| Republic or Monarchy 10:27 - Apr 10 with 18559 views | QPR_John |
Reading the Prince Philip thread and some suggesting a republic set me thinking. I was going to post this on that thread but decided to open a new one. I'm interested in the reasons of those that want a republic. Do they also want to get rid of the title "Head of State". If so then leave it to the Prime Minister and you have an argument. If we do carry on the HoS how is he or she appointed. Just nominated by someone or some group or elected. Lets forget the former. If elected surely they would want some power which then sifts how we are governed. When would they be elected, at a General Election or a fixed term. If no political power who would vote even the General Election gets poor turn outs. Where would they live, Buckingham Palace or some two up two down in Railway Cuttings. How much would the office cost more or less than the monarchy. Do people who want a republic just want it because they do not like the idea of a monarchy or have they given it more thought |  | | |  |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:32 - Apr 12 with 2279 views | Ranger_Things |
| Republic or Monarchy on 12:14 - Apr 12 by QPR_John |
As the Americans have denied us access to the US diplomats wife who killed Harry Dunn while driving |
Harry Dunn's death was an absolute tragedy but the cases aren't at all comparable. The American woman legitimately escaped charges by claiming diplomatic immunity. Whether she truly had it is another matter and arguably our Government should have done a lot more to press the case. As unfair as it seems this defence is recognised by both British and international law. Andrew and other Royals have escaped multiple scandals and possible criminal charges in multiple countries because of pressure applied by the establishment, and reporting has been silenced through the use of super injunctions plus pressure on editors. Out of all of the Royal family only the Queen is legally protected from prosecution by way of 'Sovereign immunity' but the sad reality is they are all above the law. [Post edited 12 Apr 2021 17:43]
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| Republic or Monarchy on 17:44 - Apr 12 with 2231 views | The_Beast1976 |
Republic | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 19:23 - Apr 12 with 2167 views | QPR_John |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:32 - Apr 12 by Ranger_Things |
Harry Dunn's death was an absolute tragedy but the cases aren't at all comparable. The American woman legitimately escaped charges by claiming diplomatic immunity. Whether she truly had it is another matter and arguably our Government should have done a lot more to press the case. As unfair as it seems this defence is recognised by both British and international law. Andrew and other Royals have escaped multiple scandals and possible criminal charges in multiple countries because of pressure applied by the establishment, and reporting has been silenced through the use of super injunctions plus pressure on editors. Out of all of the Royal family only the Queen is legally protected from prosecution by way of 'Sovereign immunity' but the sad reality is they are all above the law. [Post edited 12 Apr 2021 17:43]
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You really do not have to explain diplomatic immunity to me. | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 07:04 - Apr 13 with 2014 views | Ranger_Things |
| Republic or Monarchy on 19:23 - Apr 12 by QPR_John |
You really do not have to explain diplomatic immunity to me. |
Apologies, I didn't mean to appear patronising but you made the comparison and I just pointed out why it's not valid.
Off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more, the only similar case to Prince Andrew's (most recent) I can think of is the murder of the US journalist Jamal Khashoggi. T his was carried out on the direct orders of Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman but the Americans, despite overwhelming proof, have been unable to bring him to justice.
Despite no basis in law, being a member of a Royal family literally allows you to get away with murder. [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 7:56]
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| Republic or Monarchy on 09:05 - Apr 13 with 1950 views | Phildo |
I would vote for a republic given the chance.
My in laws were once invited to a cocktail party in the 70s the the Queen was invited to. When she came in to the room one guest had his elbow lightly on the mantlepiece. She looked around saw him and said ' Is there something wrong with your back' in other words stand up straight even at this informal event for my presence. The bloke was mortified. Not for me.
I like the Irish model and they have had a run of good Presidents- the current one is really excellent.
I do think the monarchy can survive the Queen though. To do so I suspect they have to scale it right back including the ostentatious living like a lot of the European royals do. Not sure the young royals and their wives think that is what they signed up to though. Harry moaning about lack of money and wanting to live privately as he buys a mansion in Hollywood is a little tell as to how the younger royals see the world and I think that will lead to a lot of problems for them. |  | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 11:06 - Apr 13 with 1891 views | QPR_John |
| Republic or Monarchy on 07:04 - Apr 13 by Ranger_Things |
Apologies, I didn't mean to appear patronising but you made the comparison and I just pointed out why it's not valid.
