| If you voted Leave....... 11:18 - Jul 9 with 24679 views | westwalesed |
…….and there was a 2nd Referendum, as the "Peoples Vote" brigade (oh the irony) want to have, how would you vote?
Hypothetically if the question was:
a) Accept the Current Deal (assuming it doesn't get watered down further) or
b) Leave the EU with No Deal in place.
I'm appealing to people here, don't let this be hijacked, no insults and petty points. Just a statement of how you voted originally would vote now, and why?
So to kick off:
I voted Leave.
I would vote to leave without a deal.
I would do so because I believe that the only way of the UK getting the deal it wants is to negotiate from a position of full Sovereign Independence.
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| If you voted Leave....... on 13:56 - Jul 9 with 1603 views | peenemunde |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:24 - Jul 9 by Ace_Jack |
I voted remain
I would vote remain again
Brexit is unworkable, and for the sake of the country must be stopped at all costs. |
At all costs does that mean you are prepared for people to die ?. |  | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 13:56 - Jul 9 with 1601 views | WarwickHunt |
Woe betied? 😂
Is that what’s meant by financial constraints? |  | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:00 - Jul 9 with 1595 views | Highjack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 13:40 - Jul 9 by vetchonian |
spoken like a true dictator! |
Not at all. People can vote how they want. Even if they are not informed about how undemocratic the EU is. |  |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 14:10 - Jul 9 with 1574 views | Nookiejack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 13:49 - Jul 9 by Nookiejack |
Yes I did not see beyond the end of my nose. So I apologise for that.
However I don’t buy into your argument that because both sides make claims - you want another referendum.
Does that mean in each and every election where parties make claims - that you want to reverse the result of each one of them?
How do you know what the potential economic consequences are going to be? Mark Carney’s forecast says before Brexit have proved to be way off the mark.
We are currently in a trading block whose economic performance is sclerotic- the ECB is still conducting QE 10 years after the financial crisis. I think about half of Eurozone Govt Debt is monetised through QE. You want to continue to be a part of this?
I think there will be short term pain (I don’t know though no-one knows as there are too many variables) as EU politically can’t be seen to let us go quietly - however we will then be free to trade with areas of the world that have the greatest growth.
The EU lectures us on a hard border with Ireland - yet Germany is now going to send migrants back to countries where they first entered Europe - which means Italy, Hungary and Austria -which will result in them setting up hard borders - otherwise they will have to take all the migrants as that’s where they all arrive first in Europe.
Don”t you think it is mass uncontrolled immigration that has put the pressure on the NHS in the first place? So you have mass uncontrolled immigration - which means you have to then have even more immigration in respect of shoring up your public services? What size of population do you want in the U.K. It is now forecast to grow to 70milliom from about 56 million during 1970-2000 period.
At what level of U.K. population would you put up the drawbridge? |
PS I don’t think immigration will stop after Brexit - but you will have more power to control it.
I also believe in a limited amount of immigration as want UK citizens to have the possibility of emigrating. However that limit should be dependent on U.K. infrastructure.
One thing before the referendum was the fact that we did have the ability to control Non EU immigration which was running at the same levels of EU immigration - I think it was about a net 250k a year each - a net 500k in total. (Official figures only and I think they were calculated by surveys not through new National Insurance numbers issued).
The Tory Govt didn’t seem to want to control non EU migration before the referendum. All the Bank of England’s forecasts were also based on the fact that we needed immigration to grow GDP - however they never used to headline on GDP per head of population.
The elite and business want mass immigration as forces down wages - probably why the majority of people haven’t had any wagw growth or increase in living standards over the laat 10 years. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:10 - Jul 9 with 1574 views | Ace_Jack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 13:56 - Jul 9 by peenemunde |
At all costs does that mean you are prepared for people to die ?. |
No, although I'm happy to wait for the selfish baby boomers who put us into this situation to die off so we can scrap the whole mess. |  | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:16 - Jul 9 with 1559 views | peenemunde |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:10 - Jul 9 by Ace_Jack |
No, although I'm happy to wait for the selfish baby boomers who put us into this situation to die off so we can scrap the whole mess. |
The eu is dying and you can’t see that.
