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Yes he will be an excellent replacement for Downes in the medium term while he can help and develop the excellent young midfielders we have coming through. Halfway through his 2 year contract the likes of Cooper, Congreve and Lloyd will be able to step up, if not before.
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Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 08:54 - Jul 6 with 4892 views
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 22:45 - Jul 5 by Jack_Kass
No.
We need to be ruthless and weigh up whether any signing can either
a) give us potential re-sale value
b) give us considerable playing value over the expense of the contract
Joe definitely doesn't achieve A and I'm (just) on the side of no with B
Our model should be to go after young players who we can get huge value out of, Joe is a sentimental signing.
All young players need an experienced pro besides them. A team full of young, enthusiastic but inexperienced players doen't often achieve much, experience counts. Besides which any new signing is a gamble, they can have potential but you never know, look at Walsh, everyone agrees he'd be a fantastic player if only he didn't break every time he played.
As to playing value, surely Joe brings that and any young player who represents huge value is going to be chased by the bigger sharks higher up the food chain. Swansea or an EPL club? Swansea or a club recently relegated, well who will pay more. Sometimes it's just a case of Swansea being too far from where the player wants to be.
What we have to be is clever, make more of the right choices. Just looking at the recent events, Ogbeta, on the face of it he fitted your profile so we signed him but it very much looks like we got sold a pup. Some of our own younger players need an experienced hand to guide them, help them grow just like Joe had when he played with Leon.
Ultimately of course, as much as I voted yes, Joe could be a massive flop because every signing is a bit of a gamble.
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 09:03 - Jul 6 by Catullus
All young players need an experienced pro besides them. A team full of young, enthusiastic but inexperienced players doen't often achieve much, experience counts. Besides which any new signing is a gamble, they can have potential but you never know, look at Walsh, everyone agrees he'd be a fantastic player if only he didn't break every time he played.
As to playing value, surely Joe brings that and any young player who represents huge value is going to be chased by the bigger sharks higher up the food chain. Swansea or an EPL club? Swansea or a club recently relegated, well who will pay more. Sometimes it's just a case of Swansea being too far from where the player wants to be.
What we have to be is clever, make more of the right choices. Just looking at the recent events, Ogbeta, on the face of it he fitted your profile so we signed him but it very much looks like we got sold a pup. Some of our own younger players need an experienced hand to guide them, help them grow just like Joe had when he played with Leon.
Ultimately of course, as much as I voted yes, Joe could be a massive flop because every signing is a bit of a gamble.
Morning Cat,me look mucked.
Any tips on how one can be positive regarding the coming season.
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 09:03 - Jul 6 by Catullus
All young players need an experienced pro besides them. A team full of young, enthusiastic but inexperienced players doen't often achieve much, experience counts. Besides which any new signing is a gamble, they can have potential but you never know, look at Walsh, everyone agrees he'd be a fantastic player if only he didn't break every time he played.
As to playing value, surely Joe brings that and any young player who represents huge value is going to be chased by the bigger sharks higher up the food chain. Swansea or an EPL club? Swansea or a club recently relegated, well who will pay more. Sometimes it's just a case of Swansea being too far from where the player wants to be.
What we have to be is clever, make more of the right choices. Just looking at the recent events, Ogbeta, on the face of it he fitted your profile so we signed him but it very much looks like we got sold a pup. Some of our own younger players need an experienced hand to guide them, help them grow just like Joe had when he played with Leon.
Ultimately of course, as much as I voted yes, Joe could be a massive flop because every signing is a bit of a gamble.
Based on the very brief showings from Ogbeta, I disagree we have been sold a pup. I think there is a good player there, however to sign a player which ( it seems ) did not fit the manager's plans is unfair on the player, the manager and the club in general.. As has been said before, this matter seems to have been dealt with and incoming players seem to at least be given RM's seal of approval.
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 09:08 - Jul 6 by onehunglow
Morning Cat,me look mucked.
Any tips on how one can be positive regarding the coming season.
I don’t remember a season with more foreboding
You don't remember the 70's, applying for re-election? Surely those years were worse? What about the Petty tenure, we thought we wouldn't even have a club. What about the bankruptcies?
There have been much worse times than this, give them 3 months and see how it goes. After all, when push comes to shove, it's only football. There are more important things that deserve getting stressed over.
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 09:09 - Jul 6 by STID2017
Based on the very brief showings from Ogbeta, I disagree we have been sold a pup. I think there is a good player there, however to sign a player which ( it seems ) did not fit the manager's plans is unfair on the player, the manager and the club in general.. As has been said before, this matter seems to have been dealt with and incoming players seem to at least be given RM's seal of approval.
