| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 08:55 - Dec 13 with 3799 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Warren Barton should have got 6 years for mugging us in to believing he was a footballer.
As bad as John Christie saying he was a doctor. [Post edited 13 Dec 2016 9:00]
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 09:01 - Dec 13 with 3787 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 08:47 - Dec 13 by makaveli1882 |
Who the fark are you to ask any Rangers fans to consider their position? LOTR did not break the law, not sure they where even there, so why are you asking him/she to consider his position?
Everyone is allowed an opinion, just because you do not agree it does not mean you can any fan to consider there position. |
Who the fark are you to ask me who the fark are you? 
I'm asking him what sort of club does he want. I'm asking you the same question.
Up to you if you don't want to answer. |  |
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 09:20 - Dec 13 with 3755 views | makaveli1882 |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 09:01 - Dec 13 by isawqpratwcity |
Who the fark are you to ask me who the fark are you?
I'm asking him what sort of club does he want. I'm asking you the same question.
Up to you if you don't want to answer. |
You can actually sense the sexual frustrations through your typing.
No you was asking LOTR to consider his position.
I want a club where we play two up front and score goals and win a FA cup once in a while; where I can have a drink with my mates and not think about work like most fans - and NOT deal with keyboard warriors who are angry with their own lives |  | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 09:38 - Dec 13 with 3735 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 09:20 - Dec 13 by makaveli1882 |
You can actually sense the sexual frustrations through your typing.
No you was asking LOTR to consider his position.
I want a club where we play two up front and score goals and win a FA cup once in a while; where I can have a drink with my mates and not think about work like most fans - and NOT deal with keyboard warriors who are angry with their own lives |
Christ on a bike!
Yes, I asked LOTR to consider his position because he is trawling for support for his vicious mates as being harshly treated by the justice system. To me the much more important question is 'do we want thugs like that associated with the club?'
What is your position on that question, if that isn't too loaded with sexual innuendo for your febrile imagination? | |
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 14:37 - Dec 13 with 3610 views | BlackCrowe |
What a flipping depressing thread. Seems to be they all got what was deserved. All violence is deplorable of course, but kicking someone while they're on the ground is about as low and cowardly as you can get and the law recognises this in sentencing. |  |
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 22:49 - Dec 13 with 3420 views | TGRRRSSS |
A Punch is going to hurt you whether it's on South Africa Road at 2pm on a Saturday afternoon or Uxbridge Road on a Friday night.
Why does one guarantee you Porridge the other is unlikely to even be investigated properly? |  | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 23:28 - Dec 13 with 3390 views | DannyPaddox |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 09:38 - Dec 13 by isawqpratwcity |
Christ on a bike!
Yes, I asked LOTR to consider his position because he is trawling for support for his vicious mates as being harshly treated by the justice system. To me the much more important question is 'do we want thugs like that associated with the club?'
What is your position on that question, if that isn't too loaded with sexual innuendo for your febrile imagination? |
I don't know who LOTR is but if he's the Lord Of The Rings he's getting a right kicking over on the 'boring books' thread. |  | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 01:20 - Dec 14 with 3331 views | LOTR |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 09:38 - Dec 13 by isawqpratwcity |
Christ on a bike!
Yes, I asked LOTR to consider his position because he is trawling for support for his vicious mates as being harshly treated by the justice system. To me the much more important question is 'do we want thugs like that associated with the club?'
What is your position on that question, if that isn't too loaded with sexual innuendo for your febrile imagination? |
I hardly think i was trawling for support. I don't think i need to trawl for support, it's highly unlikely that anyone reading this message board works for the Court of Appeal. I just have a different viewpoint to you QPRCity, i know that it's hard for you to contemplate that some people might disagree with you, but this is a fact of life. Secondly, i wouldn't call any of them my mates. I went to school with one and have known the other 4 from QPR over the last 15 years or so
I think your question regarding my "position" is a joke. I don't have a magic wand and can suddenly make all of the undesirables disappear, much to your dismay. Even i agreed with your view point, what would it change? Would those who engage in football violence suddenly stop going or stop associating with our club because i said so?
