| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin 10:28 - Sep 4 with 1991 views | PatfromPoole |
Richard Keys is a coont of the highest order.
However, I did find part of his latest blog quite interesting.
Particularly the part where he compares Martin with Vincent Kompany.
I suppose none of us thought Martin was going to be around with us for that long, but I guess there is a grain of truth in Keys alluding to potential "auditioning".....
".....A quick mention for Russell Martin, who reckons his suicidal approach to the game would be ‘questioned less I was foreign’. No it wouldn’t Russell.
Wise up man before it’s too late. Saints remind me of Burnley last season - who were, of course, managed by a foreigner. He too insisted he wanted to play the ‘right way’. He too got spanked most weekends and his team were all but down by Christmas.
I said then Vincent Kompany’s approach was a season long interview for a better job. Burnley fans reared up in his defence. But was I right wasnt I? His mate Guardiola played him into Munich - and Burnley went down. He got what he wanted and he didn’t care a jot about Burnley.
I’m not saying Martin is auditioning, but he’s heading for the exit door if Saints don’t change....."
https://richardajkeys.com/blog/
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| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 10:51 - Sep 4 with 1932 views | DorsetIan |
It's pretty reasonable and rational to use Burnley as an example of what can and can't be done in the PL. And clever people learn from the mistakes of others rather than always insisting on making their own.
However, RM has still got my support if he wants to keep trying to play this way for a few games longer. It's probably madness but he's earned the right to a bit of indulgence. |  |
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| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 12:25 - Sep 4 with 1796 views | MattFinish |
I was critical of RM last season but he stuck to his principles and got performances from a set of players who were not tipped for promotion and got the job done so it would be crazy to sack him now.
I'd say give him at least a third to half a season to see what he can do. Personally I think he’ll turn it around, but it was always going to be a tough season.
However I think like Ralph under Gao, Martin has been hamstrung by the quality of players he's been given and I think Sports Republic are worse than Gao because Gao just refused to pay money out whereas SR don't seem to have a clue what they’re doing in the transfer market
Sports Republic’s plan to keep Southampton in the Premier League was to keep Adam Armstrong and Ross Stewart and add Ben Brereton-Diaz, Cameron Archer and Maxwell Cornet. As a collective they have scored a total of 24 goals in 162 games in the PL ie an entire strike force that scores once in every 7 games. That obviously doesn’t include Ross Stewart who in fairness hasn’t played in the PL and probably never will, but if you want you can add in the zero goals he’s scored for us in the 12 months since we bought him. It really makes it a tough ask for any manager
A team coming up from the Championship will have to add players to improve the team, ie tried and tested PL or top European league players. Apart from Ramsdale we haven’t added anyone who is better than what we had last season and let’s face it if Bazunu wasn’t injured we wouldn’t have got Ramsdale.
This window we have a net spend of +£67.9m. That’s more than Wolves, Everton, Crystal Palace, Newcastle, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Arsenal, Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham, Nottingham Forest, Leicester and Chelsea.
When Sports Republic bought Southampton they spent £128m to try and keep us in the PL mainly on utter pap. Some very serious questions need to be asked of whoever is in charge of transfers [Post edited 4 Sep 12:27]
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| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 13:24 - Sep 4 with 1713 views | Ifonly |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 12:25 - Sep 4 by MattFinish |
I was critical of RM last season but he stuck to his principles and got performances from a set of players who were not tipped for promotion and got the job done so it would be crazy to sack him now.
I'd say give him at least a third to half a season to see what he can do. Personally I think he’ll turn it around, but it was always going to be a tough season.
However I think like Ralph under Gao, Martin has been hamstrung by the quality of players he's been given and I think Sports Republic are worse than Gao because Gao just refused to pay money out whereas SR don't seem to have a clue what they’re doing in the transfer market
Sports Republic’s plan to keep Southampton in the Premier League was to keep Adam Armstrong and Ross Stewart and add Ben Brereton-Diaz, Cameron Archer and Maxwell Cornet. As a collective they have scored a total of 24 goals in 162 games in the PL ie an entire strike force that scores once in every 7 games. That obviously doesn’t include Ross Stewart who in fairness hasn’t played in the PL and probably never will, but if you want you can add in the zero goals he’s scored for us in the 12 months since we bought him. It really makes it a tough ask for any manager
A team coming up from the Championship will have to add players to improve the team, ie tried and tested PL or top European league players. Apart from Ramsdale we haven’t added anyone who is better than what we had last season and let’s face it if Bazunu wasn’t injured we wouldn’t have got Ramsdale.
