Chairman's Statement 17:02 - Jan 5 with 45932 views | HullDale | | | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 09:32 - Jan 20 with 3742 views | Dalenet |
Chairman's Statement on 19:03 - Jan 19 by BillyRudd | I stand suitably chastised 442. |
Don't be. You and lots of other posters should be able to express opinions and views on here. Just because your view doesn't match the views of the three or four dominant posters doesn't mean it isn't valid. It's not you that creates the divide. And we should all remember that 97% of our fan base don't post on here and the dominant posters can't possibly reflect what so many think. Listening to people in the stands reflect so much of what you say. Keep posting | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 10:32 - Jan 20 with 3579 views | A_Newby |
This is a good read from Chris and I agree with much of his analysis about the decline on the pitch following the departure of Chris Dunphy. I do think though that the decline started a season earlier with the departure of Colin Garlick as CEO. This started the spate of CEO comings and goings that started with Russ Green and ended in David Bottomley. By the way Colin won last year's league 2 CEO of the year award. https://www.port-vale.co.uk/news/2022/april/port-vales-colin-garlick-named-leagu | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 10:35 - Jan 20 with 3570 views | 442Dale |
Chairman's Statement on 09:32 - Jan 20 by Dalenet | Don't be. You and lots of other posters should be able to express opinions and views on here. Just because your view doesn't match the views of the three or four dominant posters doesn't mean it isn't valid. It's not you that creates the divide. And we should all remember that 97% of our fan base don't post on here and the dominant posters can't possibly reflect what so many think. Listening to people in the stands reflect so much of what you say. Keep posting |
And it wasn’t chastising. The differing opinions are important. Just personally believe there’s no need to create divides based on that, but there is indeed a lot of valid concern. Plus we were agreeing on Fitzo’s article! | |
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Chairman's Statement on 10:42 - Jan 20 with 3550 views | DaleiLama |
Chairman's Statement on 10:32 - Jan 20 by A_Newby | This is a good read from Chris and I agree with much of his analysis about the decline on the pitch following the departure of Chris Dunphy. I do think though that the decline started a season earlier with the departure of Colin Garlick as CEO. This started the spate of CEO comings and goings that started with Russ Green and ended in David Bottomley. By the way Colin won last year's league 2 CEO of the year award. https://www.port-vale.co.uk/news/2022/april/port-vales-colin-garlick-named-leagu |
Whilst the Russ Green appointment back-fired due to what later surfaced, his replacement, James Mason, was widely very highly regarded. I'd contend that we temporarily recovered from Russ Green, but then JM was usurped and the Chairman was effectively "controlled" (think Grima Wormtongue/King Theoden for any LoTR fans). Then the wheels came off spectacularly. | |
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Chairman's Statement on 10:43 - Jan 20 with 3550 views | BillyRudd |
Chairman's Statement on 09:32 - Jan 20 by Dalenet | Don't be. You and lots of other posters should be able to express opinions and views on here. Just because your view doesn't match the views of the three or four dominant posters doesn't mean it isn't valid. It's not you that creates the divide. And we should all remember that 97% of our fan base don't post on here and the dominant posters can't possibly reflect what so many think. Listening to people in the stands reflect so much of what you say. Keep posting |
Thanks for that Dalenet. Having been told I was "brainless, facile for using emojjis and told to f. off with a V for a post that actually did,nt imply any personal critiscism of SG. I did think it a bit rich to be admonished for being divisive. Fortunately having worked on shop floors most of my working life, where the crack was fierce and no prisoners taken, I personally have a skin like a rhino and so its all part of lifes rich tapestry for me. However I can see why it would put some people off from expressing their views and opinions, especially if its against the vibe of the board. For the edification of the younger element a "shop floor" is not the Co-op or Primark its a mill or factory where as a nation we actually used to make things. I still think that inspite of what we have had to endure since and including BBM,s latter tenure, we are still a pretty mild bunch compared to a lot of other clubs fanbases. Anyway, better be off and await the Resident Pedants arrival but will include an emojji just for devilment. Up the Dale | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 10:46 - Jan 20 with 3532 views | fitzochris |
