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Reply | Is McDonald Sam A,s last Laugh???
at 11:39 31 May 2015
Sam did well for us, but that was mostly because he had the support of the board at the time. Let's not kid ourselves that that's likely to happen, unless you classify 1 year contracts, short term loans and £150 a week basics as support. The actual reasons for the investment at the time are well known, and unlikely to be repeated.
In all seriousness, I can't see him taking the job. Big Sam will advise him against it. His agent will advise him against it. And Big Sam won't be out of work for long, and will likely be wanting his Number 2 there with him, wherever he ends up. |
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Reply | What do we think of the BFC alternative shirt?
at 11:32 31 May 2015
I really liked some of the Errea offerings but having Wonga on them was always an issue. I think this is a decent offering. I can't imagine the official offering being any better, and this doesn't have a poxy sponsor on it.
Tbh I can't see myself getting another shirt whilst the O's own the club, especially if rumours are to be believed and it ends up with Oystons or the BFC Hotel on it. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 15:14 29 May 2015
SATW makes a fair point about how we were under Riga. It really doesn't matter how much support we offer team and manager if the owners don't back the team and manager. That old chestnut that was quoted 'if we win the first 5 they'll all come running back'. Football supporters are just fickle enough that there's probably some truth in that. But we're back to the issue of money again. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 12:05 29 May 2015
TT. The club cannot function with Karl in place. The entire football world is wise to him and want nothing to do with him.
It isn't about supporters who want success going to the dogs. We all want success. Karl has backed us into a corner. Nobody with any talent will come here. This season is already gone. The smell of death is around our club. If you think there is any way, even if we all joined a massive Oyston Love In tomorrow, there is a chance of success with an Oyston at the club, you need a reality check.
This club is in orchestrated decline. Whatever the reason behind the Parliament, you can be sure it isn't for the fans interests, or the club's. I've said it before. The Oystons don't need a parliament to show they mean the best for the club. There are plenty of things they can do to show they mean business. The fact they choose not to is down to one thing. Money. They don't want to invest.
Think about that. The club needs them to invest to survive now. And they won't. They don't want the club to survive. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can get behind the rest of us and try to organise a better future for the club. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 17:19 28 May 2015
Lala, I don't dispute the number. I just don't think you can say that that's all BST represent. I think most normal Blackpool supporters agree with their stance. Put it this way, outside this forum, I haven't spoken to anyone who doesn't back them. [Post edited 28 May 2015 17:19]
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 17:17 28 May 2015
Anyone who thinks this Parliament will accomplish anything is kidding themselves. Sure, there will be a meeting. The club will even generously act on a few of the suggestions. But it's all going to be stuff that is openly acknowledged as being a problem (as long as it doesn't cost much to sort out). So it will present the illusion of club working hand in hand with supporters.
And there is the problem. This club is going down the toilet. There are obvious things that the club know are wrong and they could be sorted right now. Why aren't they? So the club has some ground to give when the parliament meets. They probably already know what they will agree to. So it's been decided. Without need for a parliament meeting.
This all sounds like meetings gone by. People meet with Karl. Karl says how it's going to be. We all keep quiet with a breadcrumb that plans are in place and they'll start working on the training ground my 2050. The reason some people are getting angry, and maybe a little bit too aggressive is because all of this is obvious. Hell the fact they can sort things now but choose not to is making me angry as I type. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 17:11 28 May 2015
Lala, I don't think he sounds like he's dictating to all of us. But you're wrong if you think BST represent just 1500 fans. I've paid my BST sub. I'm happy with the way they are handling things. I have several friends who aren't paid up members of BST. They feel the same way too. I think if you did a completely open poll of all Blackpool fans, the majority would be behind BST. |
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Reply | Club Statement
at 22:26 27 May 2015
Anyway, like the parliament thing, this is just smoke and mirrors, designed to distract us and just emphasise the "We're not selling" mantra. It's like they think if they say it enough, we'll believe it. As such, it should be used to strengthen our resolve.
The Oystons, whether they like it or not, rely on a certain amount of goodwill from their customers to succeed in business. They can shout "We're not selling" as much as they want from the rooftops. If we just keep chipping away at their other businesses, boycott them, spread the word, picket and protest, it WILL hurt them financially.
We just have to keep doing it. We'll find their breaking point. |
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Reply | Club Statement
at 20:01 27 May 2015
So. Belokon is responsible for all that is wrong at the club. Glad we've sorted that one out. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 19:06 27 May 2015
This:
"And may I remind you all it is SEASON TICKET RENEWAL TIME. It comes around every year at the same time and every year we go round in these same f***ing circles."
