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I think it is time that we all sat up and faced a touch of realism. That realism, I'm afraid, is that we are in a relegation dogfight and nothing I have seen since August is able to convince me otherwise.
Firstly, I have every faith that Keith Hill will turn around the current situation. He is far and away the best manager we have ever had, has the experience, knowledge and ability to rectify our faults but he has a very big job ahead of him and some serious decisions to make.
Defensively we are woeful. We conceded 3 today but it could easily have been 6. We are naive, lacking confidence and only Harrison McGahey could walk away from today with his head held high. The situation at left-back is worrying beyond belief with both our options nothing short of absymal of late and our left-sided centre-half hasn't been good enough for many years now. He makes basic mistakes all the time, today his calamitous defending should have cost us a further 2 goals and he worries me both on and off the ball every time I watch him. In years gone by he would easily have been good enough for our side, now however we are trying to compete at the top end of League One.
Replacing the likes of Allen, Lund and NML was always going to be an impossible task. We have replaced them with cast offs that no other clubs wanted and expecting KH to work miracles every time is asking a lot. I know where we belong in the footballing pyramid but can we realistically expect KH to keep over-achieving with rejects from other clubs, some of whom are below us in the footballing structure? It is a big task, perhaps too big in 2017 with the current bunch we have on the pay roll.
At present I firmly believe that KH doesn't know his best team and system to play them in. I have struggled to see the appreciation of Hendo in midfield full stop, he is our best centre-forward and needs to play there. I know that we lack creativity and pace throughout the side but however we line up, I feel that Hendo needs somehow to be at the tip of it all. The same is true of Matty Done, not able to function properly in midfield and therefore arguably needs to play through the middle.
KH has arguably his poorest ever squad for a League One campaign. I'm sure he doesn't need the likes of me to tell him the task ahead, however he will need to make some huge decisions on players if we are to pull through the other end and survive relegation.
With the current bunch, I cannot see us scoring enough goals as even with Hendo and Done in attack, we completely lack any form of creativity to provide a platform for them. Calvin, as much as we love him , scores very few and creates even less and therefore we don't have that spark anywhere across the middle of the park as I see it now. Jordan Williams (Barrow) has been a huge dissapointment and we need an injection of flair from the loan market at the earliest opportunity the rules permit. The Directors need to back KH even more than they have ever done before, let him go out and bring in a couple of players who will help us at the top end of the field and relieve the pressure on the defence.
So all-in-all, not a good day. I honestly didn't feel that relegation was an option until today, now however I am beginning to fear we have a long and hard few months ahead. I just cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel at present and like all the travelling faithful today, I need to see something that changes my pessimistic outlook.
Up The Dale!
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Smell The Coffee on 06:37 - Nov 20 with 2846 views
When we were getting all those wins this time last year, Joe Thompson was a regular starter. He used to hold up an end while someone on the other side (not always NML) scored the fours and sixes. I think we've missed him.
When we were getting all those wins this time last year, Joe Thompson was a regular starter. He used to hold up an end while someone on the other side (not always NML) scored the fours and sixes. I think we've missed him.
The same can be said for Peter Vincenti.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Not surprising at all,he offered very little if anything when coming on towards the end of his time with us....
That's true, as his form deteriorated following a series of injuries, but what he did add to the mix was physicality and making life hard for defenders, something that BDMC identifies as lacking on the match thread. Once his form went, I think he tried to make up for it with being over-aggressive, as we saw at Boundary Park last April. His spell at Dale had come to an end
We now only have Davies who can push defences physically, and then only when he's fit and i don't believe he is - it seems an achievement just getting him on the pitch so starting might be too much of a stretch, for now at least
Calvin's lost an edge since his indiscretion. He's not a bad footballer but doesn't get in the opposition's faces (pun not intended) and possibly doesn't relish that role, which you need to for any effect
It's becoming increasingly clear that the weapons we have at our disposal to hurt the opposition are pretty threadbare, both in midfield and attack and our results don't lie. It's suggested elsewhere that Joe Thompson might make a difference, but whilst his return to availability would be welcome for many reasons, it would only add solidity rather than a cutting edge
It remains my opinion that Hilly was shafted by Redshaw, but whatever the truth, the manager found himself on the cusp of the season with his options closing down around him, and then illness struck the squad
We are where we are, and he needs to come out fighting, not littering his interviews with criticisms of players. That's what I mean by "he's still learning". But will he?