This window we have a net spend of +£67.9m. That’s more than Wolves, Everton, Crystal Palace, Newcastle, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Arsenal, Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham, Nottingham Forest, Leicester and Chelsea.
When Sports Republic bought Southampton they spent £128m to try and keep us in the PL mainly on utter pap. Some very serious questions need to be asked of whoever is in charge of transfers [Post edited 4 Sep 12:27]
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"Martin has been hamstrung by the quality of players he's been given"
A good coach sets his tactics according to the abilities of his players. He doesn't ask them to do things that they can't. RM has had over a year to look at McCarthy, Bednarek, Stephens and THB. He should know exactly how good they are. Yet he still tells them to play dangerous passes at the back because, according to him, the rewards outweigh the risks. This is entirely down to him.
Why has he done this given that he seemed to learn at the end of last season to limit the amount of tippy tappy around our box? Why has he gone back to his earlier purist approach rather than one that fits the players and rescued our promotion push? The suggestion that he is putting himself in the shop window, like Kompany did, is consistent with the facts. Either way, you can tell from the comments he makes that this season he cares more about playing the "right" way than he does about grinding out results. | | | |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 14:27 - Sep 4 with 1648 views | MattFinish |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 13:24 - Sep 4 by Ifonly |
"Martin has been hamstrung by the quality of players he's been given"
A good coach sets his tactics according to the abilities of his players. He doesn't ask them to do things that they can't. RM has had over a year to look at McCarthy, Bednarek, Stephens and THB. He should know exactly how good they are. Yet he still tells them to play dangerous passes at the back because, according to him, the rewards outweigh the risks. This is entirely down to him.
Why has he done this given that he seemed to learn at the end of last season to limit the amount of tippy tappy around our box? Why has he gone back to his earlier purist approach rather than one that fits the players and rescued our promotion push? The suggestion that he is putting himself in the shop window, like Kompany did, is consistent with the facts. Either way, you can tell from the comments he makes that this season he cares more about playing the "right" way than he does about grinding out results. |
“ He doesn't ask them to do things that they can't.” So he just needs to ask the strikers he has available to him to score goals, which they’ve proven under a number of different managers that they are incapable of?
Despite his style of football which I was often sceptical about he still got us promoted last season in the toughest Championship promotion race ever and we played the most attractive football in the division when it came off
I think we need to cut him some slack | | | |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 17:58 - Sep 4 with 1359 views | Ron11 |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 14:27 - Sep 4 by MattFinish |
“ He doesn't ask them to do things that they can't.” So he just needs to ask the strikers he has available to him to score goals, which they’ve proven under a number of different managers that they are incapable of?
Despite his style of football which I was often sceptical about he still got us promoted last season in the toughest Championship promotion race ever and we played the most attractive football in the division when it came off
I think we need to cut him some slack |
Bazunu getting injured got Saints promoted in the end, because Martin had to change it to fit McCarthy in.
Otherwise, they'd still be pissing about at the back in the Championship, which does give an insight what can be done with this squad (and now with a few more good players) if he is forced to curtail his stubborn arrogance. | | | |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 18:14 - Sep 4 with 1359 views | sledger |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 17:58 - Sep 4 by Ron11 |
Bazunu getting injured got Saints promoted in the end, because Martin had to change it to fit McCarthy in.
Otherwise, they'd still be pissing about at the back in the Championship, which does give an insight what can be done with this squad (and now with a few more good players) if he is forced to curtail his stubborn arrogance. |
this is 100% true,and dont forget his tactics and methods saw us ship 63 goals in the championship because of his tactics and a cr+p keeper | | | |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 19:08 - Sep 4 with 1308 views | Flamingbankers |
That's a really interesting, although initially (seemingly) conspiratorial, point that Keys makes about Kompany and Martin, by implication, playing to a pre-prescribed system (although I don't have any prior knowledge of the chap). You have to ask yourself why would Kompany, an ex- Man City player and rookie manager continued to play 'that way' for a whole season in the Prem - it just doesn't make any sense because anybody could see that they were always going to be relegated playing like that.
Why would Martin continue to play in the same way as Kompany when it's clearly useless against better, and better organised, teams in the Prem or even simply well organised teams in the championship or the cup competitions? Martin conveniently seemed to have no qualms about changing formation and the system and getting us in to the Prem. Seemingly a genius move. The selection of McCarthy would then also make sense.
But if Kompany, had (or Martin has) prior knowledge of the rewards then , yes, that would also make sense.
