| Shooting migrants boats on 16:50 - Oct 4 with 929 views | controversial_jack |
| Shooting migrants boats on 15:48 - Oct 4 by Catullus |
Wasn't Stalingrad where the Russians stoped the German advance? Hitler wanted a quick victory, he needed the oil fields and raw materials in the east. The Russians used a scorched earth policy to try and slow the Germans down hoping if they could make it to the winter it would do what it historically did, like when it also helped defeat Napoleon.
The Germans almost always prevailed, my grandpa was at Tobruk, he might disagree, if he was here to make his point.
Hitler made 2 great mistakes, first he didn't push through with invading us and then he launched Barbarossa. Letting us stand gave the USA the launch pad they needed and bringing the Russians in securedh his fate. Mind you, if the Japanese hadn't attacked the USA and supported the Germans in Europe instead the world would be a very different place. |
The Germans launched a massive Blitzkrieg attack on Russia, but eventually it slowed down.Not necessarily because of the winter or scorched earth, but because of stretched supply lines, a lack of decent roads etc and Russian resistance.They underestimated Russian reserves and their economy and their commitment. It turned into a war of attrition in which the Russians prevailed.
The campaign in N Africa was different. Britain had the numerical and material advantage and used that to good effect, however even then the Germans gave us and the commonwealth troops a torrid time indeed. The German army in attack and defence consistently and tactically outfought the allies. Everything i have read from historians, suggests the British army during ww2 didn't generally fight very well. |  | |  |
| Shooting migrants boats on 17:32 - Oct 4 with 916 views | Catullus |
| Shooting migrants boats on 16:50 - Oct 4 by controversial_jack |
The Germans launched a massive Blitzkrieg attack on Russia, but eventually it slowed down.Not necessarily because of the winter or scorched earth, but because of stretched supply lines, a lack of decent roads etc and Russian resistance.They underestimated Russian reserves and their economy and their commitment. It turned into a war of attrition in which the Russians prevailed.
The campaign in N Africa was different. Britain had the numerical and material advantage and used that to good effect, however even then the Germans gave us and the commonwealth troops a torrid time indeed. The German army in attack and defence consistently and tactically outfought the allies. Everything i have read from historians, suggests the British army during ww2 didn't generally fight very well. |
It was the scorched erth policy that helped stretch German supply lines. They could find no supplies, nothing of help as they got further into Russia. The Russians destroyed roads and bridges whenever they could, they burnt crops and dismantled and transported entire factories to the more EAsterly parts of Russia. They left nothing for the Germans which meant they had to ship ever increasing supplies further and further.
Scorched earth was part of the war of attrition.
Tell British Commando's they didn't fight well (my grandpa was a Commando btw), tell the Desert Rats they didn't fight well. Until the USA entered the war, British and Commonwealth troops were vastly outnumbered and relatively poorly equipped.
Tell the RAF and Royal Navy they didn't do well.
If Britain hadn't held out the whole world would have looked very different. If Hitler had had another year many of his super weapons, the Jet fighter, the fore'srunners of ICBM and crucially, his nuclear weapons might have come into service then the whole world might have burned under Nazi oppression. | |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 17:52 - Oct 4 with 909 views | Boundy |
| Shooting migrants boats on 17:32 - Oct 4 by Catullus |
It was the scorched erth policy that helped stretch German supply lines. They could find no supplies, nothing of help as they got further into Russia. The Russians destroyed roads and bridges whenever they could, they burnt crops and dismantled and transported entire factories to the more EAsterly parts of Russia. They left nothing for the Germans which meant they had to ship ever increasing supplies further and further.
Scorched earth was part of the war of attrition.
Tell British Commando's they didn't fight well (my grandpa was a Commando btw), tell the Desert Rats they didn't fight well. Until the USA entered the war, British and Commonwealth troops were vastly outnumbered and relatively poorly equipped.
Tell the RAF and Royal Navy they didn't do well.
If Britain hadn't held out the whole world would have looked very different. If Hitler had had another year many of his super weapons, the Jet fighter, the fore'srunners of ICBM and crucially, his nuclear weapons might have come into service then the whole world might have burned under Nazi oppression. |
Not forgetting the Burma campaign specifically Imphal - Kohima and that was the problem it was the forgotten army . But a battle which showed that the Japanese could be beaten at their own game and were decisively, and turned the war in the far east .
I suppose Its very easy to be a critic from the comfort of your armchair | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 18:40 - Oct 4 with 895 views | controversial_jack |
| Shooting migrants boats on 17:32 - Oct 4 by Catullus |
It was the scorched erth policy that helped stretch German supply lines. They could find no supplies, nothing of help as they got further into Russia. The Russians destroyed roads and bridges whenever they could, they burnt crops and dismantled and transported entire factories to the more EAsterly parts of Russia. They left nothing for the Germans which meant they had to ship ever increasing supplies further and further.
