned will only be enough to break even. | | | |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 13:07 - May 21 with 4578 views | mynamesjeff1 |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 13:03 - May 21 by magicdaps10 |
So where do we stand with the James sale, compo from Potter and co, wages saved with Bony, Narsingh, Olsson and Fer.
Do you believe we need to sell anymore? |
It equates to roughly 30m. We now do not need to get rid of anyone else. | | | |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 13:23 - May 21 with 4500 views | Vetchfielder |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 13:07 - May 21 by mynamesjeff1 |
It equates to roughly 30m. We now do not need to get rid of anyone else. |
The £30M deficit, or "black hole" as you've referred to it, I think comes from Pearlman's interview in January where he said there was £60M reduction in revenue this season and that " player sales brought in "maybe half" of the revenue deficit following relegation. "
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46924899
So if Pearlman is correct, unless we've recovered that £30m somehow since January then we have to find those savings, mainly from player sales, before the end of July , otherwise the company accounts for 2018-2019 will show a huge loss, and the deficit carried into next season. Bad state of affairs all caused by previous mismanagement. |  |
| Proud to have been one of the 231 |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 13:45 - May 21 with 4421 views | costalotta |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:53 - May 21 by Badlands |
Why does keeping within our means lead to Swansea senior league?
We do have a good idea of what is going on financially but some choose to invent mythical payments and scams. I feel I know more about our finances than I did in 2015!
The bottom line is this - if we, the fans, turn up and support we will see finances available to maintain our standing and maybe improve.
If fans boycott, stay away or otherwise stop putting their time and money into the club the will drop. But at least those fans who stay away will at some stage be able to pride themselves with and, 'I told you so.' |
We did turn up. We continue to turn up.
If the fans boycott or stay away its there prerogative. Many will do simply because they do not trust these owners. The owners who were supposed be able to 'cover'. when we went down, if they had... who knows.
Going forward its likely to get worse than better. |  | | |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 14:09 - May 21 with 4328 views | Cooperman |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 13:03 - May 21 by magicdaps10 |
So where do we stand with the James sale, compo from Potter and co, wages saved with Bony, Narsingh, Olsson and Fer.
Do you believe we need to sell anymore? |
Yes. |  |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 14:14 - May 21 with 4307 views | Vincent_Vega |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:46 - May 21 by Private_Partz |
This thread proves a point I made on another one. Nobody has a clue what is going on financially.
However some of our fans seem to happy clap us down the leagues, and in support of the Yanks, whilst other clubs seem to compete at this level.
Seems the only way to go is keep cutting costs until we are an amateur side in the Swansea Senior League |
This is what I mean, Nobody knows sweet FA about what's going on we can only surmise.
looks like from what we know the clubs going down the Coventry, Portsmouth, Blackpool route. | |
| Boycott Shampoo......Demand Real Poo!!! |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 14:16 - May 21 with 4293 views | waynekerr55 |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 12:41 - May 21 by Badlands |
'What about next year then? When will it end? League 2?'
because we have never functioned within our financial limits before!
The fact is, until we started acting like the big boys in the playground, we spent what we had but if we went over we cut back or sold assets to cover the shortfall and remained solvent.
From what I see that is exactly what we are trying to return to.
If fans want to see their favourite big teams play Swansea they have to support the club by paying entrance fees, turning up and filling the stadium.
Sick of people whining that the they want Premier League status but refusing to attend games in the lower divisions or against unfashionable teams. |
By we you mean Jenkins and his foray into real life Chanpionship Manager? | |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 14:46 - May 21 with 4220 views | PozuelosSideys |
The gap will likely be a mix of lower revenue income + existing contracts made in the PL which we need to honour for the likes of the Ayews. For example, if Ayew was on 80k pw and he has a year left, then thats £4m right there plus all the add ons + taxes etc. Not cheap
As an aside, i read somewhere yesterday that in the UK, football clubs report player salaries after tax whereas in Spain they report before tax. So if Ayew is £80k pw then the number will significantly higher. Does anyone know if this is actually true or bollox? |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 15:00 - May 21 with 4175 views | jasper_T |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 14:46 - May 21 by PozuelosSideys |
The gap will likely be a mix of lower revenue income + existing contracts made in the PL which we need to honour for the likes of the Ayews. For example, if Ayew was on 80k pw and he has a year left, then thats £4m right there plus all the add ons + taxes etc. Not cheap
As an aside, i read somewhere yesterday that in the UK, football clubs report player salaries after tax whereas in Spain they report before tax. So if Ayew is £80k pw then the number will significantly higher. Does anyone know if this is actually true or bollox? |
UK clubs don't have to declare individual player salaries at all. | | | |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 15:08 - May 21 with 4146 views | Badlands |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 14:46 - May 21 by PozuelosSideys |
The gap will likely be a mix of lower revenue income + existing contracts made in the PL which we need to honour for the likes of the Ayews. For example, if Ayew was on 80k pw and he has a year left, then thats £4m right there plus all the add ons + taxes etc. Not cheap
As an aside, i read somewhere yesterday that in the UK, football clubs report player salaries after tax whereas in Spain they report before tax. So if Ayew is £80k pw then the number will significantly higher. Does anyone know if this is actually true or bollox? |
It is down to each club how they report figures like this but I suspect there is some vagueness so as not to tip off the tax authorities of avoidance.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-01-21/record-number-of-footballers-under-investiga
Generally high paid players in the
UK & France pay 45% top rate tax on all earnings that are taxable
Spain pay 52% top rate tax on all earnings that are taxable
Germany 47.475% (!!)