If people like you get their way, this country will resemble a 3rd world shite hole very soon.
Hopefully people like you will die off very soon. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:21 - Jul 9 with 1543 views | Morfa_Same |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:00 - Jul 9 by Highjack |
Not at all. People can vote how they want. Even if they are not informed about how undemocratic the EU is. |
We on the other hand have a hereditary head of state, an unelected second chamber and a FPTP election system that leaves most people effectively without a vote.
The EU could learn a lot about democracy from us. |  | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:24 - Jul 9 with 1530 views | Ace_Jack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:16 - Jul 9 by peenemunde |
The eu is dying and you can’t see that.
If people like you get their way, this country will resemble a 3rd world shite hole very soon.
Hopefully people like you will die off very soon. |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 14:32 - Jul 9 with 1509 views | Highjack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:21 - Jul 9 by Morfa_Same |
We on the other hand have a hereditary head of state, an unelected second chamber and a FPTP election system that leaves most people effectively without a vote.
The EU could learn a lot about democracy from us. |
And if there ever were a referendum to change those things you would absolutely have my full support. There are massive flaws in our democratic system. but the answer to that is not submission to an even more undemocratic institution. | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 14:38 - Jul 9 with 1488 views | peenemunde |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:24 - Jul 9 by Ace_Jack |
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That’s right run away you disgusting prick.
Wanting people to die off so you can get your own way.
What goes around comes around.
Remember that when one of your loved ones is on thier death bed. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:40 - Jul 9 with 1485 views | WarwickHunt |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:38 - Jul 9 by peenemunde |
That’s right run away you disgusting prick.
Wanting people to die off so you can get your own way.
What goes around comes around.
Remember that when one of your loved ones is on thier death bed. |
*their* | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:41 - Jul 9 with 1479 views | Ace_Jack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:38 - Jul 9 by peenemunde |
That’s right run away you disgusting prick.
Wanting people to die off so you can get your own way.
What goes around comes around.
Remember that when one of your loved ones is on thier death bed. |
for a troll who said they wanted the country to burn in the same thread, you dont half trigger easily.
Run along now you little cuck, soyboy, beta. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:41 - Jul 9 with 1479 views | Shaky |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:40 - Jul 9 by WarwickHunt |
*their* |
Loyalist spelling? |  |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 14:53 - Jul 9 with 1452 views | peenemunde |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:41 - Jul 9 by Ace_Jack |
for a troll who said they wanted the country to burn in the same thread, you dont half trigger easily.
Run along now you little cuck, soyboy, beta. |
What goes around comes around......wishing that some of the most vulnerable in society die off.
Disgusting. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:55 - Jul 9 with 1441 views | vetchonian |
| If you voted Leave....... on 13:47 - Jul 9 by BarrySwan |
I see..... so how did those who voted remain know what the outcomes would be if we had remained then?
They of course didn't, and don't, so by your criteria all their votes should have been discounted.
And
Yes the vote was a valid one. I'm surprised you have to ask.
Or are only outcomes that you agree with valid? |
You have misunderstood my point.....that is there was a referendum but no one really knew the potential outcome as no one had all the facts to what the UK would be like post Brexit. As a result many people I know voted with emotionally triggerd opinion,surrounding immigration,"sovereignty" and the issues around our finanacial contributions to the EU
Personally I voted remain based on my belief that the UK is so tied into the EU as regards trade the economic fall out will be horrendous and take many years to recover.
Selfishly I work for a business of which 85% of its product goes straight to its parent in the EU ...tight margins exist so any extra cost could make us no longer a viable option with the threat of closure and transfer to Eastern EU...along with the border controls may slow logisitcs.