Chairman's Statement on 10:32 - Jan 20 by A_Newby | This is a good read from Chris and I agree with much of his analysis about the decline on the pitch following the departure of Chris Dunphy. I do think though that the decline started a season earlier with the departure of Colin Garlick as CEO. This started the spate of CEO comings and goings that started with Russ Green and ended in David Bottomley. By the way Colin won last year's league 2 CEO of the year award. https://www.port-vale.co.uk/news/2022/april/port-vales-colin-garlick-named-leagu |
James Mason was, and still is by those who worked with him, a highly-regarded and competent CEO. Once he was ousted, the train began to derail. [Post edited 20 Jan 2023 10:51]
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Chairman's Statement on 12:00 - Jan 20 with 3365 views | 49thseason |
Chairman's Statement on 07:12 - Jan 20 by kel | Cheers mate. Another shareholder has contacted me to say they haven’t had it either. Much like the club at the moment, I don’t really think I can be arsed with the hassle of contacting them to sort it. When I didn’t receive the AGM pack I had to send a picture of my share certificate to prove I was a shareholder ffs! This is basic stuff that shouldn’t require chasing. |
Kel, thats one of the most damning things I have read about the club in a long time. A while ago I questioned if the Club has a CRM system in place, it would seem they don't , either that or noone is charged with keeping it up to date. They give the impression that everyone is working hard but from here it looks like there is no real direction or purpose to what is being done. Where there is no managerial guidance, the "work" naturally fills the time available and a pleasant daily routine evolves and the difficult things like cold calling potential sponsors or developing new income streams simply gets shelved. Does anyone imagine they have started to plan the new Gold Bond yet? (After all its months away) but actually it needs to be ready in just 9 months. Is there even an outline plan, how long will it take to get the legal stuff sorted? Who is going to contact potential collectors, what are the financial targets? What software will be needed? What will it cost to initiate? Like just about everything else at the COA will it be cobbled together at the last minute, fail and then the "I told you so" brigade will be out in force? I understand your frustration. | | | | Login to get fewer ads
Chairman's Statement on 12:09 - Jan 20 with 3332 views | HullDale |
Chairman's Statement on 12:00 - Jan 20 by 49thseason | Kel, thats one of the most damning things I have read about the club in a long time. A while ago I questioned if the Club has a CRM system in place, it would seem they don't , either that or noone is charged with keeping it up to date. They give the impression that everyone is working hard but from here it looks like there is no real direction or purpose to what is being done. Where there is no managerial guidance, the "work" naturally fills the time available and a pleasant daily routine evolves and the difficult things like cold calling potential sponsors or developing new income streams simply gets shelved. Does anyone imagine they have started to plan the new Gold Bond yet? (After all its months away) but actually it needs to be ready in just 9 months. Is there even an outline plan, how long will it take to get the legal stuff sorted? Who is going to contact potential collectors, what are the financial targets? What software will be needed? What will it cost to initiate? Like just about everything else at the COA will it be cobbled together at the last minute, fail and then the "I told you so" brigade will be out in force? I understand your frustration. |
I know of several people now who have offered support to the club in one guise or another, including emails to directors with clear ideas and offers of support. There are expertise on offer - but they need to get to the right people to manage through. Advertising offers of support on a shareholder email is fine, but do people really think going direct to the commercial employees with feedback / criticism / ideas is the right thing to do? "Hi Board of Directors, we've had seventeen supporters email in highlighting gaps in our commercial operation. As a result, we know we need to do X, Y, Z" That is turkeys voting for Christmas. The most damning indictment is that, in some cases, the directors haven't even offered a courtesy 'thanks for your email' response. A 'thanks but no thanks' is better than no response at all. We're in serious trouble when apathy sets in amongst a previously engaged fanbase. I fear we are close. | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 12:17 - Jan 20 with 3286 views | EllDale |
Chairman's Statement on 10:46 - Jan 20 by fitzochris | James Mason was, and still is by those who worked with him, a highly-regarded and competent CEO. Once he was ousted, the train began to derail. [Post edited 20 Jan 2023 10:51]
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As I understood it Colin Garlick resigned for personal reasons as the travelling was taking it's toll. Russ Green was recruited to try and replicate the success that he'd had at Hartlepool in boosting season ticket sales but circumstances then overtook him. James Mason then came in after a successful spell at Bradford City but that tenure was short lived before a coup saw him off? | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 12:45 - Jan 20 with 3185 views | D_Alien |
