| Brexit Progress 10:06 - Sep 6 with 40058 views | Batterseajack |
Michael Gove “we hold all the cards and can choose the path we want”
Boris Johnson “continue to be free trade and access to the single market”
David Davis “We will do deals with our trading partners and do them quickly”
Well these quotes couldn't seem further from truth right now. They campaigned for Brexit , yet now these three are in positions of power, appear totally incapable of delivering it and have vastly underestimated and misunderstood their counterparts in the EU. Will these three or even the Tories ever be accountable for how Brexit is being carried out?
BTW - This is not intended as another argument for the rights and wrongs for voting to leave / remain. But to discuss the politicians who appear to have no plan whatsoever for this. |  | | |  |
| Brexit Progress on 14:33 - Sep 7 with 1902 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Brexit Progress on 13:18 - Sep 7 by PozuelosSideys |
Not necessarily. Depends on the wording of the contract and the reasons for dismissal.
Anyway, an employee/employer contract is nothing like this situation |
Let's assume the EU haven't been dismissed for gross misconduct. | | | |
| Brexit Progress on 14:37 - Sep 7 with 1897 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Brexit Progress on 14:33 - Sep 7 by londonlisa2001 |
Let's assume the EU haven't been dismissed for gross misconduct. |
 I dunno mind, im sure i could find something to run past Legal to make their redundancy calculation significantly less lucrative.
Still depends. FTC on good terms, yep, absolutely have to pay it all up. A bullet proof contract (im assuming you have one of these ;)) is formulaic. Average joe unfortunately reverts to statutory minimum. (excl. TUPE) |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Brexit Progress on 14:39 - Sep 7 with 1895 views | Batterseajack |
| Brexit Progress on 14:26 - Sep 7 by PozuelosSideys |
Thanks. Cant access the FT site, so will assume you have pulled the key notes out.
Doesnt really provide what the UK is expected to contribute to each of those areas though does it, regardless of whether we were in or out of the EU? They are just total expected costs. None of those things would be acceptable incurred costs for the UK, unless pension liabilities and loan coverage were linked to UK persons.
Edit: if there are subsets of UK data, can you post them up? [Post edited 7 Sep 2017 14:27]
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weird, i'm having trouble with that link now as well. I've screen grabbed it and put it on this link. Slow day at work today....
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/B0zKV3jjPvj4eAFwDwfdM_7T0M5ZA4T9s2I_02zfHTz-ph [Post edited 7 Sep 2017 14:40]
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| Brexit Progress on 14:45 - Sep 7 with 1879 views | PozuelosSideys |
Ta, thats helpful. Its still pretty vague, but its useful nonethless.
I can imagine the UK having zero issue stumping up for pension liabilities. That 'reste a liqiuder' reads as though the UK is yet to pay its share for work already done - in which case the UK needs to pay up its share. These items should be pro-rated to cover the UK share only - clearly not the total amounts as noted in that chart. Hopefully there are more detailed drill-downs of what those totals contain.
The rest of the requests theyve made can fck off as far as im concerned, and the rest of us should be of the same view as there is no inherent benefit to any UK citizen to provide funding to any future EU projects.
Can see why there are challenges everywhere by the UK though. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Brexit Progress on 14:50 - Sep 7 with 1867 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Brexit Progress on 14:37 - Sep 7 by PozuelosSideys |
I dunno mind, im sure i could find something to run past Legal to make their redundancy calculation significantly less lucrative.
Still depends. FTC on good terms, yep, absolutely have to pay it all up. A bullet proof contract (im assuming you have one of these ;)) is formulaic. Average joe unfortunately reverts to statutory minimum. (excl. TUPE) |
That's redundancy not a sacking.
It's basic contract law that applies (in employment and here). If you enter into a contract and under that contract you agree to future actions, you can't just walk away from it because you want to. Equally the the side can't force you to give up rights under that contract without your agreement. | | | |
| Brexit Progress on 14:54 - Sep 7 with 1859 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Brexit Progress on 14:50 - Sep 7 by londonlisa2001 |
That's redundancy not a sacking.
