| Birch’s programme notes 12:09 - Dec 29 with 27557 views | marchamjack |
Can’t do the linky thing on my phone...thanks in advance to whoever puts them up...if anyone is still in any doubt about Trev being a puppet of the Yanks, have a read 😠|  |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 17:57 - Dec 30 with 2046 views | jasper_T |
| Birch’s programme notes on 16:58 - Dec 30 by jack247 |
Those three play in league two. Are we really better with the next Sheehans and Shepherds than James’ and McBurnies? |
We can't afford the James' and McBurnies any more. In their case fretting over academy rating is missing the forest for the trees - we're not in a position to spend over £100k each on young prospects and have them spend a few years in the reserves. We're going to have to make do with what's available while we're a mid-level Championship side in the far west. That's already the case in the current u23s side, which features a trio of local 17 year olds in the back 4 pretty regularly now.
The Shepherds and Sheehans (who Laudrup liked a lot and was unlucky with injuries) are what we'll have to work with. If they're not good enough might as well scrap the academy altogether. |  | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:02 - Dec 30 with 2017 views | SwanDownUnder |
who did i call boring? | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:03 - Dec 30 with 2005 views | IAN05 |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 17:47 - Dec 30 by cymrojack |
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 10:39]
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Two different groups that I have heard rumours about, University and Martin Morgan through his property company | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:06 - Dec 30 with 1995 views | SwanDownUnder |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:31 - Dec 30 by 34dfgdf54 |
The question was. Read slowly.
“Would you take relegation if it meant keeping academy”
And yes, yes I would. [Post edited 30 Dec 2019 17:32]
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oh sorry i didn't realise we were living in a fantasy land.
your a premier league fan calm down gary. [Post edited 30 Dec 2019 18:10]
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| Birch’s programme notes on 18:11 - Dec 30 with 1978 views | Blue_Blood |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:57 - Dec 30 by jasper_T |
We can't afford the James' and McBurnies any more. In their case fretting over academy rating is missing the forest for the trees - we're not in a position to spend over £100k each on young prospects and have them spend a few years in the reserves. We're going to have to make do with what's available while we're a mid-level Championship side in the far west. That's already the case in the current u23s side, which features a trio of local 17 year olds in the back 4 pretty regularly now.
The Shepherds and Sheehans (who Laudrup liked a lot and was unlucky with injuries) are what we'll have to work with. If they're not good enough might as well scrap the academy altogether. |
I do think you're underestimating how quickly football is advancing in this country. EPPP has had negative affects but it's also had positive affects and in my opinion English (and Welsh) are progressing at a rate that is unprecedented in this country.
You can see this in this years premier league where even some of the biggest teams (with unlimited resources) are shunning the transfer market and developing their own.
This is something Cardiff and Swansea can now replicate, and to be fair you already are, so why would you sacrifice that when it is currently funding itself? | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:21 - Dec 30 with 1950 views | theloneranger |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:57 - Dec 30 by jasper_T |
We can't afford the James' and McBurnies any more. In their case fretting over academy rating is missing the forest for the trees - we're not in a position to spend over £100k each on young prospects and have them spend a few years in the reserves. We're going to have to make do with what's available while we're a mid-level Championship side in the far west. That's already the case in the current u23s side, which features a trio of local 17 year olds in the back 4 pretty regularly now.
The Shepherds and Sheehans (who Laudrup liked a lot and was unlucky with injuries) are what we'll have to work with. If they're not good enough might as well scrap the academy altogether. |
Sheps was highly thought of at C*rdiff, and they were really p1ssed off when he signed for us as a 16 year old.
He seems to be doing well at Forest Green Rovers, and has still got a long time left in football. |  |
| Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! 😎 |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 18:23 - Dec 30 with 1940 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:06 - Dec 30 by SwanDownUnder |
oh sorry i didn't realise we were living in a fantasy land.
your a premier league fan calm down gary. [Post edited 30 Dec 2019 18:10]
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You’re **
Premier League fan. Righteyo bright fella. |  | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:27 - Dec 30 with 1921 views | longlostjack |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:11 - Dec 30 by Blue_Blood |
I do think you're underestimating how quickly football is advancing in this country. EPPP has had negative affects but it's also had positive affects and in my opinion English (and Welsh) are progressing at a rate that is unprecedented in this country.
