| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places 07:49 - May 8 with 27492 views | isitme |
The English Football League will next week tell clubs in Leagues One and Two there is no chance of playing any more games this season and ask them to vote on a method to decide promotion and relegation.
EFL chairman Rick Parry told MPs on the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport select committee on Wednesday morning that a resolution to the season in the third and fourth tiers was only a matter of days away and it now seems a decision could come as early as Monday or Tuesday.
The Athletic understands the EFL board has already received several proposals from clubs, with the current favourite being a points-per-game (PPG) model weighted to reflect how many games the teams have played home and away.
The rationale for this idea is a non-weighted PPG calculation does not take into account the fact that some teams have four home games left, while others have six.
This season across the Football League, the home team has won 46 per cent of the time, with away teams winning only 26 per cent of the games. Over the last six EFL seasons, the average PPG at home is 1.55, compared to 1.19 away.
Under this method, which has been used to decide the tables in English grassroots club rugby union, each club’s PPG would be worked out for their home and away fixtures, then multiplied by 22 for League One, which had 23 clubs this season because of Bury’s demise last summer, and 23 for League Two and then added together to reach a total for the season.
The Athletic understands that a League One club has prepared a detailed explanation of this method, with a full set of final tables, and emailed it to the EFL board.
With the EFL admitting there is no chance of staging its traditional end-of-season play-offs in Leagues One and Two, the top three sides in the League One will be promoted to the Championship, with three going down to League Two, while four come up from League Two and only one goes down, to restore the EFL to its full quota of 72 teams.
The weighted PPG method does not change the top three in League One at all, meaning Coventry City would be crowned champions, with Rotherham United and Oxford United joining them in the Championship next season. The current bottom three – Tranmere Rovers, Southend United and Bolton Wanderers – would still be the bottom three, although Bolton would climb one spot, leaving Southend in last place.
In League Two, Swindon Town would leapfrog Crewe Alexandra into first place, with Plymouth Argyle staying in third but Cheltenham Town climbing over Exeter City to claim the final promotion spot. Stevenage Borough would remain in last place, despite the seven-point deduction Macclesfield Town received on Thursday for failing to fulfill a fixture or pay their players on time.
The Athletic has spoken to two other EFL clubs who said they were aware of this proposal and several others who said they were not, but every club approached said they knew of at least half a dozen different ideas that were circulating around the league. These include using the current tables to settle the finishing positions, a non-weighted PPG model and an idea to only count the first half of the season, which would be the first 22 games in League One and 23 games in League Two.
Some clubs have discussed using more complicated statistical models that factor in how hard each club’s run-in was before the season was suspended in March. There is considerable opposition to these models, though, with one club dismissing them as “hypothetical and unfair”.
The prospect of declaring the season “null and void” appears to have receded, as most clubs acknowledge this would be very unfair on the teams that have got themselves into the promotion place. It would also come with financial and legal risks.
However, any club faced with relegation is almost certainly going to object to being demoted on the basis of PPG, weighted or otherwise. This has led to some clubs suggesting either two or three clubs are promoted this season, with none relegated. Five teams would then be relegated from the divisions above next season, in order to reset them.
But this idea will face strong opposition from the English game’s bosses as it will lead to fixture congestion next season, complicate the distribution of central income and break the terms of the tripartite agreement the EFL, FA and Premier League signed when the top flight broke away from the EFL in 1992.
As things stand, however, both the Premier League and Championship are determined to finish this season’s fixtures in neutral stadiums behind closed doors, which would mean all these issues would be settled on the pitch in the top two divisions. |  | | |  |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:40 - May 22 with 3496 views | boromat |
Tranmere's proposed solution is to promote teams but don't relegate anyone.
Without thinking too hard about this I think it would mean more teams in LG1 next season, assuming that policy doesn't extend to the championship and Premier League. Seems a reasonable idea as long as those extra fixtures can be fit into an already busy fixture list. |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:53 - May 22 with 3464 views | KenBoon |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:40 - May 22 by boromat |
Tranmere's proposed solution is to promote teams but don't relegate anyone.
Without thinking too hard about this I think it would mean more teams in LG1 next season, assuming that policy doesn't extend to the championship and Premier League. Seems a reasonable idea as long as those extra fixtures can be fit into an already busy fixture list. |
Bolton and Southend have well earned relegations. I could see the argument of scrapping the playoffs though. The efl need to make sure that the teams that qualified for the playoffs in League Two can actually afford to take part in them knowing 0 ticket revenue and if they lose no increased television money. If it costs £200k to carry out all the tests, making training 'safe' and stuff then it's a heck of a gamble. |  | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:54 - May 22 with 3448 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:40 - May 22 by boromat |
Tranmere's proposed solution is to promote teams but don't relegate anyone.
