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Who are you voting for? on 19:13 - Jun 17 by Bridders2
I don't buy that argument, we're didn't have a shortages of people to do jobs in the 70s, 80s and 90s and immigration was about 30,000 a year. Blair started mass immigration in the late 90s as a political decision. We stopped training/paying our own people including our established immigration population because it was cheaper to get foreign workers....which as it happened drove down the wages of our poorest workers even more..
I was thinking more about the short term.
How things were in the 70s, 80s and 90s doesn't help us now when we've had years of relying on immigrant labour to do certain jobs. It'll take time to shift the dial in the way you would want and I think that's been the Tory Party's problem post-Brexit - the need to those jobs filled in the short term.
And the other point is that you are right about the wages. But if the wages go up then so too do the costs for the employer and the customer. There is already a cost of living crisis, so assuming that the economy can simply absorb higher wages is fine in the long term but in the short term, that also creates its own problems.
Who are you voting for? on 19:25 - Jun 17 by HaroldKSteptoe
Changes to corporation tax, vat, small/medium businesses changes to business rates etc. you do know you can go on all the party’s websites and actually read their manifestos.
I see Reform as a one issue party - immigration.
I don't really take much notice of their other policies, or take them too seriously and I don't think that they do either.
Actually, I don't take too much notice of manifestos full stop. Once a party has a majority is does whatever it wants anyway. Noone voted for Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak's policies in 2019.
Who are you voting for? on 11:14 - Jun 18 by DorsetIan
I see Reform as a one issue party - immigration.
I don't really take much notice of their other policies, or take them too seriously and I don't think that they do either.
Actually, I don't take too much notice of manifestos full stop. Once a party has a majority is does whatever it wants anyway. Noone voted for Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak's policies in 2019.
Agree with all that and want to add more; 5 recent Prime Ministers were not elected by GE
Reform who accept they won’t be elected, except by some very unlikely coalition, want to Move more NHS resource to frontline patient care Raise personal tax allowances to get poorer out of tax Increase support for Armed Services Nationalise 50% of Utilities
Perhaps some of these ideas may be picked up by the next government when they’ve finished slagging off the runners up!
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Who are you voting for? on 13:00 - Jun 18 with 1391 views
Who are you voting for? on 16:37 - Jun 13 by Bazza
You should read or listen to the news and stop looking at social media nonsense
If he was a racist he would be prosecuted.
If something looks like a dog, walks like a dog and barks like a dog, it’s a dog. Farage is a racist but he is careful about what he says and where he says it. He used to sing songs about gassing Jews and was proud that he had the same initials as the National Front when he was younger. 41 candidates of his current party have links with the leader of a party who are following in from Oswald Mosley’s party. The bloke is a fraud and a grifter. A vote for him is a vote for Britain’s Trump. He tries to tell you that he is a man of the people. How many people do you know who are millionaires and banked at Coutts? If you vote for him you are voting for a fascist dressed up as Toad of Toad Hall.
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Who are you voting for? on 13:16 - Jun 18 with 1389 views
Who are you voting for? on 12:30 - Jun 18 by Bazza
Agree with all that and want to add more; 5 recent Prime Ministers were not elected by GE
Reform who accept they won’t be elected, except by some very unlikely coalition, want to Move more NHS resource to frontline patient care Raise personal tax allowances to get poorer out of tax Increase support for Armed Services Nationalise 50% of Utilities
Perhaps some of these ideas may be picked up by the next government when they’ve finished slagging off the runners up!
The personal allowances point is really interesting. It was doubled from about £5/6K to £10/12K under the coalition govt of 2010, and my guess is that this was due to the influence of the Lib Dems at that time. It's a really simple and progressive move as it immediately lifts the poorest out of tax (and the other bands can be adjusted so that the very well off don't benefit from it).
But the trend in recent years has been to freeze it and this just has the opposite effect.
If, as is possible, Labout get a 200 hundred seat+ majority, they are going to get at least two, possibly 3 terms and will have a chance to change things radically in favour of working people and the NHS.
