| Elon Musk 08:27 - Jan 6 with 2995 views | Heisenberg |
I see Musk sees Farage as not up to the job but reckons a certain Rupert Lowe is the man to take the country forward. We live in very strange times. |  |
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| Elon Musk on 13:56 - Jan 7 with 892 views | Jellybaby |
| Elon Musk on 12:11 - Jan 7 by DorsetIan |
Why call that a 'Zionist' war.
Why not an Israeli war? |
Because it goes way beyond the geographical country of Israel.
When Britain decreed in the Balfour declaration to take land from one nation and give it to another, it had self interest at heart. Israeli expansionism benefits the West and Globalists generally as they seek a one world government, an area rich in resources - they will not want to leave in the hands of outlier nations like Iran.
The horrendous muslim rape gang situation has been going on for decades, but it only seems expedient now politically to mention it, is this so atrocities like Gaza and Syria and a likely war with Iran can have a veneer of justification? |  |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Elon Musk on 14:51 - Jan 7 with 816 views | DorsetIan |
You're talking about Isreal - the creation and expansion of.
When anyone still talks about Zionism - the aims of which were effectively achieved with the creation of Israel - you are getting too close to talking about Jews for my liking. | |
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| Elon Musk on 15:00 - Jan 7 with 790 views | PaleRider |
| Elon Musk on 14:51 - Jan 7 by DorsetIan |
You're talking about Isreal - the creation and expansion of.
When anyone still talks about Zionism - the aims of which were effectively achieved with the creation of Israel - you are getting too close to talking about Jews for my liking. |
Ian - maybe you need to research the difference between Zionism, Judaism and the state of Israel. In time order, Judaism pre-dates Zionism (which has its origins in the mid-19th century), which predates the State of Israel (founded in 1948).
They are clearly different but this does highlight the difficulties that exist around the way that the state of Israel was created and expanded. It is a minefield and it i too easy to conflate these three elements. | | | |
| Elon Musk on 15:11 - Jan 7 with 770 views | saint901 |
Agreed that the Balfour declaration has created more problems than it solved.
Did not help of course that as soon as it was announced, all parties revolted and in the war that followed thousands died and millions were displaced.
The noise around "rape gangs" is political opportunism at its very worst.
A seven year enquiry into the gangs and their thousands of victims reported its recommendations in 2022. The Gov't of the day (Tory) ignored ALL the recommendations and did nothing.
Now Jenrick (failed leadership candidate and wettest of wet Tories) claims he "did something" in 2022 but that Google can't find it, but that Labour need to do something or they fail at Gov't.
And politicians wonder why nobody trusts them? | | | |
| Elon Musk on 15:15 - Jan 7 with 765 views | saint901 |
| Elon Musk on 14:51 - Jan 7 by DorsetIan |
You're talking about Isreal - the creation and expansion of.
When anyone still talks about Zionism - the aims of which were effectively achieved with the creation of Israel - you are getting too close to talking about Jews for my liking. |
There is a difference between Judisim and Zionists.
In my head, those who wish to follow the Jewish religion (fully or partially) are exercising a right to practice their beliefs and whether we agree with them or not, this is to be respected.
Zionists are a far more evangelical outfit who think that everybody should be following that religion and if they wish not to do so, then they given up all rights over the land they have lived on, often for generations. In my head that is not something I respect. | | | |
| Elon Musk on 15:46 - Jan 7 with 747 views | kernow |
Is Elon Musk a Zionist? | | | |
| Elon Musk on 15:48 - Jan 7 with 744 views | DorsetIan |
| Elon Musk on 15:00 - Jan 7 by PaleRider |
Ian - maybe you need to research the difference between Zionism, Judaism and the state of Israel. In time order, Judaism pre-dates Zionism (which has its origins in the mid-19th century), which predates the State of Israel (founded in 1948).
They are clearly different but this does highlight the difficulties that exist around the way that the state of Israel was created and expanded. It is a minefield and it i too easy to conflate these three elements. |
Please read what I said. I am aware of the differences. "...you are getting too close to talking about Jews for my liking."
'too close'.
You could research the history of how the use of 'zionist' as a pejorative term has been used by the far right as shorthand for 'Jewish'. Just like how David Icke talks about lizards. (Is he still doing that, Jelly?)
What is clear is that this is a minefield. Hence my preference for not using the word 'zionist' when we are really talking about Israel.
