| Independence march merthyr 08:15 - Sep 8 with 32904 views | CwmafanJack |
Did anyone make the trip? Great speakers eddie butler and neville southall. Thousands in attendance with thousands more not being able to make it as trains where full coming from cardiff. Also busts the myth that theres no support for independence in the south. Well done all. Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 21:59 - Sep 9 with 1428 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:51 - Sep 9 by Wingstandwood |
Most sensible people with non-rocket scientist common sense and awareness now see devolution as a complete and utter load of Cardiff centric sh1te come regionally biased obscenity.... I would think many would now naturally assume that total independence would be far, far worse.
Approx 105,000 Swansea/SW Wales people signed a SWEP petition to save a local hospitals children's service and OUR Swansea delegation, MY Swansea delegation, YOUR Swansea delegation was blatantly made (punishment? spite? petty, mindedness?) to stand outside the WAG-Cardiff in the freezing cold.
A leading South Wales cancer clinician resigned in protest because of lack of funding from Welsh Assembly politicians that were far more concerned about white-elephant vanity projects in Cardiff Bay.
And only a year or two after that (from horses mouth stuff) another cancer specialist did not want any gate-crashing flash photography seeking WAG politician impostors in attendance to steal the praise and well deserved efforts from others at an opening event. So much for devolved government being held in any high esteem. In fact the only effective opposition came from the leading cancer clinician, SWEP Sue Bailey, Dai Lloyd and local campaigners. Stuff Welsh independence up your f#cking arse! |
So .....you are blaming a future indy wales for something that has happened whilst wales is part of the fecking union. Ffs mun.
If devolution is shite, lets have a proper indy nation to sort it out. Thats normal.
No country that left the British Empire has ever asked to come back, thats worth noting.
Unless you believe that welsh people are uniquely unable to run their own affairs ? |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:08 - Sep 9 with 1418 views | Wingstandwood |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:59 - Sep 9 by Kilkennyjack |
So .....you are blaming a future indy wales for something that has happened whilst wales is part of the fecking union. Ffs mun.
If devolution is shite, lets have a proper indy nation to sort it out. Thats normal.
No country that left the British Empire has ever asked to come back, thats worth noting.
Unless you believe that welsh people are uniquely unable to run their own affairs ? |
Yep, give the same bunch of failed, self serving, regional partitionalist politicians and parties tax raising and borrow power(s) so they can shove even more money into Cardiff whilst keeping continuance of "keep the rest poor, keep em voting for us" policies.
No thank you! |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:08 - Sep 9 with 1416 views | raynor94 |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:59 - Sep 9 by Kilkennyjack |
So .....you are blaming a future indy wales for something that has happened whilst wales is part of the fecking union. Ffs mun.
If devolution is shite, lets have a proper indy nation to sort it out. Thats normal.
No country that left the British Empire has ever asked to come back, thats worth noting.
Unless you believe that welsh people are uniquely unable to run their own affairs ? |
Mark Drakeford, Adam Price and Paul Davies, I wouldn't trust them to run a sweet shop. The sooner that Cabal the assembly is abolished the better |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:10 - Sep 9 with 1412 views | rockinjk |
Adam Price impresses me
The gulf in class between him and Wayals is beyond comprehension
It’s no surprise to me that this is now something being spoken of | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:19 - Sep 9 with 1395 views | union_jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:08 - Sep 9 by Wingstandwood |
Yep, give the same bunch of failed, self serving, regional partitionalist politicians and parties tax raising and borrow power(s) so they can shove even more money into Cardiff whilst keeping continuance of "keep the rest poor, keep em voting for us" policies.
