| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread 14:40 - Jun 23 with 24513 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I‘m Balkan at the thought of this.
1-1 |  | | |  |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:07 - Jun 25 with 3063 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 14:44 - Jun 25 by hubble |
Narr, I'm not having that Dave. I was at Wembley that night and Italy were there for the taking. Everyone man, woman, child and pigeon present could see that we needed to go for the throat and finish them off. So what does Safegate do? Nothing. He changes nothing at all, and exactly like the games we've had so far in this Euros, he tries to defend a 1-0 lead. Inevitably, Italy eventually score on 67', and only then does Safegate make his first subs. It was absolutely pathetic. [Post edited 25 Jun 14:44]
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A final at home where you are ahead after a few minutes and still lose is a massive missed opportunity. Has Southgate learned from his mistakes from that game? No evidence to suggest he has. |  | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:24 - Jun 25 with 2997 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
A reminder, that game started with Ali, Lingard, and Ashley Young in midfield. He brought on Danny Rose and had Phil Jones and Fabian Delph on the bench with Danny Welbeck. | | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:24 - Jun 25 with 2993 views | Juzzie |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:01 - Jun 25 by TheChef |
What chances did we have to make it 2-0? I honestly can't remember. |
20 min spell in the first half we were all over them. I said to my son "we need to get a second goal before half-time as no way will Mancini carry on like this 2nd half".
That was our chance. Go in 2-0 up at half time and I think we'd have won it. yeah, Italy were good and may have gone 32,498 games unbeaten but on the night they were there for the taking, especially in that first half. Trying to defend a lead for 89mins (plus added time) in a final is asking for trouble.
[Post edited 25 Jun 15:31]
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| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:30 - Jun 25 with 2963 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:24 - Jun 25 by Juzzie |
20 min spell in the first half we were all over them. I said to my son "we need to get a second goal before half-time as no way will Mancini carry on like this 2nd half".
That was our chance. Go in 2-0 up at half time and I think we'd have won it. yeah, Italy were good and may have gone 32,498 games unbeaten but on the night they were there for the taking, especially in that first half. Trying to defend a lead for 89mins (plus added time) in a final is asking for trouble.
[Post edited 25 Jun 15:31]
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How can you have a 20 minute spell of domination and sit back and defend a lead for 89 minutes at the same time?
I’m irritated with England / Southgate but I really think the myth is overtaking the man here. | | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:31 - Jun 25 with 2960 views | daveB |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:01 - Jun 25 by TheChef |
What chances did we have to make it 2-0? I honestly can't remember. |
Maguire missed a header in the second half, Sterling and Kane both had chances in the 1st to go 2 up |  | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:33 - Jun 25 with 2946 views | Juzzie |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:30 - Jun 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
How can you have a 20 minute spell of domination and sit back and defend a lead for 89 minutes at the same time?
I’m irritated with England / Southgate but I really think the myth is overtaking the man here. |
ok, sorry, but you get my point. They should really have taken advantage of that spell but they didn't then Manicini changed things in the second half and it was a tighter game. | | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:40 - Jun 25 with 2909 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:33 - Jun 25 by Juzzie |
ok, sorry, but you get my point. They should really have taken advantage of that spell but they didn't then Manicini changed things in the second half and it was a tighter game. |
I agree they should have taken advantage of that spell, but I don’t know how GS is supposed to make his players score their chances? | | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:49 - Jun 25 with 2845 views | CamberleyR |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:24 - Jun 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
A reminder, that game started with Ali, Lingard, and Ashley Young in midfield. He brought on Danny Rose and had Phil Jones and Fabian Delph on the bench with Danny Welbeck. |
That was the WC semi, not the Euros final? |  |
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| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:50 - Jun 25 with 2848 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:49 - Jun 25 by CamberleyR |
That was the WC semi, not the Euros final? |
Is that not what Ned Kennedy was talking about?
Edit: Nurse! So much criticism (about semis and a final by the way!) has got me confused. [Post edited 25 Jun 15:54]
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| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:00 - Jun 25 with 2819 views | Dorse |
'Pick Eze... that Foden's a wrong 'un... I mean, look at his barnet... Eze's the one... EEEZZZEEEE...' |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:11 - Jun 25 with 2770 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:30 - Jun 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
How can you have a 20 minute spell of domination and sit back and defend a lead for 89 minutes at the same time?