This Israeli government are behaving abominably. As far as I am concerned they are up there will some of the worst states ever seen in terms of what they are doing and their disregard for Palestinian life. | |
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| Elon Musk on 16:01 - Jan 7 with 721 views | mushinexile |
Too close? Why are Jews above criticism? Any race that has failed to live in peace with its neighbours for 4,000 years and, having been saved from genocide by the allied efforts now practices genocide and unlimited cruelty on its neighbours is not deserving of any respect from me. I am not anti semitic - Palestinians are semites, too. | | | |
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| Elon Musk on 16:18 - Jan 7 with 700 views | DorsetIan |
| Elon Musk on 16:01 - Jan 7 by mushinexile |
Too close? Why are Jews above criticism? Any race that has failed to live in peace with its neighbours for 4,000 years and, having been saved from genocide by the allied efforts now practices genocide and unlimited cruelty on its neighbours is not deserving of any respect from me. I am not anti semitic - Palestinians are semites, too. |
Sounds like you're quite anti-Jewish though. (Which is what 'anti-semitic' usually means.) | |
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| Elon Musk on 16:19 - Jan 7 with 697 views | Joiedevivre |
| Elon Musk on 15:48 - Jan 7 by DorsetIan |
Please read what I said. I am aware of the differences. "...you are getting too close to talking about Jews for my liking."
'too close'.
You could research the history of how the use of 'zionist' as a pejorative term has been used by the far right as shorthand for 'Jewish'. Just like how David Icke talks about lizards. (Is he still doing that, Jelly?)
What is clear is that this is a minefield. Hence my preference for not using the word 'zionist' when we are really talking about Israel.
This Israeli government are behaving abominably. As far as I am concerned they are up there will some of the worst states ever seen in terms of what they are doing and their disregard for Palestinian life. |
You mention the term Zionism being overrun. But there are many such instances of words or symbols being hijacked and misrepresented by dangerous groups - Nazis with the the Swastika - a Hindu symbol of well-being and prosperity. In Britain, the National Front's use of the Union Flag does not mean it isn't still Britain's flag.
But it must also be remembered that Zionism in itself (and as far as my understanding shows me) is a nationalist movement. Its initial use of both terrorism - through militias such as the Lehi (killing British peoples, even in Britain) - and neo-colonialism: an inward drive for a minority to become a majority in another peoples land, through large scale immigration, led to the displacement of millions. Whether it is Jews or anyone, it must be called out.
One cannot simply cry antisemitism whilst 700,000 are displaced to create a state in anothers land. |  | | |
| Elon Musk on 16:20 - Jan 7 with 695 views | PaleRider |
| Elon Musk on 15:48 - Jan 7 by DorsetIan |
Please read what I said. I am aware of the differences. "...you are getting too close to talking about Jews for my liking."
'too close'.
You could research the history of how the use of 'zionist' as a pejorative term has been used by the far right as shorthand for 'Jewish'. Just like how David Icke talks about lizards. (Is he still doing that, Jelly?)
What is clear is that this is a minefield. Hence my preference for not using the word 'zionist' when we are really talking about Israel.
This Israeli government are behaving abominably. As far as I am concerned they are up there will some of the worst states ever seen in terms of what they are doing and their disregard for Palestinian life. |
I did read what you said - however, what you said clearly shows a lack of understanding! But hey - what's new! | | | |
| Elon Musk on 16:28 - Jan 7 with 677 views | 1885_SFC |
| Elon Musk on 16:01 - Jan 7 by mushinexile |
Too close? Why are Jews above criticism? Any race that has failed to live in peace with its neighbours for 4,000 years and, having been saved from genocide by the allied efforts now practices genocide and unlimited cruelty on its neighbours is not deserving of any respect from me. I am not anti semitic - Palestinians are semites, too. |
" Any race that has failed to live in peace with its neighbours for 4,000 years..."
There is a popular saying in the middle East, “After Saturday comes Sunday”. If you are interested in what that means, look it up below but suffice it to say, if you believe that peace will flow like a river in the middle East and worldwide if Israel were to be wiped off the map today, you are heavily mistaken because “After Saturday comes Sunday”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Saturday_comes_Sunday |  |
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| Elon Musk on 16:33 - Jan 7 with 664 views | DorsetIan |
| Elon Musk on 16:19 - Jan 7 by Joiedevivre |
You mention the term Zionism being overrun. But there are many such instances of words or symbols being hijacked and misrepresented by dangerous groups - Nazis with the the Swastika - a Hindu symbol of well-being and prosperity. In Britain, the National Front's use of the Union Flag does not mean it isn't still Britain's flag.