That's true, as his form deteriorated following a series of injuries, but what he did add to the mix was physicality and making life hard for defenders, something that BDMC identifies as lacking on the match thread. Once his form went, I think he tried to make up for it with being over-aggressive, as we saw at Boundary Park last April. His spell at Dale had come to an end
We now only have Davies who can push defences physically, and then only when he's fit and i don't believe he is - it seems an achievement just getting him on the pitch so starting might be too much of a stretch, for now at least
Calvin's lost an edge since his indiscretion. He's not a bad footballer but doesn't get in the opposition's faces (pun not intended) and possibly doesn't relish that role, which you need to for any effect
It's becoming increasingly clear that the weapons we have at our disposal to hurt the opposition are pretty threadbare, both in midfield and attack and our results don't lie. It's suggested elsewhere that Joe Thompson might make a difference, but whilst his return to availability would be welcome for many reasons, it would only add solidity rather than a cutting edge
It remains my opinion that Hilly was shafted by Redshaw, but whatever the truth, the manager found himself on the cusp of the season with his options closing down around him, and then illness struck the squad
We are where we are, and he needs to come out fighting, not littering his interviews with criticisms of players. That's what I mean by "he's still learning". But will he?
[Post edited 20 Nov 2017 10:52]
Some good points DA,Hilly needs to grow a set swallow some of his pride and strengthen the team,we desperately need a dominant ball winning centre half,a decent centre mid who can speed the game up and a striker who busts a gut and knows where the net is,along the lines of Grant Holt. We are too soft all through the team....
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Smell The Coffee on 12:18 - Nov 20 with 2492 views
Only been to one game this season so rely heavily on the comments on here from those of you that attend the majority of matches and it would seem that unless more than a couple of players find form, along with Hill finding that master stroke to nullify the opposition, and as many have already stated, we will need the help of the loan market.
With that in mind, I've just been looking at our squad page on the o/s. We have 26 players (32 including JT,BBM, Collis, Wade, Ward and Kearney).
Without shipping a few out, can the club afford to pay anyone of known quality which is what we'll need given the (under-performing?) players we already have? On the other hand, can they afford not to?
YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do.
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Smell The Coffee on 12:43 - Nov 20 with 2448 views
Only been to one game this season so rely heavily on the comments on here from those of you that attend the majority of matches and it would seem that unless more than a couple of players find form, along with Hill finding that master stroke to nullify the opposition, and as many have already stated, we will need the help of the loan market.
With that in mind, I've just been looking at our squad page on the o/s. We have 26 players (32 including JT,BBM, Collis, Wade, Ward and Kearney).
Without shipping a few out, can the club afford to pay anyone of known quality which is what we'll need given the (under-performing?) players we already have? On the other hand, can they afford not to?
The problem there, is that whilst we might've been an attractive proposition for clubs to loan us their underused talent when we were riding high in the table, there won't be many clubs or players who'll be keen to take a risk on a club in a relegation battle
We've seen with Nthle how he shone against Bromley when the pressure was off, which led to calls for his retention against Oldham ahead of Bunney. Then the reality kicked in and he was withdrawn at half time, out of his depth. There's always that risk with loanees, whatever their status
KH has some pretty serious calls to make between now and the end of January. Whilst we can be critical of some of his decisions from the sidelines (i.e. this forum, which is what it's all about) when it comes to the bigger picture he deserves our total support
This might be a controversial opinion, but I would like to see Keith Keane fit and selected at the earliest opportunity. It's not that long since people on this board were rhapsodising about his ability to read the game and to perform, to some eyes, as a League 1 version of Mascherano. His sending off at the start of the season seemed to reduce his status on this board remarkably, but he remains on the books, albeit injured.
I think we need someone at the back of midfield who can read a game.
When we signed Davies from Bradford, I was delighted that we had a decent powerful forward, and his early form for Dale showed an impressive return of goals per games played, until injury almost a year ag, robbed us of his powers and I don't think we've seen many 90 minute performances since that time. In his case its a question of fitness and not ability.
Which brings us to the defence. Whilst we can be satisfied that the incumbent right back is clearly the pick of the bunch, I cannot recall a less stable centre back pairing in all my years of watching Dale. I don't buy the line that we need a partner for McGahey. His errors are as numerous as Big Jim's, but somehow he escapes the opprobrium that McNulty does not. Whether or not this is down to age/inexperience, it matters not when another three points go west. Then we peer with trepidation at the left back berth. Yes, Bunney can lollop forward and produce fizzing crosses every once in a while. More frequent though are the mishits, misplaced passes and the discipline issues. Tightening-up the mistakes will tighten up the performance and thereby the results, but until then, we witness the same mistakes made repeatedly.
