| Completely Inept McNulty 16:54 - Apr 15 with 37692 views | Barrowdale |
Hang your head in shame. Gave them the first by your insistance that we should play from the back when we aren’t anywhere near hood enough. Even worse is that you don’t see it and continue repeating the madness. The fans dont want it, clearly the players dont but hey ho.
No attack, no shots, negative back passing and a lack of a game plan. Subs too late again, shall I go on.
Only positive is at least we know that you are not our nxt manager.
What a pathetic spineless way to send us to non league. Absoluted devastated at that performance. |  | | |  |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:05 - Apr 17 with 1616 views | 442Dale |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:00 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
Also Notts County are playing possession football from the back in the national league this season. Leyton Orient, Bradford, Mansfield, Salford this season and Forest Green last season. So you point on not being able to do it in these leagues is nonsense. |
Thank you. Bradford play passing football, but not in dangerous areas. Mansfield similar. That’s going off watching the last two games. Orient seemed very Dale-2010 like when we played them, great team who play effective, passing football. Solid at the back.
Forest Green were similar with a really energetic midfield and two good strikers.
Can’t comment on Notts as haven’t seen them. Have posted about Salford.
There’s a difference between good football and unnecessary passing football. [Post edited 17 Apr 2023 21:07]
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:08 - Apr 17 with 1592 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 20:52 - Apr 17 by TalkingSutty |
That's a load of rubbish. The first goal was a free header from a set piece but why was the free kick conceded? It was conceded because Taylor made a error while playing it out from the back, he then dived in and conceded the free kick and we let them score from a free header...three very poor examples of defending that all started from playing it out from the back
'There is no difference between giving the ball away around your own area than there is higher up the pitch'...are you on a wind up? That's one of the most ridiculous observations I've ever seen on this forum. |
With this logic if you give the ball away anywhere in the pitch and it leads to set piece which leads to a goal that is the fault of the goal. The fault of the goal is that we didn’t defend the set piece not the fact we have the ball away which happens 100s times in a match.
Regardless of where you give the ball away you have to defend that situation. Lloyd gave the ball away next to Walsall box for their 2nd goal. So by that logic we shouldn’t pass the ball next to Bradfords box. |  | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:14 - Apr 17 with 1557 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:05 - Apr 17 by 442Dale |
Thank you. Bradford play passing football, but not in dangerous areas. Mansfield similar. That’s going off watching the last two games. Orient seemed very Dale-2010 like when we played them, great team who play effective, passing football. Solid at the back.
Forest Green were similar with a really energetic midfield and two good strikers.
Can’t comment on Notts as haven’t seen them. Have posted about Salford.
There’s a difference between good football and unnecessary passing football. [Post edited 17 Apr 2023 21:07]
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Bradford played from their goal keeper to their CBs every time, we won the ball off them two or 3 times and could have scored 1st half.
Mansfield were the same but we didn’t win the ball. Forest green were total football. Very good to watch.
I think we do play forward quickly with possession, the 1st time Rod had the ball Saturday we nearly got through Bradford in 3 passes on the floor.
Salford may have Smith playing but they still play possession football, other teams in the league from memory include Swindon (arguably the most entertaining game we have had this season) who also got promoted under Leyton orients wellens
Barrow have a low budget but play possession football, Crewe we’re very good at it under Artell a few years ago in league 2 as were Plymouth the same season. | | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:16 - Apr 17 with 1540 views | TalkingSutty |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:08 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
With this logic if you give the ball away anywhere in the pitch and it leads to set piece which leads to a goal that is the fault of the goal. The fault of the goal is that we didn’t defend the set piece not the fact we have the ball away which happens 100s times in a match.
Regardless of where you give the ball away you have to defend that situation. Lloyd gave the ball away next to Walsall box for their 2nd goal. So by that logic we shouldn’t pass the ball next to Bradfords box. |
It's about percentages though, the more you cock up around your own penalty area the more chance you have of conceding...less chance if you concede fouls on other areas of the pitch. Come on it's kids stuff this, the basics of football.
