| Our Club Captain 16:59 - Dec 10 with 6785 views | londonlisa2001 |
In my view, questions need to be asked about the role that Ashley Williams has at the club and whether it is time for him to be replaced as club and team captain.
For a long time I've been concerned that he is not a leader of men - his head goes down quicker than almost anyone else in the team, and that is not what you want or need. In addition, his own form has been decidedly average and I'm not convinced he should remain undroppable.
But apart from all that, we are reading constant stories about players not being prepared to accept Monk's advice / tactics / being miffed that he wasn't effusive enough in celebrating their international achievements. We've also read about cliques, fallings out, even bust ups between players. And it's not for the first time that all of this is rearing its head.
So what exactly then is the club captain's role in all this? Doesn't he have a responsibility to sort out player feuds or issues, and get the squad together behind the manager, whoever that happens to be at any given time? Surely the captain is a mediator, a leader, a genuine link between the 'club' and the players?
I don't know who should be club captain or team captain, or whether they should be the same person, but I can't help feeling that we can and should be looking for someone to provide leadership in a crisis, and Williams seems yet again, to be unable or unwilling to do this. |  | | |  |
| Our Club Captain on 17:11 - Dec 10 with 4769 views | Molliemick |
Right? Monk's gone,let's pick on Williams? | | | |
| Our Club Captain on 17:11 - Dec 10 with 4769 views | swan65split |
We will see in the next game, win lose or draw who is who! |  | | |
| Our Club Captain on 17:12 - Dec 10 with 4759 views | Jackfath |
He needs to be told to stop trying to be hard off the ball. If he wants impress his prowess against percieved weaker opposition then do it with a firm but fair challenge time in time out. Not chasing after players to get the ball back and playing like some amateur chasing players around long after the whistle has blown.
He's the captain of our football club and therefore is our representative. Start acting like it. |  |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:13 - Dec 10 with 4736 views | Borojack |
Its all conjecture though.
Monk held grudges you only have to read his book to see that.
And at the end of the day its always the manager who loses out. |  |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:13 - Dec 10 with 4735 views | Darran |
He's been one of the greatest players in our history and a superb captain. |  |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:13 - Dec 10 with 4734 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Our Club Captain on 17:11 - Dec 10 by Molliemick |
Right? Monk's gone,let's pick on Williams? |
I'm not picking on him in the slightest and I can't imagine he'd give a crap what anyone on here said.
But given the reports of players all creating havoc every couple of years, don't you think Williams has some culpability or is it all just Monk in your view? | | | |
| Our Club Captain on 17:16 - Dec 10 with 4694 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Our Club Captain on 17:13 - Dec 10 by Darran |
He's been one of the greatest players in our history and a superb captain. |
Being a great player (which I agree, he has been) and being a superb captain are two very different things.
What examples do you have of him being a superb captain? Because when the team is playing well it's a nothing job, when the problems start is when they get counted, and to me, he seems to have failed?
If the squad have a massive falling out with the manager and won't play for him, how is that not partly down to the captain? | | | |
| Our Club Captain on 17:20 - Dec 10 with 4640 views | Darran |
| Our Club Captain on 17:16 - Dec 10 by londonlisa2001 |
Being a great player (which I agree, he has been) and being a superb captain are two very different things.
What examples do you have of him being a superb captain? Because when the team is playing well it's a nothing job, when the problems start is when they get counted, and to me, he seems to have failed?
If the squad have a massive falling out with the manager and won't play for him, how is that not partly down to the captain? |
Nah he hasn't failed he's always led us superbly. | |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:22 - Dec 10 with 4613 views | Borojack |
| Our Club Captain on 17:16 - Dec 10 by londonlisa2001 |
Being a great player (which I agree, he has been) and being a superb captain are two very different things.
What examples do you have of him being a superb captain? Because when the team is playing well it's a nothing job, when the problems start is when they get counted, and to me, he seems to have failed?
If the squad have a massive falling out with the manager and won't play for him, how is that not partly down to the captain? |
Yes it is but nobody really knows what has gone on.
If you believe all the stories Ash and Monk were knocking on Huws door prior Laudrup going.
And Monk had the fight with Chico does make you wonder well it does me anyway.