You can see this in this years premier league where even some of the biggest teams (with unlimited resources) are shunning the transfer market and developing their own.
This is something Cardiff and Swansea can now replicate, and to be fair you already are, so why would you sacrifice that when it is currently funding itself? |
Because there’s a Balance Sheet and Cash Flow forecast that need to look as pretty as possible as quickly as possible so that the Yanks can sell up at the best price. |  |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 18:40 - Dec 30 with 1895 views | Gowerjack |
| Birch’s programme notes on 11:29 - Dec 30 by theloneranger |
The main thing will be, is that they have a va!uable piece of land to sell off in Landore. |
It won't be that valuable |  |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 18:43 - Dec 30 with 1893 views | Gowerjack |
| Birch’s programme notes on 12:32 - Dec 30 by exiledclaseboy |
Hadn’t realised they’ve not been updated. Will be sorted. |
Which ain't very good
With the greatest respect
Not very good at all | |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 18:47 - Dec 30 with 1878 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:43 - Dec 30 by Gowerjack |
Which ain't very good
With the greatest respect
Not very good at all |
I am suitably chastised. |  |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 18:51 - Dec 30 with 1872 views | SwanDownUnder |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:43 - Dec 30 by Gowerjack |
Which ain't very good
With the greatest respect
Not very good at all |
didn't realise the club had been taken over, anyway Liverpool? | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 19:28 - Dec 30 with 1822 views | jasper_T |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:11 - Dec 30 by Blue_Blood |
I do think you're underestimating how quickly football is advancing in this country. EPPP has had negative affects but it's also had positive affects and in my opinion English (and Welsh) are progressing at a rate that is unprecedented in this country.
You can see this in this years premier league where even some of the biggest teams (with unlimited resources) are shunning the transfer market and developing their own.
This is something Cardiff and Swansea can now replicate, and to be fair you already are, so why would you sacrifice that when it is currently funding itself? |
Is this the point in the conversation when people start using "academy" and "category 1 academy" interchangeably? I see it is.
The EPPP has had positive effects in improving academy standards and domestic player development, but the top level of those standards are not within reach of every football club. The tiered system exists to provide the most benefit to the richest clubs, and neither we nor Cardiff are that at the moment.
"It's currently funding itself" is a deceptive argument when the football club as a whole is not funding itself, and we would still be producing players with Cat 2/3, with far less risk and need to sell to continually balance the books. Major cutbacks have already taken place - many staff have gone, and there are fewer players on the books. Our u23s starting 11s are 80% local now, when they were ~30% local during our successful period from which the recent graduates emerged. "It's currently" not done anything, this is not the academy structure that bought and sold Oli and Dan James, even if the Cat 1 label is for now the same. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 19:30 - Dec 30 with 1813 views | jasper_T |
| Birch’s programme notes on 18:21 - Dec 30 by theloneranger |
Sheps was highly thought of at C*rdiff, and they were really p1ssed off when he signed for us as a 16 year old.
He seems to be doing well at Forest Green Rovers, and has still got a long time left in football. |
I thought he'd been released by them before we snapped him up. I had high hopes for him once upon a time. Debut in that Oxford game didn't go well. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 19:30 - Dec 30 with 1812 views | perplex |
| Birch’s programme notes on 09:12 - Dec 30 by Fireboy2 |
Our owners dont care what league we end up in, all they are bothered about is not putting any money into the club. |
And taking what ever they can. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 19:31 - Dec 30 with 1806 views | Dr_Winston |
The debate is quite ironic considering it's not all that long ago that people were wondering why we needed two sites for training and whether it would be more cost effective in the long term to combine them in one.
