| FIFA on the rocks ? 22:08 - Nov 22 with 1899 views | KeithHaynes |
Reuters and the telegraph.
The German Football Association (DFB) has warned Fifa it faces court action over the OneLove armband ban. Legal steps are being explored by the national governing body who are part of a European collective with England and Wales.
The DFB's media director Steffen Simon told German Deutschlandfunk radio described how the likes of the FA were facing "extreme blackmail" of "massive sanctions" from Fifa. England, Wales, Belgium, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany and Denmark had already said they had been put under pressure by Fifa, who had threatened to issue yellow cards.
As a result Harry Kane wore the Fifa-approved "no discrimination" band in a last minute switch on the day of the 6-2 victory over Iran.
DFB spokesman Stefan Simon told German newspaper Bild that it had lodged a case over legal validity at the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Switzerland.
“Fifa has forbidden us from using a symbol of diversity and human rights," he said. "It said the ban would be linked to massive penalties (in the nature of) sporting sanctions without concretising exactly what it meant. The DFB is keen to clarify whether Fifa’s procedure is in fact legitimate."
Fifa faces court over England OneLove armband row - England's Harry Kane with UEFA One Love armband during the UEFA Nations League Group C Match at San Siro Stadium, Italy
Kane, pictured wearing the 'OneLove' armband against Italy in August, had been due to wear it in England's opener CREDIT: PA/Nick Potts
Kane complained on Monday that the FA's decision to back down had been “taken out of my hands”.
The captains of seven World Cup nations, including Kane and Gareth Bale of Wales, had repeatedly vowed to wear the armband in support of LGBT rights in Qatar, where homosexuality is illegal But hours before kickoff, Fifa threatened "sporting sanctions" against any player who defied their rules. Two yellow cards would have seen Kane suspended for England’s final group game.
Following a morning of crisis talks, a joint statement from seven football associations said they could not put their players "in a position where they could face sporting sanctions".
"We are very frustrated by the Fifa decision, which we believe is unprecedented," the statement read.
Vertonghen hits out at Fifa over OneLove
Jan Vertonghen has claimed players are being “controlled” at the Qatar World Cup as the Belgium defender hit out at Fifa’s decision to ban teams from wearing the OneLove armband at the tournament.
Belgium were one of seven European teams whose captains were due to wear the armband — an anti-discriminatory symbol designed to promote inclusion — at the tournament in protest at Qatar’s criminalisation of homosexuality.
But Fifa’s threat to book players who wore the armband led to that alliance of national associations — Belgium, England, Wales, Germany, Denmark, Switzerland and the Netherlands — abandoning the plan.
Fifa have received widespread condemnation for their stance while the countries planning to protest have been criticised for wilting under pressure from football’s world governing body and not sticking to their guns.
Now Vertonghen has waded into the debate by questioning how Fifa could oppose a campaign that challenges discrimination.
Speaking ahead of Belgium’s opening Group F match against Canada on Wednesday, the Anderlecht and former Tottenham defender said: “It's a tough question. If it’s too late [to make a statement against discrimination], I don’t know. If you make a statement now by wearing it, that would mean punishing yourself.
“But now I’m afraid to say anything. I don't feel comfortable saying anything, and that's telling enough, that we are put under pressure.
“That’s a regrettable situation that I’ve never experienced in football and I hope I won’t experience again. We are being controlled and I don’t really like making political statements anyway, but if you can't even wear a captain’s armband with normal messages like ‘no to racism’, or ‘no to discrimination’, then hey what [can you say]?
“I shouldn’t be saying anything about it because tomorrow I want to appear at the game. It’s a pity that we have been put in this situation, and I want to leave it at that.”
Fifa faces court action over England OneLove armband ban - Belgium's defender Jan Vertonghen gives a press conference at the Qatar National Convention Center (QNCC) in Doha, on November 22
Vertonghen played for Tottenham between 2012 and 2020 CREDIT: Getty Images/Jack Guez
Hansi Flick, the Germany coach, felt they were backed into a corner by England and Holland’s decision to back out and wishes the protest had been seen through, despite the threat of sanctions.
“Together with the other countries the team wanted to take a stand,” Flick said. “Now Fifa have threatened us with sanctions and the associations that played yesterday. It was very short notice. If you want to run a campaign like this together, you should really stick to your decisions.
“There is no point now taking action, it is a shock for the team that we are not allowed to do it as it was taking a stand and showing the values we represent. The values I represent as well as the team is based on mutual respect and appreciation, that is part of life and I expect that from everybody. Some parties see it differently.
“We talked about it. A yellow card can happen. If [Joshua] Kimmich [the Germany captain] then has to leave the pitch, we have options. However it is unclear, and the mere threat of sanctions was something that was difficult for us, especially as it was so short notice ahead of the first games of England and Holland. We didn’t have time to react. The associations decided to not take anything from the players, taking the responsibility off their shoulders. I’m sorry we can’t even be here and take a stance for human rights, apparently.”