I stand by my viewpoint, they were given overly harsh sentences because its was football related. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, i couldn't care less. What does my head in is people like you who are so quick to vilify when you don't actually know anything about the case, save for what you've read in the tabloid press.
You my friend are a buffoon of the highest order. | | | |
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 07:47 - Dec 14 with 3256 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 01:20 - Dec 14 by LOTR |
I hardly think i was trawling for support. I don't think i need to trawl for support, it's highly unlikely that anyone reading this message board works for the Court of Appeal. I just have a different viewpoint to you QPRCity, i know that it's hard for you to contemplate that some people might disagree with you, but this is a fact of life. Secondly, i wouldn't call any of them my mates. I went to school with one and have known the other 4 from QPR over the last 15 years or so
I think your question regarding my "position" is a joke. I don't have a magic wand and can suddenly make all of the undesirables disappear, much to your dismay. Even i agreed with your view point, what would it change? Would those who engage in football violence suddenly stop going or stop associating with our club because i said so?
I stand by my viewpoint, they were given overly harsh sentences because its was football related. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, i couldn't care less. What does my head in is people like you who are so quick to vilify when you don't actually know anything about the case, save for what you've read in the tabloid press.
You my friend are a buffoon of the highest order. |
Most were found guilty of violent disorder, which carrys a max term of 5 years**, so whatever your personnel feeling, you can not claim that they were harsh sentences.
This is why they have (IMO) no chance of appeal.
**
Sentencing guidelines are available on line.
If we still had a plastic pitch you could protest in spray paint  [Post edited 14 Dec 2016 7:57]
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 08:46 - Dec 14 with 3207 views | qprxtc |
Just think, If those blokes had chosen not to kick the crap out of each other this thread wouldn’t exist.
We’d all be winners. |  | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 09:03 - Dec 14 with 3192 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 01:20 - Dec 14 by LOTR |
I hardly think i was trawling for support. I don't think i need to trawl for support, it's highly unlikely that anyone reading this message board works for the Court of Appeal. I just have a different viewpoint to you QPRCity, i know that it's hard for you to contemplate that some people might disagree with you, but this is a fact of life. Secondly, i wouldn't call any of them my mates. I went to school with one and have known the other 4 from QPR over the last 15 years or so
I think your question regarding my "position" is a joke. I don't have a magic wand and can suddenly make all of the undesirables disappear, much to your dismay. Even i agreed with your view point, what would it change? Would those who engage in football violence suddenly stop going or stop associating with our club because i said so?
I stand by my viewpoint, they were given overly harsh sentences because its was football related. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, i couldn't care less. What does my head in is people like you who are so quick to vilify when you don't actually know anything about the case, save for what you've read in the tabloid press.
You my friend are a buffoon of the highest order. |
Ok, let's skip past the insults. You can call me isaw, if you wish.
Scroll back through the posts and you'll find one from 2Thomas2Bowles that indicates, with figures, that your mates seemed to have been given fairly middling sentences for their serious crimes. He went on to say in another post that they would be unlikely to get a reduction on appeal and that the bloke who got six years would stand a risk of having his sentence increased.
I don't know what judicial experience 2T2B has. But at least he has given some numbers to the argument that can be checked on. That is so much better than your empty contribution about pedos and rapists. You didn't question his figures.
But it really doesn't matter what I think of their sentences (I'm not hugely bothered myself, given that I think they're about right), my point is that I don't want these thugs associated with QPR.
Lifetime bans for your mates should be a no-brainer for the club. If some-one at SAR is doing assessment of the club's status on social media, I'm here, arguing that this is what I think it has to do. As are you. Feel free to state that you do want these blokes to be associated with QPR, if that is the case.
We all want the club to do this, or say that, or whatever to define who it is, and what it's goals and values are. Well, the QPR that I want wants nothing to do with that lot.