Who are you voting for? on 12:30 - Jun 18 by Bazza
Agree with all that and want to add more; 5 recent Prime Ministers were not elected by GE
Reform who accept they won’t be elected, except by some very unlikely coalition, want to Move more NHS resource to frontline patient care Raise personal tax allowances to get poorer out of tax Increase support for Armed Services Nationalise 50% of Utilities
Perhaps some of these ideas may be picked up by the next government when they’ve finished slagging off the runners up!
A very interesting manifesto ( he referred to it as contract ) from Mr Farage. The only concern being that every man and his dog immediately sussed that it was not financially viable.
Was I surprised at their conclusion, of course not. Why? Because his fantasy land economics are being put forward by a man who told us all that if we voted for his previous master plan the N H S would immediately receive an additional £350 million pounds a week and our borders would be instantly controlled. I don’t recall that’s gone very well, do you ?
Mr Farage is a charlatan with only two interests in life, himself and his good friend the equally odious Mr Trump. In their case never a truer word spoken “ Judge a man by the company he keeps “.
Who are you voting for? on 09:17 - Jun 18 by Bazza
Well Farage no longer presents on GB News. You’re also out of date on the presentation quality, probably you watched it when it was first broadcast. Actually GB News pride themselves on having alternative views in every discussion That’s not something you could level against the main channels.
Most of the media fail to be consistently independent so you just have to be aware of that. Of course Farage is often introduced using disparaging adjectives since he is seen as a threat to the status quo of the establishment
https://www.gbnews.com/shows/farage/ Albeit it’s all very low quality so it may be out of date but their website still seems to indicate he has a slot with episodes from a couple of weeks ago?
Watched a minute, quality still very poor (both what they are saying and production).
You stated that the previous news sources couldn’t be trusted- so let’s just ask you categorically, do you think they made up what he said/did or do you think they are being biased with the tone of the piece but the words they attribute to him are factual?
Who are you voting for? on 13:00 - Jun 18 by Sadoldgit
If something looks like a dog, walks like a dog and barks like a dog, it’s a dog. Farage is a racist but he is careful about what he says and where he says it. He used to sing songs about gassing Jews and was proud that he had the same initials as the National Front when he was younger. 41 candidates of his current party have links with the leader of a party who are following in from Oswald Mosley’s party. The bloke is a fraud and a grifter. A vote for him is a vote for Britain’s Trump. He tries to tell you that he is a man of the people. How many people do you know who are millionaires and banked at Coutts? If you vote for him you are voting for a fascist dressed up as Toad of Toad Hall.
Well your first paragraph sounds like your self description. When was Farage was younger he was actually at school. Oswald Mosley who has been dead for years included several royals in his followers! Time changes people. It has certainly changed my views. I was mad enough to vote Labour in my youth
Britain’s Trump is risible.
I don’t knowingly have any millionaire friends but I detect the your rancid aroma of envy. Tony Blair is very rich and still pulling Labour’s strings. As for Toad of Toad Hall he may a reasonable choice given the poor quality of some candidates, thanks for the suggestion.
We all have one vote whether stupid or wise, rich or poor. So I’ll be using mine as I wish, after a lot of thought, hope you do but somehow doubt it.
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Who are you voting for? on 14:28 - Jun 18 with 1318 views
Who are you voting for? on 14:13 - Jun 18 by Bazza
Well your first paragraph sounds like your self description. When was Farage was younger he was actually at school. Oswald Mosley who has been dead for years included several royals in his followers! Time changes people. It has certainly changed my views. I was mad enough to vote Labour in my youth
Britain’s Trump is risible.
I don’t knowingly have any millionaire friends but I detect the your rancid aroma of envy. Tony Blair is very rich and still pulling Labour’s strings. As for Toad of Toad Hall he may a reasonable choice given the poor quality of some candidates, thanks for the suggestion.
We all have one vote whether stupid or wise, rich or poor. So I’ll be using mine as I wish, after a lot of thought, hope you do but somehow doubt it.
Bazza, for the benefit of every one, including your good self, let’s keep our comments civil please.
I appreciate that passions may run deep particularly at general election time, but the content of your first sentence is not really necessary and does you no credit whatsoever. In the circumstances an apology would not go amiss.
Who are you voting for? on 14:28 - Jun 18 by saintmark1976
Bazza, for the benefit of every one, including your good self, let’s keep our comments civil please.