Scorched earth was part of the war of attrition.
Tell British Commando's they didn't fight well (my grandpa was a Commando btw), tell the Desert Rats they didn't fight well. Until the USA entered the war, British and Commonwealth troops were vastly outnumbered and relatively poorly equipped.
Tell the RAF and Royal Navy they didn't do well.
If Britain hadn't held out the whole world would have looked very different. If Hitler had had another year many of his super weapons, the Jet fighter, the fore'srunners of ICBM and crucially, his nuclear weapons might have come into service then the whole world might have burned under Nazi oppression. |
The RAF and Navy aren't the army.
A huge army of 3 million, doesn't scavenge as it goes along. It's not going to find food, clothing or ammo by the roadside, it has to take supplies with it.The road and rail infrastructure was very poor. You are correct about stretching the supply lines
British and commonwealth troops were not poorly equipped or supplied, admittedly their tanks were inferior to that of the Germans, but they had decent artillery. they outnumbered the Germans in N Africa too.
I'm sure your grandpa fought well, many individual units did, including the commandos.
Britain, did hold out well as we had control of the skies and the North Atlantic. There was never any chance of the Germans invading while the RN and RAF was still strong.
British infantry got run out of France, was humiliated in the far east until, Bill Slim turned the 14th army around.They did well against inferior opposition such as the Italians, but when up against the Germans , did not do so well. That was the same for the US troops as well
Don't take it personally, it's just what I have read from historians such as Max Hastings etc. | | | |
| Shooting migrants boats on 22:40 - Oct 4 with 857 views | DJack |
| Shooting migrants boats on 09:44 - Oct 4 by Catullus |
Which would you rather, the migrants were prevented from getting out to see or many lives were lost iduring a very dangerous crossing in treacherous waters?
Is it ok with you that whole families die in the channel?
Are you happy that children are getting drowned?
The people traffickers certainly don't care when they put them in the water in boats not fit for purpose and often downright dangerous. Better tp get a bit wet in the tide than to drown out at sea wouldn't you say? |
You sound like a pearl clutching conservative(small c) with hysterical claims... A right chickin lickin. Small arms and destruction of inanimate objects is is letting the gammons know that something is being done, not solving the problems. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 10:31 - Oct 5 with 812 views | Catullus |
| Shooting migrants boats on 22:40 - Oct 4 by DJack |
You sound like a pearl clutching conservative(small c) with hysterical claims... A right chickin lickin. Small arms and destruction of inanimate objects is is letting the gammons know that something is being done, not solving the problems. |
So you don't want to see these poor people stopped from going into one of the worlds busiest shipping lanes in overcrowded, unsuitable and dangerous boats then?
You'd rather they risked their lives and see entire families drowned before trying to stop them at the beaches?
Very humanitarian of you.
I've seen the news braodcasts live from the channel. I've seen the reporter talking to people in these boats, no water, at sea for many hours and having to bail out by hand.
Ok the numbers of drownings aren't enormous 300 in 20 years, 36 of them children, but those are the ones we know about. How many actually go missing? What is an acceptable number of deaths to you? | |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 10:56 - Oct 5 with 798 views | Catullus |
| Shooting migrants boats on 18:40 - Oct 4 by controversial_jack |
The RAF and Navy aren't the army.
A huge army of 3 million, doesn't scavenge as it goes along. It's not going to find food, clothing or ammo by the roadside, it has to take supplies with it.The road and rail infrastructure was very poor. You are correct about stretching the supply lines
British and commonwealth troops were not poorly equipped or supplied, admittedly their tanks were inferior to that of the Germans, but they had decent artillery. they outnumbered the Germans in N Africa too.
I'm sure your grandpa fought well, many individual units did, including the commandos.
Britain, did hold out well as we had control of the skies and the North Atlantic. There was never any chance of the Germans invading while the RN and RAF was still strong.
British infantry got run out of France, was humiliated in the far east until, Bill Slim turned the 14th army around.They did well against inferior opposition such as the Italians, but when up against the Germans , did not do so well. That was the same for the US troops as well
Don't take it personally, it's just what I have read from historians such as Max Hastings etc. |
I'm not taking it personally I just disagree with you.
For example, when you say not poorly equipped, yes we were compared to the Germans, especially the BEF, they were using outdated equipment, the Germans had modern weapons. Rhe Schmeisser MP40, the MG34 and MG42 and the Luger were all better than the British counterparts. The MG42 is so good it is still in use in some places today and has been copied and adapted by several countries. They had better tanks, very good fighter aircraft and we had nothing at all like the Stuka which terrified anybody who heard it coming and finally, artillery, possibly the finest artillery piece of the war was the 88mm flak cannon used as an anti aircraft and anti tank gun.
