| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage 13:12 - Oct 15 with 5636 views | epaul |
Charmimg person to have in govt
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/15/lord-freud-minimum-wage_n_5988374.htm
Lord Freud Urged To Resign For Saying Disabled 'Not Worth' Minimum Wage
Tory welfare minister Lord Freud has been urged to resign after he suggested that disabled people are "not worth" being paid the full minimum wage.
In response to a question about the disabled and the national minimum wage at a Tory party conference fringe meeting, the peer was recorded saying: "Now, there is a small…there is a group, and I know exactly who you mean, where actually as you say they’re not worth the full wage and actually I’m going to go and think about that particular issue, whether there is something we can do nationally, and without distorting the whole thing, which actually if someone wants to work for £2 an hour, and it’s working can we actually ... "
Labour leader Ed Miliband confronted David Cameron at Prime Minister's Questions over the Tory peer's "very serious" remarks, asking if he agreed that "disabled people should not be paid the minimum wage".
"Surely if someone holds those views, they can't stay in government?," he said, concluding: "In the dog days of this government the Conservative party is going back to its worst intincts - unfunded tax cuts, hitting the poorest - the nasty part is back."
The Prime Minister shot back, referring to his late disabled son: "I don't need lectures from anyone about looking after disabled people ... instead of casting aspersions why doesn't he get back to talking about the economy?"
He also distanced himself from Lord Freud's comments, saying: "Those are not the views of the government ,those are not the view of anyone in this government."
Speaking on the BBC's Daily Politics, welfare minister Esther McVey distanced herself from Lord Freud's remarks, saying that "those words will haunt him". She made clear that her fellow ministerial colleague would "have to explain himself".
The Prime Minister's spokesman later said: "I'm sure that Lord Freud will explain how he shares the Prime Minister's view."
Shadow leader of the Commons Angela Eagle wrote on Twitter that the Prime Minister should sack Lord Freud "if he had the guts" for his "disgraceful comments" about the disabled.
Shadow communities secretary Hilary Benn said: "Having just been disowned by the Prime Minister, why is Lord Freud still in his job?"
Tory councillor James Scott, whose question to Lord Freud resulted in the controversial answer, reportedly asked: "I have a number of mentally damaged individuals, who to be quite frank aren’t worth the Minimum Wage, but want to work. And we have been trying to support them in work, but you can’t find people who are willing to pay the Minimum Wage.
"We had a young man who was keen to do gardening; now the only way we managed to get him to work was actually setting up a company for him, because as a director in a company we didn’t have to pay the Minimum Wage, we could actually give him the earnings from that. How do you deal with those sort of cases?"
Lord Freud once worked as an adviser to James Purnell as work and pensions secretary in the last Labour government, before going on to join the Tories as a life peer. He previously admitted that he "didn’t know anything about welfare at all".
The Tory peer has caused his own share of controversies as a coalition minister, after attacking people for pursuing a "lifestyle" on benefits,, insisting there was no link between benefit cuts and an increased use of food banks, telling families hit by the bedroom tax can "go out to work or use a sofa bed", and likening benefit claimants to corpses. |  |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
| |  |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 21:08 - Oct 15 with 1631 views | the_oracle |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 15:49 - Oct 15 by epaul |
That raising of the threshold to n12500 will mean virtually nothing to people on that wage yet the cut the other end they are promising will mean at least an extra 2000 fr those with money.
Party of the poor aye, c*nts more like, excuse my french lisa seeing as i'm replying to a lady.
£2.50 an hour come you know they would never had introduced the min wage, look how theyre shafting the worse of and yes as a collective they would prefer people to be on less an hour, they'd rather take us back to the days of sweat shops |
The threshold applies to everyone, the rich and poor benefit. They ( the government) then raised the 40k threshold so the higher income groups got two tax cuts! But its the less well of who have to be grateful. |  | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 21:21 - Oct 15 with 1597 views | londonlisa2001 |
minimum wage is nothing to do with the EU and not all countries have it - I don't think Germany does for example. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 21:23 - Oct 15 with 1593 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 21:08 - Oct 15 by the_oracle |
The threshold applies to everyone, the rich and poor benefit. They ( the government) then raised the 40k threshold so the higher income groups got two tax cuts! But its the less well of who have to be grateful. |
no it doesn't - you start to lose your free band if you earn over £100k until it goes completely at about £118k or so I think.
