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Reply | Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer
at 01:09 21 Jan 2025
Good for you, sir, for pointing up how, in the words of Billy Bragg, there are two (if not two hundred and two) sides to every story, as any decent journo knows. |
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Reply | Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer
at 01:07 21 Jan 2025
Who said he was a 'decent bloke''? It's just more black and white thinking, exaggeration, and caricature. What I've pointed out is that no one here who has an 'opinion' on Terry (in a culture where people think just because they have a hole in their face, their voice is as valid as anyone else) (i) knows him as Nevin does, (ii) who (Nevin, that is) has described how/why he changed, or at least complicated, his view of him and (ii) who (still Nevin) is a decent guy - if apparently somehow too trendy for one or two - confronted Chelsea fans' racism in the 1970s when I bet no one else here was sitting down at a table with the NF or putting their head dangerously above the parapet.
Suddenly, apparently, that makes one an apologist for Hitler!
It's liberal fascism at its most disingenous, and utterly embarrassing to what is normally, one or two goons excepted, an intelligent messageboard. |
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Reply | Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer
at 21:05 20 Jan 2025
And thanks for it, Mr Counsellor. Pity one or two felt the need to hijack it with their impermeable loathings of (the admittedly unappealing) Terry and/or inverted snobbery/nit-picking at Nevin himself, but the book's as worthwhile as you say. [Post edited 20 Jan 21:39]
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Reply | Cian Dillon goals reel
at 21:02 20 Jan 2025
His reel's at low/youth levels, of course, but there looks like a promising player there. Let's hope he can make a big step up when the time comes! |
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Reply | Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer
at 18:40 20 Jan 2025
Ooh - things like 'There are no subtle nuances to John Terry. He is a racist, bully, greedy, egotistical, adulterous scumbag'. Comparing him (and Nevin's intelligent/informed/nuanced view of him) to Hitler liking animals. Little things like that. |
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Reply | Ruben Amorim
at 18:12 20 Jan 2025
In the 'un' or 'dis' sense, though? |
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Reply | Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer
at 18:01 20 Jan 2025
Some of the hate and prejudice here (for both Terry and Nevin at the same time in some cases - you really couldn't make it up!) makes me just as ashamed for the people behind it. Meanwhile, my being called a 'clown' and contrarian for excavating Nevin's detailed, informed and valid opinion about an apparently unattractive bloke like Terry, with reasoned journalistic reference/support etc., tells its own depressing story. Haters hate etc. Me, I like to live dangerously and try to think a little for myself. [Post edited 20 Jan 18:24]
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Reply | In other news !!!
at 00:43 20 Jan 2025
Are you Alan Shearer in disguise?
No, it isn't, it's about playing with joy and creativity, entertaining, and trying to win.
Even though we didn't win in 1976, I still think we won the season morally, and I'd rather have been us playing as we did, and finishing runners-up, than that merely efficient Liverpool machine. [Post edited 20 Jan 0:44]
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Reply | Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer
at 22:30 19 Jan 2025
PN has also said, 'I'm not saying John Terry's a great person, I don't say that at all', that he 'wanted to dislike him', and with 'some of the things that he'd said, that he'd done in the past, well I thought, "I've no time for this guy"'. Then he developed a more nuanced and complex view of him, looking at him up close, as intelligent people are prone to do.
https://www.offtheball.com/videos/pat-nevin-on-stunningly-misunderstood-john-ter
Like most QPR fans, I am hardly warm to Terry, who may or may not be a racist. Either way, however, I don't know him (and nor does anyone here, I presume) as Nevin does, and I take seriously Pat's more qualified opinion as an intelligent man with real embedded values, especially as he found himself compelled to complicate and rethink it.
Of course, if people want to see people - who are mostly a mixture of traits and rarely if ever all good/bad - forever in black and white terms (unfortunate pun unintended), they're unlikely to be swayed either way. For them, the possibility that, say, Terry could be both a plausible mentor and a potential abuser (racist or not) of Anton Ferdinand, or Jamie Carragher a decent family man and one who can spit into a car with a young girl in it when he loses his temper, or, say, Stan Bowles a popular entertainer who was utterly selfish and reckless when it came to being a half-decent father/partner, is probably utterly mystifying.
