| New vaccine by Christmas on 12:53 - Sep 3 with 1426 views | Waylander |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 12:15 - Sep 3 by dirk_doone |
Several countries have announced their vaccine has been tested and will be ready for use by the end of this year. So, I don't think the UK's announcement is unduly optimistic. It seems that scientists have solved the problem and that there is already more than one proven solution. |
Vaccines research for a long time has been the poor relation compared to oncology, psychiatry and Alzheimers. Vaccines do not make a lot of money so they struggle for resources. I'm not surprised that when they get priority scientists can move fast. So much of what slows research down is bureaucracy - waiting for funding and review committees. |  | |  |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 13:53 - Sep 3 with 1380 views | Sadoldgit |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 21:49 - Sep 2 by Bison |
Have you seen Waylanders credentials and his comments ? I think you may have a bit of trouble starting an argument on this thread now. |
Nice to have someone on board who knows what he is talking about! 🤓 |  | | |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 14:01 - Sep 3 with 1375 views | Bison |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 13:53 - Sep 3 by Sadoldgit |
Nice to have someone on board who knows what he is talking about! 🤓 |
Yes it's been very interesting and reassuring reading Waylanders comments. I have even unloaded the shotgun and took the barb wire off the garden fence. Just to get back to some sort of movement normality be good but phase 2 will be the economic consequences across the world / country. But we already know who will get the blame for that  |  |
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 14:08 - Sep 3 with 1368 views | Sadoldgit |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 14:01 - Sep 3 by Bison |
Yes it's been very interesting and reassuring reading Waylanders comments. I have even unloaded the shotgun and took the barb wire off the garden fence. Just to get back to some sort of movement normality be good but phase 2 will be the economic consequences across the world / country. But we already know who will get the blame for that |
I haven’t seen anyone blame this government for the economic downturn caused by the pandemic Bison. How they manage their way out of it will be a different story though. Still a government that chose to inflict 10 years of austerity on the country should be well versed in managing a flat economy! Tighten your belt! | | | |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 14:22 - Sep 3 with 1359 views | KRAZYB |
Same old same old story. this is a time when we should all be pulling together knowing that this country is in financial trouble. Not that we are the only country struggling at the moment. |  | | |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 16:44 - Sep 3 with 1311 views | arfurdent |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 14:22 - Sep 3 by KRAZYB |
Same old same old story. this is a time when we should all be pulling together knowing that this country is in financial trouble. Not that we are the only country struggling at the moment. |
Lets all support The Establishment, I am sure they will reciprocate in their usual way [Post edited 4 Sep 2020 9:39]
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| And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's off with her head |
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 17:40 - Sep 3 with 1284 views | Sadoldgit |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 14:22 - Sep 3 by KRAZYB |
Same old same old story. this is a time when we should all be pulling together knowing that this country is in financial trouble. Not that we are the only country struggling at the moment. |
Do you honestly think that Starmer and the Labour Party would not be getting the same level of criticism if they were in power and doing the same things?
We elect people to run the country for us and if they do a poor job we are entitled to criticise them are we not?
Our future lies in the hands of these people and we are reliant on them not f*cking it up. | | | |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 18:38 - Sep 3 with 1266 views | Boris_ |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 17:40 - Sep 3 by Sadoldgit |
Do you honestly think that Starmer and the Labour Party would not be getting the same level of criticism if they were in power and doing the same things?
We elect people to run the country for us and if they do a poor job we are entitled to criticise them are we not?
Our future lies in the hands of these people and we are reliant on them not f*cking it up. |
They would be getting the same level of criticism Soppy, yes.
Why? Because they'd be getting an almost identical amount of things wrong.
How about some balance in your argument and acknowledging that the government have done some things right as well, just as Starmer would have?
No? [Post edited 3 Sep 2020 18:47]
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:00 - Sep 3 with 1250 views | oeuf |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 17:40 - Sep 3 by Sadoldgit |
Do you honestly think that Starmer and the Labour Party would not be getting the same level of criticism if they were in power and doing the same things?
We elect people to run the country for us and if they do a poor job we are entitled to criticise them are we not?
Our future lies in the hands of these people and we are reliant on them not f*cking it up. |
Sog, come on, we ain't got to politicise everything mate. There's a vaccination apparently en route. Either be happy about or don't be. | | | |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:04 - Sep 3 with 1243 views | JaySaint |
hardly need a new vaccine with C19 is barely a thing in the UK
why we are continuing to destroy society and the economy is beyond me | |
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:08 - Sep 3 with 1240 views | franniesTache |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:04 - Sep 3 by JaySaint |
hardly need a new vaccine with C19 is barely a thing in the UK
why we are continuing to destroy society and the economy is beyond me |
65,000 people are dead, i'd definitely say it's a thing. |  | | |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:15 - Sep 3 with 1231 views | JaySaint |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:08 - Sep 3 by franniesTache |
65,000 people are dead, i'd definitely say it's a thing. |
amazing if how many were because of covid....but if they were, it is certainly not the case now.