There are areas of the pitch where you play your football and areas where you don't. Read Brian Cloughs book you might learn something. |  | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:18 - Apr 17 with 1521 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:05 - Apr 17 by 442Dale |
Thank you. Bradford play passing football, but not in dangerous areas. Mansfield similar. That’s going off watching the last two games. Orient seemed very Dale-2010 like when we played them, great team who play effective, passing football. Solid at the back.
Forest Green were similar with a really energetic midfield and two good strikers.
Can’t comment on Notts as haven’t seen them. Have posted about Salford.
There’s a difference between good football and unnecessary passing football. [Post edited 17 Apr 2023 21:07]
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Regarding Notts I’ve seen them play multiple times this season and they play the same each week regardless of opponent. And play attacking possession football.
It can be done at all levels for me. Just requires patience and persistence. Like I said we played the best football we’ve seen under Keith and that was possession based | | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:23 - Apr 17 with 1481 views | Rodingdale |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:02 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
The question was about giving the ball away in the our own third. Lloyd was next to Bradfords box when he passed the ball. So no it’s not the same |
I stand corrected, looking back on the tv your bang on - I think in my mind watching live it just looked a weird risky pass in the ‘footballing in non footballing areas’ category.
Mind you going back to the Walsall thread there were lots of comments re the tactics of playing it out at the back. So I don’t think it’s fair to say criticism is only levelled when we lose. | | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:25 - Apr 17 with 1476 views | 442Dale |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:14 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
Bradford played from their goal keeper to their CBs every time, we won the ball off them two or 3 times and could have scored 1st half.
Mansfield were the same but we didn’t win the ball. Forest green were total football. Very good to watch.
I think we do play forward quickly with possession, the 1st time Rod had the ball Saturday we nearly got through Bradford in 3 passes on the floor.
Salford may have Smith playing but they still play possession football, other teams in the league from memory include Swindon (arguably the most entertaining game we have had this season) who also got promoted under Leyton orients wellens
Barrow have a low budget but play possession football, Crewe we’re very good at it under Artell a few years ago in league 2 as were Plymouth the same season. |
Nobody is saying we don’t want our team to play possession football or passing football. The best Dale teams always have. It has to be effective. Giving the ball to Dawson to find O’Grady or pass it to Wiseman to carry forward type football.
That’s why I remember Bradford and Mansfield utilising Cook and Akins when they were not wanting to get into trouble, Mansfield full backs looked forward for example.. That Bradford made those errors is illustrative of the point. Would Hughes have accepted this if we’d scored?
We’ll agree to disagree on how other teams are viewed but Rochdale do not suit either playing goal kicks inside our own penalty area or across our own back line. We look ok going into midfield and then wide or forward. Those were the best Keith Hill teams. The best teams we’ve ever seen. | |
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:26 - Apr 17 with 1460 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:16 - Apr 17 by TalkingSutty |
It's about percentages though, the more you cock up around your own penalty area the more chance you have of conceding...less chance if you concede fouls on other areas of the pitch. Come on it's kids stuff this, the basics of football.
There are areas of the pitch where you play your football and areas where you don't. Read Brian Cloughs book you might learn something. |
Percentages football is exactly that. You are playing long football and the percentage of you retaining the ball is less.
Playing the ball to feet increases the percentage of your retaining the ball. Playing to someone’s head decreases it. Kicking the ball up the pitch to an area where there is a lot of players reduces the percentage of retaining the ball. Passing the ball to an area where the is less players and more space increases the percentage of keeping the ball. The idea of passing the ball short is to bring more players to the ball so there are less players near the opposition goal so when you play the ball to that area of the pitch it’s easier to score. Football is an invasion game, it is easier to invade spaces if there’s less players within those areas.
Teams that have more possession in games statistically win more games. We have one of the lowest possession stats and pass accuracy stats in the league. Bentleys percentage football probably has a lot to do with this.
And regarding Brian Clough his teams were renowned for keeping the ball. | | | |
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:26 - Apr 17 with 1459 views | 442Dale |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:18 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
Regarding Notts I’ve seen them play multiple times this season and they play the same each week regardless of opponent. And play attacking possession football.