The big teams value the European Championship, perhaps more than the league, and would have to play in a certain style - the Barcelona/Man City style to be precise - to challenge and beat the best at least in Europe. If you can build a team of the highest calibre possible, that can play brilliant tippy-tappy football around, and out of, your own penalty box, then you can challenge for the most prestigious trophies and rake in the other benefits, such as, selling off successful players at exorbitant fees and take the highest possible TV money. It also makes sense because all the other top teams with the best players play in the same way. We all know that teams change formations to match the opposition if they're getting the upper-hand.
So that leads us to what Saints fans care about. Is Martin going to do the same? If so he needs kicking out as quickly as possible because he's selling our club down the river. Those huge clubs couldn't care less about Burnley and Southampton - we're merely lambs to the slaughter. Once again, that makes sense, it simply shows, the ruthlessness of the big clubs and shouldn't really be a surprise - although the vision and the extent of their machinations may be.
May be to get what they need the big clubs need managers that are narcissistic, confidence tricksters to take on and continue with the agenda; making excuse after excuse about pathetic defensive mistakes but continuing with the same method, seemingly undaunted. The players must continue to be brave and take risks according to Martin.
Again, teams like Burnley and Saints are just pawns in bigger teams games. We take some of their younger players who either perform well and are returned or sold on according to needs. The bigger clubs also palm off some players that are never going to make in the Premier League where an initial fee of, say £10 million, which is just the ticket for adjusting the books.
A lot of other questions also make sense when you consider this. Why did Wilcox come to Saints: off-loading a few poor players - a good one who was injury prone, a reasonable central defender, an average winger and a novice goalkeeper? Only to quickly hurry off to Man Utd. Is this part of a predesigned ploy to impart 'the system' on Saints whilst tutoring Russell Martin. Similar questions have to asked about SR - Why do they keep appointing 'risky' managers, etc ?
If Martin's got a big job lined-up elsewhere, he would be adamant that he's not going to change 'his system' ( it's not really his system is it?). Even if he changes the system for a few matches, Ralph Hassle was the same. Why should he care? He's already got a huge contact that's set him up for life as did Ralph.
It seems a system is being designed, whether by deliberate actions or as a by-product, to suit the bigger clubs so that that can play themselves in a bubble and ignore everyone else. The top leagues facilitate this behaviour and the exploitation of smaller clubs is part and parcel of this plan/agenda. You just have to look at the recent rigged PSR rules and League cup draw to see that this is at least generally true. [Post edited 4 Sep 19:14]
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| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 19:33 - Sep 4 with 1279 views | PatfromPoole |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 19:08 - Sep 4 by Flamingbankers |
That's a really interesting, although initially (seemingly) conspiratorial, point that Keys makes about Kompany and Martin, by implication, playing to a pre-prescribed system (although I don't have any prior knowledge of the chap). You have to ask yourself why would Kompany, an ex- Man City player and rookie manager continued to play 'that way' for a whole season in the Prem - it just doesn't make any sense because anybody could see that they were always going to be relegated playing like that.
Why would Martin continue to play in the same way as Kompany when it's clearly useless against better, and better organised, teams in the Prem or even simply well organised teams in the championship or the cup competitions? Martin conveniently seemed to have no qualms about changing formation and the system and getting us in to the Prem. Seemingly a genius move. The selection of McCarthy would then also make sense.
But if Kompany, had (or Martin has) prior knowledge of the rewards then , yes, that would also make sense.
The big teams value the European Championship, perhaps more than the league, and would have to play in a certain style - the Barcelona/Man City style to be precise - to challenge and beat the best at least in Europe. If you can build a team of the highest calibre possible, that can play brilliant tippy-tappy football around, and out of, your own penalty box, then you can challenge for the most prestigious trophies and rake in the other benefits, such as, selling off successful players at exorbitant fees and take the highest possible TV money. It also makes sense because all the other top teams with the best players play in the same way. We all know that teams change formations to match the opposition if they're getting the upper-hand.
So that leads us to what Saints fans care about. Is Martin going to do the same? If so he needs kicking out as quickly as possible because he's selling our club down the river. Those huge clubs couldn't care less about Burnley and Southampton - we're merely lambs to the slaughter. Once again, that makes sense, it simply shows, the ruthlessness of the big clubs and shouldn't really be a surprise - although the vision and the extent of their machinations may be.
May be to get what they need the big clubs need managers that are narcissistic, confidence tricksters to take on and continue with the agenda; making excuse after excuse about pathetic defensive mistakes but continuing with the same method, seemingly undaunted. The players must continue to be brave and take risks according to Martin.
Again, teams like Burnley and Saints are just pawns in bigger teams games. We take some of their younger players who either perform well and are returned or sold on according to needs. The bigger clubs also palm off some players that are never going to make in the Premier League where an initial fee of, say £10 million, which is just the ticket for adjusting the books.