I travel freely in the EU currently for work and pleasure...how will that work post Brexit?
I do have concnerns regarding inmmigration BUT the issue is that ship sailed a long time ago ....plus post Brexit there will still be the migration from non EU nationals which is not governed by EU law..so WE the UK have had controls on this despite being EU members
FInanacially we all know we pay in but we do receive grants back from the EU which Wales have benefitted from...I do not believe any UK government will redistribute the monies saved fairly....and it will go predominantely to the South East
Thats why I voted to remain amongst some other issues. The majority decided to leave..I accept that but in a democracy I am still allowed to express an opinion and my opinion is that many who voted to leave may well vote differently had there been more real understanding of life post Brexit.
The whole process of finding a deal has been a disaster....it is not possible to just "walk away" we are no longer just an island the landscape has changed so much over the last 40 years the UK is not the Great Britain "baby boomers" knew..the World is a different place too
SO to answer your questions no one knews the outcomes...but at least remaining maintained a "status quo" so economically there was more of a chance of an understanding....yes the issues would remain around "sovereignty" and the federalisation of the UK into the EU would still exist but then that was up to us to work against that.....there are many other EU memebers who are anti some of the political /beureaucratic interference...surely all MEPs from all nations could unite against the commision and make their positions untenable?
Finally I knew that to leave the EU we would get a deal as then other dissastisified members would jump ship too..
Then people will say lets leave and wait for the EU to implode and then we can deal with those countries .....what of life in the meantime...many jobs lost etc. [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 15:03]
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| If you voted Leave....... on 14:55 - Jul 9 with 1439 views | moonie |
That s pisspoor ace. You need to apologise
Omarjack fecked up and apologised for being a kunt, so should you | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:59 - Jul 9 with 1423 views | Highjack |
Well this went well. | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 15:00 - Jul 9 with 1422 views | Ace_Jack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:53 - Jul 9 by peenemunde |
What goes around comes around......wishing that some of the most vulnerable in society die off.
Disgusting. |
lol, you wanted the whole country to burn. Or was that just a metaphor for socioeconomic collapse? | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 15:02 - Jul 9 with 1414 views | BarrySwan |
| If you voted Leave....... on 14:55 - Jul 9 by vetchonian |
You have misunderstood my point.....that is there was a referendum but no one really knew the potential outcome as no one had all the facts to what the UK would be like post Brexit. As a result many people I know voted with emotionally triggerd opinion,surrounding immigration,"sovereignty" and the issues around our finanacial contributions to the EU
Personally I voted remain based on my belief that the UK is so tied into the EU as regards trade the economic fall out will be horrendous and take many years to recover.
Selfishly I work for a business of which 85% of its product goes straight to its parent in the EU ...tight margins exist so any extra cost could make us no longer a viable option with the threat of closure and transfer to Eastern EU...along with the border controls may slow logisitcs.
I travel freely in the EU currently for work and pleasure...how will that work post Brexit?
I do have concnerns regarding inmmigration BUT the issue is that ship sailed a long time ago ....plus post Brexit there will still be the migration from non EU nationals which is not governed by EU law..so WE the UK have had controls on this despite being EU members
FInanacially we all know we pay in but we do receive grants back from the EU which Wales have benefitted from...I do not believe any UK government will redistribute the monies saved fairly....and it will go predominantely to the South East
Thats why I voted to remain amongst some other issues. The majority decided to leave..I accept that but in a democracy I am still allowed to express an opinion and my opinion is that many who voted to leave may well vote differently had there been more real understanding of life post Brexit.
The whole process of finding a deal has been a disaster....it is not possible to just "walk away" we are no longer just an island the landscape has changed so much over the last 40 years the UK is not the Great Britain "baby boomers" knew..the World is a different place too
SO to answer your questions no one knews the outcomes...but at least remaining maintained a "status quo" so economically there was more of a chance of an understanding....yes the issues would remain around "sovereignty" and the federalisation of the UK into the EU would still exist but then that was up to us to work against that.....there are many other EU memebers who are anti some of the political /beureaucratic interference...surely all MEPs from all nations could unite against the commision and make their positions untenable?