Up top, our most consistent forward over the last four seasons is in, er, midfield.
I would like to see a bit of know-how in the starting XI - the midfield is desperately short of experience and though it is good that youth is given a chance at Dale, I think that a balance is needed just now. So my wish-list is fairly short: an experienced midfielder to read the game and provide the know-how (Keane or someone from outside?); an authoritative centre back to partner one or the other (Daniels or another loanee?); a forward playing up front (Henderson) and a return to the attacking ethos that meant that opposing teams did not turn up expecting to win.
NB - pointing the finger at bury and the way that matters are conducted there is not helpful. Aside from any alleged irregularities, their playing squad is far more potent than ours (on paper), and while we pat ourselves on the back as to how we do things, I consider it far more likely, as things stand, that it will be us that disappears down the chute into L2, pointing at bury as we go, and as they wave right back at us.
Not a prospect to savour.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2017 12:48]
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Smell The Coffee on 13:37 - Nov 20 with 2345 views
The problem there, is that whilst we might've been an attractive proposition for clubs to loan us their underused talent when we were riding high in the table, there won't be many clubs or players who'll be keen to take a risk on a club in a relegation battle
We've seen with Nthle how he shone against Bromley when the pressure was off, which led to calls for his retention against Oldham ahead of Bunney. Then the reality kicked in and he was withdrawn at half time, out of his depth. There's always that risk with loanees, whatever their status
KH has some pretty serious calls to make between now and the end of January. Whilst we can be critical of some of his decisions from the sidelines (i.e. this forum, which is what it's all about) when it comes to the bigger picture he deserves our total support
Yes, I agree opposite ends of the table merit differing opportunities to loanees which is why I wondered if there may be a high cost in tempting a better calibre player. Also, let's not forget, Hill himself is someone players appear to have an attraction to.
Maybe the best scenario would be something akin to Finberty's suggestions.
I realise you weren't suggesting otherwise, but just to be clear, KH will have my support even if it's in league 2.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2017 14:24]
YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do.
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Smell The Coffee on 14:34 - Nov 20 with 2266 views
When we were getting all those wins this time last year, Joe Thompson was a regular starter. He used to hold up an end while someone on the other side (not always NML) scored the fours and sixes. I think we've missed him.
That's an interesting point. One thing I feel we've missed most prominently this season is the influence of our attacking fullbacks. A 'defensive' winger like JT just in front of them allowed either Bunney or Raff, depending on which side Thompson was playing on, to really venture forward with the security of having someone to defend if things went wrong. They don't really have that this season, as Inman, for all his talents, isn't a defender (as we saw for Oldham's first goal), and Andrew isn't quick enough to track back. So I think Raff and Bunney are missing that security in front of them, and it's showing in their hesitancy to fly forwards.
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Smell The Coffee on 14:54 - Nov 20 with 2244 views
Before anybody thinks this is a dig at Hill let me say its not he is the best man to have at the helm.
Now If anybody disagrees with your O P then there is denial through out the club coaching staff, playing staff, boardroom and on the terrace. We are in a right pickle I cant see where the next win is coming from I don't see a natural leader on the pitch how many captains has Hill tried? who was the last capt fantastic? last year the arrival of Holt gave a struggling team and supporters belief his presence on and off the pitch was immense. Rickie Lambert till end of season anybody?
