| Car PCPs 12:23 - Sep 12 with 6309 views | monmouth |
I know we've done all this loads on leasing, but have we done PCPs? I'm thinking about it as I still want a diesel but don't really want the risk on the 3 or 4 year value. There seem to be some decent guaranteed residuals and 0% offers out there at the moment on new shiny shinies.
Anyone got any advice on traps to avoid or how to get best value when dealing with the car sales sharks? Out of principle I'll be walking away from the first couple of bastards, whatever they offer. |  |
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| Car PCPs on 12:55 - Sep 12 with 4831 views | controversial_jack |
It's all i can say is, unless you keep renewing the cars, you have no equity after 3 years and still have the balance of the cars value to pay off. I did it once, never again. |  | | |
| Car PCPs on 12:59 - Sep 12 with 4829 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Car PCPs on 12:55 - Sep 12 by controversial_jack |
It's all i can say is, unless you keep renewing the cars, you have no equity after 3 years and still have the balance of the cars value to pay off. I did it once, never again. |
You don’t have the balance of the car’s value to pay off if you don’t renew. You can just hand it back. Obviously you then need to buy a car, but that’s because you’ve paid loads less over the time you’ve had it than you would have done on a standard HP. | | | |
| Car PCPs on 14:33 - Sep 12 with 4766 views | controversial_jack |
| Car PCPs on 12:59 - Sep 12 by londonlisa2001 |
You don’t have the balance of the car’s value to pay off if you don’t renew. You can just hand it back. Obviously you then need to buy a car, but that’s because you’ve paid loads less over the time you’ve had it than you would have done on a standard HP. |
Yes, But to get a similar car to the one you hand back would require a similar amount of money and there's no guarantee you will find one or one that you know has been fully serviced etc You would probably end up paying six years for a car and then have to start all over again when prices have gone up.
The appeal of a new car is great, but but if you want to own it, it's a 6 year commitment, and of course with any new car, the value drops considerably as soon as you drive it off the forecourt.I wouldn't touch these schemes with a barge pole, but each to their own | | | |
| Car PCPs on 15:13 - Sep 12 with 4730 views | monmouth |
Yes, I've always been very sceptical CJ, but the medium term depreciation risk is significant at the moment in my view. I agree you've got to save to replicate whatever deposit you put in ready for the next time, but even doing that, at this 0% and high balloon, it's a fair bit cheaper than an equivalent lease if you just hand it back at the end. | |
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| Car PCPs on 21:45 - Sep 12 with 4584 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Car PCPs on 14:33 - Sep 12 by controversial_jack |
Yes, But to get a similar car to the one you hand back would require a similar amount of money and there's no guarantee you will find one or one that you know has been fully serviced etc You would probably end up paying six years for a car and then have to start all over again when prices have gone up.
The appeal of a new car is great, but but if you want to own it, it's a 6 year commitment, and of course with any new car, the value drops considerably as soon as you drive it off the forecourt.I wouldn't touch these schemes with a barge pole, but each to their own |
It’s effectively, in my mind, like renting a car for 3 or 4 years and having a bit of a deposit towards your next rental.
It works if you like changing your car. Not if you don’t. | | | |
| Car PCPs on 21:55 - Sep 12 with 4570 views | monmouth |
| Car PCPs on 21:45 - Sep 12 by londonlisa2001 |
It’s effectively, in my mind, like renting a car for 3 or 4 years and having a bit of a deposit towards your next rental.
It works if you like changing your car. Not if you don’t. |
Or if you think emissions legislation/economics/technology might wreck your residuals. Renting with an option to purchase if things turn out better than expected.