But it must also be remembered that Zionism in itself (and as far as my understanding shows me) is a nationalist movement. Its initial use of both terrorism - through militias such as the Lehi (killing British peoples, even in Britain) - and neo-colonialism: an inward drive for a minority to become a majority in another peoples land, through large scale immigration, led to the displacement of millions. Whether it is Jews or anyone, it must be called out.
One cannot simply cry antisemitism whilst 700,000 are displaced to create a state in anothers land. |
Zionism was a movement for state for Jewish people, and that state was created after WW2. I'm aware of the history.
Rightly or wrongly, it was a done deal long before most of us on here were even born.
I would say that the reasonable view now is that Israel has a right to exist but that it should not be expanding (more that it has already done so) and it should be recognising the rights of its Palestinian neighbour and citizens. | |
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| Elon Musk on 16:39 - Jan 7 with 658 views | mushinexile |
Not what I said at all. Sunday will never come because there will never be peace. As for being anti Jewish, my family fought to save them from extermination and I am proud of that but to see them exterminating their indigenous neighbours fills me with contempt for them more than most because, they of all races should know better. | | | |
| Elon Musk on 16:57 - Jan 7 with 648 views | DorsetIan |
| Elon Musk on 16:39 - Jan 7 by mushinexile |
Not what I said at all. Sunday will never come because there will never be peace. As for being anti Jewish, my family fought to save them from extermination and I am proud of that but to see them exterminating their indigenous neighbours fills me with contempt for them more than most because, they of all races should know better. |
You did also seem to be critical of them for failing to live in peace with their neighbours for 4000 years.
FWIW, it also leaves me cold that the Israeli state is behaving so barbarically. You are right, we would hope that Isreal would do better.
My take is that it's this particular bunch of psychopaths who are responsible. Not Jews, not zionists, not Israel per se. But it is very difficult to maintain these distinction when the support for Isreal from many Jewish people seems without limit and when any criticism of what Isreal is doing is considered to be anti-semitic. | |
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| Elon Musk on 17:30 - Jan 7 with 613 views | saint901 |
I've always struggled with groups of people (nations, tribes, etc) who consider it right to kill others for the sake of a bunch of ideas about a supreme being and/or messengers of said being.
If there is such a being then presumably he/she/it would hold all its creations in equal regard and not wish for one group to kill another?
If there is no such being, then the philosophies and concepts we call religion are all nonsense.
To kill people in pursuit of a set of ideas that will never be proven or otherwise speaks more to the intolerance of people who cannot abide having their egos bruised when somebody has the temerity to think other than as they do.
Unfortunately I think that there is a part of man's emotional and mental make up that considers killing - from single murders to genocide - acceptable and that the religious or national or (heaven help us) "patriotic" reasoning given before is just them trying to justify their actions.
It is this flaw that convinces me that there is no supreme being because why would he/she/it have made such an obvious mistake?
And please don't lecture me about the ways of said being needing to be mysterious.
Priests, rabis, vicars, all of them cannot know the mind of a supreme being and cannot interpret them other than in their own interests.
The Bible and most other religious books are not the "word of whomever" but political texts designed to create or hold on to temporal power.
Killing for the sake of an idea is insanity. | | | |
| Elon Musk on 06:57 - Jan 8 with 441 views | Jellybaby |
| Elon Musk on 17:30 - Jan 7 by saint901 |
I've always struggled with groups of people (nations, tribes, etc) who consider it right to kill others for the sake of a bunch of ideas about a supreme being and/or messengers of said being.
If there is such a being then presumably he/she/it would hold all its creations in equal regard and not wish for one group to kill another?
If there is no such being, then the philosophies and concepts we call religion are all nonsense.
To kill people in pursuit of a set of ideas that will never be proven or otherwise speaks more to the intolerance of people who cannot abide having their egos bruised when somebody has the temerity to think other than as they do.
Unfortunately I think that there is a part of man's emotional and mental make up that considers killing - from single murders to genocide - acceptable and that the religious or national or (heaven help us) "patriotic" reasoning given before is just them trying to justify their actions.
It is this flaw that convinces me that there is no supreme being because why would he/she/it have made such an obvious mistake?