Chairman's Statement on 09:32 - Jan 20 by Dalenet | Don't be. You and lots of other posters should be able to express opinions and views on here. Just because your view doesn't match the views of the three or four dominant posters doesn't mean it isn't valid. It's not you that creates the divide. And we should all remember that 97% of our fan base don't post on here and the dominant posters can't possibly reflect what so many think. Listening to people in the stands reflect so much of what you say. Keep posting |
The view i was challenging was that it wasn't possible for the club to be both trying its damnedest to improve matters on the pitch whilst also planning for the future with regard to training facilities Instead of trying to come across as "someone who listens to people in the stands", enlighten us about what is wrong with challenging that view, since it was, and remains, absolute nonsense. In fact, subsequent comms from the club have proven it to be nonsense As it happens, it was first put forward by a poster who i sometimes disagree with on here, which simply demonstrates that when someone posts a valid opinion it gets my support; whereas someone posting unfair shite doesn't If you can successfully answer my point, i'll support that too [Post edited 20 Jan 2023 12:46]
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Chairman's Statement on 13:16 - Jan 20 with 3079 views | 442Dale |
Chairman's Statement on 10:58 - Jan 20 by BillyRudd | For the sake of clarity, none of the banter aimed at you 442. Up the Dale [Post edited 20 Jan 2023 10:59]
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Oh feel free! Think what I’m trying to say is not let’s get into pointless back and forths which distract from good debates. | |
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Chairman's Statement on 13:35 - Jan 20 with 3024 views | 442Dale |
Chairman's Statement on 10:32 - Jan 20 by A_Newby | This is a good read from Chris and I agree with much of his analysis about the decline on the pitch following the departure of Chris Dunphy. I do think though that the decline started a season earlier with the departure of Colin Garlick as CEO. This started the spate of CEO comings and goings that started with Russ Green and ended in David Bottomley. By the way Colin won last year's league 2 CEO of the year award. https://www.port-vale.co.uk/news/2022/april/port-vales-colin-garlick-named-leagu |
Garlick was perfect within our model that developed players which we then sold and ensured continued to make us money down the line. Obviously excellent on the football side and the club benefited for his presence. Would you agree that’s what we’re missing now in terms of football business sense? A criticism that was often aimed his way was that so many other aspects of the club didn’t move forward, we really didn’t capitalise off the pitch when we were successful as loads will point out. Commercially we have failed consistently for far too long making the same mistakes, plenty of people who have been at the club should accept that. | |
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Chairman's Statement on 14:02 - Jan 20 with 2961 views | Brierls |
Chairman's Statement on 10:43 - Jan 20 by BillyRudd | Thanks for that Dalenet. Having been told I was "brainless, facile for using emojjis and told to f. off with a V for a post that actually did,nt imply any personal critiscism of SG. I did think it a bit rich to be admonished for being divisive. Fortunately having worked on shop floors most of my working life, where the crack was fierce and no prisoners taken, I personally have a skin like a rhino and so its all part of lifes rich tapestry for me. However I can see why it would put some people off from expressing their views and opinions, especially if its against the vibe of the board. For the edification of the younger element a "shop floor" is not the Co-op or Primark its a mill or factory where as a nation we actually used to make things. I still think that inspite of what we have had to endure since and including BBM,s latter tenure, we are still a pretty mild bunch compared to a lot of other clubs fanbases. Anyway, better be off and await the Resident Pedants arrival but will include an emojji just for devilment. Up the Dale |
I simply disagreed with what you posted and asked what more you'd like to hear. You labelled it a "bite" and passed your own comments off as banter. It's nice to see Dalenet jumping your defence, but if your response to being challenged on your view/opinion is "that's a bite, I love the craic, me", what is the point? As for the "especially if its against the vibe of the board". That must be your legendary craic because D'Alien and I very rarely agree on anything. | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 14:53 - Jan 20 with 2862 views | A_Newby |
Chairman's Statement on 12:17 - Jan 20 by EllDale | As I understood it Colin Garlick resigned for personal reasons as the travelling was taking it's toll. Russ Green was recruited to try and replicate the success that he'd had at Hartlepool in boosting season ticket sales but circumstances then overtook him. James Mason then came in after a successful spell at Bradford City but that tenure was short lived before a coup saw him off? |
