| Four days off 07:06 - Oct 12 with 5409 views | PatfromPoole |
A work colleague of mine was on a flight on Thursday night to Newcastle from Southampton.
Runs into Adam Armstrong, who is with wife and kids.
He said Armstrong came across as very passionate about Saints, and gutted about our current predicament.
The interesting thing was that he was flying back up north as Martin has given all the players not involved in internationals 4 days off.
I wonder if Steve Cooper has been quite so generous.
To my mind, you give players a period of time off as a reward when they have achieved something. You shouldn’t reward failure.
But then I’m not in carnal relations with Lucy Pinder….. |  |
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| Four days off on 07:43 - Oct 12 with 4413 views | saintwizzler |
Would Russell Martin be that upset if he got the sack?
He has a Championship promotion on his CV and a new contract that would be paid up until he wants another job.
Another Championship club awaits him when he’s ready. |  |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Four days off on 08:07 - Oct 12 with 4371 views | PatfromPoole |
| Four days off on 07:43 - Oct 12 by saintwizzler |
Would Russell Martin be that upset if he got the sack?
He has a Championship promotion on his CV and a new contract that would be paid up until he wants another job.
Another Championship club awaits him when he’s ready. |
He is in a bit of a no-lose position.
Regardless of how big a blow to the pretty big ego his first sacking would be. | |
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| Four days off on 08:20 - Oct 12 with 4345 views | TripleNiemi |
| Four days off on 08:07 - Oct 12 by PatfromPoole |
He is in a bit of a no-lose position.
Regardless of how big a blow to the pretty big ego his first sacking would be. |
Pains me to say this, but there does seem to be fair few fans in favour of Rylan staying on even if / when we are relegated. The love in is real…… |  |
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| Four days off on 08:35 - Oct 12 with 4313 views | PatfromPoole |
| Four days off on 08:20 - Oct 12 by TripleNiemi |
Pains me to say this, but there does seem to be fair few fans in favour of Rylan staying on even if / when we are relegated. The love in is real…… |
It’s a cult thing.
Or something similar. | |
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| Four days off on 08:48 - Oct 12 with 4298 views | saintmark1976 |
Pat, Adam Armstrongs is without doubt a quality striker at Championship level.
Unfortunately for us his abilities don’t extend to Premiership level. No amount of training during the four days would bridge that gap.
Regretfully, the same lack of Premiership ability applies to the vast majority of our current squad.
Personally I’m agnostic as to whether Russell Martin stays or goes simply because I just can’t see any other manager turning our current situation around.
In a nutshell our players just aren’t good enough for the club to survive in The Premiership this season. |  |
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| Four days off on 09:04 - Oct 12 with 4270 views | PatfromPoole |
| Four days off on 08:48 - Oct 12 by saintmark1976 |
Pat, Adam Armstrongs is without doubt a quality striker at Championship level.
Unfortunately for us his abilities don’t extend to Premiership level. No amount of training during the four days would bridge that gap.
Regretfully, the same lack of Premiership ability applies to the vast majority of our current squad.
Personally I’m agnostic as to whether Russell Martin stays or goes simply because I just can’t see any other manager turning our current situation around.
In a nutshell our players just aren’t good enough for the club to survive in The Premiership this season. |
Well…..
If Leicester score a late equaliser from a set-piece that we didn’t properly rehearse defending against (as with Ipswich) I would suggest we could have spent this weekend on making sure we get it right.
Regardless of the gap in quality, 90% of this game is still about basics, concentration and not switching off.
You can over-achieve with the right application and mindset.
We have had this in the past with other managers. | |
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| Four days off on 09:31 - Oct 12 with 4237 views | saintwizzler |
| Four days off on 08:48 - Oct 12 by saintmark1976 |
Pat, Adam Armstrongs is without doubt a quality striker at Championship level.
Unfortunately for us his abilities don’t extend to Premiership level. No amount of training during the four days would bridge that gap.
Regretfully, the same lack of Premiership ability applies to the vast majority of our current squad.
