| Another US school shooting on 19:55 - May 27 with 1274 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 19:51 - May 27 by Treforys_Jack |
You have me confused with someone else, it's not my role to decide how they go about change, it's just plainly obvious to most civilised people that change is needed. |
Nope, not confused you for anyone else, anyone complaining that we have to change it really should understand what it is that they are advocating for.
Give us your proposal and we will go from there. If you don't have one then how on earth can you want change not knowing what the knock on effects will be. |  |
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| Another US school shooting on 19:57 - May 27 with 1278 views | onehunglow |
I see the National Rifle Association having its annual bash in Houston .
What do they talk about then.
How beautiful is their weapon.
How powerful it is
How many it can kills and at what distance
Meanwhile these kids are having their funerals arranged and Disgusting Donald Trump supports the NRA as an American's right. |  |
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| Another US school shooting on 20:02 - May 27 with 1260 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 19:57 - May 27 by onehunglow |
I see the National Rifle Association having its annual bash in Houston .
What do they talk about then.
How beautiful is their weapon.
How powerful it is
How many it can kills and at what distance
Meanwhile these kids are having their funerals arranged and Disgusting Donald Trump supports the NRA as an American's right. |
Not sure, never been.
But there NRA don't have the power to outlaw guns, neither did Trump.
So it's irrelevant what they talk about I suppose. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 20:18 - May 27 with 1245 views | onehunglow |
| Another US school shooting on 20:02 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not sure, never been.
But there NRA don't have the power to outlaw guns, neither did Trump.
So it's irrelevant what they talk about I suppose. |
It is critically evident a it undepins the whole of American society.The right to bear arms.
This should be recinded immediately. It wont
Trump supports the NRA purely for rught wing votes.Trump is the most immoral of men and his ability to turn stomachs of decent folk remains stella.
Here is a guy who is more concerned with votes/power/influence than anything and that includes children slaughtered in their school.He would support abolishing of all guns if there was political capital to be gained.
America needs to grow up. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 20:23 - May 27 with 1235 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 20:18 - May 27 by onehunglow |
It is critically evident a it undepins the whole of American society.The right to bear arms.
This should be recinded immediately. It wont
Trump supports the NRA purely for rught wing votes.Trump is the most immoral of men and his ability to turn stomachs of decent folk remains stella.
Here is a guy who is more concerned with votes/power/influence than anything and that includes children slaughtered in their school.He would support abolishing of all guns if there was political capital to be gained.
America needs to grow up. |
Again, neither Trump or the NRA have/had any power to revoke the second amendment.
Even if they could, for the reasons stated, it would not have the desired effect.
Not really about growing up - it's about reality. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 21:31 - May 27 with 1237 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Another US school shooting on 19:55 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nope, not confused you for anyone else, anyone complaining that we have to change it really should understand what it is that they are advocating for.
Give us your proposal and we will go from there. If you don't have one then how on earth can you want change not knowing what the knock on effects will be. |
Again, not my role to the process they choose, but if I was an American citizen definitely my right to demand change. |  | | |
| Another US school shooting on 21:33 - May 27 with 1217 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 21:31 - May 27 by Treforys_Jack |
Again, not my role to the process they choose, but if I was an American citizen definitely my right to demand change. |
You would need to know what change you are demanding though.
Otherwise how will they know what you want to change? | |
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| Another US school shooting on 21:56 - May 27 with 1216 views | 73__73 |
More people die in America from eating cr@p junk food than what are killed by guns.
I don’t see people over hear crying about that. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 23:05 - May 27 with 1210 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Another US school shooting on 21:33 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
You would need to know what change you are demanding though.
Otherwise how will they know what you want to change? |
The abolition of guns obviously. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 23:06 - May 27 with 1207 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Another US school shooting on 21:56 - May 27 by 73__73 |
More people die in America from eating cr@p junk food than what are killed by guns.
I don’t see people over hear crying about that. |
Agreed but not really relevant in this thread. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 23:10 - May 27 with 1204 views | BryanSwan |
| Another US school shooting on 21:56 - May 27 by 73__73 |
More people die in America from eating cr@p junk food than what are killed by guns.
I don’t see people over hear crying about that. |
Not really the same is it. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 03:37 - May 28 with 1165 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 23:05 - May 27 by Treforys_Jack |
The abolition of guns obviously. |
You have to face the reality of what you are saying, otherwise it’s just noise.
