| FFP - why only us? 08:14 - May 6 with 10314 views | Northolt_Rs |
Watching Birmingham and Derby avoid any real FFP impact - the first by getting a meaningless points deduction and the latter by “selling their ground to the owner” - why are we the only club to be actually crippled by FFP ? Doesn’t seem particularly fair to me.
We must have the worst lawyers in the world working for us.
I wonder if Hoos and co. are complaining to the EFL about our clearly unfair treatment compared to others? If not, why not? |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| FFP - why only us? on 13:12 - May 7 with 1559 views | TGRRRSSS |
| FFP - why only us? on 09:54 - May 7 by daveB |
It's not comparable as the rules were different, there really is no point crying about that, it happened we have to get on with it just as other teams had to get on with it when we got away with the Faurlin transfer.
It's not the leagues fault that Birmingham have had a good season and losing 9 points didn't relegate them, if the punishment you want is for a team to be relegated then they'll struggle to fill the league next season
Overall I don't think FFP rules are workable but thats the same for everyone |
It is workable if it suits them
Glad one of AV and Leeds cannot go up so sure;y they are in for it next season, unless Villa sell Grealish for 40m odd for example.
Leeds... who knows...
IN essence under Harvey's rules if QPR committed a murder in 1960 when DP was allowed he'd have hanged us in 2018 and allowed Birmingham off for the same offence and probably let them off on licence.
Basically that's what he and his cronies have done.
I hate Harvey can't we hang him?
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| FFP - why only us? on 13:15 - May 7 with 1554 views | LunarJetman |
| FFP - why only us? on 13:04 - May 7 by TGRRRSSS |
Birmingham were never going to get into the Play offs less still even win them if they had, they were giving a punishment which on paper looked harsh in reality it was a cop out.
Ours was based in part on the past and in part on our wealth (the owners) had they done that to Birmingham they'd be put in immediate administration anyway and EFL could not get the money.
We were went for very harshly and I am not sure our lawyers even did half the job so many on here are claiming.
Birmingham lost less relatively but under much less punitive measures.
We aren't whiter than white and nobody is saying we were, but if Birmingham and others got a far cleaner towel to clean themselves up with in that respect. |
We're really got to get away from this "they've only targeted us because of our owners/the past" nonsense. It makes you sound bitter and paranoid.
As has already been noted, had they used the new rules we'd have started the season with -12 points and would have been relegated.
Would you have preferred that? |  | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 13:19 - May 7 with 1539 views | TGRRRSSS |
It was the past though wasn't it, and if not for our owners wealth why didn't others get such a fine?
Brum got given a fine that looks harsh on paper but in reality was a white wash.
Not paranoid, a fact.
Otherwise why don't we start ignoring it now like others already are. or "rent" Loftus Road to owners for however much per year or whatever a clever lawyer can use as a loophole, like Derby | | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 13:31 - May 7 with 1515 views | daveB |
| FFP - why only us? on 12:22 - May 7 by CamberleyR |
Bournemouth had a bloody good go at matching us though, they lost not far shy of £40m in winning the Championship in 2014/15 and this being on top of a £10m loss the previous season when the rules were a permitted £6m loss a season. Their slap on the wrist was a paltry £7m fine. |
Thats still 30 million less than we lost |  | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 13:35 - May 7 with 1499 views | daveB |
| FFP - why only us? on 12:55 - May 7 by Ned_Kennedys |
Because it moved them from the heady heights of 14th in the table to a non-perilous 17th position. It has not affected their season at all.
To act as any deterrent the 9 points should've been held over to the beginning of next season.
It beggars belief that some are willing to back the EFL over anything to do with FFP based on their gross incompetence in all aspects.