Certainly well off at £100k - i wouldn't call someone who earns that in London rich to be honest given the cost of living even though it seems an awful lot compared to most people. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 21:27 - Oct 15 with 1589 views | jackonicko |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 21:08 - Oct 15 by the_oracle |
The threshold applies to everyone, the rich and poor benefit. They ( the government) then raised the 40k threshold so the higher income groups got two tax cuts! But its the less well of who have to be grateful. |
I don't think you've quite figured out how taxation works.
The raising of the lowest threshold helps the poorer paid the most. Raising it to £12,500 is a fantastic, progressive policy which incentivises people to work, knowing they get to keep all of what they earn. it only annoys me that the Lib Dems have to get credit for this - whereas it should have been a proper Tory policy.
The raising of the 40% tax band just extends when you start paying *even more* tax. It's not a tax cut. When you look at the much larger numbers caught in the 40p tax band compared to a few years ago, millions more now pay it than before, because the increases have been below pay increases. It's called fiscal drag. This is a bad thing, but is a sneaky way for Governments to increase the tax burden on those that shouldn't bear it.
For those on 100k, or more, they get no benefit as the tax allowance is reduced for every pound you earn over 100k. The highest earners therefore get no tax free threshold *at all*. Whilst inthe 100-116k bracket, the marginal rate of tax is actually 60% as the impact of that tax allowancet is withdrawn.
For all the complaints about tax cuts for millionaires, the top 1% of earners are paying more tax, both in total cash terms and in proportion to the total tax revenues, than ever before. I can't remember the latest stat, but its something like the top 1% pay about 30% of total income tax receipts. As Lisa said earlier, the Laffer curve is an inconvenient truth - raise the tax rates to 50p for the highest earners and you get less tax receipts in total than you do at 40p / £. Gordon Brown knew this, which is why this rate of tax was never imposed whilst he was Chancellor or PM.
Still, it makes for a good headline. |  | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 22:21 - Oct 15 with 1566 views | the_oracle |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 21:27 - Oct 15 by jackonicko |
I don't think you've quite figured out how taxation works.
The raising of the lowest threshold helps the poorer paid the most. Raising it to £12,500 is a fantastic, progressive policy which incentivises people to work, knowing they get to keep all of what they earn. it only annoys me that the Lib Dems have to get credit for this - whereas it should have been a proper Tory policy.
The raising of the 40% tax band just extends when you start paying *even more* tax. It's not a tax cut. When you look at the much larger numbers caught in the 40p tax band compared to a few years ago, millions more now pay it than before, because the increases have been below pay increases. It's called fiscal drag. This is a bad thing, but is a sneaky way for Governments to increase the tax burden on those that shouldn't bear it.
For those on 100k, or more, they get no benefit as the tax allowance is reduced for every pound you earn over 100k. The highest earners therefore get no tax free threshold *at all*. Whilst inthe 100-116k bracket, the marginal rate of tax is actually 60% as the impact of that tax allowancet is withdrawn.
For all the complaints about tax cuts for millionaires, the top 1% of earners are paying more tax, both in total cash terms and in proportion to the total tax revenues, than ever before. I can't remember the latest stat, but its something like the top 1% pay about 30% of total income tax receipts. As Lisa said earlier, the Laffer curve is an inconvenient truth - raise the tax rates to 50p for the highest earners and you get less tax receipts in total than you do at 40p / £. Gordon Brown knew this, which is why this rate of tax was never imposed whilst he was Chancellor or PM.
Still, it makes for a good headline. |
Please excuse my ignorance. So are you saying if you earn 50k or 60k or 99k you do not get the same benefit of the personal threshold, and you do not gain anything in your pay packet when the 40% tax band rises? | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 22:33 - Oct 15 with 1557 views | Catullus |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:43 - Oct 15 by londonlisa2001 |
agree with this as well.
They're all just a bad as each other. Not an actual opinion between them. |
Oh they do have actual opinions, just not anything they can say in public!!
If Freud isn't sacked very soon, it shows the truth of it, in my opinion. That being that he slipped out an opinion that may have support from higher up but which they aren't yet strong enough to let out. | |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 22:59 - Oct 15 with 1532 views | jackonicko |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 22:21 - Oct 15 by the_oracle |
Please excuse my ignorance. So are you saying if you earn 50k or 60k or 99k you do not get the same benefit of the personal threshold, and you do not gain anything in your pay packet when the 40% tax band rises? |
Not in reality, no.