It may sound nice and it may feel right to say, but what you are saying just isn’t feasible or even possible. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 05:21 - May 28 with 1170 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Another US school shooting on 03:37 - May 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
You have to face the reality of what you are saying, otherwise it’s just noise.
It may sound nice and it may feel right to say, but what you are saying just isn’t feasible or even possible. |
If you take 10% of the guns for a start, that's 10% less, it may have even prevented the lunatic from Texas getting his hands on one and executing 19 children in cold blood. To do nothing is not an option surely and I'm surprised its what you advocate. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 05:28 - May 28 with 1154 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 05:21 - May 28 by Treforys_Jack |
If you take 10% of the guns for a start, that's 10% less, it may have even prevented the lunatic from Texas getting his hands on one and executing 19 children in cold blood. To do nothing is not an option surely and I'm surprised its what you advocate. |
How?
If you take 40 million guns away (no idea how you plan on doing that). Why would that decrease this lunatics chances of getting a gun by 10%? It doesn’t really work like that.
If he 100% wants one then he will 100% get one, whether you have taken 10% or 60% away, that doesn’t change.
I haven’t advocated “doing nothing”, quote me saying that, you won’t be able to.
What I am saying is those calling for change don’t understand what they are proposing. I don’t see a solution, that’s a world away from advocating doing nothing.
Feel free to keep actively looking for solutions, but as of yet there isn’t one. So blaming people is ludicrous. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 06:57 - May 28 with 1149 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Another US school shooting on 05:28 - May 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
How?
If you take 40 million guns away (no idea how you plan on doing that). Why would that decrease this lunatics chances of getting a gun by 10%? It doesn’t really work like that.
If he 100% wants one then he will 100% get one, whether you have taken 10% or 60% away, that doesn’t change.
I haven’t advocated “doing nothing”, quote me saying that, you won’t be able to.
What I am saying is those calling for change don’t understand what they are proposing. I don’t see a solution, that’s a world away from advocating doing nothing.
Feel free to keep actively looking for solutions, but as of yet there isn’t one. So blaming people is ludicrous. |
Why is blaming people ludicrous, there is no appetite to find a "gun solution", it's a ridiculous scenario in a civilised society. According to you nothing can be done, so tragedies will continue to occur. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 07:40 - May 28 with 1143 views | LeJacobin |
| Another US school shooting on 07:26 - May 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
You know Presidents don't have that power... don't you? It's their constitution.
But again, another poster using such a tragedy to point score politically is pretty abhorrent. Gun laws have been in America since the late 1700's.
Since 1800 there has been 17 Democrat Presidents, Biden being prompted to utter some words doesn't change anything and won't change anything.
The people will decide what they want. Any proposed amendment to the Constitution has to be passed by both the House and the Senate with two thirds majorities. It would then need to be ratified by three fourths of the 50 states.
What the current Presidents personal views on gun laws are, is neither here nor there. |
I agree that it is not politically feasible to ban all guns in America. The revocation of the 2nd amendment and the prohibition of all firearms is complete fantasy at present. It is off the table after the Uvalde tragedy and will be off the table following the next inevitable tragedy, sadly.
I disagree with you however when you suggest that even if a total gun ban was possible it wouldn't be effective. To my mind the main positive outcome of making all guns illegal in the U.S would be that it would make guns less prominent and less visible, this in turn would alter the toxic gun culture in America.
The 2nd amendment was primarily conceived because the founding fathers thought that an armed citizenry was the best bulwark against a tyrannical government. If we look at gun enthusiasts today however that is not what we see, we do not see responsible adults quietly going about their lives with firearms locked safely away in their homes just in case one fateful day they have to defend their nation against an enemy foreign or domestic.
What we see is an endless stream of vulgar and frankly juvenile displays of gun toting exhibitionism. Political ads with candidates firing rifles, protesters at rallies armed to the teeth, politicians sending Christmas cards depicting their entire family holding assault weapons, celebrities posing with guns on their social media platforms and right-wing grifters like Stephen Crowder who does his entire Youtube show with a pistol holstered under his arm.
These people are not carrying guns because they think a dictatorship is imminent. They're doing it because in the American psyche guns have become ideological signifiers, associated with ideas of masculinity, freedom, the frontier spirit, defending the American way of life and patriotism. Chris Hedges says that the most damaging thing for a society is when it loses touch with reality, on the gun issue America has done just that. Too many Americans have delusional hero fantasies where they act like action heroes and save the day with their guns, where as in reality they'd be just like the cops in Texas and freeze when confronted with an active shooter.