[Post edited 7 May 2019 12:58]
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Problem is if they deduct from the following season and they get promoted or stay up by just a few points then the argument is why didn't they do it straight away. No easy answer really but any club losing 9 points is going to affect them and the idea is to act as a deterrent. Birmingham may have got off in your eyes but if they had been in the playoffs at the time those 9 points would have killed their season, EFL can't issue punishments based on what position you are in the league it needs to be a standard points deduction wherever you sit | | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 14:01 - May 7 with 1439 views | ridethewave |
| FFP - why only us? on 09:24 - May 6 by kingo |
The EFL or Shaun Harvey went after us for having the audacity of proving that he was wrong. We could have won the case in the courts, there is a legal principle called Lex Mitor which states you can not be punished with a ‘harsh’ law if that law has since been made less harsh. The EFL basically said if you decide to take it to court and prove us wrong we simply won’t give you any fixtures, in any division. We could have won the case but realistically wouldn’t have had a club. |
"The EFL basically said if you decide to take it to court and prove us wrong we simply won’t give you any fixtures"
I don't believe this can be accurate. If the EFL stated that, they'd be done for extortion clear as day. The law doesn't work like that. |  | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 14:20 - May 7 with 1410 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| FFP - why only us? on 12:55 - May 7 by Ned_Kennedys |
Because it moved them from the heady heights of 14th in the table to a non-perilous 17th position. It has not affected their season at all.
To act as any deterrent the 9 points should've been held over to the beginning of next season.
It beggars belief that some are willing to back the EFL over anything to do with FFP based on their gross incompetence in all aspects.
[Post edited 7 May 2019 12:58]
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I think that's a fair point about holding it over to the next season.
But then, what of Birmingham's flouting of FFP had got them promoted? Wouldn't we have wanted the 9 points deduction this season? |  |
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| FFP - why only us? on 15:39 - May 7 with 1356 views | kingo |
| FFP - why only us? on 14:01 - May 7 by ridethewave |
"The EFL basically said if you decide to take it to court and prove us wrong we simply won’t give you any fixtures"
I don't believe this can be accurate. If the EFL stated that, they'd be done for extortion clear as day. The law doesn't work like that. |
You will need to go back to the articles of the time, where we were being told to pay up a £63m fine, we challenged the EFL. Their own appointed Panel upheld their original ruling, which was not in the Courts but by an Independent Panel put together by them. We could have taken this to the Courts on sound legal principles but at the publicised risk of being expelled from the league. We had solicitors involved and we could have pushed on with the case in the courts but at the very real risk that we simply woulldn't have been given any fixtures. So the option was pay up or play outside the EFL. Unfortunately the EFL and the FA to a degree, act separately to the law and make their rulings and advise that is it play by our rules or not at all. Many rulings by FIFA, FA and EPL operate alongside the law, but not always within it. |  |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| FFP - why only us? on 19:47 - May 7 with 1296 views | Northolt_Rs |
| FFP - why only us? on 13:15 - May 7 by LunarJetman |
We're really got to get away from this "they've only targeted us because of our owners/the past" nonsense. It makes you sound bitter and paranoid.
As has already been noted, had they used the new rules we'd have started the season with -12 points and would have been relegated.
Would you have preferred that? |
That’s a tough question... Get relegated with a clean slate to rebuild or die a slow death over the years because we can’t develop the team by buying players etc.....which may ultimately result in being relegated and still with the FFP fine to pay each year. | |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| FFP - why only us? on 20:22 - May 7 with 1249 views | QPR_John |
| FFP - why only us? on 15:39 - May 7 by kingo |
You will need to go back to the articles of the time, where we were being told to pay up a £63m fine, we challenged the EFL. Their own appointed Panel upheld their original ruling, which was not in the Courts but by an Independent Panel put together by them. We could have taken this to the Courts on sound legal principles but at the publicised risk of being expelled from the league. We had solicitors involved and we could have pushed on with the case in the courts but at the very real risk that we simply woulldn't have been given any fixtures. So the option was pay up or play outside the EFL. Unfortunately the EFL and the FA to a degree, act separately to the law and make their rulings and advise that is it play by our rules or not at all. Many rulings by FIFA, FA and EPL operate alongside the law, but not always within it. |
How can any organisation operate outside of the law. |  | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 20:28 - May 7 with 1242 views | QPR_John |
| FFP - why only us? on 09:54 - May 7 by daveB |
It's not comparable as the rules were different, there really is no point crying about that, it happened we have to get on with it just as other teams had to get on with it when we got away with the Faurlin transfer.