Armies always scavenge, they look for food, for fuel and ammunition. I refer you to Boundy's post about the Sten gun, popular amongst British troops (even though it was unreliable) because it used the same ammo as the Germans and so spare ammo was easy to find. One of the big reasons why Barbarossa failed was logistics. The Germans couldn't get supplies through quick enough and they couldn't find supplies either, it had all been removed or destroyed.
It was a Soviet strategy to delay the Germans until a historically succesful weapon came into play, the Russian winter. The Russian roads were very poor and they had a different railway gauge too which also helped stump the Germans. Just as well because the Russian airfoce was shoddy!
I guess it depends which historians you read because there are many different opinions. I will stick by my opinion that if Hitler hadn't attacked Russia but had concentrated on beating us, the war would have gone very differently. | |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 14:50 - Oct 5 with 777 views | DJack |
| Shooting migrants boats on 10:31 - Oct 5 by Catullus |
So you don't want to see these poor people stopped from going into one of the worlds busiest shipping lanes in overcrowded, unsuitable and dangerous boats then?
You'd rather they risked their lives and see entire families drowned before trying to stop them at the beaches?
Very humanitarian of you.
I've seen the news braodcasts live from the channel. I've seen the reporter talking to people in these boats, no water, at sea for many hours and having to bail out by hand.
Ok the numbers of drownings aren't enormous 300 in 20 years, 36 of them children, but those are the ones we know about. How many actually go missing? What is an acceptable number of deaths to you? |
Where did I state any of your hysterical post was what I wanted? I'll wait for your reply...in fact I won't bother and I'll log of now you bellwhiff. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 15:32 - Oct 5 with 769 views | Catullus |
| Shooting migrants boats on 14:50 - Oct 5 by DJack |
Where did I state any of your hysterical post was what I wanted? I'll wait for your reply...in fact I won't bother and I'll log of now you bellwhiff. |
Off you go then but if stopping people dying is what you want why would you object to these boats being stopped as often as possible?
These people can come to the Uk much more safely and apply for asylum, they don't need to risk their lives in the open sea. | |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 16:10 - Oct 5 with 758 views | howenjack |
Re Stalingrad - The Russians played a very clever game in that they let the Germans come on to them into an urban environment and out of their usual wide open attacking space where they were masters . The same tactics were used 2000 years earlier by Hannibal at the battle of Cannae . Hannibal let the Roman legions surge towards his troops then surrounded them and killed them all from the outside in . In effect the legions were trapped by sheer numbers , rather like a large football crowd unable to move the slaughter was huge .
In Stalingrad because the Germans were so close to the Russians they couldn't call in air support for fear of hitting their own . The ruins of the city ( from previous bombing and artillery attacks ) provided a killing ground for Russian snipers Zaetsev alone accounted for over 600. The Russians were told to keep the enemy close and worked in small detachments of a dozen or so . The battle became house to house "rattenkrieg" where the grenade and bayonet ruled . Stalin was also cute in not allowing the civilians to leave because he knew his troops would fight harder for a live population than an empty city.
Hitler was obsessed with Stalingrad because of the name Stalin , crazy when you think about it . | | | |
| Shooting migrants boats on 16:22 - Oct 5 with 753 views | Catullus |
| Shooting migrants boats on 16:10 - Oct 5 by howenjack |
Re Stalingrad - The Russians played a very clever game in that they let the Germans come on to them into an urban environment and out of their usual wide open attacking space where they were masters . The same tactics were used 2000 years earlier by Hannibal at the battle of Cannae . Hannibal let the Roman legions surge towards his troops then surrounded them and killed them all from the outside in . In effect the legions were trapped by sheer numbers , rather like a large football crowd unable to move the slaughter was huge .
In Stalingrad because the Germans were so close to the Russians they couldn't call in air support for fear of hitting their own . The ruins of the city ( from previous bombing and artillery attacks ) provided a killing ground for Russian snipers Zaetsev alone accounted for over 600. The Russians were told to keep the enemy close and worked in small detachments of a dozen or so . The battle became house to house "rattenkrieg" where the grenade and bayonet ruled . Stalin was also cute in not allowing the civilians to leave because he knew his troops would fight harder for a live population than an empty city.
Hitler was obsessed with Stalingrad because of the name Stalin , crazy when you think about it . |
Zaetsev's figures were often inflated, I've read that at Stalingrad he klled 225.
Have you read 'War of the Rats' by David L Robbins? I have it on my Kindle but I never get around to it. | |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 17:01 - Oct 5 with 720 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Shooting migrants boats on 15:32 - Oct 5 by Catullus |
Off you go then but if stopping people dying is what you want why would you object to these boats being stopped as often as possible?