Kimmich believes wearing the armband would have sent a strong message. “I was barely involved, it was a decision of the FAs and supported by everyone — England, France and all the others,” he said.
“Generally speaking I was quite surprised as a couple of weeks ago when we discussed the armband I felt people were criticising, that people thought it was pointless and just a fig leaf but I think it is a strong stance to take.”
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 22:28 - Nov 22 with 1851 views | mart66 |
Politics should remain out of football.
Mind numbingly obvious messages on armbands also comes under that in my opinion. Play football as you are paid to do - and if you feel strongly enough about any social issues then get your hands dirty and actually get involved with it on your own time would be my advice.
But almost certainly the voice inside the brain would say “but then nobody would see that I care”.
Which is the crux of the issue. |  |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 22:47 - Nov 22 with 1823 views | max936 |
FIFA needs replacing or present lot replaced, but by what, such is the rampant corruption in football. |  |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 22:56 - Nov 22 with 1814 views | max936 |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 22:28 - Nov 22 by mart66 |
Politics should remain out of football.
Mind numbingly obvious messages on armbands also comes under that in my opinion. Play football as you are paid to do - and if you feel strongly enough about any social issues then get your hands dirty and actually get involved with it on your own time would be my advice.
But almost certainly the voice inside the brain would say “but then nobody would see that I care”.
Which is the crux of the issue. |
No better place than a football match to get opinions across from players who are worshipped for want of a better word by fans.
At the end of the day, they should never have been allowed to host such a prestigious event in the sporting world, but we all suspect that it wasn't votes that got them the gig. | |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 23:02 - Nov 22 with 1799 views | KeithHaynes |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 22:47 - Nov 22 by max936 |
FIFA needs replacing or present lot replaced, but by what, such is the rampant corruption in football. |
We saw the attempted coup this year with the new super euro league.
FIFA stand by.
Like the golf, they have some serious money related competition ahead. | |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 23:36 - Nov 22 with 1772 views | mart66 |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 22:56 - Nov 22 by max936 |
No better place than a football match to get opinions across from players who are worshipped for want of a better word by fans.
At the end of the day, they should never have been allowed to host such a prestigious event in the sporting world, but we all suspect that it wasn't votes that got them the gig. |
I’d say there is no worse place.
What on earth does Harry Kane know about the international politics and religious importance of a country he’s probably never been to prior to this week? I doubt it was something Chingford Foundation school specialises in.
Allowing this influence to take hold from people unqualified and lacking in the sufficient understanding or knowledge to pass such complexities is a very dangerous thing.
It’s how BLM took hold let’s not forget, who then pushed back the civil rights movement single handedly by decades. Idiots not understanding the message and organisation they were promoting until it was too late then tried to distance themselves from it without anyone noticing and pretending it was for something else all along despite the mounds of evidence suggesting otherwise.
As I said, if these people feel that strongly then use their significant reach and resources to put the research and work in on their own time. It would be worth far more than an empty gesture they don’t understand at a football match… of which they feel so strongly about that the threat of a yellow card is enough to stop them doing it (?!).
To make such a stance and then immediately back down due to something so trivial as a yellow card - has done more damage to the perception of the importance of the issue than a successful donning of the armband would have done to strengthen it.
This is why political messages can’t be in football. These idiots have no idea of the influence or damage they cause by their clumsy and vapid views of things. I’d be feeling incredibly hurt if I was a Qatari gay person and Harry Kane thinks a yellow card is more important than defending my plight, I would think he has reduced my issue to something incredibly trivial to the world.
If you want to make a personal political stand at the World Cup then accept the trivial consequences that come with it. To back down just makes you look ridiculous.
Everything is brand driven now.
Wear this armband Harry, it will enhance your public image and tap into the hot topic - “okay”.
Second thoughts Harry, you may get a suspension and it damage our professional aims to potentially get you a big money move off the back of this tournament - “okay”.
The sooner this grandstanding is done away with, the better. It’s transparent and exhausting. [Post edited 22 Nov 2022 23:59]
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 06:24 - Nov 23 with 1715 views | Whiterockin |
I'm surprised that it was only European teams and the USA didn't plan to wear the armband. Unless they did and have said nothing. |  | | |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 07:18 - Nov 23 with 1677 views | pencoedjack |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 06:24 - Nov 23 by Whiterockin |
I'm surprised that it was only European teams and the USA didn't plan to wear the armband. Unless they did and have said nothing. |
France are not in that list
Speaking ahead of his side's departure for Doha, Lloris said: "When we are in France, when we welcome foreigners, we often want them to follow our rules, to respect our culture, and I will do the same when I go to Qatar, quite simply."