Until regular Americans stop fetishizing the idea of being a "good guy with a gun" we can't hope for sick Americans to stop fetishizing the idea of being a "bad guy with a gun". |  | | |
| Another US school shooting on 07:56 - May 28 with 1111 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 07:40 - May 28 by LeJacobin |
I agree that it is not politically feasible to ban all guns in America. The revocation of the 2nd amendment and the prohibition of all firearms is complete fantasy at present. It is off the table after the Uvalde tragedy and will be off the table following the next inevitable tragedy, sadly.
I disagree with you however when you suggest that even if a total gun ban was possible it wouldn't be effective. To my mind the main positive outcome of making all guns illegal in the U.S would be that it would make guns less prominent and less visible, this in turn would alter the toxic gun culture in America.
The 2nd amendment was primarily conceived because the founding fathers thought that an armed citizenry was the best bulwark against a tyrannical government. If we look at gun enthusiasts today however that is not what we see, we do not see responsible adults quietly going about their lives with firearms locked safely away in their homes just in case one fateful day they have to defend their nation against an enemy foreign or domestic.
What we see is an endless stream of vulgar and frankly juvenile displays of gun toting exhibitionism. Political ads with candidates firing rifles, protesters at rallies armed to the teeth, politicians sending Christmas cards depicting their entire family holding assault weapons, celebrities posing with guns on their social media platforms and right-wing grifters like Stephen Crowder who does his entire Youtube show with a pistol holstered under his arm.
These people are not carrying guns because they think a dictatorship is imminent. They're doing it because in the American psyche guns have become ideological signifiers, associated with ideas of masculinity, freedom, the frontier spirit, defending the American way of life and patriotism. Chris Hedges says that the most damaging thing for a society is when it loses touch with reality, on the gun issue America has done just that. Too many Americans have delusional hero fantasies where they act like action heroes and save the day with their guns, where as in reality they'd be just like the cops in Texas and freeze when confronted with an active shooter.
Until regular Americans stop fetishizing the idea of being a "good guy with a gun" we can't hope for sick Americans to stop fetishizing the idea of being a "bad guy with a gun". |
Excellent post and a perfect example how to put forward an opposing view with explanations behind the points made.
We largely agree except with regards to the gun ban being effective. With 400 million already in circulation it won’t solve anything. I see your point regarding pulling back of the gun culture and glorification of firearms, but most of these mass shootings are done by absolute mental cases as opposed to someone who just is doing it because they like guns.
The 2nd amendment was indeed created for a regulated militia to potentially fight a tyrannical Government, but that was back when towns were small and tight knit. It doesn’t state whether the militia would be in place at the time of the gun ownership or the gun ownership would then lead to a militia as and when needed - which as it happens I think would be the case should there be a tyrannical Government.
As it stands however unless there is a guarantee that those criminals and those with bad intentions will comply with any legislation (which is unlikely if we are being realistic) - then I can’t see any logic behind families giving up their right to protect themselves from these people. And of course considering those people aren’t behind these atrocities then it doesn’t make much sense to the bottom line anyway in terms of casualties.
What you suggest may well be the case for gang culture in terms of juvenile displays, however gang members don’t tend to be the ones doing these kinds of killings that are being discussed here. I just question the impact of any legislation towards the problem people are expecting it to solve.
400 million guns, 80 million assault weapons, limited to almost no political power to change it. My issue is people blaming people being “stupid” by not doing what they suggest when what they suggest doesn’t display any understanding of the situation.
It’s not an easy topic and doing “anything” is not something anyone should be advocating for without knowing the results of it. Contrary to popular belief anti gun legislation can also cause adverse effects and make the situation even worse. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 09:42 - May 28 with 1087 views | Brynmill_Jack |
It’s noteworthy that a country whose media outlets are hinting at atrocities in the Ukraine conflict but this is everyday news to them.
Don’t take this the wrong way - this is about the US not Russia/Ukraine.
I’m not saying they’re turning a blind eye or not condemning these horrific domestic gun attacks - when the shooting of primary school children in the USA (the latest in a very long line of these incidents) is just another news item it just seems like an awful paradox that’s all. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Another US school shooting on 13:25 - May 28 with 1053 views | Lorax |
| Another US school shooting on 06:57 - May 28 by Treforys_Jack |
Why is blaming people ludicrous, there is no appetite to find a "gun solution", it's a ridiculous scenario in a civilised society. According to you nothing can be done, so tragedies will continue to occur. |
It's often said, guns don't kill people, people kill people and OK, that's true. What these kind of people can never understand though is risk mitigation. A lunatic with a knife may kill one or two before he's stopped because 3/4 ordinary people could stop him even if unarmed themselves.
