| Brentford and taking the knee 21:48 - Feb 13 with 11820 views | 1ASIN12 |
Just read this on the bbc
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56057908
Wonder how it will be received and if more clubs will follow suit or will Brentford have a rethink?
Has the “taking the knee” lost the impact as Brentford have stated .
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 16:15 - Feb 15 with 1558 views | DorsetIan |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 15:45 - Feb 15 by Saintsforeverj |
Exactly. What's the point of doing something that isn't stopping the problem? It's not education, it's not a consequence, it's just something they do because they have been told to do it. |
It's a gesture of solidarity. That's all. No different or worse than putting an NHS rainbow in your window, which a lot of people have been doing. | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 16:42 - Feb 15 with 1543 views | Saintsforeverj |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 16:15 - Feb 15 by DorsetIan |
It's a gesture of solidarity. That's all. No different or worse than putting an NHS rainbow in your window, which a lot of people have been doing. |
I have seen a few NHS rainbows displayed in windows, by choice. I haven't seen any Black lives matters stickers. But I have seen football players taking the knee before every match because they have been told to. Souness, Keane, and others were also forced to wear a badge, otherwise they would be sacked. I wonder what Souness really thinks? That is hardly solidarity to me (people forced to so something) but ok, I take your point, but I would rather real solidarity that isn't forced to tick a box: then you know they mean it. [Post edited 15 Feb 2021 16:45]
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 19:24 - Feb 15 with 1524 views | DorsetIan |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 16:42 - Feb 15 by Saintsforeverj |
I have seen a few NHS rainbows displayed in windows, by choice. I haven't seen any Black lives matters stickers. But I have seen football players taking the knee before every match because they have been told to. Souness, Keane, and others were also forced to wear a badge, otherwise they would be sacked. I wonder what Souness really thinks? That is hardly solidarity to me (people forced to so something) but ok, I take your point, but I would rather real solidarity that isn't forced to tick a box: then you know they mean it. [Post edited 15 Feb 2021 16:45]
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And I can take your point. Freedom of thought is important and peer pressure and virtue signalling are never great.
On the other hand, a simple show of support can’t be that harmful.
I think it was good that they did it for a while but I also think it should have been for a limited Time. These things lose there effectiveness and start to feel a bit weird after a while. Bit like the street clapping - it had a natural shelf life, and then became irritating.
Football authorities would do well to bring it to a deliberate and coordinated end. | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 19:26 - Feb 15 with 1523 views | Bazza |
Billy Vinipola refused to take to the knee with the England Rugby team because as a Christian he couldn’t support BLM, an organisation that burns churches and bibles. Don’t know the truth in his comments but it just wrong that the UK sports authorities force players to follow a very dodgy USA organisation. | | | |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 20:06 - Feb 15 with 1502 views | DorsetIan |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 19:26 - Feb 15 by Bazza |
Billy Vinipola refused to take to the knee with the England Rugby team because as a Christian he couldn’t support BLM, an organisation that burns churches and bibles. Don’t know the truth in his comments but it just wrong that the UK sports authorities force players to follow a very dodgy USA organisation. |
It is not a gesture of support for any organisation. It’s support for the idea that black lives matter as much as anyone else’s. | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 23:43 - Feb 15 with 1462 views | GasGiant |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 20:06 - Feb 15 by DorsetIan |
It is not a gesture of support for any organisation. It’s support for the idea that black lives matter as much as anyone else’s. |
Who says Black Lives don't matter? I have yet to have anyone answer that question directly without trying to slide it into some vague generalisation. I have never in my life heard anybody anywhere in Britain say that black lives "do not matter" either explicitly or implicitly. Political activists have imported a set of prejudices from the deep south of the USA that were totally irrelevant to the UK and simply dumped them on the settled UK population with no knowledge of the facts of the UK's own history. We had no Jim Crow laws, our armed forces were not segregated into black and white regiments (as were the US army in WW2), We had no segregation on buses or streets or schools and there is no background or reason to cause people in the UK to feel either guilty or responsible for the whole of the world's problems today. Quite the opposite in fact. [Post edited 16 Feb 2021 8:49]
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 09:37 - Feb 16 with 1419 views | Bicester_North |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 20:06 - Feb 15 by DorsetIan |
It is not a gesture of support for any organisation. It’s support for the idea that black lives matter as much as anyone else’s. |
Will you take the knee before squash matches when the courts open back up? | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 10:29 - Feb 16 with 1409 views | DorsetIan |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 23:43 - Feb 15 by GasGiant |
Who says Black Lives don't matter? I have yet to have anyone answer that question directly without trying to slide it into some vague generalisation. I have never in my life heard anybody anywhere in Britain say that black lives "do not matter" either explicitly or implicitly. Political activists have imported a set of prejudices from the deep south of the USA that were totally irrelevant to the UK and simply dumped them on the settled UK population with no knowledge of the facts of the UK's own history. We had no Jim Crow laws, our armed forces were not segregated into black and white regiments (as were the US army in WW2), We had no segregation on buses or streets or schools and there is no background or reason to cause people in the UK to feel either guilty or responsible for the whole of the world's problems today. Quite the opposite in fact. [Post edited 16 Feb 2021 8:49]
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Racists say that black lives don't matter as much as others.