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:31 - Sep 3 with 1212 views | franniesTache |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:15 - Sep 3 by JaySaint |
amazing if how many were because of covid....but if they were, it is certainly not the case now.
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Yes they all were from covid, people seem to get confused by the fact that the death certificate cites the cause of death on it, meaning the actual last action that killed someone.
So if you have a respiratory disease that stops your heart the cause of death would be heart failure, that heart failure could be brought on by something else - cited elsewhere - but the direct cause of death would be heart failure.
The 65,000 deaths in the UK, something like 1.6m worldwide i think, from Covid in roughly 7/8months of the year is astonishingly high.
In April covid related deaths were higher than the number of deaths by both lung cancer and strokes.
If you compare it to it's loose cousin flu, Covid-19 has a 16 times higher death rate, which increases for older and more vulnerable people.
In the US Covid-19 is the 6th most common cause of death this year behind heart disease, cancer, accidents, lower chronic respiratory diseases and stroke.
Now if we assume that aside from accidents it's entirely possible Covid was also responsible for some of those turning to fatalities it's impact is even more dire.
A good US based comparison is that Covid-19 (in less that 7/8months) has killed more Americans than have died in every US war since the Korean War.
There's also pretty strong evidence that in the UK care home figures weren't included in the number of deaths, which means we could be seeing a far lower figure than reality.
So yeah it's definitely something to take seriously. | | | |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:33 - Sep 3 with 1208 views | JaySaint |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:31 - Sep 3 by franniesTache |
Yes they all were from covid, people seem to get confused by the fact that the death certificate cites the cause of death on it, meaning the actual last action that killed someone.
So if you have a respiratory disease that stops your heart the cause of death would be heart failure, that heart failure could be brought on by something else - cited elsewhere - but the direct cause of death would be heart failure.
The 65,000 deaths in the UK, something like 1.6m worldwide i think, from Covid in roughly 7/8months of the year is astonishingly high.
In April covid related deaths were higher than the number of deaths by both lung cancer and strokes.
If you compare it to it's loose cousin flu, Covid-19 has a 16 times higher death rate, which increases for older and more vulnerable people.
In the US Covid-19 is the 6th most common cause of death this year behind heart disease, cancer, accidents, lower chronic respiratory diseases and stroke.
Now if we assume that aside from accidents it's entirely possible Covid was also responsible for some of those turning to fatalities it's impact is even more dire.
A good US based comparison is that Covid-19 (in less that 7/8months) has killed more Americans than have died in every US war since the Korean War.
There's also pretty strong evidence that in the UK care home figures weren't included in the number of deaths, which means we could be seeing a far lower figure than reality.
So yeah it's definitely something to take seriously. |
continue to destroy the economy when people in the single digits are dying from it...?
fair enough, that is one view and something that will hit our pockets in an astronomical way very soon | |
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:35 - Sep 3 with 1204 views | franniesTache |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:33 - Sep 3 by JaySaint |
continue to destroy the economy when people in the single digits are dying from it...?
fair enough, that is one view and something that will hit our pockets in an astronomical way very soon |
Again this is american based but this statistician puts that point into perspective too
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:42 - Sep 3 with 1195 views | JaySaint |
but we are in single digits on deaths. single digits is miles from 1% | |
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 20:11 - Sep 3 with 1174 views | Boris_ |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:08 - Sep 3 by franniesTache |
65,000 people are dead, i'd definitely say it's a thing. |
And many of them dead because of lockdown and NOT Covid. | |
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 20:13 - Sep 3 with 1172 views | Boris_ |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:35 - Sep 3 by franniesTache |
Again this is american based but this statistician puts that point into perspective too
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There's not a 1% mortality rate though or anywhere near that? That is fake news. | |
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 20:18 - Sep 3 with 1163 views | Boris_ |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:31 - Sep 3 by franniesTache |
Yes they all were from covid, people seem to get confused by the fact that the death certificate cites the cause of death on it, meaning the actual last action that killed someone.
So if you have a respiratory disease that stops your heart the cause of death would be heart failure, that heart failure could be brought on by something else - cited elsewhere - but the direct cause of death would be heart failure.
The 65,000 deaths in the UK, something like 1.6m worldwide i think, from Covid in roughly 7/8months of the year is astonishingly high.
In April covid related deaths were higher than the number of deaths by both lung cancer and strokes.
If you compare it to it's loose cousin flu, Covid-19 has a 16 times higher death rate, which increases for older and more vulnerable people.
In the US Covid-19 is the 6th most common cause of death this year behind heart disease, cancer, accidents, lower chronic respiratory diseases and stroke.
Now if we assume that aside from accidents it's entirely possible Covid was also responsible for some of those turning to fatalities it's impact is even more dire.
A good US based comparison is that Covid-19 (in less that 7/8months) has killed more Americans than have died in every US war since the Korean War.
There's also pretty strong evidence that in the UK care home figures weren't included in the number of deaths, which means we could be seeing a far lower figure than reality.