Yes you are right Colin did resign for personal reasons because of the travelling. When Russ Green took over from Colin Garlick, he was indeed tasked to boost season ticket sales and he succeeded. He tried the scheme of cheaper tickets depending on number of purchases and took season ticket sales from 1200 in 2016/7 to 2500+ in the 2017/8 season. The 2017/8 season was when we played Tottenham in the FA cup and escaped relegation with the Joey Thompson goal in the last game of the season. The following season we had a "recent record" season ticket sales of 2,714 and the following season the sales were also again above 2500. In this respect Russ Green was successful. Unfortunately Russ had a problem with the EFL where he was banned from football for 12 months. The club thought they could wait this out and director Bill Goodwin took over as UNPAID CEO for several months. When Russ Green decided he had to leave the club, the board took on James Mason as consultant CEO. Bill Goodwin tried to pass on the reins to James Mason but never really managed this and he thought that James was being undermined by David Bottomley who was present on a daily basis at the club.. (From Chris Dunphy's autobiography) James Mason never got a real opportunity as the Rochdale CEO and quickly left to pursue his own business. In December 2018 David Bottomley was appointed CEO. | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 14:56 - Jan 20 with 2851 views | fitzochris |
Chairman's Statement on 14:53 - Jan 20 by A_Newby | Yes you are right Colin did resign for personal reasons because of the travelling. When Russ Green took over from Colin Garlick, he was indeed tasked to boost season ticket sales and he succeeded. He tried the scheme of cheaper tickets depending on number of purchases and took season ticket sales from 1200 in 2016/7 to 2500+ in the 2017/8 season. The 2017/8 season was when we played Tottenham in the FA cup and escaped relegation with the Joey Thompson goal in the last game of the season. The following season we had a "recent record" season ticket sales of 2,714 and the following season the sales were also again above 2500. In this respect Russ Green was successful. Unfortunately Russ had a problem with the EFL where he was banned from football for 12 months. The club thought they could wait this out and director Bill Goodwin took over as UNPAID CEO for several months. When Russ Green decided he had to leave the club, the board took on James Mason as consultant CEO. Bill Goodwin tried to pass on the reins to James Mason but never really managed this and he thought that James was being undermined by David Bottomley who was present on a daily basis at the club.. (From Chris Dunphy's autobiography) James Mason never got a real opportunity as the Rochdale CEO and quickly left to pursue his own business. In December 2018 David Bottomley was appointed CEO. |
Hmmmm, that's not how James remembers his own departure. | |
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Chairman's Statement on 15:04 - Jan 20 with 2812 views | 442Dale |
Chairman's Statement on 14:53 - Jan 20 by A_Newby | Yes you are right Colin did resign for personal reasons because of the travelling. When Russ Green took over from Colin Garlick, he was indeed tasked to boost season ticket sales and he succeeded. He tried the scheme of cheaper tickets depending on number of purchases and took season ticket sales from 1200 in 2016/7 to 2500+ in the 2017/8 season. The 2017/8 season was when we played Tottenham in the FA cup and escaped relegation with the Joey Thompson goal in the last game of the season. The following season we had a "recent record" season ticket sales of 2,714 and the following season the sales were also again above 2500. In this respect Russ Green was successful. Unfortunately Russ had a problem with the EFL where he was banned from football for 12 months. The club thought they could wait this out and director Bill Goodwin took over as UNPAID CEO for several months. When Russ Green decided he had to leave the club, the board took on James Mason as consultant CEO. Bill Goodwin tried to pass on the reins to James Mason but never really managed this and he thought that James was being undermined by David Bottomley who was present on a daily basis at the club.. (From Chris Dunphy's autobiography) James Mason never got a real opportunity as the Rochdale CEO and quickly left to pursue his own business. In December 2018 David Bottomley was appointed CEO. |
Have you links to season ticket sales figures? It’s something I always end up searching high and low for and haven’t got them saved. | |
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Chairman's Statement on 15:13 - Jan 20 with 2774 views | A_Newby |
Chairman's Statement on 15:04 - Jan 20 by 442Dale | Have you links to season ticket sales figures? It’s something I always end up searching high and low for and haven’t got them saved. |