Anyway, thanks both. After an initial skirmish with a dealership shark, I think I've managed to mangle the 'shiny toy, I want it' genie back into the bottle, at least for a while. I've reclaimed sanity (Bluey take note, it is possible), as I have a perfectly fine car that has a few years left in it it yet and has already been screwed by depreciation. [Post edited 12 Sep 2019 22:22]
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| Car PCPs on 21:56 - Sep 12 with 4568 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Car PCPs on 15:13 - Sep 12 by monmouth |
Yes, I've always been very sceptical CJ, but the medium term depreciation risk is significant at the moment in my view. I agree you've got to save to replicate whatever deposit you put in ready for the next time, but even doing that, at this 0% and high balloon, it's a fair bit cheaper than an equivalent lease if you just hand it back at the end. |
I’ve done it a few times Monnie.
I keep a car for between 3 and a half and four years. Long enough to do first MOT and to have c. 6 months or so after they do their end of warranty check (I’ve done it on the last two cars which were both BMWs so have a three year warranty - obviously much longer warranties come on other makes).
I quite like it. Partly because it’s just an amount each month. Sod all up front. And the interest rates are normally pretty good. Partly because a car when it gets to the point of needing stuff gets a bit pricey, and partly because I have no idea whatsoever about cars so like a new one so it doesn’t cost me anything over what I pay each month (I’d be unable otherwise to know if I was buying a complete dog). Interest is always much cheaper on a brand new car btw - they charge a higher APR on used.
The downside is if you want a car for a lot longer (certainly BMW only do up to 48 months). You also need to keep to whatever mileage you say you’ll do, otherwise the price per mile probably mounts up quite quickly. It doesn’t give you much of a deposit for the next one (they aim to get you about £1,500 -£2k according to the bloke at the garage I use). And, of course, if your financial circumstances change, you have to pay an amount over month that may become a real drain. It’s not until about 6-10 months (depending on contract length) before the end of the contract that you break even (in other words, the car value is higher than what you still owe) so handing it back before that probably results in a nasty payment. It’s a lot cheaper than HP because you don’t finance the balloon payment, and it’s also cheaper than leasing (from the examples I’ve seen) because you have a bit of a deposit (from the previous car) and also the interest rates tend to be lower.
Just my view though, I’m sure it doesn’t work for everyone. [Post edited 12 Sep 2019 21:56]
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| Car PCPs on 22:09 - Sep 12 with 4542 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Car PCPs on 21:56 - Sep 12 by londonlisa2001 |
I’ve done it a few times Monnie.
I keep a car for between 3 and a half and four years. Long enough to do first MOT and to have c. 6 months or so after they do their end of warranty check (I’ve done it on the last two cars which were both BMWs so have a three year warranty - obviously much longer warranties come on other makes).
I quite like it. Partly because it’s just an amount each month. Sod all up front. And the interest rates are normally pretty good. Partly because a car when it gets to the point of needing stuff gets a bit pricey, and partly because I have no idea whatsoever about cars so like a new one so it doesn’t cost me anything over what I pay each month (I’d be unable otherwise to know if I was buying a complete dog). Interest is always much cheaper on a brand new car btw - they charge a higher APR on used.
The downside is if you want a car for a lot longer (certainly BMW only do up to 48 months). You also need to keep to whatever mileage you say you’ll do, otherwise the price per mile probably mounts up quite quickly. It doesn’t give you much of a deposit for the next one (they aim to get you about £1,500 -£2k according to the bloke at the garage I use). And, of course, if your financial circumstances change, you have to pay an amount over month that may become a real drain. It’s not until about 6-10 months (depending on contract length) before the end of the contract that you break even (in other words, the car value is higher than what you still owe) so handing it back before that probably results in a nasty payment. It’s a lot cheaper than HP because you don’t finance the balloon payment, and it’s also cheaper than leasing (from the examples I’ve seen) because you have a bit of a deposit (from the previous car) and also the interest rates tend to be lower.