Due to the time value of money, £40k today is worth less than £40k a year ago. The threshold bands have been frozen for multiple years, which means that has been an effective tax increase, Which is why millions more are in the 40% band. This used to be the higher rate band for the "rich" but is now filled with teachers, police officers, and many others who would certainly not classify themselves as rich. And no one else would either.
Raising the tax bands in line with inflation is not a tax cut.
This is not the same for the lower threshold. This is being raised by many multiples of inflation. This is an effective tax cut - and rightly so because it benefits those who need it most. It puts hundreds of pounds in peoples pockets to spend it on things they want to spend, not what the Government thinks they should spend for them. And has many other social advantages, in terms of incentivising people into work.
Lets just applaud that as a good thing and not try to pretend it is actually giving some hidden advantage to the 'rich', whatever that means.
My view is the Government should go further. The current 40% band should be lowered, say to 30p, with the band at 100k lowered to 40p. I struggle with the economics of a personal tax rate above 40p, but could look at something like 42-45p above 250k. That would be progressive, fairer on middle Britain, many of whom should never be paying 40p tax rates, and probably would not result in a much reduced tax take overall, as it would disincentivise avoidance. However, the wider impact on productivity, consumer spending and country GDP would actually be a massive benefit.
Can't see it happening though. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 23:11 - Oct 15 with 1515 views | Darran |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 22:33 - Oct 15 by Catullus |
Oh they do have actual opinions, just not anything they can say in public!!
If Freud isn't sacked very soon, it shows the truth of it, in my opinion. That being that he slipped out an opinion that may have support from higher up but which they aren't yet strong enough to let out. |
Being 100% serious WTF is he going to be sacked from? |  |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 23:18 - Oct 15 with 1513 views | the_oracle |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 22:59 - Oct 15 by jackonicko |
Not in reality, no.
Due to the time value of money, £40k today is worth less than £40k a year ago. The threshold bands have been frozen for multiple years, which means that has been an effective tax increase, Which is why millions more are in the 40% band. This used to be the higher rate band for the "rich" but is now filled with teachers, police officers, and many others who would certainly not classify themselves as rich. And no one else would either.
Raising the tax bands in line with inflation is not a tax cut.
This is not the same for the lower threshold. This is being raised by many multiples of inflation. This is an effective tax cut - and rightly so because it benefits those who need it most. It puts hundreds of pounds in peoples pockets to spend it on things they want to spend, not what the Government thinks they should spend for them. And has many other social advantages, in terms of incentivising people into work.
Lets just applaud that as a good thing and not try to pretend it is actually giving some hidden advantage to the 'rich', whatever that means.
My view is the Government should go further. The current 40% band should be lowered, say to 30p, with the band at 100k lowered to 40p. I struggle with the economics of a personal tax rate above 40p, but could look at something like 42-45p above 250k. That would be progressive, fairer on middle Britain, many of whom should never be paying 40p tax rates, and probably would not result in a much reduced tax take overall, as it would disincentivise avoidance. However, the wider impact on productivity, consumer spending and country GDP would actually be a massive benefit.
Can't see it happening though. |
Sorry to go back to your original response. As far as I can work out if the Tory government win the next election, someone earning 50k will gain from the rise of the personal rate from 10k to 12.500 by £500 and the rise of the 40% threshold from just under 32k to 50k by £3200 by paying 20% less tax on 18k, giving a total benefit of £3700. Yet you say the poorest benefit most. ( I thought 12.5k was also worth less than it was a year ago too). It seems to me that those earning more have gained more in George Osborn's announcement. I must still be ignorant. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 23:29 - Oct 15 with 1500 views | skippyjack |
As if £8000 per person per year is draining companies... What a stupid comment.. Disabled people can be more creative than your average UK 'pisshead' student.. Someone shove a sock in that goats mouth. |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 23:31 - Oct 15 with 1498 views | jackonicko |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 23:18 - Oct 15 by the_oracle |
Sorry to go back to your original response. As far as I can work out if the Tory government win the next election, someone earning 50k will gain from the rise of the personal rate from 10k to 12.500 by £500 and the rise of the 40% threshold from just under 32k to 50k by £3200 by paying 20% less tax on 18k, giving a total benefit of £3700. Yet you say the poorest benefit most. ( I thought 12.5k was also worth less than it was a year ago too). It seems to me that those earning more have gained more in George Osborn's announcement. I must still be ignorant. |
You've mixed up your numbers. The rate is going up from 42k to 50k. Your 32k figure is the increment above the current personal allowance.
