| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? 23:43 - Sep 27 with 2825 views | hedgeend61 |
Can some who's maybe managed a team, please tell me why us, and many other teams including England against rubbish teams like Slovenia do this?
Take last Saturday against Ipswich, from the corner they scored from, we had 9! in the 6 yard and AA watching just outside , what's the point in bringing midgets back anyway?
If you left 2 up on the halfway line surely they'd have to leave 2/3 back, which would mean they'd only have 6/7 in the penalty area causing chaos.
Any ideas? |  | | |  |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 23:50 - Sep 27 with 2782 views | PatfromPoole |
I don’t think it would make any difference in the 95th minute.
If we had left 2 on the halfway line, I think Ipswich would have just left them there unmarked.
I saw a stat somewhere that teams were more likely to concede a goal from their own corner than score one; not sure how true that is….. |  |
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| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 07:43 - Sep 28 with 2644 views | dirk_doone |
Against Ipswich, we were under siege from a stream of corners simply because we had no outlet. If we'd left Dibling on the halfway line, he'd not only have given us an oulet but also probably have got at least one chance to score.
If you leave one forward on the halfway line, the opposition leave 2 defenders back because 1 on 1 is considered too risky, so it's doubly effective because it takes another man away from your goal. But as all of our players were back near our own goal, Ipswich didn't need to leave anyone back at all, which effectively gave them one man more in attack than they'd otherwise have had.
But it seems that our passing stat man isn't interested in anything like this. One of our main tactics, even in open play, is to pull all of our players back towards our own goal, simply so they can make short passes to each other with less interfence from opposition players, which, without an attacking outlet for a counterattack, is just passing for passing's sake. [Post edited 28 Sep 8:20]
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| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 08:17 - Sep 28 with 2564 views | saintwizzler |
Our manager is paid millions to decide on tactics.
Please trust in him.
Please TRUST THE PROCESS. |  |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 08:25 - Sep 28 with 2526 views | cocklebreath |
It’s simple maths, leave one up the field the opposition will leave 2 meaning you are one better off and also have an outlet, it winds me up. Thick |  |
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| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 08:59 - Sep 28 with 2518 views | hedgeend61 |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 23:50 - Sep 27 by PatfromPoole |
I don’t think it would make any difference in the 95th minute.
If we had left 2 on the halfway line, I think Ipswich would have just left them there unmarked.
I saw a stat somewhere that teams were more likely to concede a goal from their own corner than score one; not sure how true that is….. |
You're right Pat, they had nothing to lose in the 95th min.
They wouldn't have done that in the 5th min though, would they?
Even England do it when they play minnows who wouldn't ever score if they played the likes of Northern Ireland, it's crazy | | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 09:01 - Sep 28 with 2508 views | PatfromPoole |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 08:59 - Sep 28 by hedgeend61 |
You're right Pat, they had nothing to lose in the 95th min.
They wouldn't have done that in the 5th min though, would they?
Even England do it when they play minnows who wouldn't ever score if they played the likes of Northern Ireland, it's crazy |
I suppose a minnow team’s best chance of scoring may well actually be a set-piece, ironically. | |
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| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 11:03 - Sep 28 with 2389 views | Ifonly |
Personally I agree that usually it's a bad idea to bring everyone back, particularly when you have a speedster who is a real threat on the break, but there are a number of reasons it might be done, depending on circumstances.
One reason it's done is to deny space to the opposition. Basically it's a lot harder to score in a crowded penalty box than when there are only a few players in it. If it's crowded, it's harder for an attacker to peel off their marker without bumping into someone else and harder to get an unobstructed run up to jump for the ball. Even a midget can obstruct a jump or cover space.
It's a bit like defending in open play. If you left 5 players up field when you're defending in open play, that might occupy 6 or 7 opposition players right? But no one does that. Everyone brings back nearly all of their players even in open play (or even all of them sometimes).
Also, at a corner you have a number of specialist jobs to do. In an ideal world, you want to have enough defenders to man mark, some to cover dangerous spaces, one to cover the short corner, maybe one on the post and maybe one protecting the goalkeeper. You need a lot of players to do all of that, so the temptation is to bring everyone back. Even then, you will struggle to do everything you want to.
Even if you left one player up field, that may not help you. If the opposition respond by having one man marker and one marking the space between that player and your box, then you haven't really reduced the threat, particularly if the opposition players they use to cover aren't really an aerial threat from corners.
In the 95th minute it sort of makes sense to bring everyone back. The thing that Saints really got wrong against Ipswich was not so much bringing everyone back as having everyone doing the same job, which was overkill and left some jobs undone. All they needed was one marking space either on the penalty spot or on the edge of the box where there were 3 Ipswich players. It was bad discipline from a standard set piece that cost us that goal - not the first time that's happened. |  | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 11:18 - Sep 28 with 2380 views | PatfromPoole |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 11:03 - Sep 28 by Ifonly |
Personally I agree that usually it's a bad idea to bring everyone back, particularly when you have a speedster who is a real threat on the break, but there are a number of reasons it might be done, depending on circumstances.