Morning STID I will lose this again. Why do managers allow players to come in when all they do is refuse to play them. Why would owners buy a player knowing that it is not what manager wants resulting in their purchase being a dud and one on which they will lose money.
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 09:09 - Jul 6 by STID2017
Based on the very brief showings from Ogbeta, I disagree we have been sold a pup. I think there is a good player there, however to sign a player which ( it seems ) did not fit the manager's plans is unfair on the player, the manager and the club in general.. As has been said before, this matter seems to have been dealt with and incoming players seem to at least be given RM's seal of approval.
I thought Ogbeta was a wing back which was what Martin wanted? Maybe he wanted to sign another CAM to play at WB?
Sorry for the sarcasm.
This brings up another point that has been made. When clubs have DoF's and the manager doesn't have final refusal it's a recipe for trouble. We saw it with Cooper, those 2 USA players brought in but he didn't want them and the player he did want wasnt signed. We made a rod for our own backs. It's stupid to sign a player a manager doesn't want and won't use unless circumstances dictate otherwise.
Hopefully you are right and the situation has been dealth with but if we are actively looking to get rid of Ogbeta then for whatever the reason, we were sold a pup and who was responsible? Probably the person who lost their job but hed already done the damage.
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 09:13 - Jul 6 by onehunglow
Morning STID I will lose this again. Why do managers allow players to come in when all they do is refuse to play them. Why would owners buy a player knowing that it is not what manager wants resulting in their purchase being a dud and one on which they will lose money.
RM is not our manger he is our head coach, big difference. At the time of these signings his input was low, not his choice. Now Mark Allen is gone we have a more balanced transfer policy.
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Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 10:12 - Jul 6 with 4783 views
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 10:07 - Jul 6 by Whiterockin
RM is not our manger he is our head coach, big difference. At the time of these signings his input was low, not his choice. Now Mark Allen is gone we have a more balanced transfer policy.
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 10:12 - Jul 6 by onehunglow
Who is the manager?
Modern football is all about head coaches, who coach and look after the team and others who normally buy and sell players and sort out contracts ect, possibly a director of football as Mark Allen was. The days of a manager running a football club from top to bottom and making all the decisions is long gone.
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Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 13:25 - Jul 6 with 4657 views
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 10:23 - Jul 6 by Whiterockin
Modern football is all about head coaches, who coach and look after the team and others who normally buy and sell players and sort out contracts ect, possibly a director of football as Mark Allen was. The days of a manager running a football club from top to bottom and making all the decisions is long gone.
This may be true but not in this case. Martin is the new Wenger.
If he says no bananas then no bananas (or other Musaceae) it is. In theory Allen should have decided Martin's fate but in this case it was the other way around. Martin is a disciple of a particular cause. Sustainable clean environmentally friendly respectful and aesthetically nice to look at.
An 'ego free' approach run by am man with a medium sized ego (in relative terms). He is a football coach but also attempts perhaps to influence off site behaviour and lifestyle choices. Piroe and Obafemi perhaps have ran into the all embracing concept. Piroe might have incurred Martin's ire early doors by chewing gum and missing the waste bin while trying to volley it in from 5 yards. (A rare miss) (fantasy scenario admittedly)
Some of the old boys are to long in the tooth a to buy into this lifestyle stuff and will move on gracefully. Bennett. Smudger etc.
KoL is a disciple of the new faith which is a branch of Jenkinisataism where Brendan was the main disciple in the past. Swansea can only succeed with the big fish by a strong faith and focus.
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 13:25 - Jul 6 by ReslovenSwan1
This may be true but not in this case. Martin is the new Wenger.
If he says no bananas then no bananas (or other Musaceae) it is. In theory Allen should have decided Martin's fate but in this case it was the other way around. Martin is a disciple of a particular cause. Sustainable clean environmentally friendly respectful and aesthetically nice to look at.
An 'ego free' approach run by am man with a medium sized ego (in relative terms). He is a football coach but also attempts perhaps to influence off site behaviour and lifestyle choices. Piroe and Obafemi perhaps have ran into the all embracing concept. Piroe might have incurred Martin's ire early doors by chewing gum and missing the waste bin while trying to volley it in from 5 yards. (A rare miss) (fantasy scenario admittedly)
Some of the old boys are to long in the tooth a to buy into this lifestyle stuff and will move on gracefully. Bennett. Smudger etc.
KoL is a disciple of the new faith which is a branch of Jenkinisataism where Brendan was the main disciple in the past. Swansea can only succeed with the big fish by a strong faith and focus.
