| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action 22:01 - Nov 20 with 37060 views | aberhugh |
The violent scenes today in the East stand are a disgrace and were instigated by a group who have in the past displayed openly racist behaviour. During the Cardiff game my daughter and I called out two of this group for shouting racist insults which were vile. Prior to this she had spoken to them about booing taking the knee to which the reply was 'It's political'
Following the game I e-mailed the club with detailed information about the racist behaviour of this group. There was also health and safety concerns regarding these people standing on seats and when we scored and falling on to supporters in front of them and injuring one guy.
I made it clear that I felt this behaviour would be repeated and some overt stewarding would be required with senior stewards present. If my suggestions had been implemented decisive intervention today when the flags were displayed would have prevented the violent scenes. I feel let down by the club and unsupported when tackling racism on the terraces. Lots of fine words before the Cardiff game have not been backed up by action to root out racists. The club must support the fans when they call out racist behaviour as well as their players. My wife tackled them today about booing taking the knee.
I exchanged a number of e-mails with people in the club and identified the problem and perpetrators. The club must now take action to stop this blatant racism and protect the health and safety of supporters. It is time they took seriously their duty of care to us and not leave it to us to police people's behaviour. |  | | |  |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:26 - Nov 25 with 974 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:24 - Nov 25 by LoyalSwansea |
What is sectarian about the word loyalist or saying London is our capital (as a dig back about them constantly saying they are our capital)
Please enlighten me!! |
It has certain connotations whether you accept it or not, especially on a NI flag. |  | | |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:29 - Nov 25 with 962 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:26 - Nov 25 by Treforys_Jack |
It has certain connotations whether you accept it or not, especially on a NI flag. |
That is the same argument against the knee though to be fair.
It’s tough for the club to make a stance like this against something having certain connotations, when they back other things that also have clear negative connotations.
A year ago many correctly said it’s opening a can of worms.
Today those worms appear to be all over the floor. |  |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:37 - Nov 25 with 947 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:29 - Nov 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
That is the same argument against the knee though to be fair.
It’s tough for the club to make a stance like this against something having certain connotations, when they back other things that also have clear negative connotations.
A year ago many correctly said it’s opening a can of worms.
Today those worms appear to be all over the floor. |
Fully agree. | | | |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:39 - Nov 25 with 940 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 18:11 - Nov 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
What does a white man shooting three white men that were attacking him got to do with race again?
I’m sure this world can’t get more bizarre. |
What is bizarre is that a US minor 4 years away from being legally allowed to drink alcohol was at a race discrimination linked demonstration carrying an armed military automatic machine gun illegally and prepared to use it. In UK he would have been shot in the head by a police marksman whether he was being attacked or not. In the US he walks free and turns up with celebrity interviewers. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:41 - Nov 25 with 926 views | 73__73 |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:39 - Nov 25 by ReslovenSwan1 |
What is bizarre is that a US minor 4 years away from being legally allowed to drink alcohol was at a race discrimination linked demonstration carrying an armed military automatic machine gun illegally and prepared to use it. In UK he would have been shot in the head by a police marksman whether he was being attacked or not. In the US he walks free and turns up with celebrity interviewers. |
That’s because the USA is free. The U.K. isn’t | |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:43 - Nov 25 with 926 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:41 - Nov 25 by 73__73 |
That’s because the USA is free. The U.K. isn’t |
USA is a basketcase you mean surely. | | | |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:46 - Nov 25 with 908 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:39 - Nov 25 by ReslovenSwan1 |
What is bizarre is that a US minor 4 years away from being legally allowed to drink alcohol was at a race discrimination linked demonstration carrying an armed military automatic machine gun illegally and prepared to use it. In UK he would have been shot in the head by a police marksman whether he was being attacked or not. In the US he walks free and turns up with celebrity interviewers. |
He wasn’t at a “race discrimination linked demonstration”. He also wasn’t carrying an illegal gun, but yes of course he was prepared to use it if his life was in danger. That’s the point of a gun.
He was at an out of control riot however, where the town was actively being burned down, in an attempt to douse the flames.
It was being burned down because someone was shot for wielding a knife while abducting a child, who happened to be black.
If he was in the U.K. he wouldn’t have turned up with a legal gun like he did in Kenosha, because the out of control criminal rioters also would not be armed with one.