Finally I knew that to leave the EU we would get a deal as then other dissastisified members would jump ship too..
Then people will say lets leave and wait for the EU to implode and then we can deal with those countries .....what of life in the meantime...many jobs lost etc. [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 15:03]
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And personally I voted leave after working for two MEPs and working in the the EU parliament buildings in Brussels witnessing the corrupt, disgusting, undemocratic, parasitic practices of the unelected lawmakers and bodies within on a daily basis
So I did rather understand the implications of remaining in such a disgusting parasitic organisation.
Did you? [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 15:02]
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| If you voted Leave....... on 15:21 - Jul 9 with 1394 views | vetchonian |
| If you voted Leave....... on 15:02 - Jul 9 by BarrySwan |
And personally I voted leave after working for two MEPs and working in the the EU parliament buildings in Brussels witnessing the corrupt, disgusting, undemocratic, parasitic practices of the unelected lawmakers and bodies within on a daily basis
So I did rather understand the implications of remaining in such a disgusting parasitic organisation.
Did you? [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 15:02]
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NO need to be so aggressive!
Do you also think the UK is any different?
Do you remember Yes Minisiter and Yes Prime Minister behind the comedy is a realism all countries are run by the Beuraucrats andcivil servants. The elected officials be it at local or National level get manipulated by the various departments
But not having your expereince of workin in Brussels I cannot comment....but would ask why people like yoursleves cannot influence change at Brussels? | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 15:41 - Jul 9 with 1375 views | BarrySwan |
| If you voted Leave....... on 15:21 - Jul 9 by vetchonian |
NO need to be so aggressive!
Do you also think the UK is any different?
Do you remember Yes Minisiter and Yes Prime Minister behind the comedy is a realism all countries are run by the Beuraucrats andcivil servants. The elected officials be it at local or National level get manipulated by the various departments
But not having your expereince of workin in Brussels I cannot comment....but would ask why people like yoursleves cannot influence change at Brussels? |
No I Don't think that the UK is much if any different.
So on that basis why add yet another level and body of corruption and self preservation into the mix?
As regards changing things as I have ponted out before here, the only democratically elected part of he EU is the parliament which has no automatic power to create nor alter the legislation put in front of it by the unelected beurocrats.
One quite simple example is that even the MEP troughers in the EU parliament couldn't stomach the costs of the monthly transfer of everything from Brussels to Strasbourg for one week every month and have twice voted overwhelmingly to stop it and on each occasion the democratic vote was refused and ignored by the beurocrats really running things.
I'm surprised that no one has referred to the well publicised replacement in recent years of the Greek and Italian governments and their roles being handed over to two teams of EU appointed civil servants.
You think that this sort of behaviour and standards are fine do you?
Now i would replace the spineless embarrassment to Britain that is Theresa May in an instant, but I would certainly baulk at replacing a democratically elected government with one made of individuals of my choice.
No such qualms from the EU however. [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 15:43]
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| If you voted Leave....... on 15:51 - Jul 9 with 1358 views | vetchonian |
| If you voted Leave....... on 15:41 - Jul 9 by BarrySwan |
No I Don't think that the UK is much if any different.
So on that basis why add yet another level and body of corruption and self preservation into the mix?
As regards changing things as I have ponted out before here, the only democratically elected part of he EU is the parliament which has no automatic power to create nor alter the legislation put in front of it by the unelected beurocrats.
One quite simple example is that even the MEP troughers in the EU parliament couldn't stomach the costs of the monthly transfer of everything from Brussels to Strasbourg for one week every month and have twice voted overwhelmingly to stop it and on each occasion the democratic vote was refused and ignored by the beurocrats really running things.
I'm surprised that no one has referred to the well publicised replacement in recent years of the Greek and Italian governments and their roles being handed over to two teams of EU appointed civil servants.