On one level this is a gesture against them. More generally this is simply a gesture against racism in any form.
If you think that there is no racism in the UK, or that if there, it isn't as bad as in the US, so let's not worry about, then you won't see the need for the gesture. And if there is no need for it, then there is nothing to feel guilty about either.
Anyway, it's not about guilt-tripping anyone. That's 'snowflake' talk. | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 10:31 - Feb 16 with 1407 views | DorsetIan |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 09:37 - Feb 16 by Bicester_North |
Will you take the knee before squash matches when the courts open back up? |
Well (see above) I've already said I think it's time to stop it...
...but until then, yes, the next time my match is on Sky I will be happy to. | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 10:53 - Feb 16 with 1396 views | Sadoldgit |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 23:43 - Feb 15 by GasGiant |
Who says Black Lives don't matter? I have yet to have anyone answer that question directly without trying to slide it into some vague generalisation. I have never in my life heard anybody anywhere in Britain say that black lives "do not matter" either explicitly or implicitly. Political activists have imported a set of prejudices from the deep south of the USA that were totally irrelevant to the UK and simply dumped them on the settled UK population with no knowledge of the facts of the UK's own history. We had no Jim Crow laws, our armed forces were not segregated into black and white regiments (as were the US army in WW2), We had no segregation on buses or streets or schools and there is no background or reason to cause people in the UK to feel either guilty or responsible for the whole of the world's problems today. Quite the opposite in fact. [Post edited 16 Feb 2021 8:49]
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Your post completely ignores the fact that black people here face racial abuse on a daily basis. They are more likely to be stopped and searched or arrested. Many still feel that they are second class citizens. I mentioned it before but do you understand how patronising and I’ll informed it sounds when white people make comments about how black people really don’t have major issues here in this country when they most obviously do. This isn’t about us comparing ourselves to other countries. This is about us having to face up to our own problems about racial inequality and dealing with them. |  | | |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 11:32 - Feb 16 with 1391 views | geezershoong1 |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 10:31 - Feb 16 by DorsetIan |
Well (see above) I've already said I think it's time to stop it...
...but until then, yes, the next time my match is on Sky I will be happy to. |
Just to clarify, you're taking the knee in front of televised matches..? |  |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 13:01 - Feb 16 with 1370 views | GasGiant |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 10:29 - Feb 16 by DorsetIan |
Racists say that black lives don't matter as much as others.
On one level this is a gesture against them. More generally this is simply a gesture against racism in any form.
If you think that there is no racism in the UK, or that if there, it isn't as bad as in the US, so let's not worry about, then you won't see the need for the gesture. And if there is no need for it, then there is nothing to feel guilty about either.