Without thinking too hard about this I think it would mean more teams in LG1 next season, assuming that policy doesn't extend to the championship and Premier League. Seems a reasonable idea as long as those extra fixtures can be fit into an already busy fixture list. |
Why does it seem a reasonable idea? I just don't get it. Why can we reward teams who might get promotion, but not penalise teams who might have got relegated. It makes no sense. It's got to be all or nothing.
Tranmere have been in a relegation battle all season, as have us, Wimbledon, MK Dons, etc.
The league table would hardly change between March and May and instances like we achieved in 2017/18 are extreme one-offs.
There was an article I read that said in something like the last 25 years, the top three clubs in the third tier at the start of March all went up around 75% of the time, so the league table as it stands today would hardly change if the season had continued. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:43 - May 22 with 3369 views | NorthernDale |
What day to they the league 1 teams vote, next week and what odds can I get that the EFL will kick the issue in to the long grass for another week.
No doubt if they vote to finish the season, Peterborough will threaten more legal action and moan that if PPG is used, instead of weighted PPG, it cost them a place in the playoffs, because they would be replaced by Portsmouth. It would be like watching two dogs fighting over a bone, with Portsmouth and Peterborough arguing over the method to determine the play off spots. | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:51 - May 22 with 3335 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:43 - May 22 by NorthernDale |
What day to they the league 1 teams vote, next week and what odds can I get that the EFL will kick the issue in to the long grass for another week.
No doubt if they vote to finish the season, Peterborough will threaten more legal action and moan that if PPG is used, instead of weighted PPG, it cost them a place in the playoffs, because they would be replaced by Portsmouth. It would be like watching two dogs fighting over a bone, with Portsmouth and Peterborough arguing over the method to determine the play off spots. |
And even then, they might still not go up. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 15:36 - May 22 with 3283 views | SuddenLad |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:43 - May 22 by NorthernDale |
What day to they the league 1 teams vote, next week and what odds can I get that the EFL will kick the issue in to the long grass for another week.
No doubt if they vote to finish the season, Peterborough will threaten more legal action and moan that if PPG is used, instead of weighted PPG, it cost them a place in the playoffs, because they would be replaced by Portsmouth. It would be like watching two dogs fighting over a bone, with Portsmouth and Peterborough arguing over the method to determine the play off spots. |
If the EFL decides to accept a 51% majority decision of League One clubs and if that vote carries with 51% or more, Peterborough can do nothing about it. Except lump it. Who the hell do they think they are and what gives them the right to try and rock the boat? |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 17:18 - May 22 with 3183 views | electricblue |
The league 1 season should have been put to bed last week after the meeting.
To say that 6 teams have a sway over the majority is shocking and the EFL should have grown a pair and put a line under the season......
Once again the EFL are laughing stock when the governing body cowers away from making a final absolute decission..... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 17:58 - May 22 with 3096 views | ChaffRAFC |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:54 - May 22 by TVOS1907 |
Why does it seem a reasonable idea? I just don't get it. Why can we reward teams who might get promotion, but not penalise teams who might have got relegated. It makes no sense. It's got to be all or nothing.
Tranmere have been in a relegation battle all season, as have us, Wimbledon, MK Dons, etc.
The league table would hardly change between March and May and instances like we achieved in 2017/18 are extreme one-offs.
There was an article I read that said in something like the last 25 years, the top three clubs in the third tier at the start of March all went up around 75% of the time, so the league table as it stands today would hardly change if the season had continued. |
100% This!
If you agree to promote teams, you've have to relegate them as well based on the same method. All you do otherwise is needlessly disjoint the format of the divisions. If we don't do it this season, we'd have to have more relegation spots when football returns properly.
All or nothing as you say TVOS. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 18:30 - May 22 with 3030 views | James1980 |
How about 1 up 1 down from each division | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 18:32 - May 22 with 3030 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 13:54 - May 22 by TVOS1907 |
Why does it seem a reasonable idea? I just don't get it. Why can we reward teams who might get promotion, but not penalise teams who might have got relegated. It makes no sense. It's got to be all or nothing.
Tranmere have been in a relegation battle all season, as have us, Wimbledon, MK Dons, etc.
The league table would hardly change between March and May and instances like we achieved in 2017/18 are extreme one-offs.
There was an article I read that said in something like the last 25 years, the top three clubs in the third tier at the start of March all went up around 75% of the time, so the league table as it stands today would hardly change if the season had continued. |
Personally I think the biggest difference is that it’s already clear 3 (including the FFCBFC space) teams are down, Tranmere don’t need to finish above every other team fighting relegation, they just need to finish above 1. It is far from inconceivable that they could manage that, we all know that from our own exploits!
The team’s fighting at the top/play offs are playing for a raffle ticket, to put it very crudely.
Tranmere are probably about 4/6 to be relegated, whereas Peterborough are probably around 1/6 not to be promoted. So in other words, if we played the season to an end, Tranmere would survive 12 times and Peterborough would get promoted about 4.