These people can come to the Uk much more safely and apply for asylum, they don't need to risk their lives in the open sea. |
How?
Reading the replies on here is sad. It really is.
Partly people’s attitude to asylum seekers and partly people’s absolute ignorance of the law. | | | |
| Shooting migrants boats on 17:04 - Oct 5 with 717 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Shooting migrants boats on 17:45 - Oct 3 by Brynmill_Jack |
Assylum? From France??
What are those beastly French doing to them? |
Do you ever wonder why you agree with the most right wing Home Secretary imaginable on so many things and yet claim to be on the left side of the Labour Party? | | | |
| Shooting migrants boats on 17:10 - Oct 5 with 720 views | howenjack |
| Shooting migrants boats on 16:22 - Oct 5 by Catullus |
Zaetsev's figures were often inflated, I've read that at Stalingrad he klled 225.
Have you read 'War of the Rats' by David L Robbins? I have it on my Kindle but I never get around to it. |
No I haven't read that . Zaetsev was made a hero of the Soviet Union so yes there was an amount of propaganda going on actual figures ? who knows - the battle lasted 5 months so killing on average 4 a day would get 600 which was what I read, certainly not impossible. | | | |
| Shooting migrants boats on 19:35 - Oct 5 with 694 views | Catullus |
| Shooting migrants boats on 17:10 - Oct 5 by howenjack |
No I haven't read that . Zaetsev was made a hero of the Soviet Union so yes there was an amount of propaganda going on actual figures ? who knows - the battle lasted 5 months so killing on average 4 a day would get 600 which was what I read, certainly not impossible. |
No, certainly not impossible. I've also read that Zaetsev started the tactic of 2 man teams, one sniper and one spotter, a tactic still used today.
He has a monument somewhere and I think they have his rifle on display in a museum. The USSR is gone but the heroes remain. | |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 20:08 - Oct 5 with 675 views | Boundy |
| Shooting migrants boats on 16:22 - Oct 5 by Catullus |
Zaetsev's figures were often inflated, I've read that at Stalingrad he klled 225.
Have you read 'War of the Rats' by David L Robbins? I have it on my Kindle but I never get around to it. |
The film "Enemy at the Gate " was based on that period , Konig the his adversary in the film
König is mentioned both in Zaytsev's memoirs Notes of a Sniper and William Craig's 1973 non-fiction book Enemy at the Gates: The Battle for Stalingrad. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 20:19 - Oct 5 with 663 views | onehunglow |
| Shooting migrants boats on 17:04 - Oct 5 by londonlisa2001 |
Do you ever wonder why you agree with the most right wing Home Secretary imaginable on so many things and yet claim to be on the left side of the Labour Party? |
Lisa
Patel is anything but right wing.As insipid as May. No supporter of the Police either.If she were ,she would be drawing attention the the fact vast majority of Police are decent people.
Without them,just what?
If we had a right wing Home Sec over the years,our justice system would not be so appalling as victims have no justice. | |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 20:47 - Oct 5 with 640 views | Catullus |
| Shooting migrants boats on 20:08 - Oct 5 by Boundy |
The film "Enemy at the Gate " was based on that period , Konig the his adversary in the film
König is mentioned both in Zaytsev's memoirs Notes of a Sniper and William Craig's 1973 non-fiction book Enemy at the Gates: The Battle for Stalingrad. |
The film is loosely based on the book I mentioned but (and this is what I hate about films being "based on") I hate it when they muck about with ths story and put fictional things in for extra drama. Zaystev/Zaetsev/Zaitsev (sic) was a real person whose story doesn't need extra drama, the truth is compelling enough.
It also seems to me that film was made with a political motivation to make the Soviets look bad, they didn't need the help,
https://www.rbth.com/history/329939-enemy-at-gates-how-accurately-depicts | |
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| Shooting migrants boats on 20:54 - Oct 6 with 590 views | howenjack |
I watched a documentary in which some Russian veterans of Stalingrad were discussing the battle . One veteran said something along the lines of ( I can't remember the exact details ) " I started one day armed with a submachine gun 3 grenades and a pistol some 16 hours later I woke up covered in blood with no grenades no submachine gun and no pistol but with a rifle with a bayonet on the end I have no recollection of what happened in the 16 hours that had elapsed "
Another guy stated that he had been caught out in the open by a German sniper . He took cover behind some frozen corpses and could hear the thud of bullets hitting them . Everytime he made a slight movement a shot rang out . He was pinned down in the same position for some 6 hours in sub zero conditions . He was barely alive when he was rescued by his comrades. | | | |
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