Impact for a person on 50k from increasing the band is therefore about £1,600. | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 23:39 - Oct 15 with 1488 views | jack_lord |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:41 - Oct 15 by LeonisGod |
Not defending the Tory muppet's viewpoints, but why did Miliband sit on this for a good couple of weeks waiting for PMQ? More interested in scoring cheap points than tackling the issue head-on maybe? |
Probably has more to do with the way PMQ works. I wish it was a free for all and questions could just be thrown at the boss with him having no idea what was coming so the spinners could not advise what answer to give as a lead for the follow up question. |  |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 23:49 - Oct 15 with 1484 views | Curcubita_Ultra |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 23:39 - Oct 15 by jack_lord |
Probably has more to do with the way PMQ works. I wish it was a free for all and questions could just be thrown at the boss with him having no idea what was coming so the spinners could not advise what answer to give as a lead for the follow up question. |
This would show just how many of them are utter charlatans abd simply mouthpieces for their backers....
Whigs of the C21st the whole shitty shower... | | | |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 08:03 - Oct 16 with 1431 views | NOTRAC |
The promised rise of personal allowances to 12500per year (from the present 10000per year),will not be given immediately ,but over the term of the next government.So the saving in tax of £500will be spread over five years to 2019.But this is only a promise, and this government are making so many promises at the moment can we really believe them.
Also the reduction in tax as promised could easily be offset by increases in national insurance contributions,which are payable on amounts below the personal allowance rate.
Never take a politicians word for granted. | |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:12 - Oct 16 with 1385 views | epaul |
 | |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
| |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 16:05 - Oct 16 with 1319 views | Davillin |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 20:23 - Oct 15 by _ |
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So your abject insensibility and overwhelming discourtesy didn't get a bite the first time you posted it on this thread, so you re-post it?
I have a hard time now refraining from repeating all of the filthy epithets that have been used to describe you over the past several months-- all of which you richly deserve.
The worst "scum of the earth" would be mortally ashamed to have you named among them.
Shame on you. |  |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 16:43 - Oct 16 with 1301 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 14:12 - Oct 16 by epaul |
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That about sums it all up . |  |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 18:42 - Oct 16 with 1254 views | trampie |
Hi epaul, hope you don't mind me asking but you make some interesting posts and I was wondering if you are a member of any group ?, you don't have to answer of course, I assume there is a messaging facility on here, but either way you don't have to answer of course, Its just I was wondering if your politics have lead you to being a member of a group or party ?
I recently read about a group I had never previously heard of that seemed to support the same causes and have the same observations I have, they give the impression you have to have an interview to get in  and seem a little bit obscure, now that i'm on here reading your posts I was just wondered if you was a member of a group ?
Sorry if you think i'm being rude. |  |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 19:21 - Oct 16 with 1226 views | epaul |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 18:42 - Oct 16 by trampie |
Hi epaul, hope you don't mind me asking but you make some interesting posts and I was wondering if you are a member of any group ?, you don't have to answer of course, I assume there is a messaging facility on here, but either way you don't have to answer of course, Its just I was wondering if your politics have lead you to being a member of a group or party ?
I recently read about a group I had never previously heard of that seemed to support the same causes and have the same observations I have, they give the impression you have to have an interview to get in and seem a little bit obscure, now that i'm on here reading your posts I was just wondered if you was a member of a group ?
Sorry if you think i'm being rude. |
Not a problem at all. Former member of Socialist Party, Currently member Stop the War and Palestine Solidarity, in my TU days member of left unity. Never been a member of the red tories!
What group was that? | |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
| |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 21:11 - Oct 16 with 1189 views | longlostjack |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 22:59 - Oct 15 by jackonicko |
Not in reality, no.
Due to the time value of money, £40k today is worth less than £40k a year ago. The threshold bands have been frozen for multiple years, which means that has been an effective tax increase, Which is why millions more are in the 40% band. This used to be the higher rate band for the "rich" but is now filled with teachers, police officers, and many others who would certainly not classify themselves as rich. And no one else would either.
Raising the tax bands in line with inflation is not a tax cut.