I appreciate that passions may run deep particularly at general election time, but the content of your first sentence is not really necessary and does you no credit whatsoever. In the circumstances an apology would not go amiss.
OK I apologise. But your comment really surprises me. I tried hard to avoid the several repeated misleading, often foul, criticisms by ardent rival political supporters on here.
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Who are you voting for? on 15:21 - Jun 18 with 1302 views
Who are you voting for? on 14:09 - Jun 18 by saintsfanbrock
https://www.gbnews.com/shows/farage/ Albeit it’s all very low quality so it may be out of date but their website still seems to indicate he has a slot with episodes from a couple of weeks ago?
Watched a minute, quality still very poor (both what they are saying and production).
You stated that the previous news sources couldn’t be trusted- so let’s just ask you categorically, do you think they made up what he said/did or do you think they are being biased with the tone of the piece but the words they attribute to him are factual?
I think the tone and words are biased and disrespectful. I don't love Farage but find some introductions of him unprofessional.
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Who are you voting for? on 16:36 - Jun 18 with 1279 views
Who are you voting for? on 15:16 - Jun 18 by Bazza
OK I apologise. But your comment really surprises me. I tried hard to avoid the several repeated misleading, often foul, criticisms by ardent rival political supporters on here.
Well done Bazza it takes a person with a good character to apologise, thank you.
I’ve held some strong views myself and made comments which later I wished I hadn’t, so your not alone by a long chalk. It’s all part of being human I suppose.
At the end of the day we may disagree about politics but what matters is that for some bizarre reason we all agree that we love The Saints.
Who are you voting for? on 11:09 - Jun 18 by DorsetIan
I was thinking more about the short term.
How things were in the 70s, 80s and 90s doesn't help us now when we've had years of relying on immigrant labour to do certain jobs. It'll take time to shift the dial in the way you would want and I think that's been the Tory Party's problem post-Brexit - the need to those jobs filled in the short term.
And the other point is that you are right about the wages. But if the wages go up then so too do the costs for the employer and the customer. There is already a cost of living crisis, so assuming that the economy can simply absorb higher wages is fine in the long term but in the short term, that also creates its own problems.
Well my point is, we never needed mass immigration and in the late 80s and early/mid 90s we were growing very fast as an economy (which Blair was very happy to inherit). The short term needs have hopefully been filled, but doesn't it concern you that we've imported 750,000 people in a year? That is the equivalent of 3 cities the size of Southampton, from predominantly third world countries. We used to be able to absorb other cultures over time and integrate people into our system, these numbers make that impossible. Your point about higher wage costs is relevant but in the growing GDP of the late 80s, 90s that could be maintained. So let's grow our economy use our own people to fill the jobs, after all we do have 9m who are economically inactive. I unfortunately know quite a few who are young but choose not to work because they can get paid by the govt not to. Maybe someone needs to get tough with them and help the genuine needy.
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Who are you voting for? on 17:57 - Jun 18 with 1252 views
Who are you voting for? on 13:00 - Jun 18 by Sadoldgit
If something looks like a dog, walks like a dog and barks like a dog, it’s a dog. Farage is a racist but he is careful about what he says and where he says it. He used to sing songs about gassing Jews and was proud that he had the same initials as the National Front when he was younger. 41 candidates of his current party have links with the leader of a party who are following in from Oswald Mosley’s party. The bloke is a fraud and a grifter. A vote for him is a vote for Britain’s Trump. He tries to tell you that he is a man of the people. How many people do you know who are millionaires and banked at Coutts? If you vote for him you are voting for a fascist dressed up as Toad of Toad Hall.
You remember the 70s don't you? Racism was mainstream, and openly condoned, and in all the media. Remember 'Love thy neighbour ', Till death do we part, Dick Emery, Bernard Manning, and just about every other comedian. Casual racism was in everyday language in the office, workplace, schools and on the street, thankfully not any more, so please have some perspective.
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Who are you voting for? on 18:49 - Jun 18 with 1233 views
Who are you voting for? on 16:36 - Jun 18 by saintmark1976
Well done Bazza it takes a person with a good character to apologise, thank you.
I’ve held some strong views myself and made comments which later I wished I hadn’t, so your not alone by a long chalk. It’s all part of being human I suppose.
At the end of the day we may disagree about politics but what matters is that for some bizarre reason we all agree that we love The Saints.