It's not the leagues fault that Birmingham have had a good season and losing 9 points didn't relegate them, if the punishment you want is for a team to be relegated then they'll struggle to fill the league next season
Overall I don't think FFP rules are workable but thats the same for everyone |
"It's not the leagues fault that Birmingham have had a good season and losing 9 points didn't relegate them, "
Birmingham have not had a particularly good season. Only Millwall and Reading would have been relegated with a 9 point deduction. Even with our poor season we would not have been relegated [Post edited 7 May 2019 20:30]
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| FFP - why only us? on 21:01 - May 7 with 1203 views | daveB |
| FFP - why only us? on 20:28 - May 7 by QPR_John |
"It's not the leagues fault that Birmingham have had a good season and losing 9 points didn't relegate them, "
Birmingham have not had a particularly good season. Only Millwall and Reading would have been relegated with a 9 point deduction. Even with our poor season we would not have been relegated [Post edited 7 May 2019 20:30]
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they were doing pretty well around the playoffs until February, far better than anyone expected anyway
I just think the punishment is out there now, you know if you breach roughly how many points you will lose and if as a club you are confident that won't affect you then it's upto the club if it's worth the gamble.
Take 9 points off Birmingham might not seem a big thing, take 9 off any of the top 6 and it makes a massive impact on them so the idea is for it to be a deterrent for clubs overspending/cheating as we did in 2014 | | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 21:15 - May 7 with 1183 views | QPR_John |
| FFP - why only us? on 21:01 - May 7 by daveB |
they were doing pretty well around the playoffs until February, far better than anyone expected anyway
I just think the punishment is out there now, you know if you breach roughly how many points you will lose and if as a club you are confident that won't affect you then it's upto the club if it's worth the gamble.
Take 9 points off Birmingham might not seem a big thing, take 9 off any of the top 6 and it makes a massive impact on them so the idea is for it to be a deterrent for clubs overspending/cheating as we did in 2014 |
Most teams gamble financially to get into the top 6 and then only 50% get promoted. Possibly losing out artificially is just another gamble most would be prepared to take. Now relegation is a different thing all together. | | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 22:06 - May 7 with 1122 views | QPR_Jim |
| FFP - why only us? on 21:01 - May 7 by daveB |
they were doing pretty well around the playoffs until February, far better than anyone expected anyway
I just think the punishment is out there now, you know if you breach roughly how many points you will lose and if as a club you are confident that won't affect you then it's upto the club if it's worth the gamble.
Take 9 points off Birmingham might not seem a big thing, take 9 off any of the top 6 and it makes a massive impact on them so the idea is for it to be a deterrent for clubs overspending/cheating as we did in 2014 |
9 points off Wolves last season and they'd have still won the league. So really the moral of the story is to make sure you spend it well. |  | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 22:17 - May 7 with 1105 views | kingo |
| FFP - why only us? on 20:22 - May 7 by QPR_John |
How can any organisation operate outside of the law. |
I suggest you ask Sepp Blatter | |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| FFP - why only us? on 22:57 - May 7 with 1067 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| FFP - why only us? on 21:15 - May 7 by QPR_John |
Most teams gamble financially to get into the top 6 and then only 50% get promoted. Possibly losing out artificially is just another gamble most would be prepared to take. Now relegation is a different thing all together. |
Any club spending big and gambling is 100% going for promotion: 9 points is a small risk as it might put you back in the play offs or push you out of the play offs at worse: its not going to put you in relegation trouble. And if you DO miss promotion then you suck up the 9 points that season and go again the next season with the 'risk' of another 9 points... |  | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 07:46 - May 8 with 975 views | Northolt_Rs |
| FFP - why only us? on 22:57 - May 7 by Ned_Kennedys |
Any club spending big and gambling is 100% going for promotion: 9 points is a small risk as it might put you back in the play offs or push you out of the play offs at worse: its not going to put you in relegation trouble. And if you DO miss promotion then you suck up the 9 points that season and go again the next season with the 'risk' of another 9 points... |
Agreed - a 9 point deduction is no deterrent at all and that’s if you are actually found guilty of breaking the FFP rules. Clubs will just do ‘a Derby’ and scout round FFP by selling the clubs assets to the bloke who already owns the club. WTF? It’s only QPR who have been properly fu cked up by the EFL. | |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| FFP - why only us? on 08:33 - May 8 with 940 views | CiderwithRsie |
| FFP - why only us? on 20:22 - May 7 by QPR_John |
How can any organisation operate outside of the law. |
Football does all the time, due to the ability of the League to impose its own penalties.E.g:
Insolvent football clubs always pay their "football debts" in full before other creditors, which is a blatant breach of insolvency law where secured creditors and preferential creditors should be paid first. It means that outstanding transfer fees to other clubs get paid before the St John's Ambulance or local traders getting put out of business by bad debt.