This is not the same for the lower threshold. This is being raised by many multiples of inflation. This is an effective tax cut - and rightly so because it benefits those who need it most. It puts hundreds of pounds in peoples pockets to spend it on things they want to spend, not what the Government thinks they should spend for them. And has many other social advantages, in terms of incentivising people into work.
Lets just applaud that as a good thing and not try to pretend it is actually giving some hidden advantage to the 'rich', whatever that means.
My view is the Government should go further. The current 40% band should be lowered, say to 30p, with the band at 100k lowered to 40p. I struggle with the economics of a personal tax rate above 40p, but could look at something like 42-45p above 250k. That would be progressive, fairer on middle Britain, many of whom should never be paying 40p tax rates, and probably would not result in a much reduced tax take overall, as it would disincentivise avoidance. However, the wider impact on productivity, consumer spending and country GDP would actually be a massive benefit.
Can't see it happening though. |
I love this obsession with tax. Raising the tax threshold means lower tax revenues which is why the government can't reduce the budget deficit - which leads to further public spending cuts and lousy public services. Call me old fashioned but I prefer the Scandinavia model - higher taxes - better health system and when we get old as we all will, superb care. |  |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage on 07:25 - Oct 17 with 1128 views | epaul |
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/16/lord-freud-disabled-spoof_n_5995394.h
Disabled people in Britain have caused controversy by suggesting that Lord Freud is "not worth the full £300 daily expenses" he is entitled to.
“There is a small group of people who are not worth £300 a day... and that is Tory peers like Lord Freud," one told HuffPost UK Comedy.
"We cannot have people simply loafing about, doing nothing and expecting the state to finance their lifestyles," said another.
"Freud is typical of the something-for-nothing culture that permeates Britain today." | |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
| |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 14:19 - Oct 17 with 1098 views | _ |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 16:05 - Oct 16 by Davillin |
So your abject insensibility and overwhelming discourtesy didn't get a bite the first time you posted it on this thread, so you re-post it?
I have a hard time now refraining from repeating all of the filthy epithets that have been used to describe you over the past several months-- all of which you richly deserve.
The worst "scum of the earth" would be mortally ashamed to have you named among them.
Shame on you. |
""""Disabled people in Britain have caused controversy by suggesting that Lord Freud is "not worth the full £300 daily expenses" he is entitled to.
“There is a small group of people who are not worth £300 a day... and that is Tory peers like Lord Freud," one told HuffPost UK Comedy.
"We cannot have people simply loafing about, doing nothing and expecting the state to finance their lifestyles," said another."""" |  |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 16:09 - Oct 17 with 1066 views | Davillin |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 14:19 - Oct 17 by _ |
""""Disabled people in Britain have caused controversy by suggesting that Lord Freud is "not worth the full £300 daily expenses" he is entitled to.
“There is a small group of people who are not worth £300 a day... and that is Tory peers like Lord Freud," one told HuffPost UK Comedy.
"We cannot have people simply loafing about, doing nothing and expecting the state to finance their lifestyles," said another."""" |
Keep digging yourself deeper until the whole pile of shit collapses in on you and we can be rid of your hatred once and for all.
Shame on you. | |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 16:41 - Oct 17 with 1048 views | _ |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 16:09 - Oct 17 by Davillin |
Keep digging yourself deeper until the whole pile of shit collapses in on you and we can be rid of your hatred once and for all.
Shame on you. |
Excuse me but shame on me for what, Tony? | |
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| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 19:01 - Oct 17 with 1044 views | skippyjack |
| Tory minister says disabled not worth minimum wage (n/t) on 14:19 - Oct 17 by _ |
""""Disabled people in Britain have caused controversy by suggesting that Lord Freud is "not worth the full £300 daily expenses" he is entitled to.
“There is a small group of people who are not worth £300 a day... and that is Tory peers like Lord Freud," one told HuffPost UK Comedy.
"We cannot have people simply loafing about, doing nothing and expecting the state to finance their lifestyles," said another."""" |
Can't believe you're having a go.. At a man with an arm and a leg.. I've got off my backside today.. Someone on this site offered me a job.. 40-70 a week.. I'm going to enjoy my lovely lifestyle on that.. No benefits or anything.. (I weren't claiming).. Let's see if you can live a life on this.. I might even frequent the food banks.. And create a survey.. I'll post it on here. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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