(Edit: grammar) [Post edited 14 Dec 2016 13:40]
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 13:30 - Dec 14 with 3077 views | Cliff |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 01:20 - Dec 14 by LOTR |
I hardly think i was trawling for support. I don't think i need to trawl for support, it's highly unlikely that anyone reading this message board works for the Court of Appeal. I just have a different viewpoint to you QPRCity, i know that it's hard for you to contemplate that some people might disagree with you, but this is a fact of life. Secondly, i wouldn't call any of them my mates. I went to school with one and have known the other 4 from QPR over the last 15 years or so
I think your question regarding my "position" is a joke. I don't have a magic wand and can suddenly make all of the undesirables disappear, much to your dismay. Even i agreed with your view point, what would it change? Would those who engage in football violence suddenly stop going or stop associating with our club because i said so?
I stand by my viewpoint, they were given overly harsh sentences because its was football related. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, i couldn't care less. What does my head in is people like you who are so quick to vilify when you don't actually know anything about the case, save for what you've read in the tabloid press.
You my friend are a buffoon of the highest order. |
Thought I'd throw in my thoughts on a couple of points.
1. I certainly don't think the sentences are too harsh, and hope the club follow up with longer bans than the courts imposed,
and
2. there's only one person on here that's resorting to calling people "moron" or "buffoon" and he's a "friend" of the thugs - surprise, surprise! |  | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 14:17 - Dec 14 with 3031 views | danehoop |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 01:20 - Dec 14 by LOTR |
I hardly think i was trawling for support. I don't think i need to trawl for support, it's highly unlikely that anyone reading this message board works for the Court of Appeal. I just have a different viewpoint to you QPRCity, i know that it's hard for you to contemplate that some people might disagree with you, but this is a fact of life. Secondly, i wouldn't call any of them my mates. I went to school with one and have known the other 4 from QPR over the last 15 years or so
I think your question regarding my "position" is a joke. I don't have a magic wand and can suddenly make all of the undesirables disappear, much to your dismay. Even i agreed with your view point, what would it change? Would those who engage in football violence suddenly stop going or stop associating with our club because i said so?
I stand by my viewpoint, they were given overly harsh sentences because its was football related. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, i couldn't care less. What does my head in is people like you who are so quick to vilify when you don't actually know anything about the case, save for what you've read in the tabloid press.
You my friend are a buffoon of the highest order. |
Except that by your knowledge of the individuals concerned who are your friends, you are hardly likely to be impartial about the fairness of their treatment or otherwise. Sorry, but little sympathy for any of them irrespective of who they support or who's mates they might be. |  |
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 14:51 - Dec 14 with 2995 views | Boston |
George Davis is innocent, ok. | |
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 15:15 - Dec 14 with 2963 views | kensalriser |
You is too old skool Bos.
Always thought best dressed chicken in town was by far the better graffito. |  |
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 16:09 - Dec 14 with 2925 views | Rangersw12 |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 09:03 - Dec 14 by isawqpratwcity |
Ok, let's skip past the insults. You can call me isaw, if you wish.
Scroll back through the posts and you'll find one from 2Thomas2Bowles that indicates, with figures, that your mates seemed to have been given fairly middling sentences for their serious crimes. He went on to say in another post that they would be unlikely to get a reduction on appeal and that the bloke who got six years would stand a risk of having his sentence increased.
I don't know what judicial experience 2T2B has. But at least he has given some numbers to the argument that can be checked on. That is so much better than your empty contribution about pedos and rapists. You didn't question his figures.
But it really doesn't matter what I think of their sentences (I'm not hugely bothered myself, given that I think they're about right), my point is that I don't want these thugs associated with QPR.
Lifetime bans for your mates should be a no-brainer for the club. If some-one at SAR is doing assessment of the club's status on social media, I'm here, arguing that this is what I think it has to do. As are you. Feel free to state that you do want these blokes to be associated with QPR, if that is the case.
We all want the club to do this, or say that, or whatever to define who it is, and what it's goals and values are. Well, the QPR that I want wants nothing to do with that lot.