No thank you! |
Excellent posts. ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
Anyone thinking independence would all of a suddenly give us a better caliber politician who will look at all of Wales instead of just further sinking money into Cardiff when there is likely to be (a lot) less money floating about is just not wanting to see it. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:29 - Sep 9 with 1389 views | rockinjk |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:19 - Sep 9 by union_jack |
Excellent posts. ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
Anyone thinking independence would all of a suddenly give us a better caliber politician who will look at all of Wales instead of just further sinking money into Cardiff when there is likely to be (a lot) less money floating about is just not wanting to see it. |
The WAG is an embarrassment to Wales
It should be scrapped | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:33 - Sep 9 with 1383 views | Wingstandwood |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:19 - Sep 9 by union_jack |
Excellent posts. ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
Anyone thinking independence would all of a suddenly give us a better caliber politician who will look at all of Wales instead of just further sinking money into Cardiff when there is likely to be (a lot) less money floating about is just not wanting to see it. |
Doctor Dai Lloyd A.M has at times been absolutely superb opposition in the WAG, he is the only Plaid Cymru politician I'd ever vote for.
The rest of them are a shower of absolute sh1te. To think it took the resignation strategy of Swansea/SW Wales regional head of cancer services to finally get desperately required money into Singleton Hospital. Where was the opposition? And where the f#ck was Labour who had been in government for a considerable amount of years?
Praise to Susan Bailey who was superb, a credit to her then (journalism) profession with campaigning beyond the call of duty. Praise be to local campaigners i.e. true 'community socialists' also. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:38 - Sep 9 with 1372 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:29 - Sep 9 by rockinjk |
The WAG is an embarrassment to Wales
It should be scrapped |
Yet ..... WAG has never humbled the UK on the world stage like Brexit has.
The world is laughing at our snowflake post war generation that has lost all its influence in Europe.
Westminster is an embarrassment to the UK.
It should be scrapped. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:43 - Sep 9 with 1358 views | union_jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:38 - Sep 9 by Kilkennyjack |
Yet ..... WAG has never humbled the UK on the world stage like Brexit has.
The world is laughing at our snowflake post war generation that has lost all its influence in Europe.
Westminster is an embarrassment to the UK.
It should be scrapped. |
That’s because Wales in isolation isn’t on the world stage!
WG politicians are a disaster though. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 23:10 - Sep 9 with 1327 views | Ebo |
| Independence march merthyr on 18:22 - Sep 9 by AguycalledJack |
I have read this thread with interest. A good debate being had. I do however have some questions (in no particular order) :
1. If wales gained independence where would the money come from?
2. If wales gained independence what would our currency be?
3. If wales gained independence would the people of wales then want to join the EU having already voted to leave? Would this mean another referendum / vote?
4. If the people of wales did want to join the EU how long would it be until we were up to EU standards?
5. When wales reached EU Standards would the EU accept us anyway given the leave vote?
6. Who would own the Severn crossings as you can bet the charges would be reimplemented?
7. Would there be any effect on trade with England?
8. Would there be a hard boarder?
Thanks in advance. |
I think the answers to your questions are here
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/yescymru/pages/26/attachments/original/155 |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 23:15 - Sep 9 with 1314 views | blaenaugwentjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:16 - Sep 9 by Brynmill_Jack |
Says the man possibly born in England. (Depending on what year obviously) |
The point you so ignorantly missing is this is anti Westminster not anti English. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 23:20 - Sep 9 with 1307 views | blaenaugwentjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:10 - Sep 9 by rockinjk |
Adam Price impresses me
The gulf in class between him and Wayals is beyond comprehension
It’s no surprise to me that this is now something being spoken of |
He does have a vision and intellect that others struggle to match, he is also a great orator. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 05:52 - Sep 10 with 1261 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 23:15 - Sep 9 by blaenaugwentjack |
The point you so ignorantly missing is this is anti Westminster not anti English. |
And I’m anti Cardiff bay. F*ck Welsh Nationalism full stop. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Independence march merthyr on 07:38 - Sep 10 with 1225 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 05:52 - Sep 10 by Brynmill_Jack |
And I’m anti Cardiff bay. F*ck Welsh Nationalism full stop. |
Its the will of the people though, we will do the best deal ever and WEXIT.
In 10 years time you will be forced the speak only Welsh and the TV will only show S4C.
Our President will be Colin Jackson.
Its going to beat the feck out of behaving like a child as part of the dead uk.
Feck Team GB.
ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ðŸ‡ªðŸ‡º | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 07:53 - Sep 10 with 1220 views | Lohengrin |
| Independence march merthyr on 23:20 - Sep 9 by blaenaugwentjack |
He does have a vision and intellect that others struggle to match, he is also a great orator. |
I’ve seen him speak a few times and he’s not bad at all, but ‘great orator?’ Behave, mun.  |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Independence march merthyr on 08:13 - Sep 10 with 1209 views | raynor94 |
| Independence march merthyr on 23:20 - Sep 9 by blaenaugwentjack |
He does have a vision and intellect that others struggle to match, he is also a great orator. |
So why did he step down from Parliament? | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:19 - Sep 10 with 1185 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 23:20 - Sep 9 by blaenaugwentjack |
He does have a vision and intellect that others struggle to match, he is also a great orator. |
Throughout history there have been great orators with a vision but why do so many of them turn out to be lunatics and dictators?
PS, I've heard Price speak, he's not all that though he is a better orator than Bojo, Corbyn, May, Gove, Drakeford.....Saying that Strurgeon is a good talker, better than Price in my book but she has also been caught being less than 100% truthful. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:22 - Sep 10 with 1182 views | Ebo |
| Independence march merthyr on 22:19 - Sep 9 by union_jack |
Excellent posts. ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
Anyone thinking independence would all of a suddenly give us a better caliber politician who will look at all of Wales instead of just further sinking money into Cardiff when there is likely to be (a lot) less money floating about is just not wanting to see it. |
Then you have obviously paid no attention to AUOB and the Yes Cymru movement whatsoever. It's about ALL Wales. get that Swansea chip off your shoulder. | |
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| Independence march merthyr (n/t) on 09:24 - Sep 10 with 1177 views | LeonWasGod |
| Independence march merthyr on 08:13 - Sep 10 by raynor94 |
So why did he step down from Parliament? |
He won a Fulbright Scholarship to go and study in the States - Harvard. He did a Masters degree in something, can't remember what. [Post edited 10 Sep 2019 9:27]
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:27 - Sep 10 with 1173 views | Uxbridge |
| Independence march merthyr on 05:52 - Sep 10 by Brynmill_Jack |
And I’m anti Cardiff bay. F*ck Welsh Nationalism full stop. |
Out of interest, if Norn Iron and Scotland were to leave the union, which are both entirely plausible eventualities within the current political climate, do you see a union of England and Wales being a long-term prospect?
Have to say, if both go, I really struggle to see a scenario where that happens. The resurgence of English nationalism alone which we've seen in recent years may be reason enough why it won't. Must admit Wales splitting away in that scenario, probably joining the EU because, well, why on earth wouldn't we, looks a more positive prospect in many ways.
Not to say I have any time for Cardiff Bay at all. The standard of representation there is awful. The standard of our representation at parliament isn't much cop either mind. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:32 - Sep 10 with 1166 views | johnlangy |
Well said ebo. People should read that booklet in order to better understand the reality of what is happening at the moment. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:35 - Sep 10 with 1161 views | Uxbridge |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:22 - Sep 10 by Ebo |
Then you have obviously paid no attention to AUOB and the Yes Cymru movement whatsoever. It's about ALL Wales. get that Swansea chip off your shoulder. |
So was the Assembly referendum in the first place. Then we had the decision of the Welsh Office on where the Assembly would be cited. Then we had the next 20 years.
Frankly, the Assembly has failed large parts of Wales. Comparably speaking, Swansea has done better than most, which says a lot. I'd love to see a graph comparing Welsh Government funded projects across different regions of Wales, and I'd also like to see the proportion of projects in each area that have to rely on private funding or EU funding due to the failure of the Welsh Govt to do so.