It's basic contract law that applies (in employment and here). If you enter into a contract and under that contract you agree to future actions, you can't just walk away from it because you want to. Equally the the side can't force you to give up rights under that contract without your agreement. |
The UK/EU split is not the equivalent of a sacking though? Its the equivalent of a redundancy? | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Brexit Progress on 15:06 - Sep 7 with 1846 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Brexit Progress on 14:54 - Sep 7 by PozuelosSideys |
The UK/EU split is not the equivalent of a sacking though? Its the equivalent of a redundancy? |
No.
A redundancy is something ceasing to exist so it's impossible for the contract to continue which is obviously not the case here.
That would be more akin to the dissolution of the EU. If that happened, contracts that we had committed to could longer happen.
It's like a divorce if you prefer. If both parties had committed to future expenditure, one can't walk away and say 'not my problem'. | | | |
| Brexit Progress on 15:08 - Sep 7 with 1844 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Brexit Progress on 15:06 - Sep 7 by londonlisa2001 |
No.
A redundancy is something ceasing to exist so it's impossible for the contract to continue which is obviously not the case here.
That would be more akin to the dissolution of the EU. If that happened, contracts that we had committed to could longer happen.
It's like a divorce if you prefer. If both parties had committed to future expenditure, one can't walk away and say 'not my problem'. |
Definitely more like a divorce.
So how come the UK legal community does not agree with your position here? Or am i mixing things up? | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Brexit Progress on 15:09 - Sep 7 with 1842 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Brexit Progress on 15:08 - Sep 7 by PozuelosSideys |
Definitely more like a divorce.
So how come the UK legal community does not agree with your position here? Or am i mixing things up? |
Don't know what you mean by the UK legal community not agreeing? | | | |
| Brexit Progress on 15:10 - Sep 7 with 1838 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Brexit Progress on 15:09 - Sep 7 by londonlisa2001 |
Don't know what you mean by the UK legal community not agreeing? |
UK legal advice is that we are not under obligation to pay for a number of those ites? | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Brexit Progress on 15:12 - Sep 7 with 1835 views | PozuelosSideys |
Sorry, im flooding this thread with posts.
This whole thing looks more like no deal with every passing day. One of my biggest concerns is that theyve started meddling in the Irish border issue. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Brexit Progress on 15:32 - Sep 7 with 1818 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Brexit Progress on 15:10 - Sep 7 by PozuelosSideys |
UK legal advice is that we are not under obligation to pay for a number of those ites? |
Oh, I see what you mean.
The debate is over which items are actually a legal commitment and which aren't. Not whether we are obliged to pay for our legal commitments. Everyone agrees that we are (obviously not talking idiots like Farage etc here).
It's a negotiation. The EU are going to say that everything mooted before the split is in effect a legal commitment, whereas the U.K. are going to say that items not actually formalised and agreed are not. The agreement will be somewhere in between (which doesn't mean the middle). Using the divorce analogy, it's like saying that there is a holiday that both partners had talked about, got the brochures for, maybe even booked the time off work. One will say it's a commitment, the other will say not. But even more complicated, what if the 20% deposit had been paid, but the date hadn't come round for the rest? Again, is that a commitment to pay the full amount? The EU will probably take the position that it is, whereas the U.K. will argue that there was no legal agreement to pay the remaining 80% as we may have said no the day before and lost our deposit. That sort of thing may depend on who had the power to say 'no'. If the remaining 27 countries would have all pushed ahead, we may not have been able to say no, in which case that's what the EU will argue. We will argue that no ones knows what may have happened. | | | |
| Brexit Progress on 16:05 - Sep 7 with 1807 views | monmouth |
It really doesn't help that the uk negotiations are being led by mouthy headline hungry morons with no cards to play shouting about their aces. These c*nts will plunge the country into poverty and extreme civil discontent (notice I'm not saying that Brexit has to do that)' but they won't care as they will remain smug and protected by private health, private police and private schools. I wish we had a successful 2017 Guy Forkes. |  |
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| Brexit Progress on 16:09 - Sep 7 with 1804 views | wobbly |
Looks like bad news for the EU there, if a deal can't be negotiated. It will be a miracle if Barnier can get the EU out of the hole they are facing.