Off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more, the only similar case to Prince Andrew's (most recent) I can think of is the murder of the US journalist Jamal Khashoggi. T his was carried out on the direct orders of Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman but the Americans, despite overwhelming proof, have been unable to bring him to justice.
Despite no basis in law, being a member of a Royal family literally allows you to get away with murder. [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 7:56]
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Accepted. But I think the comparison was correct as there is some doubt as to whether the person in question does actually have diplomatic immunity. The fact that our Government did not push the case shows that some people are above the law for the sake of expediency whether royal or not. | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 11:56 - Apr 13 with 1841 views | dmm |
| Republic or Monarchy on 11:06 - Apr 13 by QPR_John |
Accepted. But I think the comparison was correct as there is some doubt as to whether the person in question does actually have diplomatic immunity. The fact that our Government did not push the case shows that some people are above the law for the sake of expediency whether royal or not. |
One person above the law springs immediately to mind; Boris de Pfeffel Johnson [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 11:56]
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| Republic or Monarchy on 12:10 - Apr 13 with 1814 views | Esox_Lucius |
Tangential to the main topic is the system of allowing a family of inbreds to receive a substantial amount of money from the state and nominally rule the country. There is also the mainstream preoccupation with burying any scandal attached to said family from Nonce Andrew's involvement with child trafficking to his actual genealogy.
https://www.royalfoibles.com/the-queens-favorite-bastard/?fbclid=IwAR3WAkFqQnmPJ |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Republic or Monarchy on 17:03 - Apr 13 with 1742 views | QPR_John |
After six pages I'm pretty clear what some think of the monarchy but still none the wiser how those that want to disband it see the logistics of introducing a republic. | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:16 - Apr 13 with 1720 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:03 - Apr 13 by QPR_John |
After six pages I'm pretty clear what some think of the monarchy but still none the wiser how those that want to disband it see the logistics of introducing a republic. |
Not going to offer my opinion on the monarchy, because I’m hated enough, but 200+ countries and 90% of the rest of the world have successfully transitioned from Monarchies.
We’ve been told for the last five years that transitioning from a long standing form of governance is a piece of piss.
Administrative difficulty is not really a acceptable roadblock if we democratically vote for it. [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 17:58]
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| Republic or Monarchy on 17:19 - Apr 13 with 1712 views | Cliff |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:03 - Apr 13 by QPR_John |
After six pages I'm pretty clear what some think of the monarchy but still none the wiser how those that want to disband it see the logistics of introducing a republic. |
It's not our job to come up with the logistics, any more than it is our job to negotiate trade deals, we elect a government based on the policies we want implemented and they have the job of sorting out the logistics |  | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 19:20 - Apr 13 with 1610 views | QPR_John |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:19 - Apr 13 by Cliff |
It's not our job to come up with the logistics, any more than it is our job to negotiate trade deals, we elect a government based on the policies we want implemented and they have the job of sorting out the logistics |
It might not be your job but you might have an opinion of how it would work out. I was just generally interested. [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 19:22]
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| Republic or Monarchy on 19:24 - Apr 13 with 1602 views | QPR_John |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:16 - Apr 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Not going to offer my opinion on the monarchy, because I’m hated enough, but 200+ countries and 90% of the rest of the world have successfully transitioned from Monarchies.
We’ve been told for the last five years that transitioning from a long standing form of governance is a piece of piss.
Administrative difficulty is not really a acceptable roadblock if we democratically vote for it. [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 17:58]
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Are you admitting that the EU is a form of governance | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 19:34 - Apr 13 with 1587 views | Cliff |
| Republic or Monarchy on 19:20 - Apr 13 by QPR_John |
It might not be your job but you might have an opinion of how it would work out. I was just generally interested. [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 19:22]
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I don't really go for the solution used for the Romanov branch of the family, so I can see it being a bit difficult deciding what the future relationship is between the what would be then ex-royals and the state, but I think a reasonable compromise might be that they can keep some of the property they occupy and we would probably still need to provide ongoing police protection for the foreseeable future. Apart from that, no official duties and so no state funding and they can pay tax as a normal citizen.