A lot of other questions also make sense when you consider this. Why did Wilcox come to Saints: off-loading a few poor players - a good one who was injury prone, a reasonable central defender, an average winger and a novice goalkeeper? Only to quickly hurry off to Man Utd. Is this part of a predesigned ploy to impart 'the system' on Saints whilst tutoring Russell Martin. Similar questions have to asked about SR - Why do they keep appointing 'risky' managers, etc ?
If Martin's got a big job lined-up elsewhere, he would be adamant that he's not going to change 'his system' ( it's not really his system is it?). Even if he changes the system for a few matches, Ralph Hassle was the same. Why should he care? He's already got a huge contact that's set him up for life as did Ralph.
It seems a system is being designed, whether by deliberate actions or as a by-product, to suit the bigger clubs so that that can play themselves in a bubble and ignore everyone else. The top leagues facilitate this behaviour and the exploitation of smaller clubs is part and parcel of this plan/agenda. You just have to look at the recent rigged PSR rules and League cup draw to see that this is at least generally true. [Post edited 4 Sep 19:14]
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On the face of it, the appointment of Kompany by Bayern Munich made absolutely no sense.
Until you consider the past associations of Guardiola with Munich, and Kompany with Guardiola….. | |
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| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 20:07 - Sep 4 with 1231 views | StAnt |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 19:08 - Sep 4 by Flamingbankers |
That's a really interesting, although initially (seemingly) conspiratorial, point that Keys makes about Kompany and Martin, by implication, playing to a pre-prescribed system (although I don't have any prior knowledge of the chap). You have to ask yourself why would Kompany, an ex- Man City player and rookie manager continued to play 'that way' for a whole season in the Prem - it just doesn't make any sense because anybody could see that they were always going to be relegated playing like that.
Why would Martin continue to play in the same way as Kompany when it's clearly useless against better, and better organised, teams in the Prem or even simply well organised teams in the championship or the cup competitions? Martin conveniently seemed to have no qualms about changing formation and the system and getting us in to the Prem. Seemingly a genius move. The selection of McCarthy would then also make sense.
But if Kompany, had (or Martin has) prior knowledge of the rewards then , yes, that would also make sense.
The big teams value the European Championship, perhaps more than the league, and would have to play in a certain style - the Barcelona/Man City style to be precise - to challenge and beat the best at least in Europe. If you can build a team of the highest calibre possible, that can play brilliant tippy-tappy football around, and out of, your own penalty box, then you can challenge for the most prestigious trophies and rake in the other benefits, such as, selling off successful players at exorbitant fees and take the highest possible TV money. It also makes sense because all the other top teams with the best players play in the same way. We all know that teams change formations to match the opposition if they're getting the upper-hand.
So that leads us to what Saints fans care about. Is Martin going to do the same? If so he needs kicking out as quickly as possible because he's selling our club down the river. Those huge clubs couldn't care less about Burnley and Southampton - we're merely lambs to the slaughter. Once again, that makes sense, it simply shows, the ruthlessness of the big clubs and shouldn't really be a surprise - although the vision and the extent of their machinations may be.
May be to get what they need the big clubs need managers that are narcissistic, confidence tricksters to take on and continue with the agenda; making excuse after excuse about pathetic defensive mistakes but continuing with the same method, seemingly undaunted. The players must continue to be brave and take risks according to Martin.
Again, teams like Burnley and Saints are just pawns in bigger teams games. We take some of their younger players who either perform well and are returned or sold on according to needs. The bigger clubs also palm off some players that are never going to make in the Premier League where an initial fee of, say £10 million, which is just the ticket for adjusting the books.
A lot of other questions also make sense when you consider this. Why did Wilcox come to Saints: off-loading a few poor players - a good one who was injury prone, a reasonable central defender, an average winger and a novice goalkeeper? Only to quickly hurry off to Man Utd. Is this part of a predesigned ploy to impart 'the system' on Saints whilst tutoring Russell Martin. Similar questions have to asked about SR - Why do they keep appointing 'risky' managers, etc ?
If Martin's got a big job lined-up elsewhere, he would be adamant that he's not going to change 'his system' ( it's not really his system is it?). Even if he changes the system for a few matches, Ralph Hassle was the same. Why should he care? He's already got a huge contact that's set him up for life as did Ralph.