And please don't lecture me about the ways of said being needing to be mysterious.
Priests, rabis, vicars, all of them cannot know the mind of a supreme being and cannot interpret them other than in their own interests.
The Bible and most other religious books are not the "word of whomever" but political texts designed to create or hold on to temporal power.
Killing for the sake of an idea is insanity. |
You've drawn me out 901 with your "its all the God botherers' fault - if only everyone was a rational atheist like me, we would live in a perfect world" post.
On the broader issue - If there is evil in the world and we know there is, then where does that come from and how and why do we inherently know the difference between good and evil? if there is a God and the overwhelming evidence suggests there is, then would He give us free will? Yes, I think He would, otherwise we are merely pre-programmed automatons. I don't see that as an "obvious mistake".
Have you read the Bible 901? As the words of Jesus here and elsewhere appear to completely contradict your assertion that the Bible is a political book all about temporal power;
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Zionism has religious roots, both Jewish and Christian to be sure and the views of Talmudic Jews are extremely concerning, but predominantly Zionism is a political and secular global operation. Netanyahu, the Globalist puppet, who many consider to be a psychopath is a secular Jew not a religious one.
Blaming religion for wars rarely stacks up. Keep looking for the real culprits 901. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Elon Musk on 09:29 - Jan 8 with 382 views | City_boy |
| Elon Musk on 06:57 - Jan 8 by Jellybaby |
You've drawn me out 901 with your "its all the God botherers' fault - if only everyone was a rational atheist like me, we would live in a perfect world" post.
On the broader issue - If there is evil in the world and we know there is, then where does that come from and how and why do we inherently know the difference between good and evil? if there is a God and the overwhelming evidence suggests there is, then would He give us free will? Yes, I think He would, otherwise we are merely pre-programmed automatons. I don't see that as an "obvious mistake".
Have you read the Bible 901? As the words of Jesus here and elsewhere appear to completely contradict your assertion that the Bible is a political book all about temporal power;
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Zionism has religious roots, both Jewish and Christian to be sure and the views of Talmudic Jews are extremely concerning, but predominantly Zionism is a political and secular global operation. Netanyahu, the Globalist puppet, who many consider to be a psychopath is a secular Jew not a religious one.
Blaming religion for wars rarely stacks up. Keep looking for the real culprits 901. |
Reference your comment that there is overwhelming evidence that there is a God. I am interested to learn what this overwhelming evidence is ? [Post edited 8 Jan 9:33]
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| Elon Musk on 10:30 - Jan 8 with 329 views | dirk_doone |
Elon Musk has British ancestry and it seems that while Trump has his eyes set on Greenland, Panama and Mexico (of which he said in his speech, "It's ours" ) for his colonial expansion, Musk is considering this country, and at the very least he wants to be the kingmaker here.
We await the meeting of Trump and Putin's representatives in Moscow, when they decide how they will carve up the world between them, a bit like the German-Soviet Axis Talks in Berlin in 1940. Of course, they will fall out eventually and then, as Trump would say, "All hell will break loose" aka World War 3. [Post edited 8 Jan 10:38]
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| Elon Musk on 10:39 - Jan 8 with 315 views | Jellybaby |
| Elon Musk on 09:29 - Jan 8 by City_boy |
Reference your comment that there is overwhelming evidence that there is a God. I am interested to learn what this overwhelming evidence is ? [Post edited 8 Jan 9:33]
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For starters;
1. Creation through intelligent design is obvious. The twin theories of Macro Evolution (invented 1850s) and the Big bang (invented 1931) are laughable and the order from chaos theory has no standing scientifically. It's a busted flush and more dangerously supports eugenics and transhumanism.
2. Natural law. The universal moral code that is written on our hearts.
3. History shows all civilisations worshipped something above themselves. | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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| Elon Musk on 11:04 - Jan 8 with 286 views | DorsetIan |
| Elon Musk on 10:39 - Jan 8 by Jellybaby |
For starters;
1. Creation through intelligent design is obvious. The twin theories of Macro Evolution (invented 1850s) and the Big bang (invented 1931) are laughable and the order from chaos theory has no standing scientifically. It's a busted flush and more dangerously supports eugenics and transhumanism.