It can be done at all levels for me. Just requires patience and persistence. Like I said we played the best football we’ve seen under Keith and that was possession based |
Yes! That’s the point. But we never played it in dangerous areas.
That’s why that Tranmere 2011 game is worth a watch. | |
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:31 - Apr 17 with 1432 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:26 - Apr 17 by 442Dale |
Yes! That’s the point. But we never played it in dangerous areas.
That’s why that Tranmere 2011 game is worth a watch. |
It all depends on what you determine as dangerous. The Walsall 2nd goal for example was given away on the edge of Walsall box. We had two players behind the ball and they countered.
When we give the ball away from playing in our own third we have 2 CBs, 2Cms and 2 FBs near to the ball. So is that more or less of a risk?
Respectfully Football has moved on since 2011 too especially English football as the shown by the number of teams playing a similar way to McNulty in our own league. | | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:31 - Apr 17 with 1431 views | TVOS1907 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:08 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
With this logic if you give the ball away anywhere in the pitch and it leads to set piece which leads to a goal that is the fault of the goal. The fault of the goal is that we didn’t defend the set piece not the fact we have the ball away which happens 100s times in a match.
Regardless of where you give the ball away you have to defend that situation. Lloyd gave the ball away next to Walsall box for their 2nd goal. So by that logic we shouldn’t pass the ball next to Bradfords box. |
Lloyd wasn't next to Walsall's penalty area when he gave the ball away. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:32 - Apr 17 with 1423 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:31 - Apr 17 by TVOS1907 |
Lloyd wasn't next to Walsall's penalty area when he gave the ball away. |
Have a watch back, I’d say he was in the final third of the pitch which I’d class as next to the walsall box | | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:33 - Apr 17 with 1417 views | TVOS1907 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:31 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
It all depends on what you determine as dangerous. The Walsall 2nd goal for example was given away on the edge of Walsall box. We had two players behind the ball and they countered.
When we give the ball away from playing in our own third we have 2 CBs, 2Cms and 2 FBs near to the ball. So is that more or less of a risk?
Respectfully Football has moved on since 2011 too especially English football as the shown by the number of teams playing a similar way to McNulty in our own league. |
The ball wasn't given away on the edge of Walsall's penalty area. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:34 - Apr 17 with 1407 views | TVOS1907 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:32 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
Have a watch back, I’d say he was in the final third of the pitch which I’d class as next to the walsall box |
I've just watched it back; he wasn't next to the penalty area. If anything, he was closer to the touchline than the penalty area.
I've also never seen any boxes on a football pitch. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:34 - Apr 17 with 1408 views | TalkingSutty |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:18 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
Regarding Notts I’ve seen them play multiple times this season and they play the same each week regardless of opponent. And play attacking possession football.
It can be done at all levels for me. Just requires patience and persistence. Like I said we played the best football we’ve seen under Keith and that was possession based |
It wasn't always possession based under Hill though. As pointed out before, we used to hit the long ball up to O'Grady and then play off him in our opponents half. The tactics on Saturday killed us from the moment we kicked off and that was the caretaker managers fault. Kelly and Brierley were playing far too deep for a start so any creativity they have was negated straight away. Keeping possession along the back line and playing it out of defence just resulted in us giving the ball away, passing it back to the goalkeeper or lumping it forward to nobody in particular. It also led to our first goal, no matter how you might like to dismiss that notion. It was a shambles from start to finish and a tactical disaster by a manager who completely over thought the tactics and tried to be clever. It was Bradford easiest game of the season. | | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:35 - Apr 17 with 1403 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:25 - Apr 17 by 442Dale |
Nobody is saying we don’t want our team to play possession football or passing football. The best Dale teams always have. It has to be effective. Giving the ball to Dawson to find O’Grady or pass it to Wiseman to carry forward type football.
That’s why I remember Bradford and Mansfield utilising Cook and Akins when they were not wanting to get into trouble, Mansfield full backs looked forward for example.. That Bradford made those errors is illustrative of the point. Would Hughes have accepted this if we’d scored?