Anyway, it's not about guilt-tripping anyone. That's 'snowflake' talk. |
Why the hell would I say that there is no racism in the UK? There is nowhere in the world outside of the unpopulated parts of Antarctica where there is no racism so why would I think there is no racism in the UK? Just saying "The Racists" is a feeble response that suggests you don't have an answer to the question except an endless propagation of inflating a phantom enemy without ever actually describing who they are and what they are doing. "The Racists" is not an answer - so again, who said that "Black Lives Don't Matter?" and more precisely , who in the UK said it? Don't try and deliberately suggest I was denying the existence of racism merely to get out of answering the question. Yes there are racists, and when they were given the chance to express their views at the ballot box, how many of them were there compared to the sensible non racist law abiding majority who have to witness this charade every week? | | | |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 13:12 - Feb 16 with 1362 views | DorsetIan |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 11:32 - Feb 16 by geezershoong1 |
Just to clarify, you're taking the knee in front of televised matches..? |
Next time my squash match is on the telly. (See the post i was replying to). | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 13:26 - Feb 16 with 1350 views | DorsetIan |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 13:01 - Feb 16 by GasGiant |
Why the hell would I say that there is no racism in the UK? There is nowhere in the world outside of the unpopulated parts of Antarctica where there is no racism so why would I think there is no racism in the UK? Just saying "The Racists" is a feeble response that suggests you don't have an answer to the question except an endless propagation of inflating a phantom enemy without ever actually describing who they are and what they are doing. "The Racists" is not an answer - so again, who said that "Black Lives Don't Matter?" and more precisely , who in the UK said it? Don't try and deliberately suggest I was denying the existence of racism merely to get out of answering the question. Yes there are racists, and when they were given the chance to express their views at the ballot box, how many of them were there compared to the sensible non racist law abiding majority who have to witness this charade every week? |
Why are you asking ‚who said black lives don’t matter?‘. If you agree that there is racism in the country then why do you need to identify an individual that said ‚black lives don’t matter‘?
Black lives matter is a slogan, taking the knee is a gesture. Both anti-racist. That’s it - what‘s difficult or problematic about it?
Why do you think a gesture of solidarity is a charade? Do you feel as strongly about people clapping in the street for the NHS? Or about people forming mobs to protect statues of dead imperialists? | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 14:05 - Feb 16 with 1344 views | Bazza |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 13:26 - Feb 16 by DorsetIan |
Why are you asking ‚who said black lives don’t matter?‘. If you agree that there is racism in the country then why do you need to identify an individual that said ‚black lives don’t matter‘?
Black lives matter is a slogan, taking the knee is a gesture. Both anti-racist. That’s it - what‘s difficult or problematic about it?
Why do you think a gesture of solidarity is a charade? Do you feel as strongly about people clapping in the street for the NHS? Or about people forming mobs to protect statues of dead imperialists? |
BLM is a political movement. | | | |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 14:27 - Feb 16 with 1332 views | DorsetIan |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 14:05 - Feb 16 by Bazza |
BLM is a political movement. |
And 'Black Lives Matter' is also a slogan and taking a knee is also a gesture, both of which can be (not always, of course) separate from any organisation that anyone might associate with the BLM movement.
These things are fluid.
The argument that any one who wears a BLM badge or takes the knee is explicitly endorsing an organisation is just not true. | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 14:30 - Feb 16 with 1331 views | Sadoldgit |
Correct. As quoted in wiki “Black Lives Matter” remains in trademarked and refers to a slogan as well as a movement. I think we all know what we mean by Black Lives Matter by now so why bother muddying the water? We are talking about highlighting racial abuse and inequality. Plain and simple. | | | |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 14:40 - Feb 16 with 1329 views | geezershoong1 |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 14:30 - Feb 16 by Sadoldgit |
Correct. As quoted in wiki “Black Lives Matter” remains in trademarked and refers to a slogan as well as a movement. I think we all know what we mean by Black Lives Matter by now so why bother muddying the water? We are talking about highlighting racial abuse and inequality. Plain and simple. |
They have legally changed their name to 'Black Liberation Movement'.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/blm-uk-gains-legal-status-with-ren | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 14:54 - Feb 16 with 1322 views | Sadoldgit |
Makes it easier I guess. Instead of spending time arguing over the meaning of Black Lives Matter and whether people should still take the knee, perhaps we should direct our energy where it really matters, at dealing with racism? | | | |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 15:08 - Feb 16 with 1312 views | Saintsforeverj |
Such a shame Ian Wright never became a manager. He would have been excellent. I wonder if he ever wanted to become one? | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 15:22 - Feb 16 with 1297 views | GasGiant |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 10:53 - Feb 16 by Sadoldgit |