Yep, I can certainly agree on that. I’m definitely addicted to the Saints!
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Who are you voting for? on 21:40 - Jun 18 with 1197 views
Who are you voting for? on 17:43 - Jun 18 by Bridders2
Well my point is, we never needed mass immigration and in the late 80s and early/mid 90s we were growing very fast as an economy (which Blair was very happy to inherit). The short term needs have hopefully been filled, but doesn't it concern you that we've imported 750,000 people in a year? That is the equivalent of 3 cities the size of Southampton, from predominantly third world countries. We used to be able to absorb other cultures over time and integrate people into our system, these numbers make that impossible. Your point about higher wage costs is relevant but in the growing GDP of the late 80s, 90s that could be maintained. So let's grow our economy use our own people to fill the jobs, after all we do have 9m who are economically inactive. I unfortunately know quite a few who are young but choose not to work because they can get paid by the govt not to. Maybe someone needs to get tough with them and help the genuine needy.
No, I absolutely get the demographic issue and the strain that this level of net immigration puts on the country's infrastructure.
I'm less concerned about the 'cultural' issue, as I welcome the influence of other cultures and nationalities. But I get that that's just me, and that many others feel differently about this and seem to fear a 'dilution' of 'British' values, and that's fair enough.
I think probably the error of the past was in not making sure that the economic growth which the immigration from particularly the EU fed, was matched by increased housing stock and other infrastructure. Resentment at new arrivers taking scarse resources is natural.
An article has popped up on Linkedin this morning which says (I'm paraphrasing) that the strongest argument against democracy is to be found in speaking with individual voters.
The implication is that most voters will:
Vote as their parents did and they have all their lives, regardless of policies/plans/etc Focus on one or two issues rather than looking for a balance across many Be more concerned with personality than policy
Is that fair?
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Who are you voting for? on 09:58 - Jun 19 with 1134 views
Who are you voting for? on 09:33 - Jun 17 by Bridders2
Last year we saw 750,000 come into the country predominantly from third world countries, as a net figure. The gross figure was 1.2 Million !!! If you say average 2 people per property to house that many people you are looking at 375,000 homes needed. On top of that we have 150,000 illegal migrants waiting to be processed. We are building about 200,000 homes a year for the population we already have, so cannot possibly accommodate these extra numbers. We've increased our population by 10 million since 2000 and we wonder why people can't find a dentist, the NHS is on it's knees, people wait years for housing, house prices are sky high, schools are full up, roads are gridlocked etc etc. Labour started the mass immigration policy under Blair because they assumed all immigrants would vote Labour and the Conservatives assumed it would increase GDP, infact GDP per head falls, so we are all worse off. So is it any wonder that people are looking to Reform to get immigration back to 80's and early 90's levels.
Brexit is responsible for the big increase in illegal immigration, not Tony Blair. Whilst illegal immigration into the UK has increased massively since Brexit, in the same period it has decreased in the EU. The agreement in the EU that asylum seekers are sent back to the first country where they entered the EU, most often in Eastern Europe, where they are then pushed over the border back out of the EU altogether, means that the UK is now seen as the safest option for avoiding being sent back, and when interviewed as to why they leave France to come to the UK, that's what they will tell you.
Both Illegal immigration (and net migration, which is more than twice as high now as it was under Blair) were decreasing significantly in Blair's final year as PM after he did the following:
Immigration, Asylum, and Nationality (IAN) Act Parliamentary Act 2006 Mainly focused on immigration (rather than asylum), it included restrictions on appeal rights, sanctions on employers of unauthorized labor, and a tightening of citizenship rules.
Fair, Effective, Transparent and Trusted: Rebuilding Confidence in Our Immigration System Reform Strategy 2006 Created the arm's-length Border and Immigration Agency, which replaced the Immigration and Nationality Directorate on April 2, 2007.
Enforcing the Rules: A Strategy to Ensure and Enforce Compliance with Our Immigration Laws Policy Strategy 2007 Called for secure border control built on biometric visas and greater checks.
UK Borders Bill Parliamentary Bill 2007 Proposes police powers for immigration officers and a requirement that foreign nationals must have a Biometric Immigration Document (BID).
