| Question 10:47 - Apr 11 with 2911 views | SaintNick |
Given that Ralph has lead us in his 3 full seasons to 16th, 11th, 15th & this season somewhere similar, as well as an FA Cup semi and 1/4 final and that this is about where we sit in the Premier league pyramid, what do we honestly expect ?
So who could do better than Ralph given the situation we are in ? |  |
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| Question on 10:55 - Apr 11 with 1894 views | grumpy |
Rudi Garcia? |  | | |
| Question on 11:06 - Apr 11 with 1874 views | Saintsforeverj |
I agree Nick and can't see how another manager would do any better overall. We could try someone else but look, even Gerrard got thrashed at the weekend. Watford are going down with the respected and experienced Hodgson. Norwich will go down despite changing the manager. The problem Ralph has is that these embarrassing thrashings keep happening. It could have been 10 nil on Saturday. This doesn't change the fact that we can still easily finish mid table, which is acceptable, but it's the dreadful defeats giving people a reasonable reason to want him out.
The dilemma to consider is we might get worse, as in a manager that takes us down. We could easily appoint another Pellegrino or Hughes. Could we get better? Maybe, but it will still be the same top 6 and we will still struggle to make the top 10 regardless. I'm not sure we could better, we could certainly get worse, but another manager like Puel could cut out the thrashings with a few more nil nils but the same result in the league. [Post edited 11 Apr 2022 11:12]
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| Question on 11:15 - Apr 11 with 1854 views | SaintNick |
| Question on 11:06 - Apr 11 by Saintsforeverj |
I agree Nick and can't see how another manager would do any better overall. We could try someone else but look, even Gerrard got thrashed at the weekend. Watford are going down with the respected and experienced Hodgson. Norwich will go down despite changing the manager. The problem Ralph has is that these embarrassing thrashings keep happening. It could have been 10 nil on Saturday. This doesn't change the fact that we can still easily finish mid table, which is acceptable, but it's the dreadful defeats giving people a reasonable reason to want him out.
The dilemma to consider is we might get worse, as in a manager that takes us down. We could easily appoint another Pellegrino or Hughes. Could we get better? Maybe, but it will still be the same top 6 and we will still struggle to make the top 10 regardless. I'm not sure we could better, we could certainly get worse, but another manager like Puel could cut out the thrashings with a few more nil nils but the same result in the league. [Post edited 11 Apr 2022 11:12]
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Good point about Puel, he took us to 8th in the League and a cup final, yet the fans still wanted him out because it wasnt entertaining, the one thing you can say with Ralph is the games have plenty of goals | |
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| Question on 11:22 - Apr 11 with 1832 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Question on 11:15 - Apr 11 by SaintNick |
Good point about Puel, he took us to 8th in the League and a cup final, yet the fans still wanted him out because it wasnt entertaining, the one thing you can say with Ralph is the games have plenty of goals |
Yep, and here is the dilemma. I was one of those who wanted Puel out, I have to admit. This was because we had just had Koeman and Poch, and Puel's football was so boring and dull. It also explains why I am so reluctant want Ralph out, because things can be a lot worse. But in hindsight, a good few years later, these thrashings are a sign that Puel had reason to play so defensively. Do we want entertainment and open attacking football, which brings a few thrashings too, or do we want defensive bores which cuts out the thrashings? | |
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| Question on 11:29 - Apr 11 with 1823 views | SaintNick |
| Question on 11:22 - Apr 11 by Saintsforeverj |
Yep, and here is the dilemma. I was one of those who wanted Puel out, I have to admit. This was because we had just had Koeman and Poch, and Puel's football was so boring and dull. It also explains why I am so reluctant want Ralph out, because things can be a lot worse. But in hindsight, a good few years later, these thrashings are a sign that Puel had reason to play so defensively. Do we want entertainment and open attacking football, which brings a few thrashings too, or do we want defensive bores which cuts out the thrashings? |
You have hit the nail on the head, Puel's team was actually quite entertaining at times, people forget 3-0 at West Ham, 3-1 at Bournemouth, 4-0 at Sunderaln that season and only remember the 1-0 wins and bore draws.
I said at the time Puel lost Fonte to petulance and Van Dijk to injury in the January and had to revamp the way we played, protecting the two central defenders who had no pace. | |
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| Question on 11:32 - Apr 11 with 1816 views | dwayne_dibley |
is Branfoot still alive? |  |
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| Question on 11:41 - Apr 11 with 1800 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Question on 11:29 - Apr 11 by SaintNick |
You have hit the nail on the head, Puel's team was actually quite entertaining at times, people forget 3-0 at West Ham, 3-1 at Bournemouth, 4-0 at Sunderaln that season and only remember the 1-0 wins and bore draws.