Sorry, I don't have a set of season ticket sales. The figure of 1200 in 2016/7 to 2500+ in 2017/8 comes directly from Chris Dunphy's autobiography. The recent record figure 2,714 in 2018/19 is from a statement from Simon Gauge last year when he was trying to encourage us to buy season tickets and have sales over 2,500 again. | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 15:23 - Jan 20 with 2731 views | TVOS1907 |
Chairman's Statement on 15:13 - Jan 20 by A_Newby | Sorry, I don't have a set of season ticket sales. The figure of 1200 in 2016/7 to 2500+ in 2017/8 comes directly from Chris Dunphy's autobiography. The recent record figure 2,714 in 2018/19 is from a statement from Simon Gauge last year when he was trying to encourage us to buy season tickets and have sales over 2,500 again. |
But I bet you could find a set of season ticket sales... | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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Chairman's Statement on 15:31 - Jan 20 with 2719 views | A_Newby |
Chairman's Statement on 15:23 - Jan 20 by TVOS1907 | But I bet you could find a set of season ticket sales... |
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Chairman's Statement on 15:39 - Jan 20 with 2684 views | 49thseason | Apropos nothing in particular,only Carlisle United has a worse digital footprint to Rochdale in the EFL , based on views from around the world. | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 18:27 - Jan 20 with 2433 views | 442Dale |
Chairman's Statement on 15:13 - Jan 20 by A_Newby | Sorry, I don't have a set of season ticket sales. The figure of 1200 in 2016/7 to 2500+ in 2017/8 comes directly from Chris Dunphy's autobiography. The recent record figure 2,714 in 2018/19 is from a statement from Simon Gauge last year when he was trying to encourage us to buy season tickets and have sales over 2,500 again. |
Ah right, cheers. It would be good to know our historical records for season tickets right back through the decades as you’d hope we keep all that info. Same with impacts of cost/performances on fan numbers who pay on the day. | |
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Chairman's Statement on 07:51 - Feb 25 with 1855 views | Rodingdale | This hasn’t exactly aged well has it. Lots of interest in the club from home and abroad. ? And the admonishment of fans who’ve ‘given up’ - form since this statement: P10, W1, D2, L7. GF 8 GA 16. It’s a good job ‘those (of us) at the club certainly haven’t given up’ or goodness knows where we’d be!! I have had to go back four whole pages on the message board for this, despite it being only a few weeks ago, such is the level fan activity. That ‘disappointed’ comment was a big mistake, driving a wedge between the club and (your only) loyal customers. So it’s over to you SG, show you haven’t given up on our league existence and make the change. What you are doing clearly isn’t working. | | | |
Chairman's Statement on 08:21 - Feb 25 with 1777 views | fitzochris |
Chairman's Statement on 07:51 - Feb 25 by Rodingdale | This hasn’t exactly aged well has it. Lots of interest in the club from home and abroad. ? And the admonishment of fans who’ve ‘given up’ - form since this statement: P10, W1, D2, L7. GF 8 GA 16. It’s a good job ‘those (of us) at the club certainly haven’t given up’ or goodness knows where we’d be!! I have had to go back four whole pages on the message board for this, despite it being only a few weeks ago, such is the level fan activity. That ‘disappointed’ comment was a big mistake, driving a wedge between the club and (your only) loyal customers. So it’s over to you SG, show you haven’t given up on our league existence and make the change. What you are doing clearly isn’t working. |
I am as angry about our current predicament as anyone, but I’m not necessarily angry at any one individual or group of individuals, more the situation as a whole. Again, I don’t think anyone involved here is deliberately trying to hurt the club. It’s a group of people - Bentley - included, who are trying their best. The board members are all supporters of the club (or at least those who are the most hands on are). They may be feeling the pressure and under appreciated, but the beauty of being a supporter is that they won’t use that to hurt the club in any way. They’ve had a run of rotten luck and I really do think we underestimate just what an impact the Morton House saga has had on every element. I can’t blame them for pulling the shutters down and adopting a siege mentality. Some of the abuse some of the board have received online is bang out of order too. It’s no wonder they’ve taken to blocking out the noise. I’m not advocating for them to go. The only way I would do that is if they themselves wanted to go. Again, you couldn’t blame them if they’ve tied up a lot of their own money into shares - money they weren’t able to then put into the club. That’s their personal futures tied up in a club that’s losing money. I therefore fully understand the need to get investment in. There’s a lot of unsold shares to be bought, enough to make a single buyer a major player. But who would do that without assuming total control? The next step would be for that buyer to then buy the board