Karma I think is the word I am looking for. | |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:24 - Dec 10 with 4597 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Our Club Captain on 17:20 - Dec 10 by Darran |
Nah he hasn't failed he's always led us superbly. |
Yeah, so you said, but I asked for an example.
I'm talking about being club captain Darr - do you think it's all Monk's fault then that our players are behaving like a bunch of 5 year olds who didn't get as many presents as they wanted? No role for a club captain in sorting out players fighting, or stomping off because they are on the bench? A better show of unity is to charge after another team's bus is it? | | | |
| Our Club Captain on 17:26 - Dec 10 with 4568 views | Neath_Jack |
He's a useless captain when the chips are down, as you rightly pointed out.
I noticed Neil Taylor was giving the talk in the team huddle against Liverpool (think it was that game anyway). Bale is the driving force in the Welsh team too, and i don't mean ability wise.
He's been a fantastic player for us over the years, no question. This season he has been a shower of shite though. |  |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:26 - Dec 10 with 4565 views | Darran |
| Our Club Captain on 17:24 - Dec 10 by londonlisa2001 |
Yeah, so you said, but I asked for an example.
I'm talking about being club captain Darr - do you think it's all Monk's fault then that our players are behaving like a bunch of 5 year olds who didn't get as many presents as they wanted? No role for a club captain in sorting out players fighting, or stomping off because they are on the bench? A better show of unity is to charge after another team's bus is it? |
I don't think his head drops I think he always takes it personally,you're making too much off it IMO Lis. | |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:30 - Dec 10 with 4526 views | Elward |
I just think he's been crap this year and needs some time on the bench. Last year and previous ones ge has been great. This year not so much. The Stoke game where Bojan dicked him and he got embarassed is sticking in my head. | | | |
| Our Club Captain on 17:34 - Dec 10 with 4503 views | Dr_Winston |
The whole team has underperformed this season. I see no reason to single out Ash the same way I see no reason to single out others.
The change in coaching staff should put an end to that as long as Huw recruits wisely. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:36 - Dec 10 with 4473 views | Nogginthenog |
It could be that his ever presence has caused some burn out, he is a great player no doubt but even the best need a rest. |  | | |
| Our Club Captain on 17:37 - Dec 10 with 4467 views | AyewSerious |
I dont think a captain should be judged on whether there are rifts in the team or not. There are rifts everywhere, in all workplaces across the world, especially if things arent going well. Football is no different, in fact, probably more prone to this due to the competitive nature of professional sportsmen.
Of course, the obvious answer regarding examples - is that unless you are a member of the team it is pretty hard to give any. He may have put dozens of personal squabbles to bed, that as a result you would have never hear of.
Williams seems to command respect and exude authority, i am sure our young players look up to him, as they should. He is a fine leader, a colossus most times on the pitch with commitment levels rarely seen these days for both club and country.
I understand people have differing views, but Ashley Williams as captain is one of the things we can boast of amongst the mess of this season, and hopefully we can for many more years to come. | | | |
| Our Club Captain on 17:37 - Dec 10 with 4457 views | hammy |
| Our Club Captain on 17:16 - Dec 10 by londonlisa2001 |
Being a great player (which I agree, he has been) and being a superb captain are two very different things.
What examples do you have of him being a superb captain? Because when the team is playing well it's a nothing job, when the problems start is when they get counted, and to me, he seems to have failed?
If the squad have a massive falling out with the manager and won't play for him, how is that not partly down to the captain? |
IMO I think a football club captain has little, if no, off field authority these days. The club needs to pick a figurehead, in essence to be a conduit to the ref during a game, but apart from that I seriously don't believe they have or want much more accountability. All players, including club captains, are just very expensive assets that are picked to play as required by the manager and then sold on as needed. Most players these days have an inflated sense of their importance due to the inflated fees they earn and if they are not prepared to listen to a manager then I fail to see how a captain would do any better. I suspect at the top end the modern football club environment is similar to working within the film industry ... lots of talented but over paid egos to be managed ! |  |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:40 - Dec 10 with 4434 views | Cooperman |
He's one of the most consistent PL defenders of the past 4 years or so. Whilst his form of late may be questioned by some it seems that there are some mitigating circumstances. He's not blessed with pace but his positioning has always been outstanding which in one respect nullifies the pace issue. He's one of the first names to go onto the teamsheet as far as I'm concerned.