[Post edited 18 Nov 2017 20:07]
Good post Kiwi, after having a go at the likes of me for telling people to smell the coffee all season. Our form as I quote 49thSeason is " We haven't won away since 13th April, we have only won 4 away in the last 12 months. in the last 34 games, (17 this season and the last 17 of last season) we have won 8, drawn 15 and lost 11. Lambert could come out of retirement easily . Unfortunately I am with Chaff and a few others I dont see Hill sorting this out. His arrogance knows no bounds, he has signed these poor players in the hope one or two turn out to be gems. Hasnt worked this time. Its going to be a long hard season. Despite what the keyboard mafia on here think I am as pained as any Dale fan to see us perform this way. We are all feeling it and have tried to get behind the team on the pitch. I just hope we come across 4 worse teams than us this season and survive and forget about this nightmare. I know one up the road who are infinitely worse than us , but strangely they do have the class of players to get them out of it, just not performing :-)
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Smell The Coffee on 15:24 - Nov 20 with 2216 views
Good post Kiwi, after having a go at the likes of me for telling people to smell the coffee all season. Our form as I quote 49thSeason is " We haven't won away since 13th April, we have only won 4 away in the last 12 months. in the last 34 games, (17 this season and the last 17 of last season) we have won 8, drawn 15 and lost 11. Lambert could come out of retirement easily . Unfortunately I am with Chaff and a few others I dont see Hill sorting this out. His arrogance knows no bounds, he has signed these poor players in the hope one or two turn out to be gems. Hasnt worked this time. Its going to be a long hard season. Despite what the keyboard mafia on here think I am as pained as any Dale fan to see us perform this way. We are all feeling it and have tried to get behind the team on the pitch. I just hope we come across 4 worse teams than us this season and survive and forget about this nightmare. I know one up the road who are infinitely worse than us , but strangely they do have the class of players to get them out of it, just not performing :-)
By class of players do you mean just simply bigger names?
Our players have never been good enough reading your posts yet spectacularly proven you wrong for so long.... remember all these conference players like NML and the like "rejects" from other clubs?
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Smell The Coffee on 16:03 - Nov 20 with 2177 views
This might be a controversial opinion, but I would like to see Keith Keane fit and selected at the earliest opportunity. It's not that long since people on this board were rhapsodising about his ability to read the game and to perform, to some eyes, as a League 1 version of Mascherano. His sending off at the start of the season seemed to reduce his status on this board remarkably, but he remains on the books, albeit injured.
I think we need someone at the back of midfield who can read a game.
When we signed Davies from Bradford, I was delighted that we had a decent powerful forward, and his early form for Dale showed an impressive return of goals per games played, until injury almost a year ag, robbed us of his powers and I don't think we've seen many 90 minute performances since that time. In his case its a question of fitness and not ability.
Which brings us to the defence. Whilst we can be satisfied that the incumbent right back is clearly the pick of the bunch, I cannot recall a less stable centre back pairing in all my years of watching Dale. I don't buy the line that we need a partner for McGahey. His errors are as numerous as Big Jim's, but somehow he escapes the opprobrium that McNulty does not. Whether or not this is down to age/inexperience, it matters not when another three points go west. Then we peer with trepidation at the left back berth. Yes, Bunney can lollop forward and produce fizzing crosses every once in a while. More frequent though are the mishits, misplaced passes and the discipline issues. Tightening-up the mistakes will tighten up the performance and thereby the results, but until then, we witness the same mistakes made repeatedly.
Up top, our most consistent forward over the last four seasons is in, er, midfield.
I would like to see a bit of know-how in the starting XI - the midfield is desperately short of experience and though it is good that youth is given a chance at Dale, I think that a balance is needed just now. So my wish-list is fairly short: an experienced midfielder to read the game and provide the know-how (Keane or someone from outside?); an authoritative centre back to partner one or the other (Daniels or another loanee?); a forward playing up front (Henderson) and a return to the attacking ethos that meant that opposing teams did not turn up expecting to win.
NB - pointing the finger at bury and the way that matters are conducted there is not helpful. Aside from any alleged irregularities, their playing squad is far more potent than ours (on paper), and while we pat ourselves on the back as to how we do things, I consider it far more likely, as things stand, that it will be us that disappears down the chute into L2, pointing at bury as we go, and as they wave right back at us.
Not a prospect to savour.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2017 12:48]
I agree, Keane has given many outstanding performances, one that immediately springs to mind is last season's cup win at Carlisle. Again I agree about McGahey, if he had a good experienced centre half alongside him (a present day Joe Cooke!) it would make a huge difference. McNulty is always likely to drop a clanger and cannot instill much confidence in the rest of defence. Every match we use the baffling tactic of all 11 players in the box defending corners (if all 11 arent in the box the rest are usually no more than a couple of yards outside it) but even then, the opposition nearly always get an effort on goal. If we do manage to clear it, then it's back in our box immediately. If anyone has an explanation id love to hear it.