Did we build two facilities because we needed to or because certain people fancied making a few extra bob on the building contracts? |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 20:02 - Dec 30 with 1753 views | dobjack2 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 19:28 - Dec 30 by jasper_T |
Is this the point in the conversation when people start using "academy" and "category 1 academy" interchangeably? I see it is.
The EPPP has had positive effects in improving academy standards and domestic player development, but the top level of those standards are not within reach of every football club. The tiered system exists to provide the most benefit to the richest clubs, and neither we nor Cardiff are that at the moment.
"It's currently funding itself" is a deceptive argument when the football club as a whole is not funding itself, and we would still be producing players with Cat 2/3, with far less risk and need to sell to continually balance the books. Major cutbacks have already taken place - many staff have gone, and there are fewer players on the books. Our u23s starting 11s are 80% local now, when they were ~30% local during our successful period from which the recent graduates emerged. "It's currently" not done anything, this is not the academy structure that bought and sold Oli and Dan James, even if the Cat 1 label is for now the same. |
By your post I’d guess that you wouldn’t be confident that our current set up will produce many first teamers at championship level as the cuts have already been made.
Would you say that it is now category 1 in name only? | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 20:13 - Dec 30 with 1730 views | Swanjaxs |
| Birch’s programme notes on 19:31 - Dec 30 by Dr_Winston |
The debate is quite ironic considering it's not all that long ago that people were wondering why we needed two sites for training and whether it would be more cost effective in the long term to combine them in one.
Did we build two facilities because we needed to or because certain people fancied making a few extra bob on the building contracts? |
Pigs and troughs spring to mind...
Rotten to the core. |  |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 21:03 - Dec 30 with 1652 views | londonlisa2001 |
Interesting thread.
My main take on this :
We spent 7 years in the premier league. If we downgrade the academy (and it’s an if, but one that’s been raised by the programme notes so is undoubtedly possible), what exactly do we have to show for the income in excess of half a BILLION pounds we earned during that time.
The stadium isn’t any bigger.
The team will consist of, let’s be honest, mid ranking championship players playing bang average football.
We have an inexperienced manager.
We won’t have a high ranking academy.
We won’t have state of the art training facilities that we own.
We haven’t a new stadium sponsor.
We have a mid level kit supplier and mid level sponsors.
We have attendances that are no better than we had in 2010/2011.
We have owners that are disconnected from the fan base and a supporters’ trust that have been left outside in the cold.
It seems to me that all we have to show for the substantial amount of time in the top earning league in the world is a few individuals driving around West Wales in better cars, unable to show their faces in the stadium.
It’s not much of a legacy is it. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 21:12 - Dec 30 with 1632 views | jasper_T |
| Birch’s programme notes on 20:02 - Dec 30 by dobjack2 |
By your post I’d guess that you wouldn’t be confident that our current set up will produce many first teamers at championship level as the cuts have already been made.
Would you say that it is now category 1 in name only? |
I think there are players there that can be brought through. I wouldn't be confident that we will produce £5/10/15m players for sale on a regular basis, enough for the academy to "pay for itself" in that sense, but there's a decent number of players who might push on and contribute if given the opportunity. There's always talent to be found in South Wales, as Fergie said.
Hard when we've got new senior signings not even making matchday squads, of course. At some other Championship clubs the likes of Jack Evans and Brandon Cooper might have had decent minutes by now, as the injury-crisis has allowed Ben Cabango to have.
Category 1 is a set of minimum standards which we are - as far as I'm aware - still meeting. But compared to many Cat 1 outfits we don't have the same volume of recruitment, recruitment spend, wage spend or size of squad any more. We don't take advantage of poaching rights and I'm not sure there's many here that would have been chased by bigger clubs ahead of their scholarship phase. It's become a difficult environment for our development sides to compete within. The u18s always had it tough but our u23s were very good for a few years, winning a league and cup double and consistently doing well in the Checkatrade against senior sides (or at least their b teams). The trend is definitely downwards, but these things do ebb and flow, no academy remains consistently good year on year. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 21:20 - Dec 30 with 1617 views | monmouth |
| Birch’s programme notes on 21:03 - Dec 30 by londonlisa2001 |
Interesting thread.