Personally I’m agnostic as to whether Russell Martin stays or goes simply because I just can’t see any other manager turning our current situation around.
In a nutshell our players just aren’t good enough for the club to survive in The Premiership this season. |
‘In a nutshell our players just aren’t good enough for the club to survive in The Premiership this season.’
Got it in one. | |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Four days off on 09:35 - Oct 12 with 4229 views | PatfromPoole |
| Four days off on 09:31 - Oct 12 by saintwizzler |
‘In a nutshell our players just aren’t good enough for the club to survive in The Premiership this season.’
Got it in one. |
We aren’t in The Premiership, bbz. | |
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| Four days off on 10:39 - Oct 12 with 4152 views | kingolaf |
Remember when Hoddle gave his players a week off and negotiated his move to Spurs.
Hopefully, Martin is negotiating his sacking settlement. | | | |
| Four days off on 10:58 - Oct 12 with 4132 views | PatfromPoole |
| Four days off on 10:39 - Oct 12 by kingolaf |
Remember when Hoddle gave his players a week off and negotiated his move to Spurs.
Hopefully, Martin is negotiating his sacking settlement. |
I’d forgotten about that.
Lowe never took well to being out-manoeuvred…. | |
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| Four days off on 11:39 - Oct 12 with 4069 views | saintwizzler |
| Four days off on 09:35 - Oct 12 by PatfromPoole |
We aren’t in The Premiership, bbz. |
Cock Sucker | |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Four days off on 11:49 - Oct 12 with 4046 views | dirk_doone |
Lazy manager = more days off and less training
Nathan Jones and Russell Martin have both given extra days off to players (and themselves). Of course, it makes the players happy. Pochettino was the exact opposite. The first thing he did when he arrived was to double the training sessions, which also meant longer hours for himself. Relative to the other teams in the Premier League, that was probably the fittest our players have ever been. The players' current levels of fitness don't appear to be good enough to maintain a high level of performance for 90 minutes. As for match preparation, that seems to consist of little more than passing practice.
Sometimes, if you're a lazy manager, the best thing to do is just tell the players to go out there and win, which is what Redknapp and Allardyce did. Without the tactical interference of a manager, the players often perform better.
Working on set pieces seems to pay dividends though, as we've seen from many of the goals scored by other teams this season. But, a lazy manager can just let a coach deal with them. [Post edited 12 Oct 12:43]
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| Four days off on 13:24 - Oct 12 with 3872 views | 1885_SFC |
| Four days off on 11:49 - Oct 12 by dirk_doone |
Lazy manager = more days off and less training
Nathan Jones and Russell Martin have both given extra days off to players (and themselves). Of course, it makes the players happy. Pochettino was the exact opposite. The first thing he did when he arrived was to double the training sessions, which also meant longer hours for himself. Relative to the other teams in the Premier League, that was probably the fittest our players have ever been. The players' current levels of fitness don't appear to be good enough to maintain a high level of performance for 90 minutes. As for match preparation, that seems to consist of little more than passing practice.
Sometimes, if you're a lazy manager, the best thing to do is just tell the players to go out there and win, which is what Redknapp and Allardyce did. Without the tactical interference of a manager, the players often perform better.
Working on set pieces seems to pay dividends though, as we've seen from many of the goals scored by other teams this season. But, a lazy manager can just let a coach deal with them. [Post edited 12 Oct 12:43]
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Yes, but you're not dating Lucy Pinder dirk.
If I was, I'd be giving the whole squad time off from right now and see them back on the training ground next Friday morning! |  |
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| Four days off on 13:25 - Oct 12 with 3870 views | Southamptonfan |
Not sure what I think about this sort of thing nowadays. In days gone by, extra training and being made to work as a punishment for a bad performance was the norm. But times have changed. Players are so wealthy and powerful that they can cause a lot of damage if the manager p!sses them off. They don't have to fall into line, especially if they're good. The players will probably be kissing RM's feet because he has given them the weekend off. That's how things are nowadays.