Lets just, for once, not buy into the manure we've been fed for years. You can't take anything coming out of the club seriously, especially at this time of year. Riga Revolution, anyone?
Lets just go with the flow and keep the momentum up. Let's not allow ourselves to be duped into assisting a cost free (surprise) publicity stunt, and keep pushing to get them out. They have a breaking point. Let's find it. However long it takes. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 17:24 26 May 2015
BHOK - it's the dog analogy again. If the dog keeps getting kicked, doe it accept it because it feels powerless?
It's the long game. Do we really want to accept that all we will ever be is a second to third division club? Because that's all we'll ever be with the Oystons. You say the Oystons think "we'll only put more money in once it all blows over". When have they ever put money in? We owe our success to Belokon.
The club has a sale price, whether they admit it or not. They can claim all they want that they will never sell, but when their stewardship of the club alienates so many people that their other business interests are hit, they aren't stupid. They will sell. It's a war of attrition. It might take years to happen, but it's surely in the best long term interests of the club?
Kick the dog hard enough, and it's been kicked pretty hard, and it will bite back. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 13:22 26 May 2015
Speaking as a 2 year season ticket holder, I'm very much of the opinion that these were offered by the club having a clear idea of how the season was going to go right down to level of support (or lack of it) that Riga was going to get. (I want to make this clear that I'm stating this as opinion NOT fact, so nobody get excited). It's hard, having that opinion, not to feel resentment that these people own the club.
I sympathise. I really do. I'd love to see a season of fantastic free flowing football. With a Blackpool team enjoying the benefits of the Premier League money getting a great manager, filled with good players and making a strong attempt at going straight back up. I'd feel like I actually got some value from my season ticket. But in my heart of hearts I know this won't be the case.
Apart from the fact I don't believe the owners have the slightest intention of making that outlay, I don't think they could if they wanted to. I think the reputation of the club is in the gutter. Prospective managers can only see that previous managers haven't been supported. What about prospective players? They see 1 year contracts, pay as you play contracts. They see players sign then play a couple of times before getting written off because you're PAYP deals with low basics. They see the Orlandi situation. What players will come to a club that treats players like that? To get any good players to come here, we'd actually have to pay MORE than other clubs to attract them. And probably offer contract terms that were completely not in the interests of the club. Whilst we've a history of agreeing terms to the detriment of the club (to save £100 a week) I can't see us agreeing to sign anybody for over the odds.
And what about that other chestnut - loans? After what happened to the likes of Feruz Islam(?) I'm not even sure we'll be able to get decent loan players.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say (in my long winded way) is that I think we've actually reached a watershed. I think the reputation of the club under current ownership is so bad that we cannot possibly function as a football club with them. Even if you take them as wanting the best for the club (and have they ever done anything to convince you of this) I think their reputation is beyond repair. It will take a decade for football to forget. Maybe longer. Assuming they ever change their ways.
So, to the parliament. You can only assume, for whatever reason, that this is an attempt to pacify the fans. It can only be seen as a sign of an intent on the owners part to stick around. And for the reasons stated above, I just don't think that can possibly work. So is there any point entering dialogue with a view to accepting them staying around? I really don't think there is. We were having these conversations a decade ago. If we stop now, we'll be having the same conversations in another decade. Assuming after the 2 year rip off and another relegation there are any supporters left. The long game for the future of this club says we can't give up now.
For what it's worth, I don't think what the BST have suggested is unreasonable. But I don't think it will be considered acceptable, because the point of parliament isn't about the fans. But it should be. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 10:03 26 May 2015
TT, honestly, why bother talking to them? Some of the problems at the club are so well known and so blatant, do we honestly need dialogue to sort them out?
Real measures to fix the problems at the club could be put in place now, without the need for delay by waiting to set up a discussion forum. They know this. You know this. We all know this.
This is all about appeasing the fan base. Like everything at this club, it has to be the fans (or Valeri Belokon) who pay. Do we really want a 'parliament' to take place so that they can turn round and say "yes we acknowledge 12 month contracts are hampering negotiations" and make out that they are listening to us? Give them credit for doing the obvious?
This is simple. The club currently has no outlet for it's non investment agenda. Fans are rightfully angry, and they think they can be appeased and brought back into the fold with more talk. And perhaps they'll throw us a few crumbs of change to make it look like we're being listened to.
