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Why is Potter essential to what you've just written, though? Surely those players would continue to play whoever is in charge, and we're not going to go out and buy finished articles when he's gone, are we?
It takes a certain type of manager but Potter is not the only one promoting young players and seeing them flourish in this division. Max Aarons, Rekeem Harper, Jayden Bogle, Jack Clarke etc. there are a lot of teenagers going from 0 to millions of quid each season here.
I don’t think we’d have seen the same kind of progression in Grimes, James, McBurnie, Byers under Clement or Carvahal for example
I don’t think we’d have seen the same kind of progression in Grimes, James, McBurnie, Byers under Clement or Carvahal for example
Clement used McBurnie in the PL. Carhalhal gave Roberts and James their debuts following Curtis' recommendations. Operating under the same restrictions (injuries, contract issues) as Potter we'd likely still see the same group of players emerge. Apart from Grimes those are the golden boys of the development side of the last few years, not a random selection. Who does theoretical Clement and Carvalhal utilise in their places?
Maybe James gets permission to go on loan to Yeovil? Keeps them in the football league (or struggles on the bobbly pitches). Maybe neither of those managers rates Asoro and DJ starts the season higher up the pecking order?
Clement used McBurnie in the PL. Carhalhal gave Roberts and James their debuts following Curtis' recommendations. Operating under the same restrictions (injuries, contract issues) as Potter we'd likely still see the same group of players emerge. Apart from Grimes those are the golden boys of the development side of the last few years, not a random selection. Who does theoretical Clement and Carvalhal utilise in their places?
Maybe James gets permission to go on loan to Yeovil? Keeps them in the football league (or struggles on the bobbly pitches). Maybe neither of those managers rates Asoro and DJ starts the season higher up the pecking order?
Clement used McBurnie in the PL and got very little in return. Carvahal gave James his debut and that's it. Roberts was given more of an opportunity under Carvahal - but he was very much the exception in terms of the U23s being given a chance to play. Even if the likes of Clement and Carvahal would have made more use of the U23s at Championship level they wouldn't have developed to anything like the same extent. Can you seriously imagine any of our recent managers (including Martinez and Rodgers for that matter) encouraging Rodon to dribble to the edge of the opposition area? Or use Grimes as a centre back? Not a chance.
You need to take the blinkers off Jasper, and (to mix my metaphors) smell the coffee. Potter is the real deal, and the chances of us being able to replace him with a manager of the same calibre, and suited to our needs (developing our own talent from within), are remote.
Clement used McBurnie in the PL and got very little in return. Carvahal gave James his debut and that's it. Roberts was given more of an opportunity under Carvahal - but he was very much the exception in terms of the U23s being given a chance to play. Even if the likes of Clement and Carvahal would have made more use of the U23s at Championship level they wouldn't have developed to anything like the same extent. Can you seriously imagine any of our recent managers (including Martinez and Rodgers for that matter) encouraging Rodon to dribble to the edge of the opposition area? Or use Grimes as a centre back? Not a chance.
You need to take the blinkers off Jasper, and (to mix my metaphors) smell the coffee. Potter is the real deal, and the chances of us being able to replace him with a manager of the same calibre, and suited to our needs (developing our own talent from within), are remote.
Rodon has been carrying the ball out of defence since the u18s. Potter's hardly the only manager that encourages it in senior football. Chris Wilder has his centre halves overlapping down the wings and crossing from the byline.
The biggest difference in your examples is the division, not the managers. McBurnie couldn't get a grip on the PL, and I still think he wouldn't. James should have got some minutes but Carvalhal went into his shell the second we popped out of the relegation zone for air. It's a misleading comparison given the situation and stakes.
I'm not the one with blinkers on, here. Potter is not the only manager in the world developing talent from within football clubs, and not the only reason we saw this group emerge this season. It's ludicrous to assign all credit for this season to the work of one man who only arrived last June. The building blocks were put in place over a period of 4-5 years, and relegation - in Potter's own words - removed the glass ceiling for players to progress here. He was always quick to credit the work of the academy and size and quality of the squad he inherited.
Did he get a theoretical 100% where mere mortal managers would have only got 70 or 80? Impossible to say. He did a good job with them and he's well-liked, but to imagine we wouldn't have seen "anything like" these sort of progressions (when most fans claim Potter had no choice but to play kids) is insulting to the quality of the players themselves imo. Grimes came in at the start of the summer a "model professional" determined to make his mark, it's not something that only emerged over time under Potter.
Maybe Harries gets a run of games under a different manager instead of Grimes dropping out of midfield so often? Maybe Rodon gets back in the side after his injury? Maybe Benda gets a chance? Hindsight isn't 20:20 in player development. Sliding doors moments all over the place.
Clement used McBurnie in the PL. Carhalhal gave Roberts and James their debuts following Curtis' recommendations. Operating under the same restrictions (injuries, contract issues) as Potter we'd likely still see the same group of players emerge. Apart from Grimes those are the golden boys of the development side of the last few years, not a random selection. Who does theoretical Clement and Carvalhal utilise in their places?
Maybe James gets permission to go on loan to Yeovil? Keeps them in the football league (or struggles on the bobbly pitches). Maybe neither of those managers rates Asoro and DJ starts the season higher up the pecking order?
I think you’ve misunderstood me slightly. I didn’t say I doubted they would play, I said I doubted we’d see the same progression in them.