I said at the time Puel lost Fonte to petulance and Van Dijk to injury in the January and had to revamp the way we played, protecting the two central defenders who had no pace. |
And had it not been for a terrible refereeing decision and VAR in place, Saints would probably have lifted the league Cup that year. The tactics that Puel employed in the semi finals to beat Liverpool were also spot on. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. [Post edited 11 Apr 2022 11:42]
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| Question on 12:28 - Apr 11 with 1748 views | SaintNick |
| Question on 11:41 - Apr 11 by Saintsforeverj |
And had it not been for a terrible refereeing decision and VAR in place, Saints would probably have lifted the league Cup that year. The tactics that Puel employed in the semi finals to beat Liverpool were also spot on. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. [Post edited 11 Apr 2022 11:42]
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if we had Virgil Van Dijk fit we would have won it | |
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| Question on 12:33 - Apr 11 with 1742 views | franniesTache |
My issue with Ralph is less about the league positions and more about the fact he refuses to, or cannot, fix our biggest problem.
Since he's joined we've conceded over 60 goals every season (and are on track to do the same this season).
We will never progress whilst we leak goals like that and the team are mentally weak and collapse far too easily, which sits squarely at the door of the manager.
As for replacement i think we lost our chance to be honest, we should've gone after Thomas Frank when Brentford failed to get promoted the season before they came up. |  | | |
| Question on 12:44 - Apr 11 with 1716 views | SaintNick |
| Question on 12:33 - Apr 11 by franniesTache |
My issue with Ralph is less about the league positions and more about the fact he refuses to, or cannot, fix our biggest problem.
Since he's joined we've conceded over 60 goals every season (and are on track to do the same this season).
We will never progress whilst we leak goals like that and the team are mentally weak and collapse far too easily, which sits squarely at the door of the manager.
As for replacement i think we lost our chance to be honest, we should've gone after Thomas Frank when Brentford failed to get promoted the season before they came up. |
Thomas Frank could be the likely target this time next year | |
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| Question on 12:49 - Apr 11 with 1701 views | Butty101 |
Par position is 12th, so far he has managed 1 season slightly above par and 2 below par. Chuck in a lot of spankings and learning from previous mistakes. I would say bye bye. |  |
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| Question on 12:49 - Apr 11 with 1701 views | kingolaf |
I like Forest’s manager. | | | |
| Question on 12:59 - Apr 11 with 1687 views | MytchettSaint |
Nick you wrote - They tore us apart in the first 8 minutes and God knows how we weren't 3 down in that opening spell, that should have been the signal for Saints to regroup
This is the thing that kills it with Ralph for me. As abject as the players were, we’d had enough warning that something in our set up was fundamentally wrong. Ralph did nothing until we were 2-0 and even then that appeared to just be to go and sit down. He finally seemed to make a change at 4-0…
There’s a lot of feeling that the team have stopped trying now and this season is going to mirror how last season ended. I appreciate we’re not going to get a coach that will get our group of players to the champions league but by god I’d like our coach to have a bit of the air about him that the players were fearful of turning in performances like we’ve seen recently.
Puel (who I thought should have been given until Christmas the following season) paid the price for our season petering out and the club getting jumpy about ticket sales for the following season. This is the second time this has happened under him.
As delighted as I was with how we played the start of the year, I’m sick of watching that sort of gutless performance from them season in season out. |  |
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| Question on 13:16 - Apr 11 with 1642 views | PatfromPoole |
| Question on 12:49 - Apr 11 by kingolaf |
I like Forest’s manager. |
Seconded.
Great track record wherever he has been. |  |
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| Question on 13:20 - Apr 11 with 1633 views | PatfromPoole |
I like Ralph, but these occasional heavy defeats are an increasingly big blot against his name.
I’m still also pissed off about the team selection for the Cup quarter-final.
I see little point in lauding him for progress in Cup competitions when we throw it away by leaving our top strikers on the bench when it really counts.
He just doesn’t strike me as having the aura of a winner.
That said, our performance at Tottenham away this season was as good as you will ever see. And it wasn’t all that long ago.
I’m a little torn, in truth. | |
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| Question on 13:36 - Apr 11 with 1614 views | Poirot |
Why isnt Ian Branfoot still the manager on that note. |  | | |
| Question on 13:54 - Apr 11 with 1584 views | MytchettSaint |
| Question on 13:36 - Apr 11 by Poirot |
Why isnt Ian Branfoot still the manager on that note. |
Because unlike Ralph, saints fans unanimously thought he was sh1t | |
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| Question on 14:03 - Apr 11 with 1571 views | PatfromPoole |
I am actually half-expecting the announcement of a new 4-year contract for Ralph, despite him saying he was buggering off in a couple of years.