I’m irritated with England / Southgate but I really think the myth is overtaking the man here. |
What ‘myth’? The evidence is there for all to see at previous tournaments and the two games in this tournament. He’s still got the opportunity to put things right but he’s making bloody hard work of things at the moment. | | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:17 - Jun 25 with 2752 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:11 - Jun 25 by Ned_Kennedys |
What ‘myth’? The evidence is there for all to see at previous tournaments and the two games in this tournament. He’s still got the opportunity to put things right but he’s making bloody hard work of things at the moment. |
So to be clear you are including games GS has won in your argument he’s not a good manager? | | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:27 - Jun 25 with 2707 views | CamberleyR |
The whisper I'm seeing on Twátter currently is Gallagher for Alexander-Arnold the only change. If true, would have expected nothing less from Safegate. Awful selection. | |
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| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:30 - Jun 25 with 2693 views | CamberleyR |
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| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:34 - Jun 25 with 2671 views | stevec |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 12:56 - Jun 25 by TheChef |
On that subject...
Or is it just players walking on to a coach? |
Looks like they’re coming out of the worlds worst ever wildlife theme park.
That would explain the body language. |  | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:34 - Jun 25 with 2676 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:17 - Jun 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
So to be clear you are including games GS has won in your argument he’s not a good manager? |
Well if he’d won no games you wouldn’t have to defend him all the time as he would’ve been sacked years ago. Although you didn’t bother to re-appear on the Denmark thread after the game.
No idea what point you are trying to make: of course he’s won some games. That doesn’t make him a good manager. | | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:42 - Jun 25 with 2631 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:34 - Jun 25 by Ned_Kennedys |
Well if he’d won no games you wouldn’t have to defend him all the time as he would’ve been sacked years ago. Although you didn’t bother to re-appear on the Denmark thread after the game.
No idea what point you are trying to make: of course he’s won some games. That doesn’t make him a good manager. |
Don’t lose your temper again, and thanks for tracking my movements.
I was as pissed off as anyone after Denmark and it’s made me question him, my overall point is that despite Denmark the criticism is still over the top and that the ‘myth has overtaken the man’. [Post edited 25 Jun 16:50]
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| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:45 - Jun 25 with 2623 views | nix |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 12:12 - Jun 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I think we are letting the players off the hook too easily personally. |
I was a bit like that at the beginning of last season, thinking the players should take more responsibiity. But then seeing the difference Marti made I'm more leaning towards the manager making a big difference and even more so in International matches where you don't get much time to get your points across. |  | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:49 - Jun 25 with 2610 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:45 - Jun 25 by nix |
I was a bit like that at the beginning of last season, thinking the players should take more responsibiity. But then seeing the difference Marti made I'm more leaning towards the manager making a big difference and even more so in International matches where you don't get much time to get your points across. |
This is a good point, and I think is half true, but Ainsworth didn’t get us to a semi and a final and have the best win record of any English manager when he got the chop.
I think Southgate has gone a bit stale and has run out of ideas which is the issue , but ultimately that XI in any position should be beating Denmark. | | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:57 - Jun 25 with 2594 views | Juzzie |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 15:40 - Jun 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I agree they should have taken advantage of that spell, but I don’t know how GS is supposed to make his players score their chances? |
He can't but in the 2nd half Mancini changed things around and I think we lost our momentum and didn't seem to be able to react. | | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 17:32 - Jun 25 with 2497 views | hubble |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 14:57 - Jun 25 by daveB |
what changes should he have made then?