However a lunatic with an assault rifle and 1800 rounds will only be stopped if they surrender or are gunned down themselves and most of the time the bullet is the solution.
To mitigate that risk the only solution is to restrict the sale of guns, fewer guns and bullets obviously means fewer active shooters, fewer mass murders.
Owning a gun though, is obviously more important than the lives of children, I can't get my head around that. Maybe any parent whose child has been gunned down in school would change their mind? I don't know. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 13:35 - May 28 with 1034 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 06:57 - May 28 by Treforys_Jack |
Why is blaming people ludicrous, there is no appetite to find a "gun solution", it's a ridiculous scenario in a civilised society. According to you nothing can be done, so tragedies will continue to occur. |
Because you cannot blame someone for something they are powerless to do.
Who are you blaming exactly?
“According to you” doesn’t come into it, it’s simply the situation. You can have all the appetite to change whatever you like, but if there is no workable solution then there is no workable solution.
It’s not a case of “do anything”, as things have consequences. Unless the consequences are positive then what’s the point in doing it?
As I said, if you have a solution then we can look at it. Until that time blaming invisible people for not pushing through an invisible idea is the epitome of ludicrous. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 13:38 - May 28 with 1032 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 13:25 - May 28 by Lorax |
It's often said, guns don't kill people, people kill people and OK, that's true. What these kind of people can never understand though is risk mitigation. A lunatic with a knife may kill one or two before he's stopped because 3/4 ordinary people could stop him even if unarmed themselves.
However a lunatic with an assault rifle and 1800 rounds will only be stopped if they surrender or are gunned down themselves and most of the time the bullet is the solution.
To mitigate that risk the only solution is to restrict the sale of guns, fewer guns and bullets obviously means fewer active shooters, fewer mass murders.
Owning a gun though, is obviously more important than the lives of children, I can't get my head around that. Maybe any parent whose child has been gunned down in school would change their mind? I don't know. |
But it doesn’t mean that, does it.
There are about 10 mass shootings per year (shooting involving 4 or more). There are 400 million guns, 80 million assault rifles.
If those 10 want to get their hands on a gun then they will do so, whether you put restrictions in place or not. There is 400 million in circulation, more than one for every person in the country.
Let that sink in, then you can maybe understand why what you are suggestion won’t affect a single thing. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 18:13 - May 28 with 1005 views | shingle |
| Another US school shooting on 19:34 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Grudge? I don't recall ever speaking to you before.
So when are you risking your life to join the police force? |
Everyone knows what happened before you were owned wound up and spat out, the fact that you posted non stop for 24 hours creased everyone, come to think of it you seem to have got your self wound up yet again big time on this thread, what an earth is the matter with you your spending god knows how much of you time desperately trying to get your points over as if it means everything to you to do so, you are only going to make yourself ill again if you carry on at this rate you silly man. [Post edited 28 May 2022 18:14]
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| Another US school shooting on 18:28 - May 28 with 988 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Another US school shooting on 09:46 - May 27 by onehunglow |
It can.
The mentality to love a lethal weapon,specifically made for the purpose is what is the most fundamental factor of all.
Love of guns |
Read my thoughts. Can never imagine holding a gun, least of all treasuring one.
I can’t tie up pro life and pro guns |  | | |
| Another US school shooting on 20:48 - May 28 with 949 views | 73__73 |
| Another US school shooting on 18:28 - May 28 by Sirjohnalot |
Read my thoughts. Can never imagine holding a gun, least of all treasuring one.
I can’t tie up pro life and pro guns |
And I guarantee you want to ban guns, but are happy for unborn babies to be killed with abortion. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 22:59 - May 28 with 930 views | Lorax |
| Another US school shooting on 18:13 - May 28 by shingle |
Everyone knows what happened before you were owned wound up and spat out, the fact that you posted non stop for 24 hours creased everyone, come to think of it you seem to have got your self wound up yet again big time on this thread, what an earth is the matter with you your spending god knows how much of you time desperately trying to get your points over as if it means everything to you to do so, you are only going to make yourself ill again if you carry on at this rate you silly man. [Post edited 28 May 2022 18:14]
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I hope he's not trying to get his points over to me, I've got him on ignore!
I look now and again and it only justifies my use of the ignore button.
Anybody who can defend guns or try to claim there is nothing that can be done so why bother, frankly, isn't worth the bother. | | | |
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