Come on now Resolven, a bit of sense please. | |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:46 - Nov 25 with 904 views | 73__73 |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:43 - Nov 25 by Treforys_Jack |
USA is a basketcase you mean surely. |
I think you probably watch to much tv. Still is the place to be if you want to make it in life, and the vast, vast majority of the USA is a fantastic peaceful place to live. | |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:52 - Nov 25 with 902 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:46 - Nov 25 by 73__73 |
I think you probably watch to much tv. Still is the place to be if you want to make it in life, and the vast, vast majority of the USA is a fantastic peaceful place to live. |
Anywhere that people can routinely carry firearms is a basketcase. I've lived there, have you ? [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 20:54]
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:55 - Nov 25 with 885 views | 73__73 |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:52 - Nov 25 by Treforys_Jack |
Anywhere that people can routinely carry firearms is a basketcase. I've lived there, have you ? [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 20:54]
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Yes I’ve lived there and have spent a lot of time over there. Did you witness any shootings ? Because I haven’t | |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:00 - Nov 25 with 878 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:55 - Nov 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
When I lived in London there was knife crime and acid attacks regularly.
It’s likely I’ll be moving to the States next year, very much looking forward to it.
Especially being there for 2024/5 elections  |
Knife crime is ridiculous at the moment, however I'd rather face a knife than a gun any time. | | | |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:02 - Nov 25 with 868 views | 73__73 |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:00 - Nov 25 by Treforys_Jack |
Knife crime is ridiculous at the moment, however I'd rather face a knife than a gun any time. |
Really ? | |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:14 - Nov 25 with 862 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:02 - Nov 25 by 73__73 |
Really ? |
Err yes, you ? | | | |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:23 - Nov 25 with 855 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 20:46 - Nov 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
He wasn’t at a “race discrimination linked demonstration”. He also wasn’t carrying an illegal gun, but yes of course he was prepared to use it if his life was in danger. That’s the point of a gun.
He was at an out of control riot however, where the town was actively being burned down, in an attempt to douse the flames.
It was being burned down because someone was shot for wielding a knife while abducting a child, who happened to be black.
If he was in the U.K. he wouldn’t have turned up with a legal gun like he did in Kenosha, because the out of control criminal rioters also would not be armed with one.
Come on now Resolven, a bit of sense please. |
The illegality of him having an automatic sub machine gun seems to have been an issue. You are right in that there seems to have been some sort of loophole it appears which persuaded the courts not to prosecute. Minors in this state are banned from holding pistols and short barrel guns but not long barrelled machine guns which is pretty extraordinary.
In general minors cannot carry arms. I am pretty sure the defendant had no idea about this loophole. The law was designed to allow teenagers to go shooting ducks on the farm I believe.
The demonstration was race related in my view as it revolved about the shooting dead of a black person. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:28 - Nov 25 with 853 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:23 - Nov 25 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The illegality of him having an automatic sub machine gun seems to have been an issue. You are right in that there seems to have been some sort of loophole it appears which persuaded the courts not to prosecute. Minors in this state are banned from holding pistols and short barrel guns but not long barrelled machine guns which is pretty extraordinary.
In general minors cannot carry arms. I am pretty sure the defendant had no idea about this loophole. The law was designed to allow teenagers to go shooting ducks on the farm I believe.
The demonstration was race related in my view as it revolved about the shooting dead of a black person. |
No way was it race related. | | | |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:37 - Nov 25 with 841 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:28 - Nov 25 by Treforys_Jack |
No way was it race related. |
Don't confuse him further for God's sake.
I won't even touch upon the fact he thinks a rifle is an ''automatic sub machine gun'', but he's still trying to figure out how a man that was ''shot dead'' is still alive.
Basic steps. [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 21:46]
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:49 - Nov 25 with 830 views | Dewi1jack |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 01:32 - Nov 23 by Kilkennyjack |
Hi Dewi,
Try listening instead of laughing as the case for welsh independence is sound.
Ask John.
Perhaps instead you might want to laugh at .. the English Tory party that thought Johnson was a good PM, Brexit was a good idea, and that wide scale Tory corruption during a global pandemic was their right.
🤮🇬🇧 |
Go on then.
I'll bite.
How does a "Free, Independent Wales" pay it's way without the English tax payer chipping in?
I still think Merthyr holds the record for people drawing SSP/ PIP/ Attendance allowance btw.
(Awaits the "We'll rejoin the EU argument widow Krankie chucked out." Then it was explained Jockland didn't even meet 25% of the joining requirements- even with the Norwegian oil they claim is theirs)
And as for your little childish smiley.
Until you learn to accept all people's views, rather than the bullsh1te rhetoric you come out with.
Maybe you should stay out of Britain and stay in the county you take your name from.
Or to put it another way.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 22:06 - Nov 25 with 803 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 21:49 - Nov 25 by Dewi1jack |
Go on then.
I'll bite.
How does a "Free, Independent Wales" pay it's way without the English tax payer chipping in?
I still think Merthyr holds the record for people drawing SSP/ PIP/ Attendance allowance btw.
(Awaits the "We'll rejoin the EU argument widow Krankie chucked out." Then it was explained Jockland didn't even meet 25% of the joining requirements- even with the Norwegian oil they claim is theirs)
And as for your little childish smiley.