PS I'm not a fan of Tony Blair and I didn't vote for him but he was a lot more effective at controlling illegal immigration than Johnson, Truss or Sunak have been. Probably the worst culprit of the lot was Farage for his promotion of Brexit, which has caused the biggest increase in illegal immigration in our history.
I'm not really close tot he arguments on immigration but a quick internet search seems to indicate that in the year to June 2023 (or perhaps December 2023, a bit unclear), legal immigrants t the UK were around 685,000. What are called "irregular" immigrants perhaps around 58,000. So say 8% of total immigration is "irregular".
There are around 68m people in the UK. If the irregular immigrants continue at the above number, in ten years time they will be 0.008% of the population.
So we have another example of what is at the end of the day a very small minority making huge political headlines.
I'm going to suggest that there are more important things to concern us.
The NHS. The sorry state of policing in the UK. The lack of investment in UK businesses. Potholes in our roads. The bankruptcy of local councils. The wasted billions on high speed rail.
However the red tops love to keep picking away at immigration because they know that it excites passions and allows them to alternately praise or condemn politicians, especially those who put what is a small problem front and centre of their political agenda.
The immigration system is broken and sending people to the middle of Africa is not the answer. The answer is also not a system that cherry picks the best and brightest of other countries and allows them entry.
Part of the answer may be a requirement to show that if you wish to be in the UK you need to be financially self supporting (i.e. have a job) or be here for education you are paying for (and are required to leave at the end of the study unless you have a job) and are limited on how many "family" you can bring here.
As I said however, politics seems to be about which minorities can shout the loudest, preferably with a red top stirring up trouble for the sake of sales. That's quite sad.
Thankfully I am about to go overseas on business for a few weeks and will miss the rest of the increasingly rabid discussions (having voted by post).
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Who are you voting for on 12:42 - Jun 19 with 1054 views
Who are you voting for? on 11:49 - Jun 19 by saint901
I'm not really close tot he arguments on immigration but a quick internet search seems to indicate that in the year to June 2023 (or perhaps December 2023, a bit unclear), legal immigrants t the UK were around 685,000. What are called "irregular" immigrants perhaps around 58,000. So say 8% of total immigration is "irregular".
There are around 68m people in the UK. If the irregular immigrants continue at the above number, in ten years time they will be 0.008% of the population.
So we have another example of what is at the end of the day a very small minority making huge political headlines.
I'm going to suggest that there are more important things to concern us.
The NHS. The sorry state of policing in the UK. The lack of investment in UK businesses. Potholes in our roads. The bankruptcy of local councils. The wasted billions on high speed rail.
However the red tops love to keep picking away at immigration because they know that it excites passions and allows them to alternately praise or condemn politicians, especially those who put what is a small problem front and centre of their political agenda.
The immigration system is broken and sending people to the middle of Africa is not the answer. The answer is also not a system that cherry picks the best and brightest of other countries and allows them entry.
Part of the answer may be a requirement to show that if you wish to be in the UK you need to be financially self supporting (i.e. have a job) or be here for education you are paying for (and are required to leave at the end of the study unless you have a job) and are limited on how many "family" you can bring here.
As I said however, politics seems to be about which minorities can shout the loudest, preferably with a red top stirring up trouble for the sake of sales. That's quite sad.
Thankfully I am about to go overseas on business for a few weeks and will miss the rest of the increasingly rabid discussions (having voted by post).
What the Red Tops also don’t tell us saint901 is that at the end of December 2023 there were 128786 asylum seekers waiting to have their claim for citizenship heard. 65% of that figure had been waiting more than 6 months.
Yet another example to add to your list of things that are important, not forgetting of course a failing judiciary system where I understand that it’s not unusual for rape victims to have to wait 3 years before their case is put before the courts.
I came across this on the Integrity Project website:
"These are good times for the hypocrite, the spineless, the shallow, the venal; for the zealot, the fanatic, the freak, and the fool.
"Wherever we look – in literature, in history, in the newspaper, to say nothing of closer to home – we find excellent examples of hypocrisy, corruption, plagiarism, fabrication, selling out and compromise. But then there are also the rarer cases of integrity maintained under extraordinary circumstances, but at the cost of all the niceties of social life."
When you judge which party to vote for you may want to consider the above!
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