(Edit: grammar) [Post edited 14 Dec 2016 13:40]
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Point is though if this happened on a Friday night in any town centre then they wouldn't of got those sentances
But because it's football related they had the book thrown at them which is harsh and unfair IMO | | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 17:03 - Dec 14 with 2876 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 16:09 - Dec 14 by Rangersw12 |
Point is though if this happened on a Friday night in any town centre then they wouldn't of got those sentances
But because it's football related they had the book thrown at them which is harsh and unfair IMO |
And that's the problem, they should get these sentances on the street, so it's the ones on the street that are too lenient, not that these are to harsh or unfair.
In fact this was on the street and not at a game.
Keep making excuses all you like they got the right punishment and it could have been a lot more. [Post edited 14 Dec 2016 17:07]
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 00:16 - Dec 15 with 2763 views | LOTR |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 09:03 - Dec 14 by isawqpratwcity |
Ok, let's skip past the insults. You can call me isaw, if you wish.
Scroll back through the posts and you'll find one from 2Thomas2Bowles that indicates, with figures, that your mates seemed to have been given fairly middling sentences for their serious crimes. He went on to say in another post that they would be unlikely to get a reduction on appeal and that the bloke who got six years would stand a risk of having his sentence increased.
I don't know what judicial experience 2T2B has. But at least he has given some numbers to the argument that can be checked on. That is so much better than your empty contribution about pedos and rapists. You didn't question his figures.
But it really doesn't matter what I think of their sentences (I'm not hugely bothered myself, given that I think they're about right), my point is that I don't want these thugs associated with QPR.
Lifetime bans for your mates should be a no-brainer for the club. If some-one at SAR is doing assessment of the club's status on social media, I'm here, arguing that this is what I think it has to do. As are you. Feel free to state that you do want these blokes to be associated with QPR, if that is the case.
We all want the club to do this, or say that, or whatever to define who it is, and what it's goals and values are. Well, the QPR that I want wants nothing to do with that lot.
(Edit: grammar) [Post edited 14 Dec 2016 13:40]
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You keep referring to them as mates of mine, they are lads i know through watching QPR. The same lads that followed us around the country when we were stuck in League 1. By using the term "mates" or "friends" you're attempting to undermine my argument by insinuating that i cannot be objective in my opinions regarding their sentences.
What you fail to understand is i have a different opinion to you. You keep putting your important points in italics, i'm not sure why but you seem to think this makes your point far more valid.
I happen to know far more about this case than you do, now of course you're going to play the mate card, and that's your prerogative but 18 months for violent conduct really is harsh if you know the facts of the case. Of course you'll jump up and down and scream that it's too lenient, and that they should have been given life or exiled to the colonies.
With regard to the bans by the club, i think being banned by the courts for 8 years is quite punishment enough. No doubt you'll be calling for life time bans, even for those given a non custodial sentences or the lad found not guilty. | | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 01:01 - Dec 15 with 2754 views | Brightonhoop |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 00:16 - Dec 15 by LOTR |
You keep referring to them as mates of mine, they are lads i know through watching QPR. The same lads that followed us around the country when we were stuck in League 1. By using the term "mates" or "friends" you're attempting to undermine my argument by insinuating that i cannot be objective in my opinions regarding their sentences.
What you fail to understand is i have a different opinion to you. You keep putting your important points in italics, i'm not sure why but you seem to think this makes your point far more valid.
I happen to know far more about this case than you do, now of course you're going to play the mate card, and that's your prerogative but 18 months for violent conduct really is harsh if you know the facts of the case. Of course you'll jump up and down and scream that it's too lenient, and that they should have been given life or exiled to the colonies.
With regard to the bans by the club, i think being banned by the courts for 8 years is quite punishment enough. No doubt you'll be calling for life time bans, even for those given a non custodial sentences or the lad found not guilty. |
Times have changed. If you have to fight over football these days the risks are far higher now than ever. Simple answer is dont do it, or do so away from the cameras and evidence, because you will go down for a long stretch.