Until you learn to accept all people's views, rather than the bullsh1te rhetoric you come out with.
Maybe you should stay out of Britain and stay in the county you take your name from.
Or to put it another way.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
CAN WALES AFFORD INDEPENDENCE?
Independence might sound like an appealing idea, but will it work in practice? Can Wales afford to stand on its own two feet?
One argument that is mentioned regularly is that Wales has a large fiscal deficit.
However, the important point to make is that this fiscal deficit is not inevitable. Wales is currently running such a deficit due to the economic mismanagement of being a part of the UK. It is not preordained that Wales must suffer from such a shortfall in revenue, and there are no obstacles in terms of our abilities, education system, or our place in the world that would render us unable to address the issue as an independent nation.
Moreover, by looking at the estimated fiscal balance over the last two decades, we see that the deficit has fluctuated significantly from a low in 1999/00 to a high in 2009/10, following the global financial crisis. The fiscal deficit of the UK as a whole was as high as £167.4bn in 2009/10, while the UK Government is expected to borrow up to £372bn to cover the costs of the COVID-19 pandemic. It is also true that independent nations commonly run long-term fiscal deficits. In fact, nearly all OECD countries have, on average, run budget deficits of between 3 and 8 per cent for the last decade. According to OECD figures, the last year the UK had a budget surplus was 2001, and it has only had six years of surplus since 1970! At the peak of the financial crisis Ireland ran a budget deficit of 30 per cent, from which it has now recovered with careful management of its economy.
As an independent nation, in the mid to the long term we can look to exploit all of our advantages and free ourselves from Westminster-imposed restrictions on the economy and taxation. Locked in the UK, we are suffering from the effects of a classic exploitative, extractive economy. By becoming independent, we can reshape the system.
THE CURRENT SITUATION
Despite being able to recognize the potential of Wales and the options open to us as a small independent nation, it is important to recognize the situation as it stands and understand the task facing us — especially with respect to Wales’ position in terms of relative wealth and public spending today. However, there is a large caveat attached to any such considerations, namely that there is a certain amount of guesswork attached to many of the figures that are used as indicators. For example, although we do know what our exports outside of the UK are to the EU, USA and other trade partners, we do not know what the internal UK exports from Wales are. GDP should therefore be described as an estimate only, with no known error margin for that estimate either.
With respect to the fiscal balance, in March 2020, Cardiff University’s Wales Governance Centre published an update on public spending in Wales and the potential impact of independence. This report is to be particularly welcomed given the absence of information regarding Wales’ fiscal affairs . It found that while some £29.5bn in taxes was raised in Wales in 2018-19 , public expenditure was some £43bn.
Those opposed to independence argue that these figures put an end to any talk of independence. Wales has a fiscal gap of £13.5bn, and unless we can close that gap, independence means either massive tax hikes, or cuts in public services.
BUT IS THIS REALLY THE CASE?
It is important to recognize that our deficit at the moment is about 18 per cent of GDP. Before the COVID-19 pandemic this deficit was coming down, and it should be noted that £5 billion of the deficit is a result of state pensions — reflecting the current imbalance in our ageing population. The figures included in the Wales Governance Centre report include money that is being spent in Wales, but they also include allocations for UK-wide spending that are arguably disproportionately high. Much of this money is spent in other parts of the UK, with Wales seeing none of the benefits.
Take, for instance, the HS2 high-speed rail link between London and Birmingham (currently under construction), the proposed HS3 link in the North of England, and Crossrail in London. Despite the fact that all of these projects are based entirely in England, the UK government says that Welsh people will benefit from them, so they count part of the cost against Welsh public spending. Likewise, the UK government sets £1.9bn of defence spending against the Welsh budget - a figure that could also be greatly reduced in an independent Wales (see the section on Defence). Westminster MPs have approved the refurbishing of the Houses of Parliament in London, at a cost of £4bn, and a part of that cost will be counted against Welsh public expenditure. It seems there is plenty we could cut from “Welsh” public expenditure without it making a significant difference to Wales.
When considering government expenditure and revenue in Wales it is also instructive to look to Scotland where reports, similar to the one produced by the Wales Governance Centre, have been produced for many years and there is some debate about how they should bear upon the debate about independence. Economists Jim and Margaret Cuthbert have studied GERS (Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland) over a number of years and provided criticism that has driven the evolution of the report, and in one of their more recent publications it has been argued that despite improvements these reports can only provide a partial view of the situation regarding finances. In particular we should consider that they cannot include information on capital and investment flows that inform the annual ‘Pink Book’ published by the Office of National Statistics for the UK economy — and that this data can potentially make a very significant difference to the overall picture.
There are also outstanding questions about the limits and shortcomings of the data that is used for these reports, including the fact that numerous sums must be estimated from UK expenditure as Westminster effectively refuses to provide the more accurate data that is required. Richard Murphy from the University of London is one economist who has taken up these questions recently to challenge some of the underlying assumptions in the debate.