As for RM, I am one of those who is reluctant to call for his sacking. Not because I love the guy, just because I agree with ‘In a nutshell our players just aren’t good enough for the club to survive in The Premiership this season.’ Not only that, look at who Saints would replace him with.
https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/west-brom-southampton-news-breaks-amid-carlos-
This is a manager that lost to RM 3 nil in the playoffs and has never managed in the PL before, let alone an inexperienced manager being thrown into a relegation battle (again!!!). I will keep saying it, as people seem to have short memories. Sacked Ralph, we got Jones. Sacked Jones we got Selles. Ofcoures I would be delighted with a decent appointment and new direction with a Potter or Moyes. But I can't see it happening. These managers have too much clout, too many opinions for the owners and board at our club. They like to do things their way. Plus, ex Chelsea and West Ham managers want the same salary, if not more that they had at their previous clubs. If we end up getting some potential from the lower leagues, I would rather stick with RM. That's just my opinion. [Post edited 12 Oct 13:33]
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| Four days off on 13:36 - Oct 12 with 3794 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Four days off on 10:39 - Oct 12 by kingolaf |
Remember when Hoddle gave his players a week off and negotiated his move to Spurs.
Hopefully, Martin is negotiating his sacking settlement. |
No doubt Eileen Drewery told Hoddle it was time to go, maybe she could have a little chat with RM |  | | |
| Four days off on 14:21 - Oct 12 with 3677 views | PatfromPoole |
| Four days off on 13:25 - Oct 12 by Southamptonfan |
Not sure what I think about this sort of thing nowadays. In days gone by, extra training and being made to work as a punishment for a bad performance was the norm. But times have changed. Players are so wealthy and powerful that they can cause a lot of damage if the manager p!sses them off. They don't have to fall into line, especially if they're good. The players will probably be kissing RM's feet because he has given them the weekend off. That's how things are nowadays.
As for RM, I am one of those who is reluctant to call for his sacking. Not because I love the guy, just because I agree with ‘In a nutshell our players just aren’t good enough for the club to survive in The Premiership this season.’ Not only that, look at who Saints would replace him with.
https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/west-brom-southampton-news-breaks-amid-carlos-
This is a manager that lost to RM 3 nil in the playoffs and has never managed in the PL before, let alone an inexperienced manager being thrown into a relegation battle (again!!!). I will keep saying it, as people seem to have short memories. Sacked Ralph, we got Jones. Sacked Jones we got Selles. Ofcoures I would be delighted with a decent appointment and new direction with a Potter or Moyes. But I can't see it happening. These managers have too much clout, too many opinions for the owners and board at our club. They like to do things their way. Plus, ex Chelsea and West Ham managers want the same salary, if not more that they had at their previous clubs. If we end up getting some potential from the lower leagues, I would rather stick with RM. That's just my opinion. [Post edited 12 Oct 13:33]
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Corberan is utterly obsessed with football.
Cut from the same cloth as Pochettino. | |
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| Four days off on 08:49 - Oct 13 with 3221 views | saintwizzler |
Russell Martin should only be sacked if he’s replaced by a better manager.
That is so simple.
Surely the powers that he have learnt from the Jones and Selles debacle.
We also wasted three months on Hasenhüttl who didn’t want to be at the club but couldn’t resign as he’d lose a fortune.
Martin will be around till November at least and hopefully we have taken points from Leicester, Everton and Wolves.
Minimum of 7 points.
Unless the club goes out and buys 5 or 6 £30m + players with PL quality we are going down.
It ain’t going to happen.
These players aren’t good enough for this league. | |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Four days off on 08:59 - Oct 13 with 3210 views | mushinexile |
if they were good enough to be promoted, they have proved themselves to be of PL standard. A good manager should be able to develop and further inspire them to be good PL players. Poch and WGS were able to do it and now it is up to our manager to do the same. If he can't, ditch him for somebody who can because better players are a saleable asset and increase the value of the club which is the fundamental job of a manager. | | | |
| Four days off on 09:13 - Oct 13 with 3202 views | PatfromPoole |
| Four days off on 08:49 - Oct 13 by saintwizzler |
Russell Martin should only be sacked if he’s replaced by a better manager.