As for who to replace them as head of state - no one, a lot of countries seem to get by perfectly without one I don't see why we shouldn't. | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 19:53 - Apr 13 with 1570 views | QPR_John |
| Republic or Monarchy on 19:34 - Apr 13 by Cliff |
I don't really go for the solution used for the Romanov branch of the family, so I can see it being a bit difficult deciding what the future relationship is between the what would be then ex-royals and the state, but I think a reasonable compromise might be that they can keep some of the property they occupy and we would probably still need to provide ongoing police protection for the foreseeable future. Apart from that, no official duties and so no state funding and they can pay tax as a normal citizen.
As for who to replace them as head of state - no one, a lot of countries seem to get by perfectly without one I don't see why we shouldn't. |
"As for who to replace them as head of state - no one, a lot of countries seem to get by perfectly without one I don't see why we shouldn't."
You may well be right. Cannot see a U.K. Prime minister of whatever political persuasion giving up power to a president. | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 20:02 - Apr 13 with 1557 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Republic or Monarchy on 19:24 - Apr 13 by QPR_John |
Are you admitting that the EU is a form of governance |
Admission implies guilt, but otherwise yes, of course.
Has anyone on either side of the debate said otherwise? [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 20:05]
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| Republic or Monarchy on 16:06 - Apr 14 with 1377 views | QPR_John |
| Republic or Monarchy on 20:02 - Apr 13 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Admission implies guilt, but otherwise yes, of course.
Has anyone on either side of the debate said otherwise? [Post edited 13 Apr 2021 20:05]
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It just made me think how the remainers mocked the "take back control" argument. | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:16 - Apr 14 with 1330 views | Ashdown_Ranger |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:32 - Apr 12 by Ranger_Things |
Harry Dunn's death was an absolute tragedy but the cases aren't at all comparable. The American woman legitimately escaped charges by claiming diplomatic immunity. Whether she truly had it is another matter and arguably our Government should have done a lot more to press the case. As unfair as it seems this defence is recognised by both British and international law. Andrew and other Royals have escaped multiple scandals and possible criminal charges in multiple countries because of pressure applied by the establishment, and reporting has been silenced through the use of super injunctions plus pressure on editors. Out of all of the Royal family only the Queen is legally protected from prosecution by way of 'Sovereign immunity' but the sad reality is they are all above the law. [Post edited 12 Apr 2021 17:43]
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Actually, the Americans only CLAIMED Sacoolas had diplomatic immunity, when it appears she probably didn't.
Stuff has inadvertently come out in the US Courts about Sacoolas, which has opened the door to the Dunn family continuing to push the case forward.
An American judge has said some very favourable things regarding the Dunn case and against Sacoolas - to the extent that the Mrs Sacoolas have now been 'persuaded' to meet the Dunn family in a pre-trial fact-finding 'deposition' - Anne Sacoolas and her husband will give their account of events under oath in front of Harry's mother and father.
The Dunn's just want Sacoolas to stand trial in the UK - the CPS has an warrant out for her arrest. |  | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:19 - Apr 14 with 1327 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Republic or Monarchy on 16:06 - Apr 14 by QPR_John |
It just made me think how the remainers mocked the "take back control" argument. |
I’m still mocking it if that helps. | | | |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:29 - Apr 14 with 1307 views | Ranger_Things |
| Republic or Monarchy on 17:16 - Apr 14 by Ashdown_Ranger |
Actually, the Americans only CLAIMED Sacoolas had diplomatic immunity, when it appears she probably didn't.
Stuff has inadvertently come out in the US Courts about Sacoolas, which has opened the door to the Dunn family continuing to push the case forward.
An American judge has said some very favourable things regarding the Dunn case and against Sacoolas - to the extent that the Mrs Sacoolas have now been 'persuaded' to meet the Dunn family in a pre-trial fact-finding 'deposition' - Anne Sacoolas and her husband will give their account of events under oath in front of Harry's mother and father.
The Dunn's just want Sacoolas to stand trial in the UK - the CPS has an warrant out for her arrest. |
Yeah, I said as much in my post. | | | |
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