2. Natural law. The universal moral code that is written on our hearts.
3. History shows all civilisations worshipped something above themselves. |
Your first para is doing a lot of heavy lifting! | |
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| Elon Musk on 11:24 - Jan 8 with 249 views | PaleRider |
| Elon Musk on 10:39 - Jan 8 by Jellybaby |
For starters;
1. Creation through intelligent design is obvious. The twin theories of Macro Evolution (invented 1850s) and the Big bang (invented 1931) are laughable and the order from chaos theory has no standing scientifically. It's a busted flush and more dangerously supports eugenics and transhumanism.
2. Natural law. The universal moral code that is written on our hearts.
3. History shows all civilisations worshipped something above themselves. |
Jelly - non of this is evidence of a deity.
Intelligent design and religion are not synonymous.
Intelligent design is, in my view, more likely than simply random chance (although if you believe in the concept of an infinite number of multiverses then this random chance is theoretically possible but highly improbable), which in turn is more likely than the likelihood that any one sect of any one religion (eh Catholicism or Sunni Islam) has the "right" answer.
Religions are clearly humanity's (flawed) interpretation of the possible concept of intelligent design and are therefore mankind's constructs. As such, the application of religious dogma by people is, I would argue, an active ingredient in the perpetration of acts of aggression, such as war.
So, It think that both you and Saint901 have some valid points - but neither are 100% right! | | | |
| Elon Musk on 13:46 - Jan 8 with 173 views | saint901 |
I'm afraid that I cannot contribute to this thread further. Or indeed any thread in which Mr Jellybaby has seen fit to bless with his wisdom.
Before Christmas I asked Mr Jellybaby whether he thought that the Manchester bombing had taken place in which a number of people were killed and injured.
The context was a court case against a self declared "journalist" who had written a book which claimed it was all a hoax. The Court decided that said "journalist" was guilty of poor research, biased evidence gathering, stalking and various other issues.
Mr Jellybaby claimed that
a. he could not say whether an event of mass killing had taken place because "he was not there", and
b. the work of journalist was - in his view - at least as valid as the TV and MSM being full of pictures of dead and maimed people.
I interpreted that as a denial of the bombing and its motives and implications and for me points to his/her/their ability to cherry pick information and facts to suit a chosen narrative in defiance of the pictures we saw on TV and the testimony of the hundreds of emergency workers who attended.
You cannot reason with anybody who has that mindset and therefore I will not.
A free pass, Mr Jellybaby. If you wish me to stop contributing to any thread, just post some of your usual nonsense. | | | |
| Elon Musk on 14:44 - Jan 8 with 149 views | City_boy |
| Elon Musk on 10:39 - Jan 8 by Jellybaby |
For starters;
1. Creation through intelligent design is obvious. The twin theories of Macro Evolution (invented 1850s) and the Big bang (invented 1931) are laughable and the order from chaos theory has no standing scientifically. It's a busted flush and more dangerously supports eugenics and transhumanism.
2. Natural law. The universal moral code that is written on our hearts.
3. History shows all civilisations worshipped something above themselves. |
Is that it ? I was expecting something a bit more 'over whelming' ?
Enjoy your day and try and get out a bit more. [Post edited 8 Jan 14:46]
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| Elon Musk on 14:53 - Jan 8 with 139 views | Jellybaby |
| Elon Musk on 13:46 - Jan 8 by saint901 |
I'm afraid that I cannot contribute to this thread further. Or indeed any thread in which Mr Jellybaby has seen fit to bless with his wisdom.
Before Christmas I asked Mr Jellybaby whether he thought that the Manchester bombing had taken place in which a number of people were killed and injured.
The context was a court case against a self declared "journalist" who had written a book which claimed it was all a hoax. The Court decided that said "journalist" was guilty of poor research, biased evidence gathering, stalking and various other issues.
Mr Jellybaby claimed that
a. he could not say whether an event of mass killing had taken place because "he was not there", and
b. the work of journalist was - in his view - at least as valid as the TV and MSM being full of pictures of dead and maimed people.
I interpreted that as a denial of the bombing and its motives and implications and for me points to his/her/their ability to cherry pick information and facts to suit a chosen narrative in defiance of the pictures we saw on TV and the testimony of the hundreds of emergency workers who attended.
You cannot reason with anybody who has that mindset and therefore I will not.
A free pass, Mr Jellybaby. If you wish me to stop contributing to any thread, just post some of your usual nonsense. |
Very petty 901.
Looking back on this thread, I see you joined in after I had posted. It's almost like you manufactured this situation to have another pop at me or would that be a conspiracy? | |
| I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it. |
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