Totally agree with you on other sentencing, which will hopefully also catch up. This has been coming since Heysel. Very simple answer is dont do it. The consequences are life changing.
And for knt who glassed someone and the other who kicked a fella on the floor in the head I hope they get raped repeatedley in the showers. |  | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 07:07 - Dec 15 with 2705 views | LadbrokeR |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 05:53 - Dec 12 by isawqpratwcity |
Because these thugs are associated with QPR. Yes, thugs. T-H-U-G-S. Got it? When the club's support base needs thugs dispensing serious violence, they will be able to show a proven aptitude. Until then, they can fukk off.
Are you denying the facts of the case? No, you're only arguing the sentence.
I've never met them. Why, do I need to meet them? If I did, would they tell me they didn't do it?
Incidentally, I seriously hope the club will be issuing bans. How do you feel about that? |
I know little about the details of this case and I would have thought none of us have seen the CPS papers. But I have question if someone goes to football week in and week out with a group of mates and doesn't get involved in any trouble but then on one day something happens. By this I mean they are out with a group of mates and approached by a group and and incident takes placeand maybe they're partly responsible a few drinks could prompt that. I am not getting into the level or type of retaliation and the comparable merits of sentences. This could on the wrong day be me and my mates. Just because the daily mail has used the term thugs and its spelt out capital letters on this thread that doesn't make it a fact. | | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 10:53 - Dec 15 with 2625 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 00:16 - Dec 15 by LOTR |
You keep referring to them as mates of mine, they are lads i know through watching QPR. The same lads that followed us around the country when we were stuck in League 1. By using the term "mates" or "friends" you're attempting to undermine my argument by insinuating that i cannot be objective in my opinions regarding their sentences.
What you fail to understand is i have a different opinion to you. You keep putting your important points in italics, i'm not sure why but you seem to think this makes your point far more valid.
I happen to know far more about this case than you do, now of course you're going to play the mate card, and that's your prerogative but 18 months for violent conduct really is harsh if you know the facts of the case. Of course you'll jump up and down and scream that it's too lenient, and that they should have been given life or exiled to the colonies.
With regard to the bans by the club, i think being banned by the courts for 8 years is quite punishment enough. No doubt you'll be calling for life time bans, even for those given a non custodial sentences or the lad found not guilty. |
"I went to school with one and have known the other 4 from QPR over the last 15 years or so"
That probably makes you mates. But, freedom of association and all that, you're entitled. Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas. You don't share the horror that most of us feel about what they did. What they were convicted of. Glassing. Kicking in the head. Knocking some-one unconscious. Boasting about it like it was neither illegal, nor repugnant.
"I happen to know far more about this case than you do, now of course you're going to play the mate card, and that's your prerogative but 18 months for violent conduct really is harsh if you know the facts of the case".
Well, I'm pretty sure that it was you that just played it there, but, mate card or not (or itk or not), do you know more than the bloke who sentenced them? All the evidence- and testimony-proven facts from the day, from their victims' injuries, from their criminal records, and the appropriate sentencing guidelines?
Club-imposed bans by definition are up to the club. There would have to be a widespread acceptance that the serious crimes deserve a lifetime ban. What kind of club shows any tolerance at all for that sort of shit? And a conviction and a non-custodial sentence is still just that: conviction and sentence. You don't have to welcome it back with open arms. The club has the right to consider it's own position beyond whatever bans imposed by the court.
There was some-one found not guilty? Fine. Why should I have a problem with that? Sort of undercuts your 'no justice for them' argument a bit, though. [Post edited 15 Dec 2016 10:55]
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 11:54 - Dec 15 with 2572 views | isawqpratwcity |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 07:07 - Dec 15 by LadbrokeR |
I know little about the details of this case and I would have thought none of us have seen the CPS papers. But I have question if someone goes to football week in and week out with a group of mates and doesn't get involved in any trouble but then on one day something happens. By this I mean they are out with a group of mates and approached by a group and and incident takes placeand maybe they're partly responsible a few drinks could prompt that. I am not getting into the level or type of retaliation and the comparable merits of sentences. This could on the wrong day be me and my mates. Just because the daily mail has used the term thugs and its spelt out capital letters on this thread that doesn't make it a fact. |
"This could on the wrong day be me and my mates."