All very well saying go for the throat, we had chances to go 2-0 up
I thought he should have made a change earlier but not sure there was an obvious one,
I do think taking off Rice was a mistake but we had lost the midfield battle so could understand it |
"he should have made a change earlier but not sure there was an obvious one"
What, earlier than the 71st minute and after we'd conceded? No shit Sherlock. Grealish on at the start of the second half was what we were calling for at the time. We clearly needed to freshen up the attack and capitalise on our domination.They were there for the taking. Instead, we just sat back and sat back. One of the most frustrating games of football I've ever been at. |  |
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| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 17:53 - Jun 25 with 2427 views | Hunterhoop |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 14:44 - Jun 25 by hubble |
Narr, I'm not having that Dave. I was at Wembley that night and Italy were there for the taking. Everyone man, woman, child and pigeon present could see that we needed to go for the throat and finish them off. So what does Safegate do? Nothing. He changes nothing at all, and exactly like the games we've had so far in this Euros, he tries to defend a 1-0 lead. Inevitably, Italy eventually score on 67', and only then does Safegate make his first subs. It was absolutely pathetic. [Post edited 25 Jun 14:44]
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Yeah. Agree. I was there too. It’s rare to see at QPR but being their live it was weird seeing how dominant we were. At HT it was so hard to see us losing. I genuinely thought “England are going to do this”. The second half was one long slide downhill where it felt like no attempt was made to arrest the slide until it was far too late and all momentum had been lost and the atmosphere in the stadium has turned. After that Shaw goal, the noise and atmosphere was intense. The Italians were ragged and rattled. Go for the jugular.
I get that the great Italian sides over generations have won by “professionally” seeing out games. But if you repeatedly try to do it in big games and it doesn’t work, it isn’t professional.
In doesn’t matter when it happens, after 30 mins, 45mins, 60, 75… in every game England lead at some point Southgate/the team try to preserve the score. To me, that isn’t the mindset of winners. It’s a cautious mindset and caution rarely wins in sport.
Tonight England can go out and play with confidence, with as little fear as you’ll ever have the opportunity to have in a knockout tournament. The team has to display some energy, a good tempo, bravery on the ball and with off the ball movement. If we just set up to control the game and see out a 1 goal win, or worse still a draw, it’ll be disappointing. |  | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 18:08 - Jun 25 with 2361 views | SunnyVanGo |
2-0 (Kane, Stones)
Thoughts
International tournament football is much harder / tighter than i probably realise. Coaches get less time with players, club cliques, less ‘easy’ footballing nations etc.
Southgate is not Taylor or Keegan or McClaren or Hodgson or Allardyce…
Hype is high. This time of year the OTT mainstream press circus sets up camp on the edge of town and resident expectations of bearded women and dwarf firing canons go through the roof / canopy.
Knickers get twisted, flags get waved, faces get painted and that weird uncle who’s lazy eye always seems to rest on your sister passes out on the couch at halftime due more to a lack of quality rather than solely alcohol content.
I accept hospitality businesses are the ones praying for a nation to ‘go deep’. Cash ain’t it.
Suggestion
Have a laugh, don’t take it (yourself) too seriously. Keep trees vertical, be nice to strangers but don’t get in their cars, only disagree with people whose opinion you value. |  | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 18:16 - Jun 25 with 2348 views | nix |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 16:49 - Jun 25 by BazzaInTheLoft |
This is a good point, and I think is half true, but Ainsworth didn’t get us to a semi and a final and have the best win record of any English manager when he got the chop.
I think Southgate has gone a bit stale and has run out of ideas which is the issue , but ultimately that XI in any position should be beating Denmark. |
Yes I do think he's made a difference in some areas. I think he's definitely been excellent in bringing the team spirit and on the mental side, which I think was definitely neglected by managers like Sven, Capello and Hoddle.
I just don't think he's quite at the level tactically as I don't think we ever look like we've out-thought the opponents. But we'll see what happens in the next couple of matches and I could be wrong about that too! Wouldn't be the first time Bazz. | | | |
| England 🏴 v Slovenia 🇸🇮 Match Thread on 18:43 - Jun 25 with 2267 views | LimehouseR |
Well with all the negativity and the flack thrown at the England team I do think we always need a dose of reality and perspective.
Italy barely scraped a draw with Croatia.
Germany scraped a draw with the Swiss.
France currently being held by Poland.
Netherlands being beaten by Austria.
Everyone just assumes we should steam roller teams but it seriously doesn't work like that. It's not like Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. International football is just a different kettle of fish.
Think we'll do okay this evening. The draw in the knockouts could be favourable again for us so let's see how it goes. |  | | |
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