The current second largest contributor to the EU budget looks like it may crash out of the union in less than 18 months time, with no agreement reached on settling financial obligations, which means nothing will get paid. The inevitable black hole in EU funding for the financial years following Brexit will now need to be covered by the other member states, none of which have budgeted for making up the shortfall of the UK contribution.*
*this may not be being reported in the link above or any other newspapers either. |  | | |
| Brexit Progress on 16:20 - Sep 7 with 1794 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Brexit Progress on 16:09 - Sep 7 by wobbly |
Looks like bad news for the EU there, if a deal can't be negotiated. It will be a miracle if Barnier can get the EU out of the hole they are facing.
The current second largest contributor to the EU budget looks like it may crash out of the union in less than 18 months time, with no agreement reached on settling financial obligations, which means nothing will get paid. The inevitable black hole in EU funding for the financial years following Brexit will now need to be covered by the other member states, none of which have budgeted for making up the shortfall of the UK contribution.*
*this may not be being reported in the link above or any other newspapers either. |
It's been reported widely after the House of Lords came to that conclusion some months ago.
However, the hole that they would face would be minuscule compared to the hole that we would face. | | | |
| Brexit Progress on 17:14 - Sep 7 with 1773 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Brexit Progress on 15:32 - Sep 7 by londonlisa2001 |
Oh, I see what you mean.
The debate is over which items are actually a legal commitment and which aren't. Not whether we are obliged to pay for our legal commitments. Everyone agrees that we are (obviously not talking idiots like Farage etc here).
It's a negotiation. The EU are going to say that everything mooted before the split is in effect a legal commitment, whereas the U.K. are going to say that items not actually formalised and agreed are not. The agreement will be somewhere in between (which doesn't mean the middle). Using the divorce analogy, it's like saying that there is a holiday that both partners had talked about, got the brochures for, maybe even booked the time off work. One will say it's a commitment, the other will say not. But even more complicated, what if the 20% deposit had been paid, but the date hadn't come round for the rest? Again, is that a commitment to pay the full amount? The EU will probably take the position that it is, whereas the U.K. will argue that there was no legal agreement to pay the remaining 80% as we may have said no the day before and lost our deposit. That sort of thing may depend on who had the power to say 'no'. If the remaining 27 countries would have all pushed ahead, we may not have been able to say no, in which case that's what the EU will argue. We will argue that no ones knows what may have happened. |
Exactly. Couldnt agree more. I suspect the EU expects the UK to pay the bundled figure containing all sorts of murky items, whereas the UK wants to go through line by line and see what it feels its liable for. Extremely complicated for something like pension costs alone, let alone items such as investments etc.
The UK asset disclosures are conspicuous by their absence though. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Brexit Progress on 17:26 - Sep 7 with 1761 views | westwalesed |
Been trying not to bite on this thread, but I can't help myself.
Barnier has been putting this idea about that the UK needs to tart "negotiating seriously" as if our team a re bunch of incompetents. It's true that the UK has been bad at articulating exactly what they want but I see this more of a case of "keeping our powder dry" than anything else. The simple fact is that the EU has more to gain than we do from a favourable exit and a good free trade agreement. We sold them £240billons worth last year, they sold us £310 billions worth. Barnier himself is living in a fantasy word - talking about a "ticking clock" - but the fact is that all these delays hurt his position as much as ours. The difference though is key - and is why I voted to leave the EU. Barnier and his team are answerable to no-one. They are the embodiment of EU dictatorial behaviour. All that matters to him is "punishing" the UK and tacitly warning all other EU countries what will happen if they defy the EU Super-state.
I think the UK team should just go over their heads and start lobbying Governments in the EU directly. Can you imagine the French or Germans tolerating this no deal situation next year? I don't think so. At what cost do the remaining EU Governments tolerate Barnier et al trying to secure a moral victory over the UK team? And while we are at it, start negotiating a free trade deal with the USA and China - two of the biggest economies in the world - who we don't have a free trade deal with because as members of the EU (and the EU doesn't have one) we can't have one. That could wipe out the perceived loss in our economic relationship with the EU.
To succeed we should stay patient and call Barnier's bluff by preparing a coherent plan for a no deal scenario.
Keep calm and carry on and all that. | |
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| Brexit Progress on 18:00 - Sep 7 with 1747 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Brexit Progress on 17:26 - Sep 7 by westwalesed |
Been trying not to bite on this thread, but I can't help myself.