A well run club shouldn't rely on this sort of thing to get things right. They should have come out with an immediate statement apologising for the way things had gone wrong, acknowledging the faults and detailing what they were going to do about it. The fact we appear to need a fans parliament to make things happen really shows how much trouble we are in. Heaven help us. We really do need a change of ownership and fast. |
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Reply | BST Response to Fans Parliament Proposal
at 22:56 25 May 2015
Part of me says that the Trust should have had additional conditions, such as those suggested by Beds about dropping legal action etc.
But then the part of me that is pretty sure that the main purpose of the Parliament in the first place is not to actually engage, but to give the impression of engagement just knows that none of that will be acceptable to the club, because it defeats the purpose of the Parliament in the first place.
An interesting response, and it will be interesting to see how it is acknowledged. If at all. |
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Reply | Theories of what's going on?
at 12:02 25 May 2015
I think potential candidates were distancing themselves from the job pretty much as soon as it became available. It's seen as an impossible job because it is an impossible job. The tightest budget in the division. A policy of one year contracts which will make it impossible to attract talent. Training facilities that aren't acceptable in the Northern Premier League. A fan base that almost universally wants the ownership out.
The only experienced candidates we are likely to attract are either after a last pay day, or desperately need the money. I don't even think that Richie Kyle actually wants it because it's an impossible job. A guaranteed relegation for a years salary. He doesn't want his managerial career written off before it's begun. Whilst as a club we seem to run things on a day by day basis, managers (and players) typically look at the long game.
I can imagine a situation where Kyle is told to take the job or leave the club. And considering his record with the youth team, he could almost certainly get the same job at a bigger team and improve his salary. I can see the managerial situation going on and on. |
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Reply | How many seasons will it take us to get out of League One
at 01:09 25 May 2015
Some big clubs have come down to League One and stayed there for 3 years and longer. It really is down to ownership. The only reason we went up last time was with Belokon's involvement. If the Oystons remain as owners, I don't think we'll see Championship football again in my lifetime. Under new ownership, give it 3 years. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 17:40 24 May 2015
I'm sorry if I repeat myself in any way here.
12 people representing the supporters serves no purpose if the supporters themselves haven't chosen them, and the club has. Why does the club fear the supporters selecting their own panel of representatives? I think that's the key issue here. If that isn't addressed then the only purpose served by the panel is that the club gets to say that they are talking to the fans. Some fans maybe, but not THE fans.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the Oystons want to start allaying the fears of the fans and quelling the protests, they need to start putting their money where their mouths are. There are several ways that they could do this. That they choose not to, but want to 'talk to the fans (but only those fans they choose)' just suggests that it's all about the perception that they are talking to the fans.
What do they usually say? This is what we're doing. This is why we aren't spending money. We'll build a training ground. Eventually. Maybe. We've had years of talk. And it's cheap. Very cheap when the Oystons are involved. Always tomorrow. Never now. Tomorrow never comes.
I'm sorry but as far as I can see, anyone who applies to join this parliament may well mean well, but like the BSA before, they will only be used to create the perception of communication. But when the result of that 'communication' is only ever one way, the acceptance of 'The Oyston Way', then it's a waste of time.
I think as supporters, we have many questions to ask of ourselves around this. Do we want to enter a false dialogue with the club that will likely be the same as it ever was? Or do we want to bite the bullet. Accept we might have a struggle ahead. It might take months or it might take years. But one day we can be free. We can enjoy dreaming of supporting a football club that is allowed to enjoy the benefits of it's success, instead of broadening the investment portfolio of it's 'owners'. Who knows, maybe a club with owners that actually wanted to to invest in it? Wouldn't that be a kick? Wouldn't that be worth it? [Post edited 24 May 2015 17:41]
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 22:16 23 May 2015
I think Steve G asks some key questions - why not meet with the representatives of existing fan groups, and what is the qualification process?
The fact that they want to choose who to meet brings the whole idea of Parliament into disrepute. In fact, it is that very fact that makes Parliament a poor choice of name. The people get a choice (or sorts) about who gets selected for Parliament. I see no such choice with this one. Who is best qualified to decide who should represent the views of the fans? Certainly not the club, and certainly not any 'independent panel'. The fans should, and the fact they are not being given a chance to do so only makes me question the motive of the whole thing.
The danger of this whole idea, especially if the wrong sort of people are selected, is that it allows the club to claim they are listening to the fans, whilst enabling them to ignore the views of supporters groups. I would say this would be a nice idea at any other club, but I believe that at most other clubs, the owners would attempt to meet with supporters groups. This idea only serves to undermine them. |
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