That is so simple.
Surely the powers that he have learnt from the Jones and Selles debacle.
We also wasted three months on Hasenhüttl who didn’t want to be at the club but couldn’t resign as he’d lose a fortune.
Martin will be around till November at least and hopefully we have taken points from Leicester, Everton and Wolves.
Minimum of 7 points.
Unless the club goes out and buys 5 or 6 £30m + players with PL quality we are going down.
It ain’t going to happen.
These players aren’t good enough for this league. |
I think we have had managers in this League who have improved players who we may not have thought were good enough for the Prem.
A very good coach will improve players AND make sure that the team is more than the whole of its parts.
Martin did a good job for us in the Championship, but the gap in quality to the Prem is a bigger jump for him than it is for the players.
It is becoming more obvious by the week. | |
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| Four days off on 11:19 - Oct 13 with 3078 views | saintmark1976 |
| Four days off on 09:13 - Oct 13 by PatfromPoole |
I think we have had managers in this League who have improved players who we may not have thought were good enough for the Prem.
A very good coach will improve players AND make sure that the team is more than the whole of its parts.
Martin did a good job for us in the Championship, but the gap in quality to the Prem is a bigger jump for him than it is for the players.
It is becoming more obvious by the week. |
Pat, we’ve played seven games and obtained one point. Scored the grand total of four goals ( worst in the league) and conceded fifteen ( joint worst with Everton ) which indicates to me that our squad is very poor by any standard.
Russell Martin ( or any replacement ) has been left with an impossible job and that’s why we are 1/4 to be relegated.
It’s my opinion that no amount of coaching of players or changed tactics will make a difference because the players assembled by the club just aren’t good enough to avoid relegation.
The Championship beckons once again probably before the turn of the year. | |
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| Four days off on 11:51 - Oct 13 with 3044 views | PatfromPoole |
| Four days off on 11:19 - Oct 13 by saintmark1976 |
Pat, we’ve played seven games and obtained one point. Scored the grand total of four goals ( worst in the league) and conceded fifteen ( joint worst with Everton ) which indicates to me that our squad is very poor by any standard.
Russell Martin ( or any replacement ) has been left with an impossible job and that’s why we are 1/4 to be relegated.
It’s my opinion that no amount of coaching of players or changed tactics will make a difference because the players assembled by the club just aren’t good enough to avoid relegation.
The Championship beckons once again probably before the turn of the year. |
What happened to the adage of players improving as a consequence of quality coaching?
And having their fitness improved so that we will not flag in the last 20 minutes of games?
And working on set pieces so that we can make the most of small margins in games.
None of which will be addressed by players being given 4 days off….
I am genuinely really baffled by this decision of Martin.
Charity game or no charity game.
Time for him to depart. | |
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| Four days off on 12:28 - Oct 13 with 3002 views | Ifonly |
| Four days off on 11:19 - Oct 13 by saintmark1976 |
Pat, we’ve played seven games and obtained one point. Scored the grand total of four goals ( worst in the league) and conceded fifteen ( joint worst with Everton ) which indicates to me that our squad is very poor by any standard.
Russell Martin ( or any replacement ) has been left with an impossible job and that’s why we are 1/4 to be relegated.
It’s my opinion that no amount of coaching of players or changed tactics will make a difference because the players assembled by the club just aren’t good enough to avoid relegation.
The Championship beckons once again probably before the turn of the year. |
The problems with this type of argument are many, including what Pat has said above, but also:
1) The squad may be limited, that's true, but RM is partly to blame for that. He has a big say in recruitment. To take one example of where this has failed us, we could have signed the Brazilian centre forward but his club said they weren't given enough time to sign a replacement. I can't believe that would have happened if signing a centre forward had been RM's priority. Clearly it wasn't so we ended up with a collection of useless general purpose forwards instead. If RM is still in place in January, that will be another window of signing the wrong players.