James is a better player now than he was 6 months ago. I think you’ve said yourself he didn’t have much end product in the development squad, when people were criticising him for that earlier in the season. Grimes hadn’t set the world alight in his loan spells, Roberts flourished last season, Rodon looked great from the start to be fair, Byers was making that midfield slit his own towards the end.
I don’t think they would have come on as much under any of our last 4 managers. I’d imagine Potter would get more out of the next players to step up than a pragmatist.
Rodon has been carrying the ball out of defence since the u18s. Potter's hardly the only manager that encourages it in senior football. Chris Wilder has his centre halves overlapping down the wings and crossing from the byline.
The biggest difference in your examples is the division, not the managers. McBurnie couldn't get a grip on the PL, and I still think he wouldn't. James should have got some minutes but Carvalhal went into his shell the second we popped out of the relegation zone for air. It's a misleading comparison given the situation and stakes.
I'm not the one with blinkers on, here. Potter is not the only manager in the world developing talent from within football clubs, and not the only reason we saw this group emerge this season. It's ludicrous to assign all credit for this season to the work of one man who only arrived last June. The building blocks were put in place over a period of 4-5 years, and relegation - in Potter's own words - removed the glass ceiling for players to progress here. He was always quick to credit the work of the academy and size and quality of the squad he inherited.
Did he get a theoretical 100% where mere mortal managers would have only got 70 or 80? Impossible to say. He did a good job with them and he's well-liked, but to imagine we wouldn't have seen "anything like" these sort of progressions (when most fans claim Potter had no choice but to play kids) is insulting to the quality of the players themselves imo. Grimes came in at the start of the summer a "model professional" determined to make his mark, it's not something that only emerged over time under Potter.
Maybe Harries gets a run of games under a different manager instead of Grimes dropping out of midfield so often? Maybe Rodon gets back in the side after his injury? Maybe Benda gets a chance? Hindsight isn't 20:20 in player development. Sliding doors moments all over the place.
I've never claimed that Potter is the only one developing talent from within the club - but he's one of a rare breed. I also don't give all the credit to Potter, clearly Toshack and Richards deserve a lot of credit for the work they've done. But you're the one giving the impression that pretty much any manager could have done what Potter achieved this season.
You also ignore the huge progression made by our players this season - and not just the likes of Grimes and James, who've gone from being a bit hit and miss at the start of the season to outstanding performers most weeks. VDH has progressed immensely this season. In the past his distribution has been mediocre to say the least - this season it's got better and better. Under previous managers he very rarely advanced with ball at feet - it's been happening more and more often as the season progressed. Even CCV, who clearly isn't comfortable with advancing with the ball, went on a dribble in the last game. Even the likes of Routledge has blossomed again. Much of that will be down to the environment Potter has created, where he clearly gives players every opportunity to express themselves, and encourages risk-taking. There are plenty of decent managers out there in the Championship to whom such an approach would be unimaginable.
Potter isn't unique, as Farke and Wilder have proven. But do we have the leadership in the club to understand the qualities we need? We could appoint Hughton - who has a good track record, and is a decent manager. But the style of play that developed under him recently at Brighton suggests that push comes to shove he's a pragmatist, not an idealist. Exactly what we don't need.
I think you’ve misunderstood me slightly. I didn’t say I doubted they would play, I said I doubted we’d see the same progression in them.
James is a better player now than he was 6 months ago. I think you’ve said yourself he didn’t have much end product in the development squad, when people were criticising him for that earlier in the season. Grimes hadn’t set the world alight in his loan spells, Roberts flourished last season, Rodon looked great from the start to be fair, Byers was making that midfield slit his own towards the end.
I don’t think they would have come on as much under any of our last 4 managers. I’d imagine Potter would get more out of the next players to step up than a pragmatist.
I've definitely criticised DJ's finishing for years, yeah. That Stoke goal isn't something he's had in his locker before this season. Calmed down a lot since ripping Ipswich apart, game then developed month by month.
Jimmy-Floyd was a big fan of Grimes and saw him kicking on as soon as he got into a passing side that suited his strengths. Physically he's looking bigger and quicker than he did in the summer as well, with less ducking out of challenges.
Clement I've never liked but is supposedly a good coach, working at top teams. Carvalhal wasn't a pragmatist in this division. Bob Bradley's instep technique is next-gen stuff. Guidolin brought Alexis Sanchez through at Udinese, taking a small, fast winger and putting him up front in fluid systems to great effect (and profit).
If the club remains committed to a youth-focused strategy then I'm sure there are managers out there capable of bringing young players through. Other clubs are doing it, not only us. That process doesn't start with a particular manager (although it can certainly end with one if they're the wrong type), as Norwich's Stuart Webber says it starts at the top of a football club and requires a lot of departments to pull in the same direction to get consistent, positive results. In theory we now have that, given the division and financial limitations. Just need to make a sensible appointment to push the project another step forward, like we used to.
According to SSN Brighton are willing to meet the release clause for GP, I have no idea if that makes it certain that he will leave but if it's down to a decision from GP whether he will stay will hinge on whether he thinks he will get backing from the board - would you trust the board?
According to SSN Brighton are willing to meet the release clause for GP, I have no idea if that makes it certain that he will leave but if it's down to a decision from GP whether he will stay will hinge on whether he thinks he will get backing from the board - would you trust the board?
With the best will in the world he'll get more backing at Brighton given the resources available in the PL. If he wants money to spend and no pressure to sell players he's not going to stay in the Championship where that's a fact of life.
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