Of course. You could have made an ill-advised comment about some-one's club and find yourself getting a very nasty beating.
Or are you saying that you could see you 'finding yourself' committing crimes like those in the report? That would be a candid admission. Why wouldn't you takes steps to avoid 'allowing yourself' to end up there? | |
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| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 12:12 - Dec 15 with 2548 views | themodfather |
wonder how long the knife man at forest hill station will get?
david haye glassed chisora and hit him with a camera tripod...sentence?? nuffink, earnt millions in the ring....
6yrs seems excessive , the qpr lot were outnumbered and stood, there's worse by bankers every friday evening around liverpool st cos it's "football" changes things. watch any of those "police reality" progs and you see worse in cab ranks and outside clubs and pubs and barely an arrest.
still we have a new badge so all's good. merry xmas. | | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 12:53 - Dec 15 with 2518 views | makaveli1882 |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 10:53 - Dec 15 by isawqpratwcity |
"I went to school with one and have known the other 4 from QPR over the last 15 years or so"
That probably makes you mates. But, freedom of association and all that, you're entitled. Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas. You don't share the horror that most of us feel about what they did. What they were convicted of. Glassing. Kicking in the head. Knocking some-one unconscious. Boasting about it like it was neither illegal, nor repugnant.
"I happen to know far more about this case than you do, now of course you're going to play the mate card, and that's your prerogative but 18 months for violent conduct really is harsh if you know the facts of the case".
Well, I'm pretty sure that it was you that just played it there, but, mate card or not (or itk or not), do you know more than the bloke who sentenced them? All the evidence- and testimony-proven facts from the day, from their victims' injuries, from their criminal records, and the appropriate sentencing guidelines?
Club-imposed bans by definition are up to the club. There would have to be a widespread acceptance that the serious crimes deserve a lifetime ban. What kind of club shows any tolerance at all for that sort of shit? And a conviction and a non-custodial sentence is still just that: conviction and sentence. You don't have to welcome it back with open arms. The club has the right to consider it's own position beyond whatever bans imposed by the court.
There was some-one found not guilty? Fine. Why should I have a problem with that? Sort of undercuts your 'no justice for them' argument a bit, though. [Post edited 15 Dec 2016 10:55]
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"I happen to know far more about this case than you do,
How do you know more? you are certainly not a lawyer or judge the way you present your cases....I'd rather my cousin Vinny
How do you know more? you certainly are not friends with any of the fans that went down, as you have called out plenty of people on here and made them to feel guilty for simply knowing someone or for previously going to school with someone .... Truth is if you sit in the Loft or go to away games you would have seen at least one off their faces over the last few years.
Can I ask you a genuine question do you actually go to football games? I am not trying to be rude just curious | | | |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 12:58 - Dec 15 with 2508 views | bob566 |
| QPR fan jailed for 6 years on 12:12 - Dec 15 by themodfather |
wonder how long the knife man at forest hill station will get?
david haye glassed chisora and hit him with a camera tripod...sentence?? nuffink, earnt millions in the ring....
6yrs seems excessive , the qpr lot were outnumbered and stood, there's worse by bankers every friday evening around liverpool st cos it's "football" changes things. watch any of those "police reality" progs and you see worse in cab ranks and outside clubs and pubs and barely an arrest.
still we have a new badge so all's good. merry xmas. |
but did they show remorse? We don't know. The dumb thing that these guys did was post it up on social media like it was some sort of badge of honour. That's what did them I'd wager.
The judge was probably thinking hey I should be giving you 3-4 years but you know what. Since you're posting it up on social media and are obviously quite proud of your loutish behaviour then i'll impose the full sentence. | | | |
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