Just my view though, I’m sure it doesn’t work for everyone. [Post edited 12 Sep 2019 21:56]
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That’s pretty much exactly what I do and why. I need a car but have no interest in them, no idea how they work and little appetite to worry about repairing them and MoTs etc. So I pay an amount each month and always have enough equity for a deposit on a replacement every three or four years. Works well for me. Not BMWs though. I’m not ostentatious.  |  |
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| Car PCPs on 22:36 - Sep 12 with 4513 views | monmouth |
See, now you've said that Lisa, it's got me thinking again. Mine is just coming up to MoT and end warranty and would be a killer if, say, one of the turbos developed a problem. it's a BMW too, as was my local shark today, so a coincidence, although maybe not, maybe it's because I'm not from Clase, so have some taste... | |
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| Car PCPs on 22:48 - Sep 12 with 4502 views | lifelong |
Took my Golf to Motorpoint today, bought it there 7 years ago for £15k, they gave me £6k for it in exchange for a nearly new Astra turbo. |  | | |
| Car PCPs on 23:23 - Sep 12 with 4478 views | majorraglan |
We have two cars in the house. The “family” car was 12 months when I bought it outright, it had a couple of thousand miles on the clock and the residue of a 5 year warranty which was good news because I have had a couple of things go wrong with it. Purchasing it 12 months saved me about a third off the last price.
The wife’s car was purchased on a PCP, the finance was interest free and we got a good deal. We bought it through a relative who worked for Fords and by the time finance incentives were thrown in we got about a third off. We have obviously lost money on it over the last 3 years, but the PCP has been an easy way of buying the car. I am fast approaching the point where I need to decide whether to keep it or give it back. There’s enough equity for a deposit for another car, but I am erring on the side of caution with all this Brexit stuff going on and will probably buy it.
Finance rates on brand new cars are much lower than used cars, but you take a hit on depreciation | | | |
| Car PCPs on 03:28 - Sep 13 with 4424 views | Cooperman |
| Car PCPs on 22:36 - Sep 12 by monmouth |
See, now you've said that Lisa, it's got me thinking again. Mine is just coming up to MoT and end warranty and would be a killer if, say, one of the turbos developed a problem. it's a BMW too, as was my local shark today, so a coincidence, although maybe not, maybe it's because I'm not from Clase, so have some taste... |
I have been a long time advocate on here of lease but I think this concept is on borrowed time for me. I’m halfway through a 4 year / 60,000 mile term on an A6 which I can buy from Audi Finance at the end of the contract. The car has done 25k miles most of which has been up and down the M4 to London and back and I reckon I’ll get it for £16k after the four years. If it’s looked after correctly it will be good for 200,000 miles, as would your Beamer. Don’t ask me why I’ve had a change of heart, I just have.
I was in an E-Class cab on whilst on holiday. It was 3 years old and had done 800,000 km and was still on first engine and gearbox. It was the drivers second E-Class and he got rid of his last one when it tipped 1.7 million km. You will be very, very unlucky to suffer a major fault in the German engineered hardware. |  |
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| Car PCPs on 10:31 - Sep 13 with 4295 views | controversial_jack |
| Car PCPs on 03:28 - Sep 13 by Cooperman |
I have been a long time advocate on here of lease but I think this concept is on borrowed time for me. I’m halfway through a 4 year / 60,000 mile term on an A6 which I can buy from Audi Finance at the end of the contract. The car has done 25k miles most of which has been up and down the M4 to London and back and I reckon I’ll get it for £16k after the four years. If it’s looked after correctly it will be good for 200,000 miles, as would your Beamer. Don’t ask me why I’ve had a change of heart, I just have.
I was in an E-Class cab on whilst on holiday. It was 3 years old and had done 800,000 km and was still on first engine and gearbox. It was the drivers second E-Class and he got rid of his last one when it tipped 1.7 million km. You will be very, very unlucky to suffer a major fault in the German engineered hardware. |
I have a BMW and get faults all the time, and it's only done 115k, admittedly some are wear and tear, but there's is no magic formulae with cars, German or otherwise, it's down to luck i think | | | |
| Car PCPs on 10:48 - Sep 13 with 4285 views | Cooperman |
| Car PCPs on 10:31 - Sep 13 by controversial_jack |
I have a BMW and get faults all the time, and it's only done 115k, admittedly some are wear and tear, but there's is no magic formulae with cars, German or otherwise, it's down to luck i think |
Replacement of wear and tear items should not be considered as a fault.