2) It would be fairly easy to improve our current form, simply by not giving stupid goals away. Any decent coach could do this easily. So could RM if he wanted to, but he doesn't.
3) Even if we're relegated, we need to show some fight and we need to avoid Deby's record for the worst ever PL team. Under RM I think we will fail on both counts. | | | |
| Four days off on 13:31 - Oct 13 with 2842 views | Southamptonfan |
| Four days off on 11:51 - Oct 13 by PatfromPoole |
What happened to the adage of players improving as a consequence of quality coaching?
And having their fitness improved so that we will not flag in the last 20 minutes of games?
And working on set pieces so that we can make the most of small margins in games.
None of which will be addressed by players being given 4 days off….
I am genuinely really baffled by this decision of Martin.
Charity game or no charity game.
Time for him to depart. |
What happened?? The Premier League and Sky happened which means that money now buys you the best team. You can't coach a player to be like Haaland, to be like Le Tissier. The best players are already good players, and the poor ones are poor. Are you saying another manager would make Stephens into a top quality defender? Clubs that spend the most money have the best players. Yes, we can work on things, but we would still miss penalties, and hit the bar when it's easier to score and still make mistakes at the back.
If all that was needed, was to coach players into great players, without spending money, why wouldn't clubs save the money and just coach? They spend the money because coaching rubbish players into world beaters isn't possible. If it was, they wouldn't spend hundreds of millions. They would save the money and just coach them for free. All three promoted sides went down last season. All three promoted sides are struggling this year. Leicester are doing the best out of the three, not because of coaching but because they have players like Vardy who wins them games. [Post edited 13 Oct 13:35]
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| Four days off on 13:36 - Oct 13 with 2829 views | PatfromPoole |
| Four days off on 13:31 - Oct 13 by Southamptonfan |
What happened?? The Premier League and Sky happened which means that money now buys you the best team. You can't coach a player to be like Haaland, to be like Le Tissier. The best players are already good players, and the poor ones are poor. Are you saying another manager would make Stephens into a top quality defender? Clubs that spend the most money have the best players. Yes, we can work on things, but we would still miss penalties, and hit the bar when it's easier to score and still make mistakes at the back.
If all that was needed, was to coach players into great players, without spending money, why wouldn't clubs save the money and just coach? They spend the money because coaching rubbish players into world beaters isn't possible. If it was, they wouldn't spend hundreds of millions. They would save the money and just coach them for free. All three promoted sides went down last season. All three promoted sides are struggling this year. Leicester are doing the best out of the three, not because of coaching but because they have players like Vardy who wins them games. [Post edited 13 Oct 13:35]
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They don’t have to be world-beaters.
They just have to win 9 games and draw 7 or 8 games in a 38-game season.
This isn’t asking them to climb Everest. | |
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| Four days off on 13:41 - Oct 13 with 2825 views | PatfromPoole |
| Four days off on 13:31 - Oct 13 by Southamptonfan |
What happened?? The Premier League and Sky happened which means that money now buys you the best team. You can't coach a player to be like Haaland, to be like Le Tissier. The best players are already good players, and the poor ones are poor. Are you saying another manager would make Stephens into a top quality defender? Clubs that spend the most money have the best players. Yes, we can work on things, but we would still miss penalties, and hit the bar when it's easier to score and still make mistakes at the back.
If all that was needed, was to coach players into great players, without spending money, why wouldn't clubs save the money and just coach? They spend the money because coaching rubbish players into world beaters isn't possible. If it was, they wouldn't spend hundreds of millions. They would save the money and just coach them for free. All three promoted sides went down last season. All three promoted sides are struggling this year. Leicester are doing the best out of the three, not because of coaching but because they have players like Vardy who wins them games. [Post edited 13 Oct 13:35]
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Look at Crystal Palace’s record against Man. City over the last 5 seasons.
They have given them a right old challenge in virtually every game and beaten them a few times. I remember a couple of wins at the Etihad.
And that’s Palace, not a big-spender like Chelsea or Tottenham.
We just seem to have conceded the inevitable.
Which completely suits Russell Martin. | |
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