One reason it's done is to deny space to the opposition. Basically it's a lot harder to score in a crowded penalty box than when there are only a few players in it. If it's crowded, it's harder for an attacker to peel off their marker without bumping into someone else and harder to get an unobstructed run up to jump for the ball. Even a midget can obstruct a jump or cover space.
It's a bit like defending in open play. If you left 5 players up field when you're defending in open play, that might occupy 6 or 7 opposition players right? But no one does that. Everyone brings back nearly all of their players even in open play (or even all of them sometimes).
Also, at a corner you have a number of specialist jobs to do. In an ideal world, you want to have enough defenders to man mark, some to cover dangerous spaces, one to cover the short corner, maybe one on the post and maybe one protecting the goalkeeper. You need a lot of players to do all of that, so the temptation is to bring everyone back. Even then, you will struggle to do everything you want to.
Even if you left one player up field, that may not help you. If the opposition respond by having one man marker and one marking the space between that player and your box, then you haven't really reduced the threat, particularly if the opposition players they use to cover aren't really an aerial threat from corners.
In the 95th minute it sort of makes sense to bring everyone back. The thing that Saints really got wrong against Ipswich was not so much bringing everyone back as having everyone doing the same job, which was overkill and left some jobs undone. All they needed was one marking space either on the penalty spot or on the edge of the box where there were 3 Ipswich players. It was bad discipline from a standard set piece that cost us that goal - not the first time that's happened. |
Just common sense really,.
If we clear the ball away, it’s fairly likely to drop near the edge of the box.
Maybe our players just lack this.. | |
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| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 11:38 - Sep 28 with 2313 views | Ifonly |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 11:18 - Sep 28 by PatfromPoole |
Just common sense really,.
If we clear the ball away, it’s fairly likely to drop near the edge of the box.
Maybe our players just lack this.. |
RM's subsequent comments suggest that some didn't do their jobs (i.e. mark that space) and got sucked in to the ball. He blamed "anxiety" and "desperation to hang on". | | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 12:04 - Sep 28 with 2292 views | GRIM |
When I was managing a local football team we had a habit of conceding from corners & set pieces.
Spoke to our Goalkeeper & ctr backs & they agreed that because there were so many bodies in the box they couldn't get to the ball to clear it.
The ctr backs were the biggest & best headers of the ball that we had in the team so it was important that they had best chance of getting to the ball.
To overcome this we decided to leave both our two quickest players on the half way line ( who were actually not good defenders & just got in the way).
What this did was it meant the opposition always kept 2 or more players back in case we broke out from the corner.
It solved the problem, not sure it would be a good tactic in Premier lge but it would be worth a try. | | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 17:11 - Sep 28 with 2180 views | kingolaf |
The whole team back, yet they had 3 men unmarked around the edge of the area. Diaz wins the header, and there is nobody to clear it. Madness. Sums Martin up for me, amateur hour. | | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 18:00 - Sep 28 with 2120 views | SonicBoom |
Let's be honest, it's the premier league. It will all be stat driven. They will look at the numbers comparing goals conceded leaving players up the pitch and they will decide that the maths say it's better not to. |  | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 20:32 - Sep 28 with 2067 views | GRIM |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 18:00 - Sep 28 by SonicBoom |
Let's be honest, it's the premier league. It will all be stat driven. They will look at the numbers comparing goals conceded leaving players up the pitch and they will decide that the maths say it's better not to. |
You're right that is how the experts see it now.
But football is not played on a computer.
That's why you need players that can think for themselves & make things happen. | | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 21:01 - Sep 28 with 2036 views | Saintcole7 |
It was the same last year at home in the Championship, everyone in our box even against the poorer teams! | | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 22:05 - Sep 28 with 1993 views | hedgeend61 |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 21:01 - Sep 28 by Saintcole7 |
It was the same last year at home in the Championship, everyone in our box even against the poorer teams! |
Same as England when they they play rubbish like Slovenia/Slovakia.
Leave Kane Saka Palmer on the halfway line, that'll give them a problem, don't let them take the p1ss, show them no respect, they won't send too many forward then, will they? | | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 13:48 - Sep 29 with 1670 views | sledger |
ive always wondered why nobody leaves a player up,leave one up the opposition will leave two markers plus one in front | | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 10:52 - Sep 30 with 1515 views | ericofarabia |
Preaching to the converted.
I have been banging on about this for ages!
Absolutely no outlet for the keeper if he catches it. Only one way a headed or punched clearance is going to end up.... Back in the box or back of the net. |  | | |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 11:10 - Sep 30 with 1501 views | dirk_doone |
| Corners, why do teams bring all 10 players back for a corner? on 10:52 - Sep 30 by ericofarabia |
Preaching to the converted.
I have been banging on about this for ages!
Absolutely no outlet for the keeper if he catches it. Only one way a headed or punched clearance is going to end up.... Back in the box or back of the net. |
Which is a particular shame because Ramsdale is a very good long passer of the ball. His long kicks invariably find their man. All we'd need to do is put Dibling on the halfway line and have Ramsdale kick the ball to him.
Talking of accurate long passes, I remember Le Tissier in a pre-match warm-up, standing on the halfway line and kicking the ball against the crossbar so that it came back to him, then repeating it twice more. [Post edited 30 Sep 11:25]
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