Sadly one of the best reasons against Cardiff Bay gettting more powers is what they've done with those they've had in the last 20 years, and the way they've consolidated power and resources within a radius of about 15 miles. And I say that as someone very sympathetic to the AUOB movement. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:56 - Sep 10 with 1148 views | Ebo |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:32 - Sep 10 by johnlangy |
Well said ebo. People should read that booklet in order to better understand the reality of what is happening at the moment. |
That booklet is very open and and honest. The Movement is still young, astonishing when you think not too long ago it was 6 people in a room rising to a march of over 10k in Caernarfon. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:56 - Sep 10 with 1147 views | johnlangy |
| Independence march merthyr on 18:22 - Sep 9 by AguycalledJack |
I have read this thread with interest. A good debate being had. I do however have some questions (in no particular order) :
1. If wales gained independence where would the money come from?
2. If wales gained independence what would our currency be?
3. If wales gained independence would the people of wales then want to join the EU having already voted to leave? Would this mean another referendum / vote?
4. If the people of wales did want to join the EU how long would it be until we were up to EU standards?
5. When wales reached EU Standards would the EU accept us anyway given the leave vote?
6. Who would own the Severn crossings as you can bet the charges would be reimplemented?
7. Would there be any effect on trade with England?
8. Would there be a hard boarder?
Thanks in advance. |
This was catulus' response.
1 who knows
2 who knows but if we joined the EU it'd be the euro
3 I doubt the Senedd would give us a choice
4 nobody knows. We'd have to meet the Copenhagen criteria and it might take years
5 only the EU knows
6 Wales would probably have to buy the English share of the bridges if we wanted to reimpose levies, or the English might agree to joint ownership...who knows
7 Imagine a hard border with England, there could well be many problems, sepcially if England and the EU were still arguing over brexit. How would we export if we couldn't go through or over England?
8 I had a hard boarder once, ex boxer he was. In other words, who knows.
All these questions have been asked before but no one can answer them, either because they can't or they don't want to. I certainly don't know apart from 2 or 4 where we all know if we did join the EU it would mean we had reached the Copenhagen criteria and it would be the euro.
My response.
1. According to the UK government Welsh tax receipts each year are about £25 billion. The correct figure is probably around £30 billion accounting for Welsh Tax registered as English tax.
2. Who knows. Probably a Welsh pound having parity with sterling initially, which is what Scotland currently has.
3. If we were to discuss rejoining the EU there would have to be a referendum.
4. It depends how long it is until that time. If it was, say, 5 years down the line the vast majority of EU regs would still be in place because the UK will probably agree regulatory alignment while trade negotiations were taking place. That will last for years
5. Why would an Independent Wales work toward alignment with the EU if there was no agreement that we could re-join ?
6. Every time a UK infrastructure project happens Wales has 5% of the cost of that project allocated as Welsh expenditure. Which means, in law, that Wales owns 5% of both bridges. Which may not seem very much but we also 'own' 5 % of the Humber bridge and 5% of the Forth bridge etc. We also 'own' 5% of the Houses of Parliament as another example. So we'd agree a swap. Essentially you have this, we'll have that.
7. We'd negotiate a Trade agreement while agreeing to maintain standards during that period i'd imagine. Just like the UK/EU negotiations will happen.
8. Not sure what would happen there. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:58 - Sep 10 with 1147 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:35 - Sep 10 by Uxbridge |
So was the Assembly referendum in the first place. Then we had the decision of the Welsh Office on where the Assembly would be cited. Then we had the next 20 years.
Frankly, the Assembly has failed large parts of Wales. Comparably speaking, Swansea has done better than most, which says a lot. I'd love to see a graph comparing Welsh Government funded projects across different regions of Wales, and I'd also like to see the proportion of projects in each area that have to rely on private funding or EU funding due to the failure of the Welsh Govt to do so.
Sadly one of the best reasons against Cardiff Bay gettting more powers is what they've done with those they've had in the last 20 years, and the way they've consolidated power and resources within a radius of about 15 miles. And I say that as someone very sympathetic to the AUOB movement. |
For anyone who believes Indy will be good for Wales and ignores the South East centric politics in the Senedd, look at this person's opinion.....
https://jacothenorth.net/blog/poor-old-swansea-victim-of-devolution-and-cardiff-
It's the same in England, the politicians have looked after the area close to their political home. | |
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