Your post completely ignores the fact that black people here face racial abuse on a daily basis. They are more likely to be stopped and searched or arrested. Many still feel that they are second class citizens. I mentioned it before but do you understand how patronising and I’ll informed it sounds when white people make comments about how black people really don’t have major issues here in this country when they most obviously do. This isn’t about us comparing ourselves to other countries. This is about us having to face up to our own problems about racial inequality and dealing with them. |
No it doesn't ignore the issue, it clarifies it and stops people like you trotting out these bland platitides without justification. "Black people" do not all face racial abuse on a daily basis as you like to infer. Some do, and it is the size of that "some" and the questions of how much abuse and whether or not it was for their ethnicity and no other reason, rather than some quarrel or spat such as most people face that are nothing to do with their race or gender, but to do with an event or action, such as the example I quoted in a previous post. I have spent a lot of my later career working with and managing ethnic minorities in fully integrated working environments, as are the majority of environments in the UK so I will tell you for a fact that while some black people face some abuse they do not all face abuse all the time any more than saying all people face abuse all the time when driving. If you make that same stupid sweeping inflation of the "racism" issue without any attempt to quantify it or analyse it as I did previously I'll dissemble your post and maybe you'll think a bit harder next time. [Post edited 16 Feb 2021 16:04]
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 15:50 - Feb 16 with 1284 views | geezershoong1 |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 10:53 - Feb 16 by Sadoldgit |
Your post completely ignores the fact that black people here face racial abuse on a daily basis. They are more likely to be stopped and searched or arrested. Many still feel that they are second class citizens. I mentioned it before but do you understand how patronising and I’ll informed it sounds when white people make comments about how black people really don’t have major issues here in this country when they most obviously do. This isn’t about us comparing ourselves to other countries. This is about us having to face up to our own problems about racial inequality and dealing with them. |
'Daily basis'? Did all your black friends tell you this? | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 16:01 - Feb 16 with 1273 views | DellHero_Would |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 15:50 - Feb 16 by geezershoong1 |
'Daily basis'? Did all your black friends tell you this? |
Soppy talks C.R.A.P 99.9% of the time. Even by his standards though that’s the biggest load of rubbish. | |
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| Brentford and taking the knee on 16:03 - Feb 16 with 1269 views | GasGiant |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 13:26 - Feb 16 by DorsetIan |
Why are you asking ‚who said black lives don’t matter?‘. If you agree that there is racism in the country then why do you need to identify an individual that said ‚black lives don’t matter‘?
Black lives matter is a slogan, taking the knee is a gesture. Both anti-racist. That’s it - what‘s difficult or problematic about it?
Why do you think a gesture of solidarity is a charade? Do you feel as strongly about people clapping in the street for the NHS? Or about people forming mobs to protect statues of dead imperialists? |
Trying to make some kind of association between me and people who form mobs around statues is fatuous garbage, and it illustrates the unconscious generalisations that riddle your posts so you don't exactly stand up as a model of impartial objectivity, do you. I'm not asking you to speak for the bloody movement FFS, I've asked your personal view on whether you've ever heard anyone claim that "Black Lives Don't Matter" but you immediately inflate the question into that same vague national space where nothing is proved or disproved rather as though you are some kind of navel gazing sophisticate. You think anyone would run off and become a racist based on your answer? The problem is that as soon as the movement's leaders concede any ground on this they lose their own power and so do the useful idiots who sustain the movement by failing to question what it is and what it actually stands for. I say BLM in the UK is not about "fairness", is it, it is about the realignment of power without democracy. And you ask me me about clapping in the street, probably because you think I'll blunder into another of your clumsily set traps. No because it is divisive, populist mass consumption nonsense that immediately makes distinctions between those workers deemed worthy of a clap and those who aren't, and someone somewhere (you?) deciding one from another. There are nurses I would't let within a hundred yards of my late father and then there are Care Home workers who are low paid angels with no decent pension or job security. Who decides? You also ask about mobs round statues. Well if they were just ordinary people stopping vandalism from an other ignorant mob then yes I hope they'd succeed but you couldn't resist sticking that little emotive word "Imperialist" in there to prejudice the answer - suggesting you think you can predicate the answer to your own advantage. But then that's the whole characteristic of the Social Engineering around Racism isn't it, that "you" always get to pre-empt the debate and decide what is and what isn't? | | | |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 16:29 - Feb 16 with 1250 views | Sadoldgit |
| Brentford and taking the knee on 15:50 - Feb 16 by geezershoong1 |
'Daily basis'? Did all your black friends tell you this? |
If you bothered to look into it the numbers of racial abuse is rising almost daily, and not just against footballers, politicians or celebrities. What is that comment about “black friends” supposed to mean exactly? Tell me something, if you were abused frequently over your ethnic background, would you just laugh it off as a bit of “bantz”? | | | |
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