Frances captain. |  | | |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 08:23 - Nov 23 with 1654 views | Lohengrin |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 06:24 - Nov 23 by Whiterockin |
I'm surprised that it was only European teams and the USA didn't plan to wear the armband. Unless they did and have said nothing. |
Do you think it’s a coincidence that it’s predominantly northern European, culturally Protestant countries that want to take FIFA to task? |  |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 11:02 - Nov 23 with 1561 views | Boundy |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 22:56 - Nov 22 by max936 |
No better place than a football match to get opinions across from players who are worshipped for want of a better word by fans.
At the end of the day, they should never have been allowed to host such a prestigious event in the sporting world, but we all suspect that it wasn't votes that got them the gig. |
Get the word out there regardless .Its what happens in this life which should be more important than what happens in the next , imo there's nothing worse than the ignorance of a religious bigot |  |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 15:36 - Nov 23 with 1469 views | TenbySwan |
What would really hit home is , if the winners whoever they are refuse to collect the trophy and stand there in rainbow hats and armbands |  | | |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 16:13 - Nov 23 with 1443 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 15:36 - Nov 23 by TenbySwan |
What would really hit home is , if the winners whoever they are refuse to collect the trophy and stand there in rainbow hats and armbands |
There has been a gay revolution. The WC 2022 has been hijacked. Activists are desperate to get involved in football to get their message across. The messages are blurred and bland. One love. Is it about gay right or the rights of migrant workers? Which is it? Or both and a few more. Or is it an anti FIFA protest.? One piggy backing on another.
These are the 'gay' games. Footballers are saying we want to bring Islamic countries to our western point of view. No UK player is prepared to come out but protest anyway under pseudo anonymity.
As i have pointed out Islamic countries have similar beliefs to the deep south of the USA over the "rights of the unborn child". In Cardiff Edinburgh London 2032 will Arabic team demand to be allowed to protest what they regard as the 'barbaric termination rates' in the UK?
Palestinian right, ,Kurdish rights, Chinese Muslim rights, Ukranian rights, Donbas rights Abortion, South Sahara, Bosnia, Kosovo, You name it wear an armband.
FIFA would have to have a poets corner event for all the rights to be covered sponsored by Coca cola light. Steve Cooper could bring his guitar and sing Bob Dylan songs.
It is going to end in tears and the abomination that is Team GB. |  |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 16:17 - Nov 23 with 1442 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 07:18 - Nov 23 by pencoedjack |
France are not in that list
Speaking ahead of his side's departure for Doha, Lloris said: "When we are in France, when we welcome foreigners, we often want them to follow our rules, to respect our culture, and I will do the same when I go to Qatar, quite simply."
Frances captain. |
France banns Islamic dress in public places and certain head scarf in state owned office work area. Turkiye does the same. Erdogan wants to abolish this law. | |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 19:26 - Nov 23 with 1405 views | Luther27 |
When did this overtake the fight for imported workers Health & Safety issues and their wages? | | | |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 23:06 - Nov 23 with 1342 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 19:26 - Nov 23 by Luther27 |
When did this overtake the fight for imported workers Health & Safety issues and their wages? |
BLM was about Black rights and police brutality in the USA. The FA then changed to a less focused cause of general discrimination and 'the knee' was no longer about Police brutality. I am not even sure it was about race. The clenched fist is generally a race thing or a worker thing.
The non academic dare not say anything so went along with it. A black man alleged beaten up by the police in Cardiff (leading to his death) made no impression on football in Wales because it was not relevant it seems.
Grimes of Swansea and Morrison of Cardiff did not see it fit to speak to Alun Michael. Odd if they were concerned about the abuse of people of colour. This suggest to me the protests /messaging of the players was somewhat for appearances only and lacked substance. Alun Michael (police commissioner for south Wales) stayed out of it understanding that this was not a serious concern for fans. Welsh footballers were concerned about the US guy in Minneapolis but not Mr Mohamed in Splott. Fans in UKdid not even protest over the Dalian Atkinson report.
The 'one love' was originally about immigrant workers rights but by using the ubiquitous rainbow it has been merged with gay rights and frankly has been overtaken. Activism in gay rights is more powerful in western eyes. The activists have used the workers right issue to get traction and public sympathy and to shame the hosts.
It has been estimated that 3% of people are gay. There are 900 footballers at WC 2022 so there should be 30 or so gays in the World cup Village. There are none in Qatar so it seems. You know what happens next. Possibly one of the German players is gay. (on average). Perhaps a layer or two will take the stand. | |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 00:21 - Nov 24 with 1327 views | mart66 |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 23:06 - Nov 23 by ReslovenSwan1 |
BLM was about Black rights and police brutality in the USA. The FA then changed to a less focused cause of general discrimination and 'the knee' was no longer about Police brutality. I am not even sure it was about race. The clenched fist is generally a race thing or a worker thing.