‘ENGLAND AND WALES’ MEANS NO WELSH DATA
Moreover, in Wales at present, all companies here are registered in England & Wales, as we have a single legal jurisdiction. As a consequence, companies that often have more than one factory or office site will register in England and all taxes are collated in the English Headquarters with no clear distinction of what taxes (especially corporation tax) are being raised by the Wales site. The Office of National Statistics simply does not have this information.
The key point is that the total of expenditure in reports like GERS says very little about the total public expenditure a Welsh government might deploy after independence. With respect to revenue, GERS describes the status quo and the consequences of tax decisions made at Westminster. In itself, the GERS revenue figures give some sense of the short term challenges, but they say relatively little about the tax revenues which could be available to a Welsh government under the different circumstances brought about through independence. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 22:23 - Nov 25 with 790 views | Dewi1jack |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 18:11 - Nov 25 by Swanseaman |
With the polls hovering around 28% to 33% now, it would be a close one. 28% of the 3.1M would work out as 44.5% out of the people who identify as Welsh. |
Which will only work out if the Senedd change the voting age to new born.
Wouldn't put that past the likes of Plaid, Dripford and Born Guessing if they thought they could engineer (fix) the result
Or we can have a best of 60 referendum (or until the Indies get the result they want) just like when the thieving, b'stard Senedd was set up  | |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 23:06 - Nov 25 with 770 views | Dewi1jack |
KIlkenny
2 paragraphs in the tripe you have rehashed from every independance argument ever put forward, put an end to your argument
""With respect to the fiscal balance, in March 2020, Cardiff University’s Wales Governance Centre published an update on public spending in Wales and the potential impact of independence. This report is to be particularly welcomed given the absence of information regarding Wales’ fiscal affairs . It found that while some £29.5bn in taxes was raised in Wales in 2018-19 , public expenditure was some £43bn.
Those opposed to independence argue that these figures put an end to any talk of independence. Wales has a fiscal gap of £13.5bn, and unless we can close that gap, independence means either massive tax hikes, or cuts in public services.""
So the question still stands.
The question I posed when you said to me not to be laughing but to listen.
From the very 1st day of an Independent Wales, How the lovinfuk does an Independant Wales pay for it's Independence without the English/ UK taxpayers having to chip in?
Try answering it by putting forward your own reasoned opinions rather than rehashing bollox that makes no sense whatsoever.
And yes, I'm fuken laughing at you.
And all the Yes Cymru widow Krankie followers.
Because you prove my point, without me trying.
Without me having to get the crayons out either, to make explaining it to you a bit easier
I think you have been schooled by around 6 or 7 posters in this thread alone.
About time you gave up politics me thinks.
You're worse than Dripford and Born Guessing at it | |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 23:28 - Nov 25 with 757 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 23:08 - Nov 25 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The law is never cut and dried you must know that by now surely? Lawyers debate technical meanings for days
They can even delve into things like "what was the law amended to do" (like allowing minor out to shoot ducks on farm) if they want to. In UK 'reasonable' is a word they like. It is 'reasonable' to expect a minor to be allowed to discharge a automatic machine gun in a public place. They could have gone down the spirit of the law route. If they wanted to nail him they would have grounds.
The kid was foolish and very naive (being 17) so I do have grounds to suggest he had not studied the law.
You can shoot people and not kill them even with that fearsome weapon. One guy was injured in the arm.
Another day another man with a flag to wave. |
Not when it is written in clear terms it isn't, it took the judge all of 30 seconds to throw it out with no objections from the prosecution.
Legal.
He was not foolish or naïve, hence why he went there armed knowing there was a possibility he may be attacked for putting out their fires. You have no grounds to state he didn't know the law.
You can shoot someone and not kill them, yes. However it is not recommended when your life is in danger. That man who was shot in the arm was pointing a loaded gun at Rittenhouse's head at the time, he could have picked the gun up with his other hand and fired again.
I wouldn't have been so lenient. | |
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| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 00:23 - Nov 26 with 743 views | WalterBoyd |
| Racist behaviour and a lack of club action on 23:28 - Nov 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not when it is written in clear terms it isn't, it took the judge all of 30 seconds to throw it out with no objections from the prosecution.
Legal.
He was not foolish or naïve, hence why he went there armed knowing there was a possibility he may be attacked for putting out their fires. You have no grounds to state he didn't know the law.
You can shoot someone and not kill them, yes. However it is not recommended when your life is in danger. That man who was shot in the arm was pointing a loaded gun at Rittenhouse's head at the time, he could have picked the gun up with his other hand and fired again.
I wouldn't have been so lenient. |
Enjoy your day everyone. [Post edited 26 Nov 2021 0:28]
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