members out too, this giving them their money back - a gradual takeover, if you will. This is where the board need to be true to their word. In his first interview with me, Simon spoke of this event being a possibility. However, he said if it ever happened, fans and shareholders (who are fans) would be taken on the journey with them and be fully involved in any decision. So long as that’s still the case, then that’s fine. The fan-owned model we bought into clearly hasn’t worked and, yes, the move away to Plan B could maybe have been communicated much better, but we clearly are on Plan B now and so we must support it - and scrutinise it. With all that waffle above, we arrive at our current situation. We appear so cash-strapped that we cannot afford to replace a manager who, despite his best efforts, is visibly not having a positive effect on the current squad of players (about which a whole separate post would be required). As has been said on other threads, is this case? Can we not afford to sack him? Or is an external party having a say ahead of major investment? The unthinkable option is that the board are happy with the status quo and actually do not want to remove Bentley. I don’t believe that, though. Waiting to the end of the season could be too late to take action. | |
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Chairman's Statement on 09:48 - Feb 25 with 1577 views | kel |
Chairman's Statement on 08:21 - Feb 25 by fitzochris | I am as angry about our current predicament as anyone, but I’m not necessarily angry at any one individual or group of individuals, more the situation as a whole. Again, I don’t think anyone involved here is deliberately trying to hurt the club. It’s a group of people - Bentley - included, who are trying their best. The board members are all supporters of the club (or at least those who are the most hands on are). They may be feeling the pressure and under appreciated, but the beauty of being a supporter is that they won’t use that to hurt the club in any way. They’ve had a run of rotten luck and I really do think we underestimate just what an impact the Morton House saga has had on every element. I can’t blame them for pulling the shutters down and adopting a siege mentality. Some of the abuse some of the board have received online is bang out of order too. It’s no wonder they’ve taken to blocking out the noise. I’m not advocating for them to go. The only way I would do that is if they themselves wanted to go. Again, you couldn’t blame them if they’ve tied up a lot of their own money into shares - money they weren’t able to then put into the club. That’s their personal futures tied up in a club that’s losing money. I therefore fully understand the need to get investment in. There’s a lot of unsold shares to be bought, enough to make a single buyer a major player. But who would do that without assuming total control? The next step would be for that buyer to then buy the board members out too, this giving them their money back - a gradual takeover, if you will. This is where the board need to be true to their word. In his first interview with me, Simon spoke of this event being a possibility. However, he said if it ever happened, fans and shareholders (who are fans) would be taken on the journey with them and be fully involved in any decision. So long as that’s still the case, then that’s fine. The fan-owned model we bought into clearly hasn’t worked and, yes, the move away to Plan B could maybe have been communicated much better, but we clearly are on Plan B now and so we must support it - and scrutinise it. With all that waffle above, we arrive at our current situation. We appear so cash-strapped that we cannot afford to replace a manager who, despite his best efforts, is visibly not having a positive effect on the current squad of players (about which a whole separate post would be required). As has been said on other threads, is this case? Can we not afford to sack him? Or is an external party having a say ahead of major investment? The unthinkable option is that the board are happy with the status quo and actually do not want to remove Bentley. I don’t believe that, though. Waiting to the end of the season could be too late to take action. |
“ Some of the abuse some of the board have received online is bang out of order too. It’s no wonder they’ve taken to blocking out the noise.” Some of the abuse directed at the Chairman online is absolutely disgusting and it’s at the point where police should be involved. People threatening to go to his house because they have his address is stepping way over the line and these people need to be dealt with. This is a bloke who has stepped up to the plate when nobody else would and he’s a family man ffs. Yes, decisions on certain things have been wrong but is this really what the modern Rochdale fan is about? I long for the days when we had realistic supporters who understood the board were in it for the right reasons and didn’t stoop to such disgusting behaviour. If you’re reading this then I’d like to let you know you’re a pathetic piece of shite who has clearly been dragged up. | | | |
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