They can do it because if anyone insisted on the law being applied the club would be expelled from the league and therefore going out of business, whereas if they accept it the club can continue in the league, so continue as a business and so pay something instead of nothing.
So long as the only business a club can operate is football and the FA and leagues have a monopoly they have more power than the law. It'd take, I dunno, an Act of Parliament putting the FA under control of someone else to stop it. | | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 09:47 - May 8 with 889 views | daveB |
| FFP - why only us? on 07:46 - May 8 by Northolt_Rs |
Agreed - a 9 point deduction is no deterrent at all and that’s if you are actually found guilty of breaking the FFP rules. Clubs will just do ‘a Derby’ and scout round FFP by selling the clubs assets to the bloke who already owns the club. WTF? It’s only QPR who have been properly fu cked up by the EFL. |
how many points do you think it should be then?
9 points seems a lot to me, take 9 off us in March and would we really have won another 2 games to keep us safe | | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 10:03 - May 8 with 870 views | PunteR |
| FFP - why only us? on 09:47 - May 8 by daveB |
how many points do you think it should be then?
9 points seems a lot to me, take 9 off us in March and would we really have won another 2 games to keep us safe |
I think a fine for the owners is adequate. Not 42 million though as was first banded about. Maybe a £60 fine or something.no? Ok £10 million(ridiculous money in football)
The thing with points deduction is its hitting the fans as well who have nothing to do with decision-making at a club. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| FFP - why only us? on 10:43 - May 8 with 845 views | WokingR |
| FFP - why only us? on 16:05 - May 6 by Ned_Kennedys |
Exactly: Derby have set a precedent that other clubs will surely follow. The EFL are truly winkpuffins of the highest order. |
WTF is a winkpuffin ? |  | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 11:18 - May 8 with 825 views | daveB |
| FFP - why only us? on 10:03 - May 8 by PunteR |
I think a fine for the owners is adequate. Not 42 million though as was first banded about. Maybe a £60 fine or something.no? Ok £10 million(ridiculous money in football)
The thing with points deduction is its hitting the fans as well who have nothing to do with decision-making at a club. |
would a 10 million fine stop you though? Probably worth it if going for promotion. The points this season might not have killed birmingham but would gave buggered anyone in the top 6 and maybe next season would relegate a team if the bottom 3 are even slightly less shit
I don't think the rules work that well but for punishment transfer embargo and points deduction seem to be the only power the efl really have to enforce these rules | | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 11:22 - May 8 with 817 views | peterlund_dk |
| FFP - why only us? on 22:17 - May 7 by kingo |
I suggest you ask Sepp Blatter |
Sepp Ciablatta?
... crap, wrong thread. | | | |
| FFP - why only us? on 11:28 - May 8 with 808 views | kingo |
| FFP - why only us? on 11:22 - May 8 by peterlund_dk |
Sepp Ciablatta?
... crap, wrong thread. |
He certainly made enough dough | |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| FFP - why only us? on 11:42 - May 8 with 786 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| FFP - why only us? on 10:43 - May 8 by WokingR |
WTF is a winkpuffin ? |
The first letter 'i' should be an 'a' but the swear filter prevented it. | | | |
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