Barnier has been putting this idea about that the UK needs to tart "negotiating seriously" as if our team a re bunch of incompetents. It's true that the UK has been bad at articulating exactly what they want but I see this more of a case of "keeping our powder dry" than anything else. The simple fact is that the EU has more to gain than we do from a favourable exit and a good free trade agreement. We sold them £240billons worth last year, they sold us £310 billions worth. Barnier himself is living in a fantasy word - talking about a "ticking clock" - but the fact is that all these delays hurt his position as much as ours. The difference though is key - and is why I voted to leave the EU. Barnier and his team are answerable to no-one. They are the embodiment of EU dictatorial behaviour. All that matters to him is "punishing" the UK and tacitly warning all other EU countries what will happen if they defy the EU Super-state.
I think the UK team should just go over their heads and start lobbying Governments in the EU directly. Can you imagine the French or Germans tolerating this no deal situation next year? I don't think so. At what cost do the remaining EU Governments tolerate Barnier et al trying to secure a moral victory over the UK team? And while we are at it, start negotiating a free trade deal with the USA and China - two of the biggest economies in the world - who we don't have a free trade deal with because as members of the EU (and the EU doesn't have one) we can't have one. That could wipe out the perceived loss in our economic relationship with the EU.
To succeed we should stay patient and call Barnier's bluff by preparing a coherent plan for a no deal scenario.
Keep calm and carry on and all that. |
Let me help.
UK negotiating team are amateurs and as thick as shite.
The EU negotiating team are professionals and educated people.
We are fecked.
And no deal is the worst possible deal for all.
This option is favoured by morons. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexit Progress on 18:03 - Sep 7 with 1742 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Brexit Progress on 15:12 - Sep 7 by PozuelosSideys |
Sorry, im flooding this thread with posts.
This whole thing looks more like no deal with every passing day. One of my biggest concerns is that theyve started meddling in the Irish border issue. |
By 'they' do you mean the UK govt meddling in the north of Ireland ?
I guess you must do as the UK started Brexit. Not the EU. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexit Progress on 18:22 - Sep 7 with 1729 views | 73_Symonds_Yat |
The nonsense written in this thread is unbelievable (well not really) as most are snowflakes.
The UK owes the e u absolute nothing and there is no such thing as a hard/soft Brexit.
The British people have voted to leave the Frankenstein project, thankfully, and no amount of crying from the remoaners will change that.
If any of you wish to live in the e u , then I'm sure you can find your way to the nearest airport/ferry port.
Please leave and leave the rest of us to get on with our lives, free from the constant "throwing the toys" out of the pram. YOU WON'T BE MISSED.......  | | | |
| Brexit Progress on 18:25 - Sep 7 with 1726 views | 73_Symonds_Yat |
| Brexit Progress on 18:03 - Sep 7 by Kilkennyjack |
By 'they' do you mean the UK govt meddling in the north of Ireland ?
I guess you must do as the UK started Brexit. Not the EU. |
The rep of Ireland should keep their noses out of the Northern Ireland as Northern Ireland is part of the Uk. | | | |
| Brexit Progress on 18:26 - Sep 7 with 1725 views | nice_to_michu |
| Brexit Progress on 18:22 - Sep 7 by 73_Symonds_Yat |
The nonsense written in this thread is unbelievable (well not really) as most are snowflakes.
The UK owes the e u absolute nothing and there is no such thing as a hard/soft Brexit.
The British people have voted to leave the Frankenstein project, thankfully, and no amount of crying from the remoaners will change that.
If any of you wish to live in the e u , then I'm sure you can find your way to the nearest airport/ferry port.
Please leave and leave the rest of us to get on with our lives, free from the constant "throwing the toys" out of the pram. YOU WON'T BE MISSED....... |
That was an impressively ignorant post for something only five sentences long.
Bravo. |  | | |
| Brexit Progress on 18:29 - Sep 7 with 1722 views | 73_Symonds_Yat |
| Brexit Progress on 18:26 - Sep 7 by nice_to_michu |
That was an impressively ignorant post for something only five sentences long.
Bravo. |
I couldn't give a shite what you think. The UK 🇬🇧 is leaving end of ....go and cry. | | | |
| Brexit Progress on 18:30 - Sep 7 with 1717 views | Meraki |
| Brexit Progress on 18:29 - Sep 7 by 73_Symonds_Yat |
I couldn't give a shite what you think. The UK 🇬🇧 is leaving end of ....go and cry. |
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