However Lisa asks a very good question regarding the role of captain in player mediation etc. We simply don't know what he has / has not done and said over the past 2 weeks, but I sure know what I would have liked him to have done in this role and that includes attemptint to defuse player confrontation and feuding. |  |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:45 - Dec 10 with 4402 views | AyewSerious |
| Our Club Captain on 17:40 - Dec 10 by Cooperman |
He's one of the most consistent PL defenders of the past 4 years or so. Whilst his form of late may be questioned by some it seems that there are some mitigating circumstances. He's not blessed with pace but his positioning has always been outstanding which in one respect nullifies the pace issue. He's one of the first names to go onto the teamsheet as far as I'm concerned.
However Lisa asks a very good question regarding the role of captain in player mediation etc. We simply don't know what he has / has not done and said over the past 2 weeks, but I sure know what I would have liked him to have done in this role and that includes attemptint to defuse player confrontation and feuding. |
But maybe he has. For every 10 arguments he has sorted out you may have heard about 1 of them. Sorting out rifts before they get heated is hardly news worthy, you simply would never know. This feels a bit like looking for blame for the sake of it, which I understand due to the fact we are in a position we have not been used ti being in for over a decade.
Ashley Williams is a superb captain and has not only led us but also his country through their most successful periods of all time, Shelvey wanting to push Gylfi in training or such like doesnt take away from the mans leadership qualities. [Post edited 10 Dec 2015 17:46]
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| Our Club Captain on 17:47 - Dec 10 with 4375 views | Cooperman |
| Our Club Captain on 17:45 - Dec 10 by AyewSerious |
But maybe he has. For every 10 arguments he has sorted out you may have heard about 1 of them. Sorting out rifts before they get heated is hardly news worthy, you simply would never know. This feels a bit like looking for blame for the sake of it, which I understand due to the fact we are in a position we have not been used ti being in for over a decade.
Ashley Williams is a superb captain and has not only led us but also his country through their most successful periods of all time, Shelvey wanting to push Gylfi in training or such like doesnt take away from the mans leadership qualities. [Post edited 10 Dec 2015 17:46]
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I agree. | |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:47 - Dec 10 with 4363 views | ItchySphincter |
He's a bit thick but a leader and a winner on the pitch. A decent influence in the side. |  |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:48 - Dec 10 with 4359 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Our Club Captain on 17:26 - Dec 10 by Darran |
I don't think his head drops I think he always takes it personally,you're making too much off it IMO Lis. |
OK that's fine - it was a debate rather than an expectation that everyone would agree!
I think his performance has suffered this season but in general is one of the first names on the sheet for me.
But I just don't get him as captain. Never really have thought he does much when it's backs to the wall type stuff, other than yelling at other players and making out it's never his fault. | | | |
| Our Club Captain on 17:48 - Dec 10 with 4354 views | jackportis |
Why have a captain. Do what kids do and rotate the captain. All they do is flip a coin at the start. |  |
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| Our Club Captain on 17:50 - Dec 10 with 4339 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Our Club Captain on 17:34 - Dec 10 by Dr_Winston |
The whole team has underperformed this season. I see no reason to single out Ash the same way I see no reason to single out others.
The change in coaching staff should put an end to that as long as Huw recruits wisely. |
To clarify - I'm not highlighting his performance on the field (other than to say I don't believe he should be undroppable), it's as captain.
I agree in not wanting to single out an individual player in this bad run - oh, other than Ki - you lazy, lazy git. | | | |
| Our Club Captain on 17:51 - Dec 10 with 4329 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Our Club Captain on 17:37 - Dec 10 by AyewSerious |
I dont think a captain should be judged on whether there are rifts in the team or not. There are rifts everywhere, in all workplaces across the world, especially if things arent going well. Football is no different, in fact, probably more prone to this due to the competitive nature of professional sportsmen.
Of course, the obvious answer regarding examples - is that unless you are a member of the team it is pretty hard to give any. He may have put dozens of personal squabbles to bed, that as a result you would have never hear of.
Williams seems to command respect and exude authority, i am sure our young players look up to him, as they should. He is a fine leader, a colossus most times on the pitch with commitment levels rarely seen these days for both club and country.
I understand people have differing views, but Ashley Williams as captain is one of the things we can boast of amongst the mess of this season, and hopefully we can for many more years to come. |
thanks Ash :-) | | | |
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