The non academic dare not say anything so went along with it. A black man alleged beaten up by the police in Cardiff (leading to his death) made no impression on football in Wales because it was not relevant it seems.
Grimes of Swansea and Morrison of Cardiff did not see it fit to speak to Alun Michael. Odd if they were concerned about the abuse of people of colour. This suggest to me the protests /messaging of the players was somewhat for appearances only and lacked substance. Alun Michael (police commissioner for south Wales) stayed out of it understanding that this was not a serious concern for fans. Welsh footballers were concerned about the US guy in Minneapolis but not Mr Mohamed in Splott. Fans in UKdid not even protest over the Dalian Atkinson report.
The 'one love' was originally about immigrant workers rights but by using the ubiquitous rainbow it has been merged with gay rights and frankly has been overtaken. Activism in gay rights is more powerful in western eyes. The activists have used the workers right issue to get traction and public sympathy and to shame the hosts.
It has been estimated that 3% of people are gay. There are 900 footballers at WC 2022 so there should be 30 or so gays in the World cup Village. There are none in Qatar so it seems. You know what happens next. Possibly one of the German players is gay. (on average). Perhaps a layer or two will take the stand. |
“A black man alleged beaten up by the police in Cardiff (leading to his death) made no impression on football in Wales because it was not relevant it seems.”
Why is his skin colour relevant though? It’s like people genuinely don’t think anything bad can ever happen to someone non white without racist intent. My mind boggles. Even the George Floyd incident had no apparent racial motivation, yet it didn’t stop people making the assumption. That in itself is racist and stereotypical of a a race, to assume any negative actions must be due to their inner racism. To make any such assumptions about another race would be seen as grossly offensive.
Racism against white people is probably more prevalent than against any other race currently. White people are openly told they cannot have a valid opinion on a lot of important matters, are told they are inherently bad people, openly stereotyped and mocked and any discrimination against white people is seen as completely fine.
It’s the current acceptable face of racism.
I watched Eminem get inducted into the hall of fame last week. Dr Dre who originally signed him and made his speech and was very open that so many people had told him not to sign him because he was white. Nobody blinked an eye.
There would be investigations for as long as you can see if that was made about any other race. | |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 00:45 - Nov 24 with 1318 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 00:21 - Nov 24 by mart66 |
“A black man alleged beaten up by the police in Cardiff (leading to his death) made no impression on football in Wales because it was not relevant it seems.”
Why is his skin colour relevant though? It’s like people genuinely don’t think anything bad can ever happen to someone non white without racist intent. My mind boggles. Even the George Floyd incident had no apparent racial motivation, yet it didn’t stop people making the assumption. That in itself is racist and stereotypical of a a race, to assume any negative actions must be due to their inner racism. To make any such assumptions about another race would be seen as grossly offensive.
Racism against white people is probably more prevalent than against any other race currently. White people are openly told they cannot have a valid opinion on a lot of important matters, are told they are inherently bad people, openly stereotyped and mocked and any discrimination against white people is seen as completely fine.
It’s the current acceptable face of racism.
I watched Eminem get inducted into the hall of fame last week. Dr Dre who originally signed him and made his speech and was very open that so many people had told him not to sign him because he was white. Nobody blinked an eye.
There would be investigations for as long as you can see if that was made about any other race. |
I was making the point that Grimes and Morrison notionally were concerned about 'discrimination' not 'violence'.
BLM was about 'discrimination' and not concerned by black on black violence or white on white violence. The follow up from the BLM cause was "anti discrimination" not anti violence. The massive gun crime in south Africa was not an issue.
Grimes led his team to stand against discrimination yet completely ignored the death in Cardiff that would appear to mirror image the Floyd event. They were perhaps going through the motions?. If this was a serious concern Grimes would have instructed Birch to contract Alun Michael. 17,000 fans stood up in unity about whatever it was they were united about. They were sending a message to whom? The police did not take any notice of them.
The 'kneeling' message was blurred and now the 'one love' message is blurred. It has mission creep. Is it about the immigrant worker deaths ? Gay rights? what about the rights of the unborn child (which USA players might have high on the agenda)?. No point asking Kane or Bale. As Keith suggested they are just doing as they are told. So who is telling them what? I want transparency not players being manipulated. | |
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| FIFA on the rocks ? on 07:38 - Nov 24 with 1268 views | jojaca |
| FIFA on the rocks ? on 07:18 - Nov 23 by pencoedjack |
France are not in that list
Speaking ahead of his side's departure for Doha, Lloris said: "When we are in France, when we welcome foreigners, we often want them to follow our rules, to respect our culture, and I will do the same when I go to Qatar, quite simply."
Frances captain. |
This is exactly how I feel about this. Pushing western values on everyone else is a cheek. when we exactly are not good role model ourselves, we are continuously at war with our yankie friends. |  |
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