Some of it is down to luck but that’s only a very small element and of course nothing lasts forever. The engineering specifications and durability requirements of different manufacturers vary widely and there is generally a strong correlation between spec and cost. How we maintain our vehicles also plays an important role in longevity. | |
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| Car PCPs on 11:58 - Sep 13 with 4264 views | controversial_jack |
| Car PCPs on 10:48 - Sep 13 by Cooperman |
Replacement of wear and tear items should not be considered as a fault.
Some of it is down to luck but that’s only a very small element and of course nothing lasts forever. The engineering specifications and durability requirements of different manufacturers vary widely and there is generally a strong correlation between spec and cost. How we maintain our vehicles also plays an important role in longevity. |
Depends when they wear out, and how much they cost to replace. Car parts are extortionate these days and lots of items cannot be easily replaced unless you buy the entire unit. The more expensive cars cost more to maintain - stating the obvious i know, but It's a balancing act, and there's no right or wrong option | | | |
| Car PCPs on 12:56 - Sep 13 with 4227 views | Neath_Jack |
I go through this dilemma every couple of years as well.
A couple of people who i work with, absolutely swear by it.
One of them, only this week picked up his brand new 5 series BMW, lovely looking etc, but he's paying just shy of £600 a month for it. Plus he had to give them nearly £3k when he handed his last 4 series in for it, due to excess mileage, but yet he still swears by it. All that money being spent and the car will never be his  |  |
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| Car PCPs on 13:50 - Sep 13 with 4200 views | lifelong |
| Car PCPs on 12:56 - Sep 13 by Neath_Jack |
I go through this dilemma every couple of years as well.
A couple of people who i work with, absolutely swear by it.
One of them, only this week picked up his brand new 5 series BMW, lovely looking etc, but he's paying just shy of £600 a month for it. Plus he had to give them nearly £3k when he handed his last 4 series in for it, due to excess mileage, but yet he still swears by it. All that money being spent and the car will never be his |
Must have got more money than sense. 😲 | | | |
| Car PCPs on 15:21 - Sep 13 with 4155 views | monmouth |
| Car PCPs on 03:28 - Sep 13 by Cooperman |
I have been a long time advocate on here of lease but I think this concept is on borrowed time for me. I’m halfway through a 4 year / 60,000 mile term on an A6 which I can buy from Audi Finance at the end of the contract. The car has done 25k miles most of which has been up and down the M4 to London and back and I reckon I’ll get it for £16k after the four years. If it’s looked after correctly it will be good for 200,000 miles, as would your Beamer. Don’t ask me why I’ve had a change of heart, I just have.
I was in an E-Class cab on whilst on holiday. It was 3 years old and had done 800,000 km and was still on first engine and gearbox. It was the drivers second E-Class and he got rid of his last one when it tipped 1.7 million km. You will be very, very unlucky to suffer a major fault in the German engineered hardware. |
Aye, I think the engine will outlast me.
It’s all the sensors, plastic hoses, and particularly the emissions kit on the big diesel that tends to be the issue with BMW. Plus the turbos can be ropey, but I’ve always warmed and cooled them, so I’m reasonably confident, touch wood. But, you could argue that even though the cost of putting that right might be horrendous, it’s still likely less than depreciation on a replacement. So I’m angling towards your (changed) point of view now. Keep it for another 4 years and sod it, see what happens. As long as I put aside the (now low) cash to match depreciation, I’d never be in a worse position if I change my mind. | |
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| Car PCPs on 16:25 - Sep 13 with 4132 views | MrSwerve |
| Car PCPs on 10:31 - Sep 13 by controversial_jack |
I have a BMW and get faults all the time, and it's only done 115k, admittedly some are wear and tear, but there's is no magic formulae with cars, German or otherwise, it's down to luck i think |
'Only' done 115k? |  |
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| Car PCPs on 16:29 - Sep 13 with 4130 views | Cooperman |
| Car PCPs on 16:25 - Sep 13 by MrSwerve |
'Only' done 115k? |
See my taxi comment above. | |
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| Car PCPs on 16:31 - Sep 13 with 4127 views | Cooperman |
| Car PCPs on 15:21 - Sep 13 by monmouth |
Aye, I think the engine will outlast me.