My main take on this :
We spent 7 years in the premier league. If we downgrade the academy (and it’s an if, but one that’s been raised by the programme notes so is undoubtedly possible), what exactly do we have to show for the income in excess of half a BILLION pounds we earned during that time.
The stadium isn’t any bigger.
The team will consist of, let’s be honest, mid ranking championship players playing bang average football.
We have an inexperienced manager.
We won’t have a high ranking academy.
We won’t have state of the art training facilities that we own.
We haven’t a new stadium sponsor.
We have a mid level kit supplier and mid level sponsors.
We have attendances that are no better than we had in 2010/2011.
We have owners that are disconnected from the fan base and a supporters’ trust that have been left outside in the cold.
It seems to me that all we have to show for the substantial amount of time in the top earning league in the world is a few individuals driving around West Wales in better cars, unable to show their faces in the stadium.
It’s not much of a legacy is it. |
It's actually tragic. but speaks volumes about the tuppeny ha'penny noddy nobodies that contemptuously chucked the club under a coach load of cash. |  |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 21:24 - Dec 30 with 1603 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 21:20 - Dec 30 by monmouth |
It's actually tragic. but speaks volumes about the tuppeny ha'penny noddy nobodies that contemptuously chucked the club under a coach load of cash. |
It’s the hubris. Not employing anyone that had experience of running a company that had £100m turnover. Thinking that it could be done without the necessary expertise.
Talk about a wasted opportunity, not for the ones that became multi millionaires on the back of it, of course, but for the city at large.
Unforgivable. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 21:33 - Dec 30 with 1579 views | Swanjaxs |
| Birch’s programme notes on 21:24 - Dec 30 by londonlisa2001 |
It’s the hubris. Not employing anyone that had experience of running a company that had £100m turnover. Thinking that it could be done without the necessary expertise.
Talk about a wasted opportunity, not for the ones that became multi millionaires on the back of it, of course, but for the city at large.
Unforgivable. |
Agree with all this.
I get the feeling that the next 18 months have the potential to be on a par with the dark days of the Petty fiasco ...
Not be dramatic, just the way I see it going.
Time for the Trust to get their shìt together 😎 | |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 21:42 - Dec 30 with 1553 views | thornabyswan |
| Birch’s programme notes on 21:24 - Dec 30 by londonlisa2001 |
It’s the hubris. Not employing anyone that had experience of running a company that had £100m turnover. Thinking that it could be done without the necessary expertise.
Talk about a wasted opportunity, not for the ones that became multi millionaires on the back of it, of course, but for the city at large.
Unforgivable. |
Just off topic slightly but do the Trust now receive detailed accounts.
Uxbridge contradicted what you said previously.
Just wanted some clarification please. [Post edited 30 Dec 2019 21:43]
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| Birch’s programme notes on 21:54 - Dec 30 with 1510 views | vetchonian |
| Birch’s programme notes on 21:03 - Dec 30 by londonlisa2001 |
Interesting thread.
My main take on this :
We spent 7 years in the premier league. If we downgrade the academy (and it’s an if, but one that’s been raised by the programme notes so is undoubtedly possible), what exactly do we have to show for the income in excess of half a BILLION pounds we earned during that time.
The stadium isn’t any bigger.
The team will consist of, let’s be honest, mid ranking championship players playing bang average football.
We have an inexperienced manager.
We won’t have a high ranking academy.
We won’t have state of the art training facilities that we own.
We haven’t a new stadium sponsor.
We have a mid level kit supplier and mid level sponsors.
We have attendances that are no better than we had in 2010/2011.
We have owners that are disconnected from the fan base and a supporters’ trust that have been left outside in the cold.
It seems to me that all we have to show for the substantial amount of time in the top earning league in the world is a few individuals driving around West Wales in better cars, unable to show their faces in the stadium.
It’s not much of a legacy is it. |
And rumour has it the stadium expansion was cancelled/delayed because Jaxx construction was not being considered as the main contractor | |
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