Italy 46.29%
Russia pay 13% top rte tax on all earnings that are taxable
Monaco - 13% NI but no income tax!
Qatar 0% | |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 15:11 - May 21 with 4134 views | Dr_Winston |
We need to shift the higher earners who are no longer wanted or we'll be in the same boat next summer. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 15:21 - May 21 with 4108 views | ploppy |
I daresay the answer's on here somewhere, but can someone enlighten me: is this £30m black hole a deficit or debt. Those who don't know the difference needn't reply. Thanks. | | | |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 15:33 - May 21 with 4066 views | jasper_T |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 15:21 - May 21 by ploppy |
I daresay the answer's on here somewhere, but can someone enlighten me: is this £30m black hole a deficit or debt. Those who don't know the difference needn't reply. Thanks. |
Alan Nixon has talked about it as if it were a debt the owners want to recover, with savings on wages coming off "future spending" or more sales. It wouldn't solve our deficit, merely repair the damage the existing deficit have done to date.
So we would want £30m transfer revenue now, and hopefully far less than that next summer should we shift the biggest anchors from around the club's neck asap. | | | |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 15:59 - May 21 with 4009 views | ploppy |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 15:33 - May 21 by jasper_T |
Alan Nixon has talked about it as if it were a debt the owners want to recover, with savings on wages coming off "future spending" or more sales. It wouldn't solve our deficit, merely repair the damage the existing deficit have done to date.
So we would want £30m transfer revenue now, and hopefully far less than that next summer should we shift the biggest anchors from around the club's neck asap. |
Thanks. | | | |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 16:19 - May 21 with 3960 views | Uxbridge |
Parachute payments go down year on year. We've still got a few excessively high earners on the books which need getting rid of. That's always going to need dealing with and they can't be ignored. Ideally that's resolved by getting rid of the likes of the Ayew's.
This is the reality of where we are. For the next two years we have an income advantage over most of the division, but our expenditure on legacy contracts, operating with a PL level of staffing etc will mean our expenditure is far higher than most too. The challenge for Birch is to get us in a position where the difference between the two is in our favour, which will lead to the squad being stronger, or being able to strengthen. After two years (I think), there'll be no parachute money at all, and we're living off whatever income we can generate, and that's not a scenario where we want to be servicing debts as well. |  |
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| This mystical £30m Black hole on 16:20 - May 21 with 3956 views | PozuelosSideys |
| This mystical £30m Black hole on 15:08 - May 21 by Badlands |
It is down to each club how they report figures like this but I suspect there is some vagueness so as not to tip off the tax authorities of avoidance.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-01-21/record-number-of-footballers-under-investiga
Generally high paid players in the
UK & France pay 45% top rate tax on all earnings that are taxable
Spain pay 52% top rate tax on all earnings that are taxable
Germany 47.475% (!!)
Italy 46.29%
Russia pay 13% top rte tax on all earnings that are taxable
Monaco - 13% NI but no income tax!
Qatar 0% |
Reason i ask isnt so much about the tax rate, but i was reading a few articles abourt Man City on Rueters and comments/discussion between their FD and HMRC (Gael Clichy to be specific). They were saying how some players were negotiating contracts whereby the club were liable for the income tax on the players contract and that a declared 80k was net, not gross like the rest of us. This came to light due to the agents taking cuts and the whole benefit in kind side of things throwing up red flags.
Given that sort of thing doesnt need to be declared as Jasper correctly pointed out, it makes me wonder whether the club have anything like this lurking under the table given the desparate position we were in last year. I would be very suprised, but its not impossible. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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