[Post edited 6 Jul 2022 14:16]
Agreed but it was not the case in the beginning when Allen was here, that's why he had to go. Strange but you are the second person this week to mention to me with the comparison of RM and Wenger in his philosophy.
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Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 13:41 - Jul 6 with 4613 views
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 10:23 - Jul 6 by Whiterockin
Modern football is all about head coaches, who coach and look after the team and others who normally buy and sell players and sort out contracts ect, possibly a director of football as Mark Allen was. The days of a manager running a football club from top to bottom and making all the decisions is long gone.
So you say so ,who actually manages,assuming somebody does. Are you suggesting Martin has no say in the running of the club because the narrative he he is going to radically change us and make us a proper club. That to me suggest he really DOES manage and if he does then he is a manager .
I like you Whitey and I hope we do not end up as I fear .
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 13:41 - Jul 6 by onehunglow
So you say so ,who actually manages,assuming somebody does. Are you suggesting Martin has no say in the running of the club because the narrative he he is going to radically change us and make us a proper club. That to me suggest he really DOES manage and if he does then he is a manager .
I like you Whitey and I hope we do not end up as I fear .
I’m an idiot anyway so I’m always wrong .
Innit
You are not always wrong, but you do tend to exaggerate the negativity. On the other hand I tend to exaggerate the positivity.
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Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 13:49 - Jul 6 with 4586 views
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 13:41 - Jul 6 by onehunglow
So you say so ,who actually manages,assuming somebody does. Are you suggesting Martin has no say in the running of the club because the narrative he he is going to radically change us and make us a proper club. That to me suggest he really DOES manage and if he does then he is a manager .
I like you Whitey and I hope we do not end up as I fear .
I’m an idiot anyway so I’m always wrong .
Innit
You are not taking into account London Cockney semantics. This became more widely understood in the mainstream with the overrated BBC sitcom "Only fools and horses" and "The Sweeney" and "Minder".
a) A 'proper geezer' for example is a real good bloke. A proper club is therefore a real good club.
b) You understanding is of 'proper' and 'improper'. If the club is not proper it is therefor improper. Therefore Martin was calling the club currently 'improper'. I believe this was not his intention.
Swansea city was probably 'improper' for several decades over the last 50 years but not over the last 20 years.
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 14:30 - Jul 6 by ReslovenSwan1
You are not taking into account London Cockney semantics. This became more widely understood in the mainstream with the overrated BBC sitcom "Only fools and horses" and "The Sweeney" and "Minder".
a) A 'proper geezer' for example is a real good bloke. A proper club is therefore a real good club.
b) You understanding is of 'proper' and 'improper'. If the club is not proper it is therefor improper. Therefore Martin was calling the club currently 'improper'. I believe this was not his intention.
Swansea city was probably 'improper' for several decades over the last 50 years but not over the last 20 years.
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 10:23 - Jul 6 by Whiterockin
Modern football is all about head coaches, who coach and look after the team and others who normally buy and sell players and sort out contracts ect, possibly a director of football as Mark Allen was. The days of a manager running a football club from top to bottom and making all the decisions is long gone.
He doesn't need to manage the club from top to bottom though, he does need full control of the team. of who is brought in otherwise we ned up with an unbalanced and disjointed squad that will not succeed.
If he is tld someone must be sold to balance the books, I can understand that but even Alex Ferguson could not build a winning team if he was given players he didn't want and couldn't/wouldn't use, could he?
Quite simply should the swans sign Joe Allen ? on 09:26 - Jul 7 by Catullus
He doesn't need to manage the club from top to bottom though, he does need full control of the team. of who is brought in otherwise we ned up with an unbalanced and disjointed squad that will not succeed.
If he is tld someone must be sold to balance the books, I can understand that but even Alex Ferguson could not build a winning team if he was given players he didn't want and couldn't/wouldn't use, could he?
Average Swans manager lasts two years. We're typically looking at investing younger players to develop and giving them three year contracts. Alex Ferguson had the luxury of total job security and a personal investment in the long-term fortunes of Man Utd (until that final PL winning year which was clearly built for short term success and immediate collapse afterwards). It's not a fair comparison given any mortal manager knows they're always six months of poor form from the sack should a board get edgy.
We can't do all our business based on who the manager feels he needs right now. It's entirely sensible to have people in the building looking out for the bigger picture, and that will sometimes mean investment in players who we see as talents for the future who will benefit the club 2/3/5 years down the line. It's the manager's job then to utilise and nurture those talents as best he can.
Our club captain was with us for 3 years before becoming a regular. Fulton longer. Easier in the PL to spend big money and shove them out of view in the u21s/u23s or on loans, but the basic practice was the same.
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