To pick up on a post elsewhere, most of us are walking contradictions, and that should humble all of us in our tendencies to preach and virtue-signal. [Post edited 19 Jan 22:43]
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Reply | Pat Nevin's The Accidental Footballer
at 21:24 19 Jan 2025
Dearie me! With 'counter-argument' like yours, what price argument (or even the meanings of words like 'hypocrite')? [Post edited 19 Jan 22:44]
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Reply | In other news !!!
at 19:58 19 Jan 2025
I don't think he's particuarly egotistical, and I admire anyone who has a vision for how they want to play. He also changed it up defensively (even if it didn't work), so he's not inflexible. From the BBC website:
'Postecoglou did not attempt to duck the issue, saying: "I have the responsibility of the group of players. I do have to try and get us through this and that's what I've got to focus on. For me to focus on anything else is abstaining myself from the responsibility I have. My belief doesn't waver. We are in a pretty extreme situation with injuries. If you look at the situation we're in, it will eventually dissipate. I certainly hope and believe it will."'
He's in a not dissimilar situation to where Marti was with us a couple of months back, and I actually hope he comes good because he wants to play entertaining football. |
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Reply | Sam Field
at 19:51 19 Jan 2025
Surely you'd take that. He's played around 150 games for us in 3 years, I think - absolutely phenomenal!
I still think he needs to curb the backaward/sideward passing which sometimes slow us down and makes our build-ups more ponderous, but his eye for goal is widening, I think, and he looks good when he steps up the pitch a bit.
Overall, definite captain-in-waiting. |
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Reply | Ruben Amorim
at 19:36 19 Jan 2025
All fair points, but I still think you have to put down a couple of markers, shed some light, and generally communicate some kind of clarity of vision. Even if most of your team aren't for you (and here I play devil's advocate a bit against my usual tack, I guess), telling them they're the worst ever is hardly going to get them fighting to keep you up. I don't know what he thought he was doing with that weirdly self-conscious crafting of a 'headline' for the media. [Post edited 19 Jan 22:55]
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Reply | How do we feel about Marti post Plymouth?
at 19:32 19 Jan 2025
Good god, what a ranting/pompous/pedantic/boring know-it-all!
If I'm all the things you say I am, I can only tell you you're living proof of the dictum 'it takes one to know one'. Sure, I can be fractious, judgmental, critical etc. (as well as reflective, responsive, and even sometimes agreeable) if it makes you feel better, but trust me when I tell you I'm not actually that bothered about anyone's view of 'me' here, as no one knows me - only what I write. My main beef, as I've said, is people who willfully play the man and not the ball as a way of not having to deal with complexity, nuance and argument, or who create simplistic/scapegoating caricatures they can rant it like barking alsatians.
PS As for being a 'contradiction', I happily agree, but everyone is. As you're so knowledgable about the likes of Wilde, you might have a look into psychoanalysis, in which contradictions are considered part and parcel of being human. (In fact, our very existence is understood as built on one, i.e., we both know and do not know ourselves, because of the reality of the unconscious.) [Post edited 19 Jan 22:22]
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Thread | Ruben Amorim
at 19:03 19 Jan 2025
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c77r85gj45xo
I know I've entered the odd criticism of Marti's post-match ruminations at times, but, Jesus Creepers, this man is frighteningly bad and really makes me grateful for MC's frankness, clarity and honesty almost all of the time.
Calls his team possibly the worst in the club's 147 year history. Can come up with nothing more than 'we have to be better' and 'cant lose so many games'. And (leaving aside his language issues) generally casts about as much light on what needs to be done about his hilariously bad team as a total eclipse!
And they say Rashford's a waste of money! As embarrassing as his team! On this evidence, they'll go down for more reasons than one. Bring it on! [Post edited 19 Jan 19:04]
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Reply | Top Half
at 17:00 19 Jan 2025
Ha ha, I love it!  |
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Reply | If a miracle happened and we went up via the playoffs
at 16:39 19 Jan 2025
I'm struck by the way some people don't want us to progress/go up, because, basically, they're frightened of our failing if we do. Pretentiousness (or 'overreach') is the basis of doing anything. I guess that's why they're not professional football people (or maybe professional anything). [Post edited 19 Jan 16:56]
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