It seems a system is being designed, whether by deliberate actions or as a by-product, to suit the bigger clubs so that that can play themselves in a bubble and ignore everyone else. The top leagues facilitate this behaviour and the exploitation of smaller clubs is part and parcel of this plan/agenda. You just have to look at the recent rigged PSR rules and League cup draw to see that this is at least generally true. [Post edited 4 Sep 19:14]
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Give your head a wobble - who in their right mind is going to offer Russell Martin a top job? Vincent Kompany got the Bayern Munich job because of his name and what he achieved as a player. | | | |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 20:56 - Sep 4 with 1161 views | Flamingbankers |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 20:07 - Sep 4 by StAnt |
Give your head a wobble - who in their right mind is going to offer Russell Martin a top job? Vincent Kompany got the Bayern Munich job because of his name and what he achieved as a player. |
Really, we'll see? It's a little tongue in cheek but SR gave Russell Martin a job from Swansea to Southampton is, contextually, a fairly big move, considering Saints had just been relegated from the Premiership. Kompany, as a manager, to Bayern Munich? It's still ridiculous; what he achieved as a player is irrelevant; on that basis Paul Gascoigne would have been given the Barcelona job. | | | |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 21:29 - Sep 4 with 1124 views | PatfromPoole |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 20:07 - Sep 4 by StAnt |
Give your head a wobble - who in their right mind is going to offer Russell Martin a top job? Vincent Kompany got the Bayern Munich job because of his name and what he achieved as a player. |
What he achieved as a player is totally negated by what happened at Burnley last season. | |
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| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 10:16 - Sep 5 with 819 views | StAnt |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 21:29 - Sep 4 by PatfromPoole |
What he achieved as a player is totally negated by what happened at Burnley last season. |
His new employers obviously don't think so. | | | |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 11:00 - Sep 5 with 767 views | Flamingbankers |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 10:16 - Sep 5 by StAnt |
His new employers obviously don't think so. |
That's why I say it's an interesting point - the question is why? When they had all the experienced managers in the the world to choose from? That's part of my whole conjecture. Why would one of the world's greatest club sides pick a manager with two years experience including one year of relative abysmal failure. You should choose a manager for his/her experience and know-how - I suspect the know-how of possession football is what some of these big clubs, like Bayern Munich, now want to instill even if it takes a few years to develop.
As PP rightly highlighted; I suspect Keys 'could' have a point; it's quite possible that certain managers have been groomed to play that style of football. Burnley and Saints could be mere fodder. I'm not saying it's absolutely true; I'm saying it's worth thinking and talking about because it could be true. That's surely why we've got a Forum for Saints fans.
It's also interesting that very few teams seem to take up possession football, except only the very best, whilst canny others develop teams to just low block and break eg. Notts Forest. The teams that can do both effectively win the trophies.
But consistently playing just one style or the other is pretty rotten for the paying spectator played over a whole season especially if you haven't got the players to effectively execute what's needed against competent opposition. [Post edited 5 Sep 11:01]
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| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 13:32 - Sep 5 with 658 views | dirk_doone |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 11:00 - Sep 5 by Flamingbankers |
That's why I say it's an interesting point - the question is why? When they had all the experienced managers in the the world to choose from? That's part of my whole conjecture. Why would one of the world's greatest club sides pick a manager with two years experience including one year of relative abysmal failure. You should choose a manager for his/her experience and know-how - I suspect the know-how of possession football is what some of these big clubs, like Bayern Munich, now want to instill even if it takes a few years to develop.
As PP rightly highlighted; I suspect Keys 'could' have a point; it's quite possible that certain managers have been groomed to play that style of football. Burnley and Saints could be mere fodder. I'm not saying it's absolutely true; I'm saying it's worth thinking and talking about because it could be true. That's surely why we've got a Forum for Saints fans.
It's also interesting that very few teams seem to take up possession football, except only the very best, whilst canny others develop teams to just low block and break eg. Notts Forest. The teams that can do both effectively win the trophies.
But consistently playing just one style or the other is pretty rotten for the paying spectator played over a whole season especially if you haven't got the players to effectively execute what's needed against competent opposition. [Post edited 5 Sep 11:01]
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Kompany took Anderlecht to a cup final and then won the Championship with Burnley. That's a lot better than finishing 19th and 13th with MK Dons, 15th and 10th with Swansea and 4th with Saints.
If Martin had won the Championship for us, we'd all be cutting him a lot of slack now. |  |
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| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 16:28 - Sep 5 with 531 views | kingolaf |
| Richard Keys views on Russell Martin on 13:32 - Sep 5 by dirk_doone |
Kompany took Anderlecht to a cup final and then won the Championship with Burnley. That's a lot better than finishing 19th and 13th with MK Dons, 15th and 10th with Swansea and 4th with Saints.
If Martin had won the Championship for us, we'd all be cutting him a lot of slack now. |
Agree with Keys 100%. | | | |
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