It’s all the sensors, plastic hoses, and particularly the emissions kit on the big diesel that tends to be the issue with BMW. Plus the turbos can be ropey, but I’ve always warmed and cooled them, so I’m reasonably confident, touch wood. But, you could argue that even though the cost of putting that right might be horrendous, it’s still likely less than depreciation on a replacement. So I’m angling towards your (changed) point of view now. Keep it for another 4 years and sod it, see what happens. As long as I put aside the (now low) cash to match depreciation, I’d never be in a worse position if I change my mind. |
Indeed. You will have money in the bank to repair something that will almost certainly not break during the timescales that you are talking about but will still be better off if the worst does happen. | |
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| Car PCPs on 18:14 - Sep 13 with 4085 views | rlw |
We just got a new x1 from sytner.
Very impressed with the service and only got it due to it being on a deal.
I think the question comes down to if your comfortable with not having a car as an asset.
We pay a similar amount on pcp than what our other car costs on HP which is a "worse" car.
Will never refinance the baloon, will likely not get equity in the car. Paid £10 extra per month to get 2k extra miles per year.
If you go with a brand that will retain its value and has a chance at equity then you can get some money towards the new car, but its unlikely.
The offset is upfront deposit and low (relative to HP) payments against a good warranty and a car that likely couldn't be afforded on HP.
The money saved vs equivalent car on HP more than covers the deposit.
You can get PCP on used cars too, but the APR is usually higher. A £20k used car on pcp from sinclair cost more than a brand new £40k from sytner as the apr was about 3x higher and the monthly payments are based on the sale price - minimum guaranteed resale price in x years time.
All in all we're happy, but I'm sure it won't work for everyone. | | | |
| Car PCPs on 18:47 - Sep 13 with 4060 views | monmouth |
| Car PCPs on 16:31 - Sep 13 by Cooperman |
Indeed. You will have money in the bank to repair something that will almost certainly not break during the timescales that you are talking about but will still be better off if the worst does happen. |
Done a back of an envelope. Thanks to Coops and everyone, this has been quite thought provoking. The figures are a bit eye watering. If I keep my current car (and the repairs would be bloody expensive, a headlight is 2k ffs), but:
Vs pcp on a replacement over 4 years I’d have to incur £21k on repairs to break even
Vs buying replacement outright over 4 years £I’d have to incur £17k on repairs to break even
That would be bloody unlucky, to say the least, and I guess you can get warranties for major failures from places like warranty wise anyway.
So financially I think there’s only one decision.
Problem is that the new model is so pretty and so shiny.....😆 | |
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| Car PCPs on 18:51 - Sep 13 with 4052 views | Neath_Jack |
| Car PCPs on 18:47 - Sep 13 by monmouth |
Done a back of an envelope. Thanks to Coops and everyone, this has been quite thought provoking. The figures are a bit eye watering. If I keep my current car (and the repairs would be bloody expensive, a headlight is 2k ffs), but:
Vs pcp on a replacement over 4 years I’d have to incur £21k on repairs to break even
Vs buying replacement outright over 4 years £I’d have to incur £17k on repairs to break even
That would be bloody unlucky, to say the least, and I guess you can get warranties for major failures from places like warranty wise anyway.
So financially I think there’s only one decision.
Problem is that the new model is so pretty and so shiny.....😆 |
Why are you getting so hung up about repairs?
Have you had bad luck with cars previously? | |
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| Car PCPs on 19:09 - Sep 13 with 4038 views | dickythorpe |
It's good advice on here as always. |  | | |
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