We’ll agree to disagree on how other teams are viewed but Rochdale do not suit either playing goal kicks inside our own penalty area or across our own back line. We look ok going into midfield and then wide or forward. Those were the best Keith Hill teams. The best teams we’ve ever seen. |
I genuinely think this is what this team is trying to achieve, they are playing the shorter passes to play forward quickly once the opponent is closing them down, it’s just being done in a different way to previous teams due to different personal | | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:36 - Apr 17 with 1396 views | TVOS1907 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:34 - Apr 17 by TalkingSutty |
It wasn't always possession based under Hill though. As pointed out before, we used to hit the long ball up to O'Grady and then play off him in our opponents half. The tactics on Saturday killed us from the moment we kicked off and that was the caretaker managers fault. Kelly and Brierley were playing far too deep for a start so any creativity they have was negated straight away. Keeping possession along the back line and playing it out of defence just resulted in us giving the ball away, passing it back to the goalkeeper or lumping it forward to nobody in particular. It also led to our first goal, no matter how you might like to dismiss that notion. It was a shambles from start to finish and a tactical disaster by a manager who completely over thought the tactics and tried to be clever. It was Bradford easiest game of the season. |
Hill's teams also didn't pi$$ about passing the ball between Fielding/Heaton, Dawson and Stanton, before deciding a goal might be helpful. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:40 - Apr 17 with 1383 views | TalkingSutty |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:26 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
Percentages football is exactly that. You are playing long football and the percentage of you retaining the ball is less.
Playing the ball to feet increases the percentage of your retaining the ball. Playing to someone’s head decreases it. Kicking the ball up the pitch to an area where there is a lot of players reduces the percentage of retaining the ball. Passing the ball to an area where the is less players and more space increases the percentage of keeping the ball. The idea of passing the ball short is to bring more players to the ball so there are less players near the opposition goal so when you play the ball to that area of the pitch it’s easier to score. Football is an invasion game, it is easier to invade spaces if there’s less players within those areas.
Teams that have more possession in games statistically win more games. We have one of the lowest possession stats and pass accuracy stats in the league. Bentleys percentage football probably has a lot to do with this.
And regarding Brian Clough his teams were renowned for keeping the ball. |
If what you are saying about percentage stats is correct, why did BBM relegate us? He relegated us with a decent L1 team also, contrary to what you have suggested. We played some of the worst football ever seen at Spotland that season and had the worse run of home results in our history. So much for playing it out from the back and the possession stats rubbish. That's modern coaches for you though, complicating a very simple game and thinking they are being clever. [Post edited 17 Apr 2023 21:49]
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:41 - Apr 17 with 1376 views | 442Dale |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:31 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
It all depends on what you determine as dangerous. The Walsall 2nd goal for example was given away on the edge of Walsall box. We had two players behind the ball and they countered.
When we give the ball away from playing in our own third we have 2 CBs, 2Cms and 2 FBs near to the ball. So is that more or less of a risk?
Respectfully Football has moved on since 2011 too especially English football as the shown by the number of teams playing a similar way to McNulty in our own league. |
And we’ve looked at our most effective in recent years, in “poor” seasons under BBM and Stockdale, playing effective passing football in the opponents half rather than in our last third.
This is not about playing hoofball or “gerrit forward” tactics. It’s about playing a way players are comfortable with. For every Man City (who themselves have reinvented their style to be more progressive with Haaland and Stones new role) there’s a Liverpool who were more dynamic at their best. However, that’s elite football and I’d rather our manager looks at what we have and finds an entertaining, successful way to play. | |
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:42 - Apr 17 with 1369 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:34 - Apr 17 by TalkingSutty |
It wasn't always possession based under Hill though. As pointed out before, we used to hit the long ball up to O'Grady and then play off him in our opponents half. The tactics on Saturday killed us from the moment we kicked off and that was the caretaker managers fault. Kelly and Brierley were playing far too deep for a start so any creativity they have was negated straight away. Keeping possession along the back line and playing it out of defence just resulted in us giving the ball away, passing it back to the goalkeeper or lumping it forward to nobody in particular. It also led to our first goal, no matter how you might like to dismiss that notion. It was a shambles from start to finish and a tactical disaster by a manager who completely over thought the tactics and tried to be clever. It was Bradford easiest game of the season. |
Which halve did we create the better chances in? For me the 1st half
Why did Bradford change in the 2nd half and sit off us and not press which they did for the whole of the 1st half even after they scored?