I imagine Semmens would far rather keep him, as he buys into the club’s stated blueprint. Not every manager would. | |
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| Question on 14:12 - Apr 11 with 1541 views | dirk_doone |
| Question on 12:49 - Apr 11 by kingolaf |
I like Forest’s manager. |
They'll be in the Premier League next season. We should have bought their two best players - Joe Worrall and Brennan Johnson - but that ship has passed. |  |
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| Question on 14:19 - Apr 11 with 1519 views | SaintNick |
| Question on 13:16 - Apr 11 by PatfromPoole |
Seconded.
Great track record wherever he has been. |
With respect Steve Cooper of Forest has not got a great track record, his only experience in managing club sides has been two years at Swansea , he got them to the play off final in the first season and again in his second season but lost both times.
There was criticism of his style of play and Swansea's poor form towards the end of the season, as again they scraped into the play offs .
Nottingham Forest have been decidedly average for most of the season, but 5 straight wins has lifted them up the table from also rans a few weeks ago.
So has a manager with just 3 seasons experience in the Championship got what it takes ?
if we appointed him there would be uproar | |
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| Question on 14:50 - Apr 11 with 1474 views | PatfromPoole |
| Question on 14:19 - Apr 11 by SaintNick |
With respect Steve Cooper of Forest has not got a great track record, his only experience in managing club sides has been two years at Swansea , he got them to the play off final in the first season and again in his second season but lost both times.
There was criticism of his style of play and Swansea's poor form towards the end of the season, as again they scraped into the play offs .
Nottingham Forest have been decidedly average for most of the season, but 5 straight wins has lifted them up the table from also rans a few weeks ago.
So has a manager with just 3 seasons experience in the Championship got what it takes ?
if we appointed him there would be uproar |
Cooper spent next to nothing at Swansea, and had his best players sold to cut costs.
I note that you are ignoring his exploits in the Youth World Cup. I know that you’re not keen on international football, but it seems pretty unfair to ignore his achievements there. I’m sure it will not have gone unnoticed at Saints. | |
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| Question on 14:54 - Apr 11 with 1465 views | PatfromPoole |
| Question on 14:19 - Apr 11 by SaintNick |
With respect Steve Cooper of Forest has not got a great track record, his only experience in managing club sides has been two years at Swansea , he got them to the play off final in the first season and again in his second season but lost both times.
There was criticism of his style of play and Swansea's poor form towards the end of the season, as again they scraped into the play offs .
Nottingham Forest have been decidedly average for most of the season, but 5 straight wins has lifted them up the table from also rans a few weeks ago.
So has a manager with just 3 seasons experience in the Championship got what it takes ?
if we appointed him there would be uproar |
Also, as you seem to laud managers for their record in Cup competitions, I think he should be given a lot of credit for beating Leicester and Arsenal in this year’s FA Cup, and only just losing to Liverpool.
They came a lot closer to a result against Liverpool than we did against City.
I don’t think there would be uproar if we appointed him actually. | |
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| Question on 16:21 - Apr 11 with 1392 views | saints__fan__73 |
| Question on 11:29 - Apr 11 by SaintNick |
You have hit the nail on the head, Puel's team was actually quite entertaining at times, people forget 3-0 at West Ham, 3-1 at Bournemouth, 4-0 at Sunderaln that season and only remember the 1-0 wins and bore draws.
I said at the time Puel lost Fonte to petulance and Van Dijk to injury in the January and had to revamp the way we played, protecting the two central defenders who had no pace. |
It's amazing how Puel's 46 point season is still being lauded by some to this day. |  |
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| Question on 16:26 - Apr 11 with 1386 views | saints__fan__73 |
Every season a club comes up like Villa or Newcastle and end up with owners investing in the team which puts them on a different level to us and leaves the pool of clubs we are competing with smaller and smaller.
The Championship (and L1) is full of clubs who were in the PL at one time but were trying to be self-funding. We are the exception that keeps staying up year after year.
The only clubs we are competing with on an equal footing are Brighton, Palace and Burnley + the 3 promoted clubs.
It's impressive that we have stayed in the PL as long as we have. | |
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| Question on 17:08 - Apr 11 with 1335 views | Centurion |
| Question on 16:26 - Apr 11 by saints__fan__73 |
Every season a club comes up like Villa or Newcastle and end up with owners investing in the team which puts them on a different level to us and leaves the pool of clubs we are competing with smaller and smaller.
The Championship (and L1) is full of clubs who were in the PL at one time but were trying to be self-funding. We are the exception that keeps staying up year after year.
The only clubs we are competing with on an equal footing are Brighton, Palace and Burnley + the 3 promoted clubs.
It's impressive that we have stayed in the PL as long as we have. |
You are right. Over the years our record of being a member of the Premier league and indeed the top flight has been very good compared to our resources.
The thing is, that it seems that is all there is to look forward to. So much so, that I sometimes wonder whether 17th, 16th, 15th is now considered a successful season by the board. Sounds like limited ambition, but maybe it is realistic. | | | |
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