So yeah it's definitely something to take seriously. |
That's fake news too mush. They weren't all from Covid. Firstly, the numbers are 41,000, not 65,000 you keep mentioning. Don't confuse Covid figures with excess deaths and assume all excess deaths are from Covid because you are wrong.
Also don't assume all 41,000 reported 'Covid deaths' are from Covid because again you would be wrong. The reported figures are from ALL deaths that have Covid mentioned on the death certificate. To have it on the death certificate they will have needed to test positive or have Covid for up to 28 days prior to their death.
I am not saying that Covid shouldn't be taken seriously... but use the correct figures and don't exaggerate them to suit the argument. | |
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 20:19 - Sep 3 with 1164 views | Kennington |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 20:13 - Sep 3 by Boris_ |
There's not a 1% mortality rate though or anywhere near that? That is fake news. |
A lot of the points above, I was making on here back in April. Mortality is the crudest metric of health we have. Health is not just life or death! People need to use more nuanced metrics than death/mortality rates to assess the negative health impacts of covid, as after all health is a spectrum. We are now finding many people with covid now face months of recovery and it’s a complex illness to say the least. The obsession with mortality data is frankly quite odd. | |
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 20:26 - Sep 3 with 1156 views | Waylander |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 20:19 - Sep 3 by Kennington |
A lot of the points above, I was making on here back in April. Mortality is the crudest metric of health we have. Health is not just life or death! People need to use more nuanced metrics than death/mortality rates to assess the negative health impacts of covid, as after all health is a spectrum. We are now finding many people with covid now face months of recovery and it’s a complex illness to say the least. The obsession with mortality data is frankly quite odd. |
Quite right. Many survivors, including people who were not hospitalised, will have lasting damage.
https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-causes-heart-damage-healthy-people.html | | | |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 20:35 - Sep 3 with 1145 views | Boris_ |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 20:19 - Sep 3 by Kennington |
A lot of the points above, I was making on here back in April. Mortality is the crudest metric of health we have. Health is not just life or death! People need to use more nuanced metrics than death/mortality rates to assess the negative health impacts of covid, as after all health is a spectrum. We are now finding many people with covid now face months of recovery and it’s a complex illness to say the least. The obsession with mortality data is frankly quite odd. |
Any 'rate' or 'chart' is pretty crude. This pandemic has been played out like it's the Eurovision Song Contest and figures largely exaggerated to suit a political agenda or played down to suit another.
You cannot compare country to country either but those that wish to politicise it will do. | |
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| New vaccine by Christmas on 21:28 - Sep 3 with 1095 views | franniesTache |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 19:42 - Sep 3 by JaySaint |
but we are in single digits on deaths. single digits is miles from 1% |
We are in single figure deaths, which is fantastic, and a testemant to the fact controls are working, things such as lockdown, social distancing and masks are doing their bit.
It also speaks to the majority of people who are doing their best and being responsible, which despite the over the top reaction is a majority of the country, and that's also great.
It's also a great indictment of the NHS and how they've coped, i don't think we could be more proud of our NHS right now surely? And the fact we're learning how to control the worst cases through things like commonly used steroids (again something that's great to see).
But we mustn't confuse and conflate death rate with infection rate, the virus hasn't become any less infectious and if we open up fully numbers will jump again and more people will needlessly die.
You're right in saying we need to get the economy going again, many, many people are at risk of losing their jobs, their houses and so much more, it's grim and god knows how we address, i wouldn't fancy being in the governments shoes right now to be honest as there's no easy answer that gets it right.
I'm actually in a relatively privileged position where i'm speaking fairly regularly with some of the most senior people at some of the biggest brand companies in the world (and UK) and more than a few have basically said anyone still on furlough now probably doesn't have a job to go back to.
That's really damn scary to be honest and it's not out the realms of possibility that we could see 3-4m unemployed in this country as a result.
Our best hope though is slowly bringing society back to normal and crossing everything a vaccine is found.
Also not shouting fake news at things we don't like (when they're literally facts) doesn't help any of us.
And anyway even if some things are wrong would you really want to be the person that accidentally killed a family member or made them gravely ill (my other half is in her 6month ill right now and went for an ECG today to check for long term heart damage) because you thought something was "fake news", because i'm sure as sh*t i wouldn't. | | | |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 22:26 - Sep 3 with 1060 views | oeuf |
Absolutely this. It's easy to focus on the death ratio in an attempt to minimise the issue. It's more than that though. I know people who have life long complications from covid. People in their forties. No health issues. Physically fit. It's a hideous virus. | | | |
| New vaccine by Christmas on 22:53 - Sep 3 with 1039 views | Gennaro_Contaldo |
Why do people go on about deaths being so low, when the most crucial graph is here, detailing the rise in cases; https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases
These cases are primarily among the young and stupid who are mingling without a care in the world, once these cretins start seeing older and vulnerable people, of course hospitalisations and deaths will increase rapidly again. |  |
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