The play is risky, but passing the ball anywhere is risky. And for me it’s far more exciting than watching the drag long ball stuff which leads to lost possession regardless.
When the team does get it right which happened on Saturday just not as often as it has previously it’s so entertaining.
The argument for me is a change in how we do better against a team we sit off us rather than a team that press us.
Again regarding the SET PiIECE goal we conceded. If you concede a set piece and goal for losing the ball in the opposition penalty area are you blaming the lost possession or the fact the team didn’t defend the set play? You haven’t answered this question | | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:42 - Apr 17 with 1363 views | 442Dale |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:36 - Apr 17 by TVOS1907 |
Hill's teams also didn't pi$$ about passing the ball between Fielding/Heaton, Dawson and Stanton, before deciding a goal might be helpful. |
The mere thought of someone asking Nathan Stanton to come and stand in the six yard box when we’ve got a goal kick is amusing. | |
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:50 - Apr 17 with 1330 views | TVOS1907 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:42 - Apr 17 by irishdale2022 |
Which halve did we create the better chances in? For me the 1st half
Why did Bradford change in the 2nd half and sit off us and not press which they did for the whole of the 1st half even after they scored?
The play is risky, but passing the ball anywhere is risky. And for me it’s far more exciting than watching the drag long ball stuff which leads to lost possession regardless.
When the team does get it right which happened on Saturday just not as often as it has previously it’s so entertaining.
The argument for me is a change in how we do better against a team we sit off us rather than a team that press us.
Again regarding the SET PiIECE goal we conceded. If you concede a set piece and goal for losing the ball in the opposition penalty area are you blaming the lost possession or the fact the team didn’t defend the set play? You haven’t answered this question |
We didn't defend the set play which came about through losing the ball by trying to play a way in which the player involved isn't really capable of playing. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:50 - Apr 17 with 1331 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:36 - Apr 17 by TVOS1907 |
Hill's teams also didn't pi$$ about passing the ball between Fielding/Heaton, Dawson and Stanton, before deciding a goal might be helpful. |
I can guarantee that at some point one of those 4 players lost the ball while trying to play in their own half and conceded a goal or chance.
It’s football. It happens | | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:52 - Apr 17 with 1318 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:40 - Apr 17 by TalkingSutty |
If what you are saying about percentage stats is correct, why did BBM relegate us? He relegated us with a decent L1 team also, contrary to what you have suggested. We played some of the worst football ever seen at Spotland that season and had the worse run of home results in our history. So much for playing it out from the back and the possession stats rubbish. That's modern coaches for you though, complicating a very simple game and thinking they are being clever. [Post edited 17 Apr 2023 21:49]
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I’d imagine the people who get to the top of an elite sport and end up coaching within one of 92 league clubs are quite intelligent people in the main. Especially those that try to play it in a more complicated way and try to improve their players doing it | | | |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:54 - Apr 17 with 1308 views | irishdale2022 |
| Completely Inept McNulty on 21:41 - Apr 17 by 442Dale |
And we’ve looked at our most effective in recent years, in “poor” seasons under BBM and Stockdale, playing effective passing football in the opponents half rather than in our last third.
This is not about playing hoofball or “gerrit forward” tactics. It’s about playing a way players are comfortable with. For every Man City (who themselves have reinvented their style to be more progressive with Haaland and Stones new role) there’s a Liverpool who were more dynamic at their best. However, that’s elite football and I’d rather our manager looks at what we have and finds an entertaining, successful way to play. |
BBM never changed the way he played it was always the same. The more effective games you speak of are merely the games when the tactics worked to their best | | | |
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