You think that this sort of behaviour and standards are fine do you?
Now i would replace the spineless embarrassment to Britain that is Theresa May in an instant, but I would certainly baulk at replacing a democratically elected government with one made of individuals of my choice.
No such qualms from the EU however. [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 15:43]
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SO how does this work then?
The European Commission is held democratically accountable by the European Parliament, which has the right to approve and dismiss the entire political leadership of the Commission.
The European Commission is also accountable for putting the EU budget into practice. Every year, the Parliament chooses to give (or not) its blessing to the European Commission on the way it has managed the EU budget. This process is called the discharge. The Parliament bases its decision on several reports from the European Court of Auditors and from the European Commission, including the annual management and performance report for the EU budget.
Why doesnt the EU pariliament and the heads of each member state exercise its controls of the choice of president if things are so rotten?
The UK itself has aleast 2 commisioners what are they doing to influence things?
Surely the EU parliament if they "feel" impotnent should report back to their member states and together resolve to dissolve the EU and thereby make the beureaucrats not neccessary? | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 17:46 - Jul 9 with 1309 views | Highjack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 15:51 - Jul 9 by vetchonian |
SO how does this work then?
The European Commission is held democratically accountable by the European Parliament, which has the right to approve and dismiss the entire political leadership of the Commission.
The European Commission is also accountable for putting the EU budget into practice. Every year, the Parliament chooses to give (or not) its blessing to the European Commission on the way it has managed the EU budget. This process is called the discharge. The Parliament bases its decision on several reports from the European Court of Auditors and from the European Commission, including the annual management and performance report for the EU budget.
Why doesnt the EU pariliament and the heads of each member state exercise its controls of the choice of president if things are so rotten?
The UK itself has aleast 2 commisioners what are they doing to influence things?
Surely the EU parliament if they "feel" impotnent should report back to their member states and together resolve to dissolve the EU and thereby make the beureaucrats not neccessary? |
Firstly The U.K. currently has 0 commissioners, not 2.
The commissioners are appointed by their mates. For example that nice Mr Blair appointed the prince of darkness Mr Mandelson despite him being embroiled in scandal at home and largely rejected by the U.K. electorate... The European Parliament then gets to elect him to the commission to represent the United Kingdom that’s true... But hang on, he’s literally the only candidate. Very democratic. There are absolutely no other alternatives. Cameron did the same with his mate. Baron Hill of Oakshot or something he was called. Some PR guru who had helped Cameron get up the slippery slope to success. Very cosy.
And very democratic.
Same situation when electing the various presidents. Only ever one candidate.
As for your last paragraph, that’s exactly what UKIP did. | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 19:30 - Jul 9 with 1280 views | vetchonian |
| If you voted Leave....... on 17:46 - Jul 9 by Highjack |
Firstly The U.K. currently has 0 commissioners, not 2.
The commissioners are appointed by their mates. For example that nice Mr Blair appointed the prince of darkness Mr Mandelson despite him being embroiled in scandal at home and largely rejected by the U.K. electorate... The European Parliament then gets to elect him to the commission to represent the United Kingdom that’s true... But hang on, he’s literally the only candidate. Very democratic. There are absolutely no other alternatives. Cameron did the same with his mate. Baron Hill of Oakshot or something he was called. Some PR guru who had helped Cameron get up the slippery slope to success. Very cosy.
And very democratic.
Same situation when electing the various presidents. Only ever one candidate.
As for your last paragraph, that’s exactly what UKIP did. |
Sorry I got this wrong according to the website the UK has 1
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/commissioners/2014-2019_en
Yes and I do believe Neil Kinnock served as a commissioner too | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 19:37 - Jul 9 with 1276 views | Highjack |
Yep I was wrong too. Sir Julian King. They slipped him in under the radar. But the fact none of us have ever heard of him before and none of us know who he is and what he believes in sort of reinforces my point. | |
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