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Smell The Coffee on 16:48 - Nov 20 with 2083 views
I agree, Keane has given many outstanding performances, one that immediately springs to mind is last season's cup win at Carlisle. Again I agree about McGahey, if he had a good experienced centre half alongside him (a present day Joe Cooke!) it would make a huge difference. McNulty is always likely to drop a clanger and cannot instill much confidence in the rest of defence. Every match we use the baffling tactic of all 11 players in the box defending corners (if all 11 arent in the box the rest are usually no more than a couple of yards outside it) but even then, the opposition nearly always get an effort on goal. If we do manage to clear it, then it's back in our box immediately. If anyone has an explanation id love to hear it.
I posted the exact same thing about defending corners,it's ridiculous and just invites pressure with no outlet if we do for some bizarre reason manage to actually clear the first ball......
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Smell The Coffee on 16:53 - Nov 20 with 2071 views
For me, the biggest single change I would make is making sure we have more players in the box. We need to be bursting our guts to get into the box. Look at Rashford leading to the Pogba goal. If the player is in the box,they are picking up scraps, in the Chelsea match, the goalie saves, but Morata is sniffing,feeding off the scraps and puts the ball in the back of the net. You’ve got to get more sniffing in the box. Done, Hendo, Inman and Andrew are all capable of getting in the box and scoring.
Davies should have been on the pitch 10 minutes earlier. One of Keith’s biggest failings is leaving his subs too late. I know there is a risk that we might get a late injury and go down to 10 men but that is an acceptable risk.
The team needs to take more care when passing. We were on the counter attack in the first half, Rathbone had the ball and just needed to pass the ball to the winger...he fired it into touch. In the second half, we were on the counter attack again, and Raff was making himself available on the wing. Our pass to him was woeful, too strong and into touch. Players should take more care and measure passes better. Back to basics. Not rocket science. Just get the basics right.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2017 7:07]
Look at the "hoof" from McGahey that fell straight to the clown Dummingan to then head it to Done to go on and score....... original pass nowhere near a Dale shirt. Got lucky or what?
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Smell The Coffee on 18:56 - Nov 20 with 1969 views
This might be a controversial opinion, but I would like to see Keith Keane fit and selected at the earliest opportunity. It's not that long since people on this board were rhapsodising about his ability to read the game and to perform, to some eyes, as a League 1 version of Mascherano. His sending off at the start of the season seemed to reduce his status on this board remarkably, but he remains on the books, albeit injured.
I think we need someone at the back of midfield who can read a game.
When we signed Davies from Bradford, I was delighted that we had a decent powerful forward, and his early form for Dale showed an impressive return of goals per games played, until injury almost a year ag, robbed us of his powers and I don't think we've seen many 90 minute performances since that time. In his case its a question of fitness and not ability.
Which brings us to the defence. Whilst we can be satisfied that the incumbent right back is clearly the pick of the bunch, I cannot recall a less stable centre back pairing in all my years of watching Dale. I don't buy the line that we need a partner for McGahey. His errors are as numerous as Big Jim's, but somehow he escapes the opprobrium that McNulty does not. Whether or not this is down to age/inexperience, it matters not when another three points go west. Then we peer with trepidation at the left back berth. Yes, Bunney can lollop forward and produce fizzing crosses every once in a while. More frequent though are the mishits, misplaced passes and the discipline issues. Tightening-up the mistakes will tighten up the performance and thereby the results, but until then, we witness the same mistakes made repeatedly.
Up top, our most consistent forward over the last four seasons is in, er, midfield.
I would like to see a bit of know-how in the starting XI - the midfield is desperately short of experience and though it is good that youth is given a chance at Dale, I think that a balance is needed just now. So my wish-list is fairly short: an experienced midfielder to read the game and provide the know-how (Keane or someone from outside?); an authoritative centre back to partner one or the other (Daniels or another loanee?); a forward playing up front (Henderson) and a return to the attacking ethos that meant that opposing teams did not turn up expecting to win.
NB - pointing the finger at bury and the way that matters are conducted there is not helpful. Aside from any alleged irregularities, their playing squad is far more potent than ours (on paper), and while we pat ourselves on the back as to how we do things, I consider it far more likely, as things stand, that it will be us that disappears down the chute into L2, pointing at bury as we go, and as they wave right back at us.
Not a prospect to savour.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2017 12:48]
Surely, as fans, we can discuss anything we want about our club or other clubs.
'Pointing the finger at bury', as you put it, is a completely separate issue from our own form and prospects, which have been discussed and dissected at length much more frequently on here and will no doubt continue to be.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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Smell The Coffee on 20:03 - Nov 20 with 1897 views
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