The whole thing is self interest, understandably, but I can see Tranmere’s argument a lot clearer than that dickhead bully at London Rd! |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 20:35 - May 22 with 2894 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 18:30 - May 22 by James1980 |
How about 1 up 1 down from each division |
Why? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:31 - May 22 with 2858 views | James1980 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 20:35 - May 22 by TVOS1907 |
Why? |
Because ppg is based on too many assumptions. Perhaps top 2 bottom 2. It means the leagues in the next season are the same number of teams. No need for playing games behind closed doors. Share the prize money for playoff winner between the teams that mathematically could have achieved a playoff position. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:33 - May 22 with 2852 views | D_Alien |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:31 - May 22 by James1980 |
Because ppg is based on too many assumptions. Perhaps top 2 bottom 2. It means the leagues in the next season are the same number of teams. No need for playing games behind closed doors. Share the prize money for playoff winner between the teams that mathematically could have achieved a playoff position. |
Many of us were brought up with "2 up, 2 down" and i actually agree - scrap the playoffs |  |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:47 - May 22 with 2817 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:31 - May 22 by James1980 |
Because ppg is based on too many assumptions. Perhaps top 2 bottom 2. It means the leagues in the next season are the same number of teams. No need for playing games behind closed doors. Share the prize money for playoff winner between the teams that mathematically could have achieved a playoff position. |
PPG is based on things that have already happened.
Like I posted elsewhere, statistics show the tables hardly change from March to May. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:50 - May 22 with 2808 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:33 - May 22 by D_Alien |
Many of us were brought up with "2 up, 2 down" and i actually agree - scrap the playoffs |
I'd go with that, except I'd return to the pre-play-offs system of 3 up, 3 down in the top couple of divisions and 4 up, 3 down in the bottom two divisions to return League One to 24 teams.
Or anything that annoys Fleetwood and Peterborough. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:57 - May 22 with 2801 views | D_Alien |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:50 - May 22 by TVOS1907 |
I'd go with that, except I'd return to the pre-play-offs system of 3 up, 3 down in the top couple of divisions and 4 up, 3 down in the bottom two divisions to return League One to 24 teams.
Or anything that annoys Fleetwood and Peterborough. |
Was primarily thinking of the ending to this season
I preferred the playoffs when clubs in the two spots below automatic promotion played each other and then fought out a final against a club from the division above | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 22:02 - May 22 with 2771 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:57 - May 22 by D_Alien |
Was primarily thinking of the ending to this season
I preferred the playoffs when clubs in the two spots below automatic promotion played each other and then fought out a final against a club from the division above |
Sorry for any confusion, but I was also meaning the end of this season as a counter to James's suggestion.
I remember that system too, but it was changed to keep seasons alive for more clubs. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 22:07 - May 22 with 2767 views | D_Alien |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 22:02 - May 22 by TVOS1907 |
Sorry for any confusion, but I was also meaning the end of this season as a counter to James's suggestion.
I remember that system too, but it was changed to keep seasons alive for more clubs. |
The older system did, it's just two of the clubs were at the wrong end of the division rather than nearer the top! (or was it just one? Can't remember now) | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 22:13 - May 22 with 2762 views | James1980 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 21:47 - May 22 by TVOS1907 |
PPG is based on things that have already happened.
Like I posted elsewhere, statistics show the tables hardly change from March to May. |
As they say in investment adverts, past performance doesn't guarantee future returns. | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 22:13 - May 22 with 2752 views | TVOS1907 |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 22:07 - May 22 by D_Alien |
The older system did, it's just two of the clubs were at the wrong end of the division rather than nearer the top! (or was it just one? Can't remember now) |
One, but it only lasted a year or two. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 23:35 - May 24 with 2430 views | Shun |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:29 - May 26 with 2237 views | aleanddale |
Will this be decided this week do we think?
It’s June next week!! | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 14:44 - May 26 with 2045 views | isitme |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 08:29 - May 26 by aleanddale |
Will this be decided this week do we think?
It’s June next week!! |
I think there is a vote next Monday, or it might be a vote about a vote. The article I read said that things need to be sorted by the end of June as that is when contracts expire. If leagues are having play offs then teams need to have time to train and play the games. | | | |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 10:17 - May 27 with 1888 views | D_Alien |
Update on the likelihood of where teams might've finished in L1, based on historical records and statistical probability (using a x10,000 run model):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52689630
Dale finish above Accy in 17th place | |
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| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 15:22 - May 27 with 1687 views | electricblue |
| Exclusive: Leagues One and Two abandoned, clubs to vote how to decide places on 23:35 - May 24 by Shun |
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Like the greedy gits would hand